Kthx Posted April 27, 2012 Share Posted April 27, 2012 (edited) Head on over to EVE Online and take a look at how their galactic market is set up. Look at how long someone can put something up there for sale. Then ask yourselves "Why did we make people put down a deposit and put a time limit of only two days on selling items?". Then fix your blasted market so economic "exploits" are no longer necessary to make credits. I hope you are not somehow suggesting that the economy in EVE Online features less exploiting than SWTOR does. If there was ever a game where cheating, scams, thievery, backstabbery, and betrayals are all but encouraged, EVE Online is it. Edited April 27, 2012 by Kthx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuckShotSchell Posted April 27, 2012 Share Posted April 27, 2012 I do care, it just does not affect me... and the exploit has been patched today. It does not seem like care. You keep pointing out that it does not effect you. I guess you never planned to use the GTN or buy/trade with another player then because it would effect that. Also "can't believe i have to point this out" if the system becomes so overwhelmed with cheaters and the real players leave there is no.reason for BW and lucas arts to maintain the servers or development of the game and they take it down. Now it has effected you because you cant play......doh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kthx Posted April 27, 2012 Share Posted April 27, 2012 I'm just saying it does not affect me, how does it affect you if someone else has 750mil? I should have been clearer: I am reacting to your statement "if the game lets you exploit it, then go for it, it is not cheating." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Zone Posted April 27, 2012 Share Posted April 27, 2012 I hope you are not somehow suggesting that the economy in EVE Online features less exploiting than SWTOR does. If there was ever a game where cheating, scams, thievery, backstabbery, and betrayals are all but encouraged, EVE Online is it. I'm not talking about the Jita scammers that spam local. I'm talking about the actual mechanics of the market itself. NO deposit required to put something up on it. It simply takes a percentage of the profits, based on price. That, and you can put stuff up there for months if you want to. Granted, I don't see the need in TOR for THAT long a timeframe, but it would be nice to not have to check it every day or every couple days. I'd say no more than two weeks maximum in TOR for having something up on Market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monave Posted April 27, 2012 Share Posted April 27, 2012 (edited) What I cant work out is why they feel the need to do it.. so you gain a 1 off victory and get your WZ gift from the Mission box... WOOWEEEEE.. you still in the Wz as long as everyone else, your still getting comms and credits like everyone else.... so its just down to that individuals own personal nature, likely being a similar trait to things they do in RL I would guess. I think reading some of the threads here sheds some light on the mentality of these cheating little turds: It's incredible how quickly these hackers adapt...like freaking cockroaches... If you read through, the only reason some of them wouldn't cheat is because they would be banned. They would cheat and hack as much as they could get away with and apparently NONE of them feel that it is wrong. I hope BW monitors all these hack/cheat sites to stay one step ahead of the cheaters and AGGRESSIVELY punishes such accounts with a premaban. In the long run, getting rid of the cheaters will make the game healthier even if you lose a few accounts now. BW make these little pieces of crap pay! Edited April 27, 2012 by Parali info about how to find hacking instructions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monave Posted April 27, 2012 Share Posted April 27, 2012 You Cheat You Die! I corrected this for you. No need to thank me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monave Posted April 27, 2012 Share Posted April 27, 2012 To my mind I'm actually more concerned about the mention of speed hacks and teleporting than I am about the economical exploit, and I say that despite relying on the GTN more than most. If speed hacks, teleporting and similar flagrant violations of the game ruleset are even possible there are serious design flaws in the game's server/client code. They are not just possible but seemed to be utilized by too many players and BW needs to aggressively punish these pieces of scum. Read my previous post and you can Google and see what's up for yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordbishopX Posted April 27, 2012 Share Posted April 27, 2012 starting countdown til thread shutdown T minus 10........