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Is it possible to master both the light side and dark side at the same time?


Xanikk

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1.You are arguing that just because we haven't seen a Sith or Dark Sider use Positive emotions to fuel his power, doesn't mean it can't be done, when we have evidence from some of the most intelligent Sith that using them doesn't work, your argument is Arnem Ixem and nihilistic at best.

 

2.Revan wasn't using both sides of the force, he was achieving oneness with the Force in that particular scene, go play the foundry, his buffs switch from the Light Side then to the Dark Side of the Force and he switches to lightning, etc...

 

1. Maybe. I'm just expressing my views on the Force.

 

2. No. Not that fight, not in-game.

 

In the Revan novel, near the very end, Revan, Meetra, and Scourge face off against the Emperor. At one point, the Emperor (meters away from Revan) starts to open up with a Force Storm. Revan, too far away to interrupt Vitiate, opens himself to both sides of the Force at the same time to safely absorb the Storm.

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2. No. Not that fight, not in-game.

 

In the Revan novel, near the very end, Revan, Meetra, and Scourge face off against the Emperor. At one point, the Emperor (meters away from Revan) starts to open up with a Force Storm. Revan, too far away to interrupt Vitiate, opens himself to both sides of the Force at the same time to safely absorb the Storm.

 

I am referring to the battle in the throne room, he achieves oneness with the force and absorbs Vitiate's storm, then blasts him back, that's what oneness does gives you full control over the Force, he is not using both sides of the force, he has achieved a sense of oneness, re-read the scene.

 

[spoilers]More over, when you face Revan in the Foundry, he uses the Light Side first, as evidenced by his buff and his calmer personality, later into the fight he calls on the Dark Side and his buff is changed to 'Power of the Dark Side' and he starts using Dun Moch and Dark Side powers, near the end of the duel he gains the balance buff shortly before his seeming death.

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I am referring to the battle in the throne room, he achieves oneness with the force and absorbs Vitiate's storm, then blasts him back, that's what oneness does gives you full control over the Force, he is not using both sides of the force, he has achieved a sense of oneness, re-read the scene.

 

[spoilers]More over, when you face Revan in the Foundry, he uses the Light Side first, as evidenced by his buff and his calmer personality, later into the fight he calls on the Dark Side and his buff is changed to 'Power of the Dark Side' and he starts using Dun Moch and Dark Side powers, near the end of the duel he gains the balance buff shortly before his seeming death.

 

"This time, Revan began to sense the oppressive presence of the dark side weighing down on him. The Emperor was trying to crush his will—to dominate and enslave his mind as he had before. However, Revan was prepared. Instead of charging forward, he opened himself up to the Force, letting both the light and the dark side flow through him like twin rushing rivers. Revan then released the Force in its purest form. There was brilliant flash as the air between the two combatants lit up. The energy unleashed was powerful enough to send the Emperor flying in the air in the backward direction."

 

So..... Yeah. I don't know about you, but that looks like using both sides of the Force, at the same time, to me.

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So..... Yeah. I don't know about you, but that looks like using both sides of the Force, at the same time, to me.

He is right, what's described best fits with Oneness:

Oneness was the state of union with the Force. While under normal circumstances this could only be achieved after a Force-sensitive had died and passed into the Netherworld of the Force, this was not always the case. In some select circumstances living individuals managed to become an extension of the Force. They essentially became nothing more than an extension (a tool) of the Force, and were at a perfect calm.

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Oneness

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He is right, what's described best fits with Oneness:

 

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Oneness

 

...he opened himself up to the Force, letting both the light and the dark side flow through him like twin rushing rivers.

 

Then.... What's the difference? If Oneness is the above as seen in the Revan novel, then mastery of both sides of the Force is possible, because there's no difference between both sides in the greater view of the Force outside of the Jedi/Sith dichotomy. If what's described in the book isn't Oneness, then simultaneous mastery of The Light Side and Dark Side is possible anyway, because Revan did it.

Edited by Velaran
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Then.... What's the difference? If Oneness is the above as seen in the Revan novel, then mastery of both sides of the Force is possible, because there's no difference between both sides in the greater view of the Force outside of the Jedi/Sith dichotomy.

 

Read the description again. You surrender everything you are to become a tool, an extension of the Force. That's the exact opposite of mastering something ;)

Edited by blooddodo
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Use then. We're talking semantics now.

 

No, we aren't. For example, I can use a pencil to draw something, but am by no stretch of the imagination a master at drawing things with a pencil :)

The original question is "Is it possible to master both the light side and dark side at the same time?"

It is my understanding that you cannot.

However if you ask if one can simply use both sides, then yes, very much so. Like every fallen jedi, ever.

