Is it possible to master both the light side and dark side at the same time?

[Velaran]

You can't fuel the Dark Side with positive emotions, once again that isn't how it works.

 

Forgive me if i've missed your post elaborating on why not, but why not?

 

Why can't positive emotions be used with the Dark Side? Like I said, the Jedi reject emotion, so clearly the Light Side doesn't use positive emotions. If the Dark Side doesn't use them, then what? Are they just not used? That doesn't make any sense.

Edited April 28, 2012 by Velaran

[Setsugetsuka]

The Jedi are practitioners of the Light Side, they are the majority of which uses it, but that doesn't mean that they define it as an entirety. Jedi strive to rid themselves of emotion not because they need to for the light side, but they need to remove the possibility of them succumbing to the Dark Side.

 

Either way, Dark Side is negative and Light Side positive, think of a magnet.

It just wouldn't work.

 

Well, it'd work if you had like, a split personality or something, but that's just completely far-fetched and ridiculous.

[OldVengeance]

Has there ever been a record of a Sith lord focusing their love and compassion into force lighting? That's just not how it works.

[Velaran]

The Jedi are practitioners of the Light Side, they are the majority of which uses it, but that doesn't mean that they define it as an entirety. Jedi strive to rid themselves of emotion not because they need to for the light side, but they need to remove the possibility of them succumbing to the Dark Side.

 

Either way, Dark Side is negative and Light Side positive, think of a magnet.

It just wouldn't work.

 

Then, what, can the Light Side be fueled by both no emotion and positive emotion? What's with that? Why can't the Dark Side be fueled in a similar, bi-functional way? And who draws the line between positive and negative?

 

Has there ever been a record of a Sith lord focusing their love and compassion into force lighting? That's just not how it works.

 

Not that I know of. However, there's a big leap between hasn't been done and can't be done.

[Xanikk]

Has there ever been a record of a Sith lord focusing their love and compassion into force lighting? That's just not how it works.

 

The sith are not the sole practicioners of the dark side though.

 

I see no reason why strong positive emotions can't be used to fuel the force. There is no lore saying otherwise. Feel free to try and prove me wrong though.

[Khalhazar]

Can somebody familiar with the EU lore clarify: What is the hard line between LS and DS, if any? Is it emotion vs. non-emotion or positive vs. negative? Some mix of all?

[Rhadamanthine]

Can somebody familiar with the EU lore clarify: What is the hard line between LS and DS, if any? Is it emotion vs. non-emotion or positive vs. negative? Some mix of all?

 

The only real hard line I ever see is giving into negative emotions that fuel the Dark Side. Jedi get all stodgy and hidebound with their institutionalization about avoiding strong emotions of any kind, but that is due to their policy. Plenty of Jedi throughout the ages think that's ridiculous, but it's just an institutional design to keep large amounts of Jedi from falling to the Dark Side because people aren't perfect and a big organization tends toward overcompensating on the practical side.

 

The famous love is dangerous and forbidden thing is because some people get overly possessive once in love and that can do all kinds of things that open you up to the Dark Side. Not because loving someone in and of itself fuels it.

[lokdron]

Forgive me if i've missed your post elaborating on why not, but why not?

 

Why can't positive emotions be used with the Dark Side? Like I said, the Jedi reject emotion, so clearly the Light Side doesn't use positive emotions. If the Dark Side doesn't use them, then what? Are they just not used? That doesn't make any sense.

 

Cause thats not how the dark side works it feeds off negative emotions dark side force powers do not work by channeling positive emotions it simply does not work that way. Darth vader tried to heal his lungs via the dark side with hate it was working but when he started to feel joy the dark side force power stopped because the dark side cannot be used together with positive emotions.

 

Hence why destruction and suffering on a massive scale makes the dark side stronger. For example darth bane was dying from poison do you know what bane did to sustain his body? He murdered a farther and two kids and used their suffering and anguish to keep himself going.

 

The light side works with being at peace and tranquility.

 

If you are an LS sith the reason why you are still using dark side powers is simple game play mechanics bioware WAS going to change your force powers if you went light side(for sith) or dark side(for jedi) but they decided not to for game play balance.

 

 

You can only use dark side force powers by channeling negative emotions this is canon and those who say revan mastered both he did not if you pay attention to the flashpoint HE FELL TO THE DARK SIDE AGAIN!

Edited April 29, 2012 by lokdron

[Velaran]

Cause thats not how the dark side works it feeds off negative emotions dark side force powers do not work by channeling positive emotions it simply does not work that way. Darth vader tried to heal his lungs via the dark side with hate it was working but when he started to feel joy the dark side force power stopped because the dark side cannot be used together with positive emotions.

