A Tale of Two Games: ToR and WoW - Review!

[XOrionX]

This way of thinking is completely wrong.

 

SWTOR must compete with anything else that is currently available on the market.

 

WoW with 7 years of expansions and patches is currently on the market for the same $15 price tag per month.

 

Ergo, SWTOR must compete with WoW in its current state, not in its release state. Players will not tolerate waiting years for SWTOR to catch up to things that WoW already has right now.

 

That is just how things work.

 

However in my opinion I do not really think that ToR is behind wow in any way that is important to me, so im fine with ToR, its just a hold over game for 6-8 months until Guild Wars 2 comes out anyway.

 

 

I would like to propose that your type of thinking is wrong.

 

It would take hundreds of millions of dollars for a dev to come out with as much content as WoW has now. That is just way too much risk. No developer would ever attempt that without a guarantee on return of investment.

 

In fact, it is this exact mentality that will kill MMO's as you and I know them. Nothing will ever live up to your expectations, people will always complain. It's sad, but true.

 

 

Say hello to F2P!

Edited December 19, 2011 by XOrionX

[gambiitDNA]

I think the OP hit the nail on the head. If you are serious game player--TOR most likely will leave you feeling like you are stepping into a time machine, playing a game that would have felt fresh in 2005. Most serious gamers are a little disappointed that TOR hasn't delivered.

 

But we won't need to reviews to measure success. The game population/subscriptions at the six month point will be the true bellwether.

 

 

 

Yeah--pointless to compare this game to the most successful MMO. It is much more fair to compare TOR to all the games that have gone free to play. TOR and WoW are in different leagues.

 

 

 

This guy has it dead on--if we were in 2005--TOR would have a chance.

 

also, not everyone played WoW day and night...thus the "dullness" you speak of doesnt apply to everyone..

[Rouncer]

I played WoW for over 8 years and was very involved with their raiding community. My subscription for WoW ends tomorrow. SWTOR being one of the reasons why it is ending. After just one beta weekend I was more excited to play TOR then I had been to play anything in WoW since their most recent expansion came out.

 

I love the combat, I love the voice acting, I love that it's friggin Star Wars. Voice acting does get tedious for some of the side <kill three womp rat> quests but that's what a space bar is for and 60% of the time I like to sit back and watch the interactions. Ten percent of the time I am locked to the screen waiting to see how things will turn out. To me that's amazing considering I've barely paid any attention to any of the quest givers in WoW since they came out with their new map/quest system and I was a friggin lore master over there too.

 

I thought I would hate the lack of auto-attack but it makes the combat more interactive, each button press being a specific action. There are still little lags and hitches in the graphics for some of those attacks but overall I am really enjoying it and when you get a good combination rolling it just looks so damn good on the screen. I'd love to see some little changes, things like changing sundering strike (I'm playing a Juggernaut) into two strong hits instead of just the one so that it would flow better with the other attacks, but overall I am beyond impressed with how the combat is represented.

 

Things they still desperately need to work on in my opinion

- Auction House UI needs an overhaul.

- Need to add a "clique"/mouseover type option for dealing with the operation frames for healing purposes. Also for purposes of using things like Guard and Intercede as a tank.

- Guild page needs right click options.

- Servers need a grace period when you disconnect before throwing you back in a queue.

Dressing Room needs a lot of work and NEEDS to show weapons as well as armor.

- Macros would be nice

 

There are others but those are the main ones for me, there are certainly other things but overall my list is far far far smaller then the list I would have made for WoW when it first came out.

[yomanaaiton]

I never do but when it is Activision involved i actually just boycott the games because i know they would sell theire own mother if thwy could earn a cent on it.

 

Not even will buy diablo thanks to that

 

You do realize that EA games are the same as Activision, only worse? In fact, when Activision was still a normal GOOD game developer and not mostly a publisher and money hungry corporation, EA was ALREADY balls deep into sucking money out of gamers by releasing the same games every 6 months with slight updates.

 

Trust me when I say Activision are SAINTS when compared to EA.

[Rakashan]

I find it an interesting review. Accurate in some regards and then blind to it's own comments in others.

 

I agree with the assessment of Companions however I don't find that it detracts from the game in any way for me. So they're pets... They're old-style pets with a decent modicum of control at least.

 

Yeah, the game is strongly story-based. So why did you skip the cinematics to level? I didn't find this chocolate bar to be tasty because it focused on chocolate, not popcorn?