Edited by blooddodo
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The Force itself didn't want the Emperor around (can't blame it), and Revan opened himself up to it. I've never seen Revan do that anywhere else but there (certainly not in the games as any sort of narrative element people mentioned), so Oneness is the easiest explanation. At that one moment he was permitted to do the impossible. Every other time Revan has been awesome, it was because he was simply strong in the Force, to the point where Kreia saw 'like looking into the sun, the Jedi he'd slay etched into his soul'. I'm pretty sure if Revan could do that normally Kreia of all people would have noticed, given how she was a big proponent of flitting around between teachings and tenets of using the Force and generally disregarded conventional wisdom.

 

Given how she also wound up thinking the Force was some indifferent god that played with people's lives, I'm sure she would have been horrified if she knew Revan was surrendering himself to it (and he did come back to her later, one last time). But no, she never has anything but praise for him. He fit nicely into her worldview.

Edited by Rhadamanthine
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No, we aren't. For example, I can use a pencil to draw something, but am by no stretch of the imagination a master at drawing things with a pencil :)

The original question is "Is it possible to master both the light side and dark side at the same time?"

It is my understanding that you cannot.

However if you ask if one can simply use both sides, then yes, very much so. Like every fallen jedi, ever.

 

Fallen Jedi use the Dark Side.

 

The Force itself didn't want the Emperor around (can't blame it), and Revan opened himself up to it. I've never seen Revan do that anywhere else but there (certainly not in the games as any sort of narrative element people mentioned), so Oneness is the easiest explanation. At that one moment he was permitted to do the impossible. Every other time Revan has been awesome, it was because he was simply strong in the Force, to the point where Kreia saw 'like looking into the sun, the Jedi he'd slay etched into his soul'. I'm pretty sure if Revan could do that normally Kreia of all people would have noticed, given how she was a big proponent of flitting around between teachings and tenets of using the Force and generally disregarded conventional wisdom.

 

Given how she also wound up thinking the Force was some indifferent god that played with people's lives, I'm sure she would have been horrified if she knew Revan was surrendering himself to it (and he did come back to her later, one last time). But no, she never has anything but praise for him. He fit nicely into her worldview.

 

YMMV.

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  • 1 month later...

Kyle Katarn used both the light side powers and dark side powers,

 

"Despite knowing the dangers of the dark side, Katarn utilized the dark powers of Force grip and Force lightning even as a Jedi Master. In spite of this, he was equally strong in light-side Force powers, such as Force absorb and Force protection, which he demonstrated during his mission with Jaden. This, combined with a number of Katarn's statements, indicates that he could have believed in the Potentium theory of the Force."

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Kyle Katarn used both the light side powers and dark side powers,

 

"Despite knowing the dangers of the dark side, Katarn utilized the dark powers of Force grip and Force lightning even as a Jedi Master. In spite of this, he was equally strong in light-side Force powers, such as Force absorb and Force protection, which he demonstrated during his mission with Jaden. This, combined with a number of Katarn's statements, indicates that he could have believed in the Potentium theory of the Force."

 

Way to resurrect a dead thread.

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Yes. Here comes a qoute from the Revan book so spoiler alert

 

 

"This time, however, Revan was ready. Instead of charging forward, he opened himself up to the force, letting both the light and the dark side flow through him like twin rushing rivers. But instead of focusing or channeling the Force, he released it in its purest form."

 

 

So there you go. The qoute is from page 275, line 14-17 btw.

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Revan mastered both, in the book he describes harnessing the power of the light side and dark side as two rivers flowing through him.

 

Dude I've just qouted this directly from the book in post just above yours -_-"

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You could be neutral, like Jolee (Bindo?) from kotor.

 

A grey Jedi doesn't really use dark side, like their Dark Jedi counterpart. In Kotor it was foolish to give dark side powers to Jolee, his force would deplete rapidly.

 

Qui Gon was also considered to be a grey jedi, no idea if he used dark side powers in novels or comics featuring him.

Edited by Charon
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I realize this is a necro'd thread but it is an entertaining philosophical debate so I will add my two cents. One argument in favor of positive emotions being a fuel source for the Sith comes from the hologram of Keleth'ur. He says the Sith channel the Force through the use of strong emotions, chiefly fear and anger. Chiefly is not the same thing as exclusively.

 

My take on this is that the Sith can use the more benevolent emotions, but the fact that they do not would indicate the negative emotions produce more powerful results and are much more useful in combat where hating one's enemy or fearing death are very natural things to feel. A Sith that has trained a lifetime in how to harness feelings of honor, loyalty, love, or even kindness could potentially produce results that are just as good but it seems to me that such an effort would be much more intense and take a lot more time - using anger, hatred, and fear is really easy and gets the same results much more quickly.

 

Of course that all plays into the scene between Yoda and Luke where Luke asks if the Dark Side is more powerful and to which Yoda replies that it is just easier and faster.

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Is it possible to master both sides of the force without the darkside totally consuming you?

