A Tale of Two Games: ToR and WoW - Review!

[Ayestes]

Why is there blatantly false information in this review? I can see through all of your opinions that come off as facts, but when you examine cover it clearly has no global cooldown which cannot be taken as an opinion. I can take cover and Ambush for example, without any delay at all. This is clearly troll bait, as you couldn't have played the beta at all. Edited December 19, 2011 by Ayestes

[SithInitiate]

basically we have three camps:

 

those from a WoW background

 

those from a star wars/console gaming background but with little MMO experience

 

those from an MMO background that doesnt relate to WoW

 

those from a WoW background and expect WoW game features are going to be disappointed with TOR.. these features are:

 

dungeon finder

dual spec

cross server system

macros

add-on/mod system

customizable UI

 

thing is.. these things are systems, NOT content.. two very different things. obviously, TOR isnt going to have a game plus 3 expansions worth of content.. thats unrealistic.. and frankly not the OPs point from my standpoint.. this kind of content can be added in with patches.

 

however, the systems above most certainly could have been added for launch if they wanted.. if a game studio like Trion can do so with rift, a huge studio with 4 years of development time and a huge budget can as well.

 

because these features are not in the game, the players in this demographic will just go back to WoW.

 

now you can say GOOD. LET THEM LEAVE! unfortunately, they make up the majority of the MMO market.. so unless you want this game to be F2P in 6 months, you are going to have to face facts that these features NEED to be in the game.

 

the other two demographics mentioned will most likely like the game. heck I LOVE THE GAME! however, can bioware get enough subs from those other demographics to compete with the juggernaut? im not convinced.

 

but ill enjoy it while it lasts.. and even if the game does go F2P.. as long as there is a decent community in the game and bioware continues to add content.. ill still stick around..

 

that being said.. this game could EASILY have been so much more than that, and i think thats what frustrates me, and probably the OP as well.

[pantalaimona]

I was to bored to read it all, what lvl reached this "wow is awesome" guy?

[Tymeout]

People are missing the point I think of the OP. Forge the comparision to WoW that was made. People see WoW and auto matically start thinking that the **** is hitting the fan somewhere and become just as ignorant as the person they believe is ignorant for mentioning WoW.

 

Now I love this game. I love it. I find it to be so much fun and the story keeps me really involved and I dont skip any of the VO even for side quests because I think its really neat. Ive enjoyed pvp so far (Commando Healer). And ive had a lot of fun doing the few flash points ive been able to do so far. All in all its so much fun.

 

With that said the OP makes some good points. Its 2011 and almost 2012. This game as been in development for what seems like forever - why do we not have some of these inovative ideas that help make the game flow? Combat logs, UI adjustments, allowing mods, better looking for group tools besides spamming general chat? I agree that these are things that should have all come with the game at launch.

 

I hate reading how against people are for some of these features. This game is an MMO - Massively Multiplayer Online Game. This is not a single player game. Granted I am not saying that if you enjoy playing alone that you cant do that because they sure do their job of making sure single player play is enjoyable but the entire purpose of an MMO is for the community to come together and play together. And the fact is (definitely not opinion) that features like looking for group tools, mods, combat logs, recount like tools help make games run smoother. There will always be crazy douche bags that try to ruin your game expierence but I feel like after reading so many things on these forums that people forget that they dont have to play with that person. For every one person who abuses a damage meter there are five people who use it for its actual purpse. Find one of those people! They exist!

 

Wanting a game to succeed and knowing what it will need for it to succed is not elitist. Its just wanting a game to succed and not having it not meet its potential.

 

TLDR: Its 2011 - A MMO should have these things at release. It isnt 2005.

[Zhit]

SithInitiate -- kudos a worthy post to read--about nailed it...

[kennedybz]

Here's a question for you, slick. Why are you comparing a game released 8 years ago with a game that will be released tomorrow? Lets get those synapses firing!

 

I'd say because they're both out at the moment. Why play a game that is worse than an older one just because it's newer? And no, I'm not saying that SWTOR is worse than WoW. It just seems insanely stupid not to compare them because lets face it....WoW is the competition and if SWTOR is to succeed it HAS to be just as good as WoW. Otherwise the playerbase on SWTOR will be either star wars fans or those WoW fans that have finally become tired of WoW.