 

Hence why destruction and suffering on a massive scale makes the dark side stronger. For example darth bane was dying from poison do you know what bane did to sustain his body? He murdered a farther and two kids and used their suffering and anguish to keep himself going.

 

The light side works with being at peace and tranquility.

 

If you are an LS sith the reason why you are still using dark side powers is simple game play mechanics bioware WAS going to change your force powers if you went light side(for sith) or dark side(for jedi) but they decided not to for game play balance.

 

 

You can only use dark side force powers by channeling negative emotions this is canon and those who say revan mastered both he did not if you pay attention to the flashpoint HE FELL TO THE DARK SIDE AGAIN!

 

1. Did Vader even try to keep healing himself, from the joy? Or did he just not realize there might be another way?

 

2. Did Bane even consider an alternative? Nope, he just killed them and used their pain. He didn't even attempt anything else. And why would he? Pain and hate are easy to get: Just swish a lightsaber at something.

 

3. You understand that Revan fell back to the Dark Side after three hundred years of a direct mind-link to the Emperor right? Bloody Master Yoda would have fallen from that. Prior to his defeat and imprisonment, Revan was perfectly balancing both sides of the Force.

 

 

Still not seeing any real proof that using positive emotions with the Dark Side is impossible.

 

Saying "you just can't", isn't proof.

Edited April 29, 2012 by Velaran

[OldVengeance]

1. Did Vader even try to keep healing himself, from the joy? Or did he just not realize there might be another way?

 

2. Did Bane even consider an alternative? Nope, he just killed them and used their pain. He didn't even attempt anything else. And why would he? Pain and hate are easy to get: Just swish a lightsaber at something.

 

3. You understand that Revan fell back to the Dark Side after three hundred years of a direct mind-link to the Emperor right? Bloody Master Yoda would have fallen from that. Prior to his defeat and imprisonment, Revan was perfectly balancing both sides of the Force.

 

 

Still not seeing any real proof that using positive emotions with the Dark Side is impossible.

 

Saying "you just can't", isn't proof.

 

So you're reasoning is that the only reason that sith never use positive emotions is just because in all the tens of thousands of years not a single one has ever thought of it before?

Edited April 29, 2012 by OldVengeance

[Rayla_Felana]

1. Did Vader even try to keep healing himself, from the joy? Or did he just not realize there might be another way?

 

2. Did Bane even consider an alternative? Nope, he just killed them and used their pain. He didn't even attempt anything else. And why would he? Pain and hate are easy to get: Just swish a lightsaber at something.

 

3. You understand that Revan fell back to the Dark Side after three hundred years of a direct mind-link to the Emperor right? Bloody Master Yoda would have fallen from that. Prior to his defeat and imprisonment, Revan was perfectly balancing both sides of the Force.

 

 

Still not seeing any real proof that using positive emotions with the Dark Side is impossible.

 

Saying "you just can't", isn't proof.

 

You seriously need to pick up on your lore if you believe Positive Emotions can fuel the Dark Side when Sith masters of all sorts have outright stated they have no use for them.

 

Positive emotions are just natural human emotions, the Jedi don't forbid love, they forbid attachment, the difference is big.

 

The Dark Side of the Force has always been fuelled by negative emotions, rage, etc... Positive emotions aren't usable by the Dark Side, all Dark Side force powers are used for destructive purposes or self-sustaining ones.

 

Darth Bane himself stated that positive emotions have no use and that the Dark Side struggles where powers like healing are concerned.

 

Some of the best examples come from Sith Warriors who fuel their rage to sustain their shattered bodies, through anger and hate, Darths Maul, Bane, Malgus, Vader and Sion are all examples, the last two the best examples, once they let go of their rage and stopped feeding off of hateful emotions, and felt love, joy, etc... they died.

Edited April 29, 2012 by Rayla_Felana

[Rhadamanthine]

Still not seeing any real proof that using positive emotions with the Dark Side is impossible.

 

Saying "you just can't", isn't proof.

 

Dude, you're saying they have to prove a negative.

Edited April 29, 2012 by Rhadamanthine

[October]

Revan utilized and balanced both sides.

 

There have also been others that have used both as well...

[Rayla_Felana]

Revan utilized and balanced both sides.

 

There have also been others that have used both as well...

 

No, he did not, that is a misconception.

 

He used the Light Side primarily, but started to call on the dark side in more intense situations, The Foundry is a perfect example of this.