 

Auto-attack... Ok, I don't get the lack myself. I'm not playing a tank so I can't address the "build resources" issue. The characters I have played have all been about finding a rotation which does not include my basic strike anyway (save my starting BH who used it as filler to keep heat low before he could talent/spec).

 

Quests... The OP cites 4 quests from the game-which-shall-not-be-mentioned which are examples of excellent quests and happily ignores the fact that even in the newest expansion with fully revamped zones the *vast* majority of the quests are still kill, collect, explore, deliver.

 

 

And PvP... The monster under the bed. The OP has admitted to being involved in WoW in a number of competitive environments. This is not a bad thing but it is unclear to me whether or not it is a must-have for a game to succeed. WoW *is* failing in spite of their attempt to make PvP a balanced, competitive part of their game. Why? Because balancing all classes in PvP means that you have just spent and incredible amount of time and money making BF3 with different skins and you're ignoring the players who want involved and interesting raiding.

 

 

It's fair to compare the two games in terms of design. It's even fair to compare them in terms of available content with the understanding that one is just out of development and one has multiple major expansions... For me, a lot of the things that the OP considers lacking (PvP most notably and some of his other derision for aspects that don't suit his playstyle) are not things that I miss at all while things like the Companions and their mechanics suit me greatly.

 

Caveat Emptor, I guess, but I find this a breath of fresh air compared to WoW as it is right now and the things they've released about Pandaria. To each his own.

[Crash-X]

The long term survival of TOR is tied to new and frequent scenaristic content. Problem, stories have the worst design/coonsumption time ratios.

 

This is pretty much it. MMOs live and die by their updates.

[yomanaaiton]

Well even if TOR fails, you couldn't PAY me to go back to wow, and definitely not play a fpsmmo... not my cup of tea... Btw, blizz has been making a failing mmo for a few years now... FAILpandas on the way! I'm gonna laugh when the number one raiding guild in the world in a few years (if the game still has life) is led by a 12 year old barking out LEEEERRROOOYYY and MORE DOTS!

 

I see no logic in your post, just typical burned out WoW player that's sick of the game.

 

I haven't played WoW in 2 years either and I wouldn't go back to it, ever, but facts are facts.

[Varghjerta]

You do realize that EA games are the same as Activision, only worse? In fact, when Activision was still a normal GOOD game developer and not mostly a publisher and money hungry corporation, EA was ALREADY balls deep into sucking money out of gamers by releasing the same games every 6 months with slight updates.

 

Trust me when I say Activision are SAINTS when compared to EA.

 

Actually difference is that Bioware havent fumbled the ball yet so i do give them the benefit of doubt.

 

But

Blizzard on the other hand.........................

[Chewpaco]

Terrible review. I don't have the time to refute every single one of your points, but let me just refute your review in its' entirety.

 

No auto-attack, no macros, and their own UI that everyone plays with is a good thing. I don't know when it became "industry standard" for a gaming company to allow all this 3rd party development of secondary UI's that display more information than originally intended, with automated warning systems features like big bold text in the middle of your screen warning you of danger. But it was a terrible move for the genre as a whole.

 

Cinematic story telling is second to none. If you want to skip through all your quest dialogue, and just get your objectives - pointed in the direction you need to go by glowing features on your map, I feel sorry for you, because you are missing the true delight I am finding in this game thus far. It has depth. I feel like I am on a "Journey to become a Master Jedi Sage". Not on a journey to become level 50.

 

Crafting through a companion is definately innovative. Although a lot of the items you make are the same armour, weapons, potions - it feels different. And different is good. Being able to gear your companion is also fun thus far. Pets in other games, are not similar in that fashion.

 

PvE content to this point feels good to me. You can die - and that is good. RIFT, WoW, Warhammer - to die while solo PvE'ing was more of an accomplishment than living.

 

Light and Dark points are a great feature. Companion affection is a great feature. I like the fact that every decision that I make has an effect on my personal journey.

 

Your review to me sounds like that of a WoW fanboy. If that is the game you like, go play it. But that game for me is over. Played it for 5 years, and I am done. No reason for me to relive the experience entirely in SWTOR.

[yomanaaiton]

Actually difference is that Bioware havent fumbled the ball yet so i do give them the benefit of doubt.

 

Dragon Age 2 suggests otherwise.

[ThiborF]

You know, it's a fair review from your perspective. Sadly though I could care less about WoW as my main MMO experience has been DAOC, MxO, and EVE. Anyone who uses WoW as their comparison point is automatically rendered irrelevant to me.

