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Is it possible to master both the light side and dark side at the same time?


Xanikk

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You cannot access the dark side with positive emotions as walsh said it simply does not work that way and trying to use both dark and light simply makes it easier for the dark side to corrupt you. Since many jedi have fallen to the dark side when trying to use both.

 

I mean in the jedi knight games kyle says you can learn dark side powers but soon as you start investing into it luke and kyle start freaking out after every set of missions since the dark side can corrupt you the more you use the dark side force powers.

 

I really liked bastilia explanation of how the dark side works if you are dark side in kotor. The closer you are to the dark side the dark side pretty much starts nudging/ begging you to give in its like a predator waiting for you to mess up so it can take hold of you and corrupt you. Or simply give in to it.

 

Plus grey jedi does not = using both light and dark they are light side. Jolee was light side oh and kriea from kotor 2 was dark side she was not grey she was simply hiding her true alignment.

Edited by lokdron
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You cannot access the dark side with positive emotions as walsh said it simply does not work that way and trying to use both dark and light simply makes it easier for the dark side to corrupt you. Since many jedi have fallen to the dark side when trying to use both.

 

According to Keleth'Ur (or at least his hologram) the Sith channel the Force through the use of strong emotions, the chief of which would be fear and anger. This implies it is possible to use any strong emotion to harness the Dark Side of the Force.

 

However this doesn't explain why so many Sith rely on the negative emotions, the "evil" ones if you will. I can think of two reasons why the Sith so overwhelmingly favor dark and violent emotions.

 

1) The simply work the best and provide the best results - sure you can use love to throw Force Lightning, but it isn't as strong or as powerful as compared to when you do it when filled with a murderous rage to want to see your enemy dead and suffering.

 

2) The other emotions may work equally as well, but require a much more intensive level of focus and discipline - they require more work to achieve the same result. Given how easy it would be to hate your enemy in battle or fear for your own life, it becomes doubly easier to use those emotions instead of more benevolent ones.

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Alright, I want everyone to read this graph. Got it? Good. Now, if you're willing to abide by it, so am I. :)

 

As for the actual question, my debaters, I want you to take a coin, or cut a piece of paper in the shape of a coin. Now, without using a mirror, I want you to look at both sides of the coin with ONE eye AT THE SAME EXACT TIME. That means close one eye, line it up directly with the middle of said eye, and look at BOTH sides fully at the same time.

 

Whether you can or can't is the answer to your question. :)

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I dont know if this is necroposting or not but here goes.

 

1. The Dark Side and The Light

There is no light side of the force, there's the Force, and The Dark side. The "Light" is just using the force without emotion, from a state of calm and serenity. It's safer, it's more clean and pure. But it takes a much longer time to become anywhere near as powerful as a Sith Lord becomes with it, but flashy displays of incredible power are not something Jedi regulary do as they feel it's vain, and arrogant of them. And they shy away from using the Force for trivial things.

The Dark Side is simply using passion instead, whatever that passion may be, but it must match your intentions. The kind of emotion is not as important as their intention. For instance, to use the Force to hurt someone using the dark side you must be angry, you must want to hurt them. , To heal someone you must want them to live, you must be passionate about the desire to keep them alive. Love can be a motivation in this but it's a different kind of love than what most people think of. A Sick kind of obsessed love.

 

a good example of this, is Legacy, in which Cade Skywalker forces people close to him back to life and heals them with the Force, and while he's generally using powerful positive emotions most of the time, because it's a selfish act, and he's doing it more because of an obsessive guilt or unwillingness to let go, he forces his will upon the Force.

 

That is first and foremost the single most telling trait of the Dark Side, and the most clear difference in philosophy, it's not so much emotion but kinds of passion. Jedi prefer to serve, and do the will of The Force, they are passive in this, and move with it, calmly, from a position of serenity. Sith are more heated, motivated and fueled by passion rather than duty, and impose their will upon The Force and try to control it more. That's the difference.

So, no,it is not possible to master both sides at the 'same time' but it is possible to have mastered both in a life and understand both philosophies, but to be able to use them both at once is contradictory and would ultimately corrupt someone to the Dark side.

 

For instance ,Darth Traya was a Jedi Master, then a Dark Lord of the Sith, and she understood both paths perfectly and hated them both. Revan saw both sides of it, and he also, turned from both, trying to find something different but ultimately? He failed. Luke Skywalker saw both sides, so did Jacen Solo, so did Darth Krayt, so did numerous Others, but the vast Majority of individuals who could claim had mastered both sides, fell to one or the other and almost all of them ultimately to the dark side.

 

The Potentium theory states, however that there is no dark or light but different methods of the same thing, possibly so but ultimately the denial of The Dark Side's existence, saying it's only in the individual is dangerous. Attempting to use passion tempered with serenity is still using passion, and such an emotional appeal will eventually cause someone to give into their emotions and passions, and that is a way of starting along the dark side.