[Velaran]

So you're reasoning is that the only reason that sith never use positive emotions is just because in all the tens of thousands of years not a single one has ever thought of it before?

 

This Sith Code is pretty clear on this: Always take the easiest and most expedient path to power, and always oppose the Jedi Order. Hate and anger are the fastest way to gain power in the Force, and positive emotions are too similar to the ideals of the Jedi for the vast majority of Sith to use.

 

So yes.

 

You seriously need to pick up on your lore if you believe Positive Emotions can fuel the Dark Side when Sith masters of all sorts have outright stated they have no use for them.

 

Positive emotions are just natural human emotions, the Jedi don't forbid love, they forbid attachment, the difference is big.

 

The Dark Side of the Force has always been fuelled by negative emotions, rage, etc... Positive emotions aren't usable by the Dark Side, all Dark Side force powers are used for destructive purposes or self-sustaining ones.

 

Darth Bane himself stated that positive emotions have no use and that the Dark Side struggles where powers like healing are concerned.

 

Some of the best examples come from Sith Warriors who fuel their rage to sustain their shattered bodies, through anger and hate, Darths Maul, Bane, Malgus, Vader and Sion are all examples, the last two the best examples, once they let go of their rage and stopped feeding off of hateful emotions, and felt love, joy, etc... they died.

 

1. See above reply: Negative emotions are easier and faster. Most Sith have no reason to take a more difficult path.

 

2. "There is no emotion, there is the Force." Even if the Jedi don't expressly forbid emotions, they discourage them from the moment a youngling enters the Temple.

 

3. It's been said before: Bane isn't infallible.

 

4. Of course they died. How could anybody switch from one method of using the Force to a completely different, foreign method, moments after they've lost the will to live?

 

 

Edit:

 

No, he did not, that is a misconception.

 

He used the Light Side primarily, but started to call on the dark side in more intense situations, The Foundry is a perfect example of this.

 

He seemed to be both sides of the Force, pretty damn well, at the exact same time, in his fight with the Emperor in the Revan novel.

Edited April 29, 2012 by Velaran

[lokdron]

You must really update yourself on star wars lore I mean really the dark side cannot gain power with positive emotions why do you think all dark side practitioners use hate and fury to fuel their power?

 

For example in kotor 2 the exile has the option to murder their companions kriea says that if she kills her companions she will be stronger in the dark side if she saves them she will become weaker in the dark side hence the light side points if you save them and the huge amount of dark side points if you kill them.

 

Look at the jedi consular story the sith lord is spreading a dark side plague he says if you kill him it will murder all the masters infected by the plague. When you kill the sith lord the you get 300 dark side points since you caused death and suffering on a massive scale.

 

Why do you think majority of dark side options is killing people, torture and causing suffering? Dark side users draw power from these things. The sith warrior even says to jaesa when she kills nomen karr to let the guilt and the resentment fuel her power.

 

If you could use positive emotions to fuel the dark side that would simply make the light side redundant.

Edited April 29, 2012 by lokdron

[Captain_Zone]

Not since the time before the First Great Schism has anyone found the perfect balance point between Light and Dark.

 

The Je'Daii were practitioners of both Light and Dark, except they didn't see it that way. They saw the Force as all encompassing and accepted both Light and Dark aspects equally.

 

It's a razer's edge to walk for those that are able to find the perfect balance.

[lokdron]

Captain the problem I having is that velaran is saying that you can fuel the dark side with positive emotions.

[Rhadamanthine]

This Sith Code is pretty clear on this: Always take the easiest and most expedient path to power, and always oppose the Jedi Order. Hate and anger are the fastest way to gain power in the Force, and positive emotions are too similar to the ideals of the Jedi for the vast majority of Sith to use.

 

So yes.

 

Kel'eth Ur (guy from the door sealing quest in the Dark Temple) was killed by Vitiate for being one Sith Lord who actually thought to tread off the beaten path. Remember what he talks about, if you got to Dark Temple and did that quest anyway.

 

 

He talks about abandoning passion for serenity and peace, which makes Lord Alaric freak out when you bring the teachings back to him. If being happy and joyous worked too he probably would've mentioned it, it is kind of logical that something that close to home (emotion as opposed to being serene, even if it's positive emotion) would be something he'd hit up on his 'alternative explorations'.

 

 

But Occam's razor applies just as well, and really if we haven't heard any stories at all (I sure don't remember them) of DS users finding out nice emotions worked for their powers, it probably means it doesn't work that way. There are a few other Dark Side factions in the EU, and iirc they're all pretty much jerks who use some degree of classical Dark Side stuff for what they do.