[WiseBirdOwl]

Your review is awful and no one cares about your WoW career either....

[Zeppelin]

You're comparing a game that's had 8 years to polish it's content (and it still sucks) to a game that hasn't even had 8 days yet. Smart move.

[jinxsters]

The comparison is warranted because a) they are both MMORPGs and b) Bioware/EA explicitly asserted that they are going after the prime competitor (WoW).

 

yes both are mmos and bioware never said they are going the prime competitor (WoW).

 

but too many reviews expect a new release to be totally optimized compared to a 7 yr old game. wow is still to this date optimizing their engine.

 

as for content you wana rush to 50 go ahead cause the vast majoruty wont get there till the 3 moth mark. most people work and such.

 

they already stated at the 3 month mark they are going to try and implement a new warzone and raid.

 

hutball is fun as hell better then WG version. you cant turtle in hutball as you can in WG.

 

aq sucks in a bad way they tried to copy the concept from DAoC and it failed

 

ab was the only decent battleground wow had when it came out on 1.7 patch

[kennedybz]

You're comparing a game that's had 8 years to polish it's content (and it still sucks) to a game that hasn't even had 8 days yet. Smart move.

 

Tell that to 11 million subscribers...You're obviously biased lol

[Phenyr]

The comparison is warranted because a) they are both MMORPGs and b) Bioware/EA explicitly asserted that they are going after the prime competitor (WoW).

 

It's like Mercedes makes a car which is directly competitor to Ferrari Enzo and it has to look the same you say. Their both super sport cars but they don't look the same nor sound the same, nor act the same each one of them has a unique story behind and 'personality'. Your logic is a bit flawed no offence.

 

 

Saying so that doesn't mean it has to exactly like WoW which latest xpac was a big fiasco from my point of view.

 

I'm no Blizzard fan boy nor Bioware but I'll give this game a fair chance the same I did with WoW.

[Melanie]

I'd say because they're both out at the moment. Why play a game that is worse than an older one just because it's newer? And no, I'm not saying that SWTOR is worse than WoW. It just seems insanely stupid not to compare them because lets face it....WoW is the competition and if SWTOR is to succeed it HAS to be just as good as WoW. Otherwise the playerbase on SWTOR will be either star wars fans or those WoW fans that have finally become tired of WoW.

 

I get where you're coming from, but most of the things people want from tor are things that blizzard learned from their customers to put in. Not everyone who plays TOR wants a group finder I DON'T... i don't want rated war zones, i don't esports, i don't want dps meters, i don't want a lot fo things wow has. but i am just one voice. we have to tell BW want we want, and if it's viable they will get to it. There are two VERY vocal camps about group finders.. who do they listen to?

[Striker]

You can't please everyone. I play a warrior and love not having an autoattack. I really question how high the OP leveled if it bothers him about not having one. I also prefer this style of pvp over WoW's. I don't really care about competitive pvp and am glad they aren't going to focus on balancing around it and making arenas. Huttball is simply a fun game to play which is why I play it.

[Chessack]

basically we have three camps:

 

those from a WoW background

 

those from a star wars/console gaming background but with little MMO experience

 

those from an MMO background that doesnt relate to WoW

 

 

You missed the fourth camp:

 

Those from a Bioware games background who love Bioware style games, love conversations and cutscenes, and specifically and purposely play Bioware games to experience those things. I, for one, have played all the BW games multiple times. KOTOR, I've played at least 10 times, most recently a couple of weeks ago. Jade Empire 3 or 4 times. Mass Effect 5 times. Mass Effect 2 four times. Dragon Age twice. Dragon Age 2 twice. In all those play-throughs, even my KOTOR ten-peat, I have not ever skipped the dialogue... because that dialogue is what makes BW games so wonderful.

 

This is not to say that I haven't played MMOs before -- I have, lots of them. SWG, COH, CO, LOTRO, Ryzom, Vanguard, even WOW a little. But guess what? I always kept going back to single player Bioware games because I like the Bioware model better.