 

Just to add, when you are trying to craft a review, calling people 'Fanboy' and 'Fangirl' because they have differing opinions crushes any credibility.

 

While I came from WoW (and SWG & AC2 prior to that) I think this guy hits it spot on.

With emphasis on it being a "fair review" from the OP's perspective.

 

Happily, I have a different perspective than the OP.

 

And to the OP, I'm sure you do like to think you know what you're talking about and I'm sure you do ... when it comes down to what YOU like and dislike. After reading your near arm breaking patting of your own back I knew before reading the rest of your post what I would likely find. And I was fairly close.

[Premiumdub]

Eh...my review of your review is 2/10.

[Turando]

I appreciate the OP's review. I don't agree with most of it, but you took the time to come up with a well written, non-trolling review. Thanks, can I have your stuff?

[yomanaaiton]

Eh...my review of your review is 2/10.

 

Come back when you realize that review doesn't mean score.

Edited December 19, 2011 by yomanaaiton

[SanSeraph]

I'm curious to see how TOR evolves. If it follows the WoW gear treadmill raiding design then I won't play this game for long. If it does something different with it's endgame then maybe i stick around longer than I have planned. The best thing that could happen with this game is for the WoW players to quit, since there is a danger that Bioware may listen to them. Anyway, the story is far better than WoW's goofy saturday morning cartoon of a plot.

 

Not sure where the OP gets off critizing graphics and animations though. They aren't perfect but it is miles beyond WoW. (WoW looks like a kid ate a bunch of crayons and threw up on the screen. The animations are so simplistic that it hardly matters they are there)

 

I disagree with the OP about autoattack but have some critizism for Bioware too. Autoattack being gone would make more sense if targetting was based on proximity instead of the tab key. One thing that Age of Conan got right was the targetting and combat system which is miles ahead of WoW (and TOR for that matter).

 

Anyway...Whatever.

[Zhit]

Btw, blizz has been making a failing mmo for a few years now...

 

Lets hope BW can fail as hard a Blizzard. Remember the Catalysm expansion sold more in North America by day 1 than TOR has sold world wide. (3.3 million to an estimated 3 million)

 

For all of WOW's fail--WoW still boasts more montly subscribers than all over subscription based MMO's combined. Pretty sure that is the kind of failing BW is hoping TOR will emulate.

[Turando]

After reading your near arm breaking patting of your own back I knew before reading the rest of your post what I would likely find. And I was fairly close.

 

Truth. Blabbing about your credentials undermines your credibility.

[Premiumdub]

You know, it's a fair review from your perspective. Sadly though I could care less about WoW as my main MMO experience has been DAOC, MxO, and EVE. Anyone who uses WoW as their comparison point is automatically rendered irrelevant to me.

 

Just to add, when you are trying to craft a review, calling people 'Fanboy' and 'Fangirl' because they have differing opinions crushes any credibility.

 

You forgot the part where he compared PvP to human rights in Russia. CLEARLY not troll bait and a balanced view.

 

Nice patting on the back you did at the start too. All that playtime and devotion to WoW but your unbiased and in no way have any interest? Hmm...

Edited December 19, 2011 by Premiumdub

[MrObsession]

REally, a lot of us have no desire on inclination to play WoW.

 

For you and some gamers this might be the case, but it's some but not all. SOMBUNALL

 

Whether you like, dislike, or are indifferent to WoW, it is the MMO that has been on the cutting edge of the genre for several years now. That is not to say that everyone likes everything that they have done, but it does mean that it is the benchmark ... like it or not.

 

SWTOR cannot escape the huge shadow cast by WoW and comparisons are unavoidable. Nearly every deficiency in SWTOR is something that WoW has had to deal with.

 

Certainly the game gets a grace period to sort out some of those issues, but they definitely don't get 8 years to do it. People who dealt with those issues over the last eight years will be long gone by then. That's not to say that SWTOR can't be a success despite any deficiencies it may have. I think it will succeed in its own way regardless as long as BioWare continues to support it well.

 

I'm not sure if I'll be playing much beyond a few months. That depends on whether BioWare can match the endgame something to hold my interest. For now, I'll enjoy it though.

[Melanie]

I see no logic in your post, just typical burned out WoW player that's sick of the game.

 

I haven't played WoW in 2 years either and I wouldn't go back to it, ever, but facts are facts.