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keta Posted April 27, 2012 Share Posted April 27, 2012 It does not affect me if someone else has 750 million credits, if the game lets you exploit it, then go for it. It is not cheating, cheating is generally used for the breaking of rules to gain advantage in a competitive situation, since I do not compete with anyone in the game, there is no harm done to me. As someone who has beta tested games for many many years and gotten to know some of the names behind those games I can tell you what I've been told repeatedly over the years about exploits. "Doing something once is an accident, doing it twice is testing, doing it three times is an exploit, it's cheating and deserves a ban." Report things via the in game report for bugs and let it be. Report cheaters and whether or not we personally believe that its harmful, wrong or cheating just be aware that BW and other players will have a very different attitude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tahana Posted April 27, 2012 Share Posted April 27, 2012 I'm not talking about the Jita scammers that spam local. I'm talking about the actual mechanics of the market itself. NO deposit required to put something up on it. It simply takes a percentage of the profits, based on price. That, and you can put stuff up there for months if you want to. Granted, I don't see the need in TOR for THAT long a timeframe, but it would be nice to not have to check it every day or every couple days. I'd say no more than two weeks maximum in TOR for having something up on Market. You do realize that the deposit you put up in this game is refunded in full if you don't sell the item.. right?? It only takes a percentage if the item sells.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drakkip Posted April 27, 2012 Share Posted April 27, 2012 (edited) Please , can someone tell us what exploit was that :)P Up, Up, down, down, left, right, left, right, B, A, select start, 10 million credits! oh wait... Edited April 27, 2012 by Drakkip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghettogenius Posted April 27, 2012 Share Posted April 27, 2012 I dont know about you guys but past experience in online games has shown me that mods dont exactly throw the book at exploiters in games where a subscription or pay model is being used. Its like expelling a problem child in high school, sure that seemingly solves the problem but now they dont get paid for that child being enrolled. In the past Ive seen players get temporary bans, then come back with all their duplicate items/gold or whatever. Like RL I dont really have much faith in the justice system I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spuck Posted April 27, 2012 Share Posted April 27, 2012 I have not experienced an exploit personally, with the exception of noticing what "seemed" to be speedhacks in huttball. Exploits suck. But apparently they never suck enough to tell the players what was actually being hacked/exploited. Why even tell anyone that you caught an exploit/hack if you refuse to say what it was in the first place. Or are you saying you caught something/someone just to get attention on your new "in game security system"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightHawke Posted April 27, 2012 Share Posted April 27, 2012 (edited) Up, Up, down, down, left, right, left, right, B, A, select start, 10 million credits! oh wait... ↑↑↓↓←→←→BA Contra for the win! Edited April 27, 2012 by NightHawke Darn memory getting old Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorghte Posted April 27, 2012 Share Posted April 27, 2012 I'm not talking about the Jita scammers that spam local. I'm talking about the actual mechanics of the market itself. NO deposit required to put something up on it. It simply takes a percentage of the profits, based on price. That, and you can put stuff up there for months if you want to. Granted, I don't see the need in TOR for THAT long a timeframe, but it would be nice to not have to check it every day or every couple days. I'd say no more than two weeks maximum in TOR for having something up on Market. Then people would just use the marketplace as extra bank space. I believe it was stated in a weekly Q&A that the deposit is specifically to prevent using the GTN as free bank space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monave Posted April 27, 2012 Share Posted April 27, 2012 You will never make 10 million that way. It is actually, Up, Down, Up, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, B, A, Select, Start. Contra for the win! Now I see what I was doing wrong... Thanks for that correction! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightHawke Posted April 27, 2012 Share Posted April 27, 2012 Now I see what I was doing wrong... Thanks for that correction! Wait... no, I am wrong.. I just wiki'd it (I know, I know) and it seems I am so old that I forgot it. Forgive meh!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monave Posted April 27, 2012 Share Posted April 27, 2012 I dont know about you guys but past experience in online games has shown me that mods dont exactly throw the book at exploiters in games where a subscription or pay model is being used. Its like expelling a problem child in high school, sure that seemingly solves the problem but now they dont get paid for that child being enrolled. In the past Ive seen players get temporary bans, then come back with all their duplicate items/gold or whatever. Like RL I dont really have much faith in the justice system I guess. I believe in the long run that they harm the game by not aggressively taking action. The majority of players do not cheat and as more realize that cheaters are not punished, the more leave the game, ultimately killing it. I hope BW looks at this in the long term and not the subs it will lose in the short term. BW, cut the cancer out now to save the body and do it before it's too late! