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Is it possible to master both the light side and dark side at the same time?


Xanikk

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I don't see why it would be impossible to use both the Dark Side and the Light Side. After all, if you're a Jedi who has learned the ability to Force Heal, you wouldn't forget how to heal just because you fall to the Dark Side. Then if you learn Force Lightning after having fallen, then come back to the Light, you wouldn't suddenly forget how to use Force Lightning.

However, I do think it would be impossible to learn Force Lighting and Force Healing at the same time, that would require you to be calm and emotional at the same time. I do think you can learn one then the other (master the Dark Side then master the Light or vice-versa). I also think it would be impossible to wield both the Dark and the Light at the same time; as in healing someone while shooting lightning at another person. You would have to build up your anger to shoot the lightning, then calm yourself down to heal.

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*sigh*

 

Why stop to consider something that is impossible? There is Light and Dark. There is no Gray.

 

That is like saying, literally:

 

"Consider the possibility that science is not "100% totally correct" - what if it is wrong? What if biologists are wrong too? What if we don't need to breathe?"

 

Sure... We can discuss it... But we know that we need to breathe. We know that we die if we don't. We know the same about the Light and Dark of the Force. it is there, period, end of discussion.

 

Except, y'know... Scientists are totally open to revising their view on things if their established laws don't fit the facts, or some new evidence comes along to challenge them. That is kind of what science is all about.

 

Yet, despite the fact that we've introduced a number of facts and some evidence contrary to George's law, you're stubbornly sticking to it and refusing to acknowledge possible alternatives that DO fit the new facts and evidence.

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Except, y'know... Scientists are totally open to revising their view on things if their established laws don't fit the facts, or some new evidence comes along to challenge them. That is kind of what science is all about.

 

Yet, despite the fact that we've introduced a number of facts and some evidence contrary to George's law, you're stubbornly sticking to it and refusing to acknowledge possible alternatives that DO fit the new facts and evidence.

 

So tell us these alternatives.

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To those saying this topic isn't up for debate, there are 22 pages of debate so clearly it is.

I agree with the 'stuff George Lucas' people. He's revised things before, he might do again, and more to the point:

The man had a brilliant idea, an idea that sparked many books, tv series, games and heated debates over things that don't actually exist, and that is fantastic.

BUT Lucas created a Universe, a Universe with its own technology, quirks, philosophical ideas and religions. You canon fans surely don't him to be solely responsible for every detail of that universe do you?

He made a framework, filling in every individual detail of a Universe is not just beyond him (and beyond anything less than the millions of fans that enjoy trying) it's selfish.

Through Canon we've seen pacifist Mandolorians (seriously?!), the introduction of gay relationships and the incredibly repetative 'republic rebuilt, empire returns, republic rebuilt, empire returns' (Seriously Emporer, Luke beats you every time and you're immortal, just wait for him to die). We've also seen several non-canon books that are frankly better written and less ridiculous than some canon ones.

We've also seen gaping plot holes in the films. The man had a brilliant idea but he's not a god and canon isn't the be all and end all. According to Canon this conversation must have happened:

'So we have this clone army that was created without our knowledge, they obey every order they're given without question' 'That's fantastic, put them everywhere, base our entire defense around that army' 'Shall we check the orders that have been programmed into them? After all, the entire future of the republic rests on those orders' 'No, no, I'm sure it'll be fine'

 

I believe that's my point in the debate over whether or not this is a debate made. So, onto the force.

Doesn't the Sith code itself state that their power is driven by passion? Passions can be many things, not all of them negative emotions.

And I seem to remember reading this game does count as Canon. Well we have lightside sith that shoot lightning, an entire companion plotline based around lightside sith (one way or another) and the Voss, masters of not light or dark, but grey. There's room for a lot of expansion with the voss, but it seems they use the force when they need to, and how they need to, having given no thought to whether or not the action is selfless or selfish. They haven't all been corrupted by accessing the 'dark' elements of the force.

 

 

I'm just quoting you because i find it near criminal that people are ignoring that wonderful well though out post.

I guess you need to type the monicker Professor or Expert in your name and just say the same thing over and over with no thought to get attention or somehow make decisions or dismissals on the subject here.

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Just throwing this link out there, make of it what you will

 

Gray Jedi

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Gray_Jedi

 

That's the way I think about Grey Jedi. However, and I hate this as much as everyone else here who thinks Lucas should just butt the hell out, His Word Is Law, and he hates the idea of any sort of grey area. He claims he wrote Star Wars as a "good vs. evil" tale. Yet, he had grey characters IN the OT. Most notably, Han Solo.

 

Up until the most recent remake of the OT by Lucas, Han shot Greedo down in cold blood. Not something a "good" character would do. That scene served a purpose in showing the start of Han's journey from a self-absorbed drug runner for the Hutt Cartel into the hero he ultimately became in "Return of the Jedi". In "A New Hope", Han Solo was NOT a hero, except by circumstance with the Death Star rescue. At the end, when he returned to cover Luke during the trench run, that was when he really started to turn it around.