Edited April 29, 2012 by Rhadamanthine

[Captain_Zone]

Captain the problem I having is that velaran is saying that you can fuel the dark side with positive emotions.

 

Well, Revan believed, and I agree with him, that positive emotions can strengthen the bond to the Light. Also, I believe that anger and even hatred have their place, since anger at injustice is motivation to act against injustice.

 

I run my Knight as a vigilante. If I believe a fallen Jedi can be redeemed, I'll go with that. But if a Sith Lord comes up starting crap, I'm gonna put him in the ground. No "taking him prisoner" after he's helpless. Why burden the taxpayers? Just execute him and be done with it. My Knight's philosophy is: "Some guys just need killin'."

 

In fact, the only Sith I spared was Lord Praven, since he was cool, and was only there because Angral lied to him.

[Clonedzero]

i dont think anyone could master both sides, i do think people can tap into both sides. i also think it happens more times than either side realizes.

 

jedi while being all about inner peace and control over their emotions, still have emotions. i'm positive that jedi often get angry in battle. i mean how could you not? so they might subconsciously tap into the darkside while fighting, not alot mind you, but alittle bit

 

i also find it hard to believe that a sith just out on a normal sunday morning stroll perfectly calm and has nothing to be angry at the moment at. then see's a rock he wants to move with the force suddenly gets really mad to power his mojo? seems a bit goofy "GOD IM SO MAD AT THIS ROCK!!!!!!!"

 

maybe im wrong, but i dont think either side is as "one-sided" as they come off as.

[Amien]

Try fighting Revan in the foundry flashpoint if you're character is imperial you'll see if it's possible or not

 

Actually

he starts LS (I guess) and then he switches to DS and then it's all Lightning fingers and jazz hands from there!

 

[Captain_Zone]

Ok, Kyle Katarn mastered both.

 

Yeah yeah. I've heard the argument before about Luke telling Ben that whole "We walk in the light or we fall" line. But then, the argument can be made that "Just because a character says it, doesn't mean it's true."

 

Just because Luke couldn't handle it, doesn't mean Kyle couldn't. He used Force Lightning on a regular basis as a LS Jedi Knight and Master. He went with what was practical. Lightning does a LOT of DAMAGE. Hmmmm. Why not use it?

 

Why do the Jedi seem less powerful than the Sith? Because they restrain their emotions and basically ASK the Force to do something. If the Force says "Not today. Handle it yourself", you get a Qui-Gon Jinn/Darth Maul scenario. Maul pimpsmacked the Force upside the head and he won. Yes, it's a crude analogy, but it makes sense.

[blooddodo]

Ok, Kyle Katarn mastered both.

 

Yeah yeah. I've heard the argument before about Luke telling Ben that whole "We walk in the light or we fall" line. But then, the argument can be made that "Just because a character says it, doesn't mean it's true."

 

Just because Luke couldn't handle it, doesn't mean Kyle couldn't. He used Force Lightning on a regular basis as a LS Jedi Knight and Master. He went with what was practical. Lightning does a LOT of DAMAGE. Hmmmm. Why not use it?

And then he taught it to Jaden and see what happens with him after the events of the game. Sure Kyle seems unfazed, but he's an exception and definitely not a rule.

Edited April 29, 2012 by blooddodo

[Rayla_Felana]

This Sith Code is pretty clear on this: Always take the easiest and most expedient path to power, and always oppose the Jedi Order. Hate and anger are the fastest way to gain power in the Force, and positive emotions are too similar to the ideals of the Jedi for the vast majority of Sith to use.

 

So yes.

 

 

 

1. See above reply: Negative emotions are easier and faster. Most Sith have no reason to take a more difficult path.

 

2. "There is no emotion, there is the Force." Even if the Jedi don't expressly forbid emotions, they discourage them from the moment a youngling enters the Temple.

 

3. It's been said before: Bane isn't infallible.

 

4. Of course they died. How could anybody switch from one method of using the Force to a completely different, foreign method, moments after they've lost the will to live?

 

 

Edit:

 

 

 

He seemed to be both sides of the Force, pretty damn well, at the exact same time, in his fight with the Emperor in the Revan novel.

 

1.You are arguing that just because we haven't seen a Sith or Dark Sider use Positive emotions to fuel his power, doesn't mean it can't be done, when we have evidence from some of the most intelligent Sith that using them doesn't work, your argument is Arnem Ixem and nihilistic at best.

 

2.Revan wasn't using both sides of the force, he was achieving oneness with the Force in that particular scene, go play the foundry, his buffs switch from the Light Side then to the Dark Side of the Force and he switches to lightning, etc...