 

Ultimately, The Light side is the safer option, and the more reliable one, but the Dark side is stronger, and more powerful on the individual level, and is much quicker, but it corrupts the same way running an engine too hot damages it, or burning a candle twice as hot burns half as long. It physically corrupts and damages the mind, body and soul because they can't handle the level of power it produces, and it is pretty unnatural.

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Forgive me if i've missed your post elaborating on why not, but why not?

 

Why can't positive emotions be used with the Dark Side? Like I said, the Jedi reject emotion, so clearly the Light Side doesn't use positive emotions. If the Dark Side doesn't use them, then what? Are they just not used? That doesn't make any sense.

 

There are a number of reasons for this.

 

The first being that we have never seen it. The second being every time a Sith has tried this line on a Jedi it has one hundred percent without fail lead to the Jedi falling to the Dark Side. This has also always been revealed to be the entire plan after the fact.

 

The second being that George Lucas designed the Dark Side and the Light Side to be a Yin and Yang situation. One is good, one is bad. Lucas never intended it to be some kind of "shades of gray" situation, and thus going on that knowledge we can assume that any argument that requires shades of gray to be present are false.

 

The third part is that you don't understand the Jedi. The Jedi do not seek to be robots. They don't reject emotions. What the Jedi reject is allowing emotions to control one's behavior and influence one's actions. The Jedi allow emotions, and always have, so long as those emotions don't interfere with their mission. When those emotions interfere a Jedi is supposed to be able to detach so that they can act calmly and rationally.

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This is often a hotly debated topic among RPers.

 

There exist in the EU several groups which claim and attempt to "walk the line" between Light and Dark, accepting power from both. Gray Jedi and Jensaari to name a few.... Dathomiri WItches have no concept of Light or Dark as they did not learn the Force as the Force, though they are devoutly "Light"

 

Problems are usually that story characters usually end up falling to the Dark Side. Does that mean that it is impossible? No. Does that mean that there can't exist a person so selfless as to exist on both levels? No

 

Does it mean that someone who does this will be as strong as someone who is only Light, or only Dark? Probably Not.

 

Both sides are natural because they exist in what nature is. Both sides appeal to particular and separate emotions.

Like it or not the Force tends to polarize to one end or another. This does not mean that you cannot hold two magnets in limbo, and keep them from sticking.

We've seen tons of Jedi, including Luke Skywalker fall to the Dark Side and come back.

 

Too often we simply view (and games don't help this) the force via powers. Light is Force Shield and Force Protect. Neutral is Force Jump. Dark is Force Lightning.

 

I feel like "riding the line" as it were would be more of a test of internal strength. A protest. Like a self-immolating monk. If you are floating between dark and light you are searching, as anyone with resolve would inevitably fall to a side.

Edited by Polyneux
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Theoretically, I think it's possible.;) In my opinion, it can be some Light Sith/'Dark Jedi (moreless) :cool:

 

Why? It's entirely problem of self-control, if you are Force user. Jedi imagination about 'control' is abandon them, cause it's just simpler than try to embrace both sides. :( Sith code is about freedom, and darkness is simply more tempting than some codexes of compassion or honor.

 

I can imagine that some Sith mastered self-control, as much as Jedi, considered as 'grey' or 'fallen' (in Jedi Knight story there, you can meet pureblood Sith, what told you - only own honor is his passion).

Darth Tyranus (Count Dooku) also said, that compassion can be sometimes useful - and he was really merciful in moments when slaughter was totally useless for him - so 'control' is actually more important for the Sith than for Jedi, cause for plans about power and to find servants you need clear reasonable mind. :D

 

Even in times of romance or rage in battle, drawing from the Dark Side, this 'light sith/dark jedi' can has still control in moments, when pure dark siders would usually slaughtered everyone, still thinking clearly.

 

There is only question, if this person would capable heal you and then slaughtered some squad by finger lightnings. But we all know, that is totally possible :) Even without SWTOR, there existed some Jedi who made lightnings by power of the light side :p

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that really depends if you mean in the same moment or to have mastery of the force in both forms. at the same moment no you cant be angry and completely calm at the same time, but you can have the ability to channel your use of the force with serenity and peace, as well as being able to channel the force with passion. the hard part is staying neutral in your choices because it is easy to be consumed by emotion, so in my opinion one must master a solid core of inner peace in the light side before mastering the dark side
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Yes. But to do so would require a certain amount of creativity. One: Remain calm. You CANNOT be upset AT ALL. You must be Jedi Master calm.

Two: Find a cold passion. Passion for science, passion for learning, passion for knowledge. Do NOT use a hot passion. It is far too likely to upset your balance.

Three: Imagine that calm like a bubble surrounding you. It is as thin as an egg shell but incredibly strong. The corruption cannot reach you when you are calm and at peace.