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That's the way I think about Grey Jedi. However, and I hate this as much as everyone else here who thinks Lucas should just butt the hell out, His Word Is Law, and he hates the idea of any sort of grey area. He claims he wrote Star Wars as a "good vs. evil" tale. Yet, he had grey characters IN the OT. Most notably, Han Solo.

 

Up until the most recent remake of the OT by Lucas, Han shot Greedo down in cold blood. Not something a "good" character would do. That scene served a purpose in showing the start of Han's journey from a self-absorbed drug runner for the Hutt Cartel into the hero he ultimately became in "Return of the Jedi". In "A New Hope", Han Solo was NOT a hero, except by circumstance with the Death Star rescue. At the end, when he returned to cover Luke during the trench run, that was when he really started to turn it around.

 

Han never was grey, Han was simply a negative character that eventually became a good guy. Never at one point was he both.

 

It's next to, if not completely impossible, to be both good and bad at the same time, George Lucas clearly emphasized the idea that Sith is bad, Jedi is good, you can't be both. You can be a light side Sith, or a Jedi that opposes the code, yet there is always a main attribute that you're defined by and it's that attribute which leaves no room for gray Jedi.

 

I think people would have a much better argument if they proclaimed that "gray" was someone who refused to be a part of the Jedi or Sith, but had a force affinity. That is gray, refusing to take a side and just being in commune with the force, yet so far, I don't think there has been such a person.

 

Take Revan for example, people always a yammering on that he was both Light side and Dark side, yet from what I've seen, he's never been both at once, he's capable of both, I suppose, yet in the end, you can't be both. Depending on the actions he chooses defines whether he's a Dark side or Light side, that's definitive.

 

Yeah, whatever. ._.

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Here's the question:

 

Is it possible to master both sides of the force without the darkside totally consuming you?

 

Like would it be possible to use both techniques to use the force: Focusing and clearing your mind of emotions AND using your emotions to harness the force just at different times: AKA dark side usage and light side usage.

 

Here's something you should consider: To master something, you should dedicate yourself to its practice.

 

Sure you could walk towards the fine lines of the two sides, but you could never achieve the mastery of both. I could only imagine that you use dark and light powers at different points in time when needed just like switching lightsaber forms depending on the situation. This has been observed in KOTOR I/II and in The Jedi Knight (JK Outcast, etc.) series, and Force Unleashed.

 

But with how you phrased your question and even quantified it, a mastery both sides would need commitment to both sides as well. When using dark powers, you would need to be fueled by your fear and anger as if you really meant it. And when you practice that continually to master it, then there is no more peace, but emotion. There is no serenity, there is passion. At this point, haven't you fallen to the dark side already?

 

TLDR, You can use both powers is possible to use both the dark and the light at different times without letting the dark consume you, but you can only master the dark side only if you are already corrupted by it.

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I think the main reason for this debate is mostly because people want to personify their own ideal use of the force and ignore any other precedent.

 

Jolee Bindo was a Gray Jedi but he didn't use the Dark Side, he simply disagreed with the Jedi Orders rules and teachings about Passion damning a person to the dark side. He never tried to walk the line between Light and Dark, Force wise he was VERY much Light Side his philosophy was just very heretical to the Jedi ways.

 

Everytime a Jedi has dabbled in the Dark Side they have almost always ended up quickly falling to its influence. Sith Consider the Dark Side to be Power Manifested, and Power Corrupts, Hence the Jedi's methods of patience and slow learning rather than a mad dash for the accumulation of Power.

Corruption of the Dark Side is insidious it happens in such a manner that you do not realize it.

 

Prime example despite the hate towards the prequel movies, Anakin Skywalker. After betraying Windu and becoming Sidious's new apprentice, Sidious stated "When the Jedi learn what has transpired here they will kill us along with all the senators."

 

With Anakin replying, "I agree the councils next move will be against the Senate." Despite the fact he should KNOW that the Council would never slaughter the Senators but the Dark Side's insidious hold has already started warping and twisting his perceptions to let him justify what he is doing.

 

The Dark Side changes you, once you start down its path at all even in a vain attempt to 'Master Both Sides in balance." You are no longer who you once were.

 

As Yoda said, "But beware the darkside, anger, fear, aggression. The Dark Side of the Force are they, easily they flow, quick to join you in a fight. If once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny, consume you it will, "

 

The Dark Side is very quick to lend you power in your time of need, and that power twists and corrupts you without you ever realizing it, what was once a dream of creating a utopia for all beings in the Galaxy quickly changes into the corrupt rule of a tyrant making everyone else serve his every whim.

 

Also on people that keep quoting Mace and his Vaapad.

"I created Vaapad to answer my weakness: it channels my own darkness into a weapon of the light."

―Mace Windu, to Obi-Wan Kenobi[s

Mace Windu didn't use Vaapad in an attempt to Master the darkside, he created it to turn his own Darkness into a weapon of the light side.