 

no logic? it's my train of thinking on the matter, it doesn't have to make sense to you.

 

I played wow up til about 6 months ago... i quit because i was tired of it, NOT because of this game, or any other. I just feel like Blizz doesn't care about their players enough to make lasting change, they just try to appease the local parts of their player base, to the detriment of the game. Yes, you should listen to your customers, but it's not always wise to take everything screamed about and put it in without more trial and error.

 

Blizz makes a good game, but it is so far past it's prime it's sad. like a 40 year old stripper.

 

and what facts? I said a fpsmmo wouldn't have the mass appeal of "normal" mmos. plus aren't their like 4 fpsmmos coming out? the glut will likely either kill them all or the blizz zombies will support LOLtitanLOL (egotistical name), or the best will rise to the top... time will tell. Blizz doesn't necessarily make the best games, just the easiest to get into therefore more "inflated" numbers than is realistic. They said themselves those numbers include all accounts (excluding non active) so free ones, trials, etc

[dvvx]

You forgot the part where he compared PvP to human rights in Russia. CLEARLY not troll bait and a balanced view.

 

Nice patting on the back you did at the start too. All that playtime and devotion to WoW but your unbiased and in no way have any interest? Hmm...

 

Making a joke in a review = troll bait? News to me.

 

My argument is that PvP is underdeveloped in ToR (if my joke put you off-balance). Prove me wrong.

Edited December 19, 2011 by dvvx

[Melanie]

Lets hope BW can fail as hard a Blizzard. Remember the Catalysm expansion sold more in North America by day 1 than TOR has sold world wide. (3.3 million to an estimated 3 million)

 

For all of WOW's fail--WoW still boasts more montly subscribers than all over subscription based MMO's combined. Pretty sure that is the kind of failing BW is hoping TOR will emulate.

 

fail-ING.. loss of subs in just 6 months is huge... if they lose that many every 6 months (outside asia as those don't count because they work differently) there will be a million people playing it in 2 years when titan comes out and fails. it'll go ftp by then.

[Kachief]

My WoW review!

 

Graphics!

WoW has BAD graphics! Even when it came out in 2004, its graphics were below average. Now they're way below average!.

 

Story!

 

Some stories are good, some are like OMG! Example are Questionable elements Like The Draeni crash landing a spaceship that blood elves built? If someone can build a spaceship, why are they still fighting with swords and daggers? huh, huh??!? OP? HUH?

 

Class Balance!

 

HAHAHA!! all i have to say is "Flavor of the Month" they nerf or buff whoever they want that month. there is no class balance.

Blizzard changes features based on player demands without no scientific research, they change their own design plans without facts.

 

End Game play

LFR is the worst idea EVER. can you defend LFR?!? OP?! i wanna hear it.

 

I can go on and on....

Edited December 19, 2011 by Kachief

[Imperialis]

To be quite honest, WoW is the most boring game of all times ( for me at least ) and Counterstrike ... oh God....

 

 

( And for the people saying Blizzard hat always success... not true, their first successes came with SC and WC )

 

Well comparing a game that just came out, from a software house that made a name for creating good RPGs, with one that is for years in the market and as yet to show something new and innovative.. i'd say hands down nice job Bioware.

 

Not that SW is revolutionary, but while it simply shines, the voice acting, the influence your actions take on the story... small things that matter, and i do hate wow-type mmos ( eve-player ) , but with SWTOR.. i can see i will be playing this game for a very very very very long time.

 

This game needs time to mature, and for the couch wizards out there screaming, oh God ! change this this this this this this this this and this NOW!, well people get together, go to a coffee shop , debate some ideias and put them perfectly together in less than a year... now try to sell your perfect game to others ... oh wait, you can't because things take time to develop and to polish...

 

Programming, personall management, server rents, how many servers, timetables, marketing, merchandising, more timetables, investors, potential number of costumers, target costumers, contracts, and so on and so on... all of this takes alot to manage, more now that the game is coming live in the next few hours ( germany here ) ....

 

You can't possibly compare this game to a seven y.o. game.. but has you did, SW is better, hands down, not that it doesn't have its flaws but so far, and apart from a CS that BW really needs to work on ( because they represent you BW folks ) , their devs are spot on and SW is just a game that will be thriving for years to come.

[timtty]

I rather enjoy the departure of auto swing. Having 40% or more of my damage coming from me not hitting buttons is not exciting or engaging what so ever.

 

What benefit do you get from trying to get us to come back to your 7 year old ****game?