Four: Reach out to the Dark Side through the passion found in 2.

Five: Draw the Dark Side through your shield of calm like flour through a sieve, leaving the corruption outside and only the power itself coming through.

Six: The moment you sense your concentration slipping, your balance shifting, release the Force.

Seven: Repeat when balanced once more.

 

I figure this is how the Je'daii Order used the Force, but having never read that comic I can't be certain. In theory this should work though.

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Yes. But to do so would require a certain amount of creativity. One: Remain calm. You CANNOT be upset AT ALL. You must be Jedi Master calm.

Two: Find a cold passion. Passion for science, passion for learning, passion for knowledge. Do NOT use a hot passion. It is far too likely to upset your balance.

Three: Imagine that calm like a bubble surrounding you. It is as thin as an egg shell but incredibly strong. The corruption cannot reach you when you are calm and at peace.

Four: Reach out to the Dark Side through the passion found in 2.

Five: Draw the Dark Side through your shield of calm like flour through a sieve, leaving the corruption outside and only the power itself coming through.

Six: The moment you sense your concentration slipping, your balance shifting, release the Force.

Seven: Repeat when balanced once more.

 

I figure this is how the Je'daii Order used the Force, but having never read that comic I can't be certain. In theory this should work though.

 

Nope. That won't work. Once you start using the Dark Side it starts corrupting you, the trick is that you won't realize it is corrupting you. Mainly this would work for a short time, but then your concentration would start slipping and you wouldn't realize it was slipping. You can't filter the corruption of the Dark Side out completely or, likely, at all.

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In theory, it could be possible. IF the Jedi has a strong enough will. Or IF the Sith has a strong enough will. If they can control their emotions and use them without suppressing them, they might be able to. So far, Kyle Katarn and Revan (Power of the Beard) have come the closest.
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That's the reason it has to be a 'cool' passion. All the Sith we see use 'hot' passions. Anger, fear, etc. I've yet to see anyone trying to use the Dark Side when perfectly calm through something like a passion for science. The only real issue with corruption is that you have to be very aware. If something happens to crack your shell, if even for a moment you lose your sense of equilibrium you lose yourself.* On ancient Tython if this happened you got sent to Bogan to meditate on Ashla. Oddly enough, despite using both sides of the Living Force, the ancient Tythonians did not have a real problem with Dark Siders until the creation of the Jedi order - which focused solely on the light.

 

(*Yes, I believe that is what happened to Revan. I also believe the man's mind is a mess, his personality is fracturing and the Jedi are idiots for not realizing... Mutters something about DID.)

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In theory, it could be possible. IF the Jedi has a strong enough will. Or IF the Sith has a strong enough will. If they can control their emotions and use them without suppressing them, they might be able to. So far, Kyle Katarn and Revan (Power of the Beard) have come the closest.

 

No.

 

None of this "If the Jedi has a strong enough will."

 

Will doesn't matter. You use the Dark Side you let it in and it changes you, willpower or not. Period. It cannot be done.

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This is often a hotly debated topic among RPers.

 

There exist in the EU several groups which claim and attempt to "walk the line" between Light and Dark, accepting power from both. Gray Jedi and Jensaari to name a few.... Dathomiri WItches have no concept of Light or Dark as they did not learn the Force as the Force, though they are devoutly "Light"

 

Problems are usually that story characters usually end up falling to the Dark Side. Does that mean that it is impossible? No. Does that mean that there can't exist a person so selfless as to exist on both levels? No

 

Does it mean that someone who does this will be as strong as someone who is only Light, or only Dark? Probably Not.

 

Both sides are natural because they exist in what nature is. Both sides appeal to particular and separate emotions.

Like it or not the Force tends to polarize to one end or another. This does not mean that you cannot hold two magnets in limbo, and keep them from sticking.

We've seen tons of Jedi, including Luke Skywalker fall to the Dark Side and come back.

 

Too often we simply view (and games don't help this) the force via powers. Light is Force Shield and Force Protect. Neutral is Force Jump. Dark is Force Lightning.

 

I feel like "riding the line" as it were would be more of a test of internal strength. A protest. Like a self-immolating monk. If you are floating between dark and light you are searching, as anyone with resolve would inevitably fall to a side.

 

The Dathomir witches don't "walk the line" they have rules against using the Dark Side and these are clearly outlined in the book the Witches first appeared in known as the "Courtship of Princess Leia" the only other group who tried this was the Potentium followers and we know what happened to them... They all went insane.

 

In the Power of the Jedi sourcebook it straight out says the belief that there is no light side and no dark side is in fact wrong. That is out of canon confirmation that you cannot do it.

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Yes. But to do so would require a certain amount of creativity. One: Remain calm. You CANNOT be upset AT ALL. You must be Jedi Master calm.