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I'm just quoting you because i find it near criminal that people are ignoring that wonderful well though out post.

I guess you need to type the monicker Professor or Expert in your name and just say the same thing over and over with no thought to get attention or somehow make decisions or dismissals on the subject here.

 

It is ignored because the second he "stuffs it" as far as Lucas is concerned he automatically becomes wrong. Arguing against the Word of Lucas in a Star Wars canon discussion is like basing an argument in the real world on the Earth being flat.

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Han never was grey, Han was simply a negative character that eventually became a good guy. Never at one point was he both.

 

It's next to, if not completely impossible, to be both good and bad at the same time, George Lucas clearly emphasized the idea that Sith is bad, Jedi is good, you can't be both. You can be a light side Sith, or a Jedi that opposes the code, yet there is always a main attribute that you're defined by and it's that attribute which leaves no room for gray Jedi.

 

I think people would have a much better argument if they proclaimed that "gray" was someone who refused to be a part of the Jedi or Sith, but had a force affinity. That is gray, refusing to take a side and just being in commune with the force, yet so far, I don't think there has been such a person.

 

Take Revan for example, people always a yammering on that he was both Light side and Dark side, yet from what I've seen, he's never been both at once, he's capable of both, I suppose, yet in the end, you can't be both. Depending on the actions he chooses defines whether he's a Dark side or Light side, that's definitive.

 

Yeah, whatever. ._.

 

Actually, if you look at the character of Han Solo very carefully, he was grey at the start. Just because he wasn't a Force User, doesn't mean he was any less grey. He was all about the money, and didn't care about either side one way or the other, except for a dislike of the Empire and contempt for the Rebels. He had deserted the Imperial Navy, yet did NOT hook up with the Rebel Alliance, as so many of his classmates had from the Academy. He went independent, instead. He saw the Alliance as a lost cause, and didn't believe they stood a chance until they blew up the Death Star. Like I said, when he came back and gave Luke some much needed cover fire, that was when he really started to move into the light side of the spectrum.

 

To put it in game terms, he got about +50 DS points for gunning down Greedo. And about +150 LS for making the decision to head back to the Death Star and see if he could help. Probably gained +50 affection with Chewie for that one, too. lol

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Not sure you folks could apply this to normal characters such as Han, being that he really isn't affected by the force to the extent of jedi/sith. ....Just sayin.

 

It's about neutrality in general with Han. One of the definitions of the Grey Jedi is that they were neutral in their beliefs. Neutrality doesn't just apply to Force users, though. In fact, it's easier to apply neutrality to non-Force sensitives.

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It is ignored because the second he "stuffs it" as far as Lucas is concerned he automatically becomes wrong. Arguing against the Word of Lucas in a Star Wars canon discussion is like basing an argument in the real world on the Earth being flat.

 

Aside from the fact that saying, "The Force doesn't care about intent, only action," and following it up with "Killing is okay, but murder isn't," is like saying the world is round while you're sailing a boat off the edge. It's a contradiction. And no, retreating to "Well Lucas said it so it's obviously true," doesn't resolve the contradiction. It just ignores its existence.

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It's about neutrality in general with Han. One of the definitions of the Grey Jedi is that they were neutral in their beliefs. Neutrality doesn't just apply to Force users, though. In fact, it's easier to apply neutrality to non-Force sensitives.

 

Yes but this is about mastering both sides of the force, which Han can't really do.

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I was using Han as an example of how George likes to contradict himself.

 

Not seeing how its a contradiction, till up until the end of the movie he is still smug, full of himself, and just cares about the money. He seems pretty much the same, but another time for this shall not derail thread.

Edited by Wolfninjajedi
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Not seeing how its a contradiction, till up until the end of the movie he is still smug, full of himself, and just cares about the money. He seems pretty much the same, but another time for this shall not derail thread.

 

Ok, so back to the Topic. The Grey Jedi don't master both sides. They walk the line between them. At least, until George Lucas heard about it....

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Well, the Je'daii were Force masters who walked the path of neutrality - and managed to redeem 99% of all those who grew too dark... and caught it a lot earlier than the Jedi. They also did not allow people to grow to light because doing so would have made the planet uninhabitable... But they did master many Force techniques. I guess we were the Masters of neutrality, LOL!
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Well, the Je'daii were Force masters who walked the path of neutrality - and managed to redeem 99% of all those who grew too dark... and caught it a lot earlier than the Jedi. They also did not allow people to grow to light because doing so would have made the planet uninhabitable... But they did master many Force techniques. I guess we were the Masters of neutrality, LOL!

 

No. The Je'daii did what they did out of a lack of understanding of the Force. For example, the Jedi on Tython now are of the vast majority Light Sided. There are no Force storms as there were when the Je'daii were there.

 

I theorize that the reason the planet was being destroyed under the Je'daii was because of their attempt to walk the middle. Such a thing is too dangerous and inevitably leads to destruction... As it did with the Je'daii themselves.

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