 

The OP's comments are very revealing in that he skips all the dialogue, and then he has the nerve to say that, without the dialogue, which is the main selling feature of this game, the quests are "boring." I don't necessarily agree (I've had fun with most of the quests), but I think the dialogue is what brings this game to a whole other level. Three friends and I did the Esseles flashpoint on Friday night, and I was blown away. For the first time in an MMORPG, I felt like I was on an adventure, rather than just "cleaning out a dungeon." It's NOT the case that the dialogue just "starts the quest off." You get many points of dialogue throughout the flashpoint, and you make key critical decisions in them -- decisions that affect the outcome of the flashpoint.

 

If the OP cannot enjoy that mode of game-play then I can see why he would hate the game. But to pretend that this is somehow "just the same as all the MMOs that came before" is fundamentally incorrect.

[DarthAmok]

Comparing a finely tuned game with 7+ years of polish to a brand new release is rather unfair as well.

 

Though, I guess the world is unfair and SWTOR has to be compared to what else is currently out there - not to where the other things were at their release.

 

Im sorry to say this but, whatever youre drinking is laced with idiot.

 

Edit: You are not the only one drinking that poison, attack of the idiots going on in this thread.

Edited December 19, 2011 by DarthAmok

[Chewpaco]

People are missing the point I think of the OP. Forge the comparision to WoW that was made. People see WoW and auto matically start thinking that the **** is hitting the fan somewhere and become just as ignorant as the person they believe is ignorant for mentioning WoW.

 

Now I love this game. I love it. I find it to be so much fun and the story keeps me really involved and I dont skip any of the VO even for side quests because I think its really neat. Ive enjoyed pvp so far (Commando Healer). And ive had a lot of fun doing the few flash points ive been able to do so far. All in all its so much fun.

 

With that said the OP makes some good points. Its 2011 and almost 2012. This game as been in development for what seems like forever - why do we not have some of these inovative ideas that help make the game flow? Combat logs, UI adjustments, allowing mods, better looking for group tools besides spamming general chat? I agree that these are things that should have all come with the game at launch.

 

I hate reading how against people are for some of these features. This game is an MMO - Massively Multiplayer Online Game. This is not a single player game. Granted I am not saying that if you enjoy playing alone that you cant do that because they sure do their job of making sure single player play is enjoyable but the entire purpose of an MMO is for the community to come together and play together. And the fact is (definitely not opinion) that features like looking for group tools, mods, combat logs, recount like tools help make games run smoother. There will always be crazy douche bags that try to ruin your game expierence but I feel like after reading so many things on these forums that people forget that they dont have to play with that person. For every one person who abuses a damage meter there are five people who use it for its actual purpse. Find one of those people! They exist!

 

Wanting a game to succeed and knowing what it will need for it to succed is not elitist. Its just wanting a game to succed and not having it not meet its potential.

 

TLDR: Its 2011 - A MMO should have these things at release. It isnt 2005.

 

UI Mods, Macro's and so on should NOT be allowed. I applaud BioWare for not wanting to go in that direction. They are not needed. All the tools that you need to succeed are in the game.

 

I don't care if you have been conditioned to need UI / Add-on crutches developed for other games. MMORPG's used to be communities of individuals that relied on eachother for success. LFG, Cross Server LFG's, LFR's, while major components of other games, have hurt the genre. They are not good ideas. They support the playstyle of being anti-social- withdrawn from a society that needs community cooperation for it to be of ultimate success.

 

Too many people want to play their MMO's like a fast food version of Call of Duty. Queue up and fight. Too bad. Others want to develop their characters on a journey, build in game friendships along the way, and have an epic experience - not an epic sword.

[bfallingstar]

.....Just to add, when you are trying to craft a review, calling people 'Fanboy' and 'Fangirl' because they have differing opinions crushes any credibility.

 

^ This

[SnoggyMack]

Source?

 

also lol @ prefacing a boring rant with your e-legacy.

 

Aww c'mon, the guy's clearly a CS demigod! And was in not just one, but two top 10 WoW guilds. Two!

 

That needed to be said. To establish his cred.

[Mysry]

The OP is dead on with all of it, face it, if you take the blinders off you see that even though they took so long to bring this game to life they still ran with the concept they had so many years ago when they started.

 

Maybe the OP does know more than the rest of us maybe not, but the level of rant directed at his post is unreal. It was well crafted and clearly thought out. I remember the same type of post from the OP during beta, and they were met with a great deal of the same type of "go play WoW" that it is now.