 

This sounds a bit schizophrenic to me, and strangely enough also to the voices inside my head... :jawa_evil:

The channeling of violent emotions in this way would require a huge degree of focus and self-control, which I suspect Jedi would be capable of, but the corrupting power of the Dark Side would ultimately be *probably* too difficult to control.

 

Mace Windu's Vaapad style is nowhere near what you are looking for, but it is still probably the closest any Jedi Master has come, and the failure rate of those who attempted it is huge, with failure leading to the Dark Side.

 

If I recall correctly, didn't the early jedaii who evolved into the jedi practice both the light and dark side without becoming corrupted by the dark side?

 

The early Jedi practiced "the Force", with those who sought unity and peace gravitating towards the skills, abilities and outlook that characterises the "Light Side", while those who sought conquest, dominion and the ability to shoot lightning from your fingers while having skin like a dried prune gravitated to what we would call the "Dark Side".

 

Light and Dark, being two sides of the same coin, were not really defined until the differences caused the "Light Side" Jedi to seek protection from the "Dark Side" Jedi, and the "Dark Side" jedi to seek dominion over the "Light Side" jedi. Up to that point, the Jedi lore simply had "Jedi" as a homogeneous group of people with extra-ordinary abilities.

In the same way, Luke at the time of Ep.V and VI showed a mix of what we would now term Light Side and Dark Side traits, because George Lucas had not created the entire canon rules and history surrounding the Jedi, so he was simply a "Jedi".

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FYI Revan didn't master either, he achieved Oneness with the force, or are we going to say Jacen Solo mastered both sides of the force and became more powerful than Luke Skywalker, despite being schooled by Luke afterwards? :p Edited by Rayla_Felana
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Master? Not... Really. Opposing poles of the magnet.

 

Use? Competently? Without corruption? Sure.

 

Grey Jedi. Or the 'grey side'. The idea is that the force isn't as easy to break down into 'good' and 'bad', because 'bad' actions will always bring bring balance or have 'good' actions balance them. For instance, trying to remove emotions would be impossible... A living being requires them to truly live, but on the opposite side of the coin... One cannot fall prey to them.

 

Force users from this school of thought are INCREDIBLY rare, despite the obvious logic behind the school of thought. Some 'grey' Jedi simply were... Less adherent to the teachings of the light side and followed them 'in spirit' only (Qui Gon Jin). Others actually cast off the idea of the light holding all the answers (Jolee Bindo). Even some sub-sect GROUPS of force users were regarded as 'good, but not entirely' (The Imperial Knights)

 

Then there are some users who... Are rather sketchy. Kyle Katarn, Jaden Korr and Meetra Surik are able to acquire dark side powers in their games... But it's not clear if they ever actually used them or believed that the light wasn't the 'only' option if you didn't eat babies.

 

 

So, being both isn't ENTIRELY unheard of... But a 'master'? Well, that's debatable.

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It should be possible, as long as you can access the Dark Side with "good" emotions. (Bravery, compassion, love, ect.) Then you could use the DS without fear of tripping out into a homicidal rage every ten seconds.

 

For the record, the Dark Side isn't a corrupting force.

 

No, it isn't possible as you cannot access the "Dark Side" with good emotions. There is no evidence that this is actually possible. For the record, canonically, the Dark Side is very corrupting.

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Master? Not... Really. Opposing poles of the magnet.

 

Use? Competently? Without corruption? Sure.

 

Grey Jedi. Or the 'grey side'. The idea is that the force isn't as easy to break down into 'good' and 'bad', because 'bad' actions will always bring bring balance or have 'good' actions balance them. For instance, trying to remove emotions would be impossible... A living being requires them to truly live, but on the opposite side of the coin... One cannot fall prey to them.

 

Force users from this school of thought are INCREDIBLY rare, despite the obvious logic behind the school of thought. Some 'grey' Jedi simply were... Less adherent to the teachings of the light side and followed them 'in spirit' only (Qui Gon Jin). Others actually cast off the idea of the light holding all the answers (Jolee Bindo). Even some sub-sect GROUPS of force users were regarded as 'good, but not entirely' (The Imperial Knights)

 

Then there are some users who... Are rather sketchy. Kyle Katarn, Jaden Korr and Meetra Surik are able to acquire dark side powers in their games... But it's not clear if they ever actually used them or believed that the light wasn't the 'only' option if you didn't eat babies.

 

 

So, being both isn't ENTIRELY unheard of... But a 'master'? Well, that's debatable.

 

Gray Jedi can't use the Light Side and the Dark Side.

 

Canonically Katarn actually fell to the Dark Side trying this and Jaden Korr even in his own novels doesn't believe that you can just use them willy nilly. Luke Skywalker is the ultimate authority when it comes to this having been trained by the most powerful Sith Lord to have ever lived, aka Darth Sidious, he knows the Dark Side better than most...

 

See my sig for his take on it.

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