Two: Find a cold passion. Passion for science, passion for learning, passion for knowledge. Do NOT use a hot passion. It is far too likely to upset your balance.

Three: Imagine that calm like a bubble surrounding you. It is as thin as an egg shell but incredibly strong. The corruption cannot reach you when you are calm and at peace.

Four: Reach out to the Dark Side through the passion found in 2.

Five: Draw the Dark Side through your shield of calm like flour through a sieve, leaving the corruption outside and only the power itself coming through.

Six: The moment you sense your concentration slipping, your balance shifting, release the Force.

Seven: Repeat when balanced once more.

 

I figure this is how the Je'daii Order used the Force, but having never read that comic I can't be certain. In theory this should work though.

 

I don't think what you call "cold passions" are really Dark Side. Not all passions are dark side, only anger, hatred, fear etc. So I doubt you can reach the dark side through "cold passions".

 

passion for science, passion for knowledge, passion for learning... all these should work well no matter if you are a Jedi explorer, a Sith archeologist or a non-Force using scientist. They will motivate you to find what you are searching for, but itself they don't help you to get to the dark side of the force.

 

lets see:

 

One: You are calm.

Two: You concentrate on your passion for learning.

Three: You imagine that calm like a bubble around you.

Four: With the passion for learning you carefully reach out for the dark side.

Five: You feel a little of the dark side. Only a small taste. It feels interesting.

Six: You try to draw the dark side through your shield of calm. You remain calm, and you feel more of it. You feel power, anger, hatred and fear. Every one of those in a very calm, cold, controlled way.

Seven: You like this feeling. It doesn't feel pleasent, but it has so much power in it. So you enjoy it for a little while.

Eight: You release it.

 

Now, in a few days, you will want to try it again. For study, of course. And, a little, because you enjoy it. So you spend a little more time and let a little more of the dark side into your bubble.

 

I think you know where this leads. You will become abdicted to it and finally the dark side will control you. Yes, diciplined minds may be able to stop somewhere on the way. But then you have resisted the dark side, you didn't master it. And every time you try it, it will be harder to resist.

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And what about imperial knights way?

 

Theyre lightsiders, but they still allowing some emotions through harder control :cool: Control, not abandon them completely.

 

The Imperial Knights were trained in many of the same philosophies and techniques as the Jedi, but differed markedly in their credos and method. The Imperial Knights viewed the Force as a tool–a powerful one to be respected, but not one that they spent time contemplating and meditating on. They knew the dangers of falling to the dark side, and believed that the Force could not be used out of anger or selfishness. Managing one's emotions and controlling one's fear in the face of adversity was a paramount aspect of Imperial Knight ideology. The strict mental discipline and obedience to orders that was part of their training made Imperial Knights less susceptible to the strong emotions that would draw students of the Jedi over to the dark side.[14] Despite not drawing on the dark side, the Imperial Knights were said to not strictly follow the light side either, obeying the orders of the Emperor before anything else.
Edited by Vlad_Dracul_
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No.

 

None of this "If the Jedi has a strong enough will."

 

Will doesn't matter. You use the Dark Side you let it in and it changes you, willpower or not. Period. It cannot be done.

 

Oh, I just realized something about that quote in your sig. "Just because a character says it, doesn't make it true."

 

Yes, that includes The Grandmaster himself.

 

Contrary to popular belief, the world, even in Star Wars, isn't black and white. There are many shades of grey.

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The balance didn't really shift. Tython was always perfectly balanced. It was the only way to make the planet inhabitable. If you turned Dark you got sent to Bogan to meditate on Ashla. 9 times out of 10 this worked. If you became too Light you got sent to Ashla to meditate on Bogan. This also worked. Tython became unbalanced after it was discovered by the Rakatan Infinite Empire. After this a splinter group Je'daii decided that only Ashla was true and began the Jedi Order. Shortly thereafter one of the Order's founders, Rajivari, changed his mind and decided Bogan was stronger. This was the start of the Force Wars. Soooo.... No REAL problems until the decision to only study ONE side of the Force.

 

Oh, and Caedus fell for many reasons. By the time he fell he no longer believed that there was no Light and Dark. Further, the Unifying Force does exist (remember the Father?) However Luke realized that not everyone could handle this, and that the Jedi were continuing to use the Living Force, both the Dark and Light aspects. The Jedi were not balanced though, and the polarization was the problem.

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Oh, I just realized something about that quote in your sig. "Just because a character says it, doesn't make it true."

 

Yes, that includes The Grandmaster himself.

 

Contrary to popular belief, the world, even in Star Wars, isn't black and white. There are many shades of grey.

 

No, it isn't true because Luke Skywalker said it. It is true because it is true. There are no shades of gray as far as this goes.

 

The Force is Light and Dark. There is no "not so dark" and every comment out of universe we have ever seen confirms that there is no gray area.

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