 

For what it's worth noone should be surprised when servers that have long qeues now get merged later due to the mass exodus that is going to come once people realize end-game is virtualy non-existant and poorly designed and was barely tested.

 

It's oh so true that in 2011 the developers should have learned that realising a game that has had years of development should have all the features of the game they are trying to compete with. And by that I mean all the things the OP listed.

[jinxsters]

Tell that to 11 million subscribers...You're obviously biased lol

 

actually its 10 mill now and they are losen loads more not due to ToR but just the game is stagnant. lore wise they hit the ceiling. mists of panderia really thats what they come up with i mean wow.

 

i played wow since day 1 of launch the game is great it just got to old. i wanted a new setting a sci fi one not a fantasy 1.

 

the new mmo blizz is maken is in the sci fi universe a totally new one and believe me i will get it.

 

you have warhammer 40k comen out as well as tera. the amount of mmos now are the key reason y wow is losen subs in our market. wow will never die caus the asian market will keep it upfloat.

 

 

look people ToR does not need 10 mill to be a success they already stated 500k is their goAL

[Zeppelin]

Tell that to 11 million subscribers...You're obviously biased lol

 

Me saying WoW sucks is bias, but the basic theme of my sentence is not. WoW has had 8 years to polish it's content... TOR hasn't even had 8 days. Comparing the two is a bit premature.

[jinxsters]

actually its 10 mill now and they are losen loads more not due to ToR but just the game is stagnant. lore wise they hit the ceiling. mists of panderia really thats what they come up with i mean wow.

 

i played wow since day 1 of launch the game is great it just got to old. i wanted a new setting a sci fi one not a fantasy 1.

 

the new mmo blizz is maken is in the sci fi universe a totally new one and believe me i will get it.

 

you have warhammer 40k comen out as well as tera. the amount of mmos now are the key reason y wow is losen subs in our market. wow will never die caus the asian market will keep it upfloat.

 

 

look people ToR does not need 10 mill to be a success they already stated 500k is their goAL

 

ALL MMOS LOSE 1/2 ITS SUBS THE FIRST MONTH AND YES YOUR GREAT WOW DID AS WELL.

 

we wont know a thing till after a year and no this game wont go F2P for a looong time look at warhammer owned by the same company and it is failing hard yet its still P2P.

 

 

for all those that say it will are those that can not afford the sub and want to play free well let me say this once a game goes F2P i dont play cause you get all the kiddies rushing in then few months away they all leave.

 

LoTRO is split P2P and F2P and that may work but everyone knows if you want to play the whole game u need a sub

[Melanie]

actually its 10 mill now and they are losen loads more not due to ToR but just the game is stagnant. lore wise they hit the ceiling. mists of panderia really thats what they come up with i mean wow.

 

i played wow since day 1 of launch the game is great it just got to old. i wanted a new setting a sci fi one not a fantasy 1.

 

the new mmo blizz is maken is in the sci fi universe a totally new one and believe me i will get it.

 

you have warhammer 40k comen out as well as tera. the amount of mmos now are the key reason y wow is losen subs in our market. wow will never die caus the asian market will keep it upfloat.

 

 

look people ToR does not need 10 mill to be a success they already stated 500k is their goAL

 

 

and GW2, The Secret World (which looks amazing), Warhammer 40k, Wild Star, World of Darkness (ok that maybe two years out), just lots of solid looking competition, i for one am excited by the future of mmos.

[kennedybz]

Me saying WoW sucks is bias, but the basic theme of my sentence is not. WoW has had 8 years to polish it's content... TOR hasn't even had 8 days. Comparing the two is a bit premature.

 

All I'm saying is it's hard to not compare them simply because if SWTOR isn't as good or atleast nearly as good it will fail. This is regardless of the fact that SWTOR is new. People won't wait around 8 years to get a game that is as "polished" as WOW. They'll play WoW, or some other game that they decide is "polished." I'm not flaming SWTOR....thus far I think it is an enjoyable game. Only time will tell if it will last.

[Draksen]

Fast summary for those who havent the time to read op's post:

 

"I prefer pandas over jedis".