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PalawaJoko Posted April 27, 2012 Share Posted April 27, 2012 (edited) I have not experienced an exploit personally, with the exception of noticing what "seemed" to be speedhacks in huttball. Exploits suck. But apparently they never suck enough to tell the players what was actually being hacked/exploited. Why even tell anyone that you caught an exploit/hack if you refuse to say what it was in the first place. Or are you saying you caught something/someone just to get attention on your new "in game security system"?What the exploit itself was is irrelevant. Thing is there was one and it's been fixed but the scars will stay. I.e GTN will change depending on how many abused the exploit in each server. Most active servers will get a big hit because chances are more people took an advantage of it. Also why you don't see people telling what the exploit was is because BW stated that it's against the rules. Edited April 27, 2012 by PalawaJoko Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightHawke Posted April 27, 2012 Share Posted April 27, 2012 I believe in the long run that they harm the game by not aggressively taking action. The majority of players do not cheat and as more realize that cheaters are not punished, the more leave the game, ultimately killing it. I hope BW looks at this in the long term and not the subs it will lose in the short term. BW, cut the cancer out now to save the body and do it before it's too late! This is why APB died. Basis for an outstanding game. A ton of ingenious things going on for the creative mind and shooter/driver alike. But the cheats got too be too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PalawaJoko Posted April 27, 2012 Share Posted April 27, 2012 This is why APB died. Basis for an outstanding game. A ton of ingenious things going on for the creative mind and shooter/driver alike. But the cheats got too be too much.Indeed APB's cheaters always created a new account once their previous one got blocked. It did not stop them. Cheaters are a plague. Unless you permanently block their access to a game, they will continue to cheat no matter what. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astarica Posted April 27, 2012 Share Posted April 27, 2012 Cheating is always exaggerated but that's why you have to make an example of people who cheat to counter this. In an informal study people found that 1/3 of all Diablo 1 players cheat, but ask anyone who actually played Diablo 1 and they'll probably tell you they're the only person in the world that didn't cheat in Diablo 1 (and 1/3 of them are lying). You certainly can't be faulted to think 99% of the people cheated in that game, even though it's pretty safe to say that this is not the case. The problem with Bioware is that they don't really make a big deal out of this. Most MMORPGs periodically have these announcement about how heads will roll for those who cheat. It's not clear if doing this stuff actually stops the cheating, but at least it gives players a piece of mind. Saying 193153 accounts have been banned for cheating at least sounds more reassuring than 'trust us, we're dealing with this problem'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monave Posted April 27, 2012 Share Posted April 27, 2012 Indeed APB's cheaters always created a new account once their previous one got blocked. It did not stop them. Cheaters are a plague. Unless you permanently block their access to a game, they will continue to cheat no matter what. If you are old enough to remember (and there seem to be many of us on SWTOR) that "Mole Hunt" game they used to have at the arcades in the old days (yes, even BEFORE video games) are what these cheating scumbags remind me of. You hit one with the mallet then another pops out, then another, and another, and whack, whack, whack...it never ends. I guess all BW can do is to try and monitor these sites closely to try and stay ahead of the cheaters and aggressively permaban all accounts that cheat. There will NEVER be a way to stop ALL the cheaters but their impact can be minimized drastically with aggressive action taken and vigilance by BW to stay on top of things. It would also help if BW educates the community to look for and aggressively report suspected cheaters. Get the community more involved because the player base itself is the best policing body BW can utilize. As I've said, the majority of the players do not cheat and generally frown upon such activity and will help crack down, especially if they are affected from said activities as well. I never knew what to look for in WZs regarding speed hacking and teleport hacks but now I know what they are and will report any and all players regardless of faction when I see it happening. When I first saw "weird" things, I thought it was because of my scrubby old computer being 'laggy' but now I see that cheating is actually happening in this game like all others... I guess I was naive to believe that cheating doesn't or can't happen in MMOs nowadays but sadly I see not much has really changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monave Posted April 27, 2012 Share Posted April 27, 2012 Cheating is always exaggerated but that's why you have to make an example of people who cheat to counter this. In an informal study people found that 1/3 of all Diablo 1 players cheat, but ask anyone who actually played Diablo 1 and they'll probably tell you they're the only person in the world that didn't cheat in Diablo 1 (and 1/3 of them are lying). You certainly can't be faulted to think 99% of the people cheated in that game, even though it's pretty safe to say that this is not the case. The problem with Bioware is that they don't really make a big deal out of this. Most MMORPGs periodically have these announcement about how heads will roll for those who cheat. It's not clear if doing this stuff actually stops the cheating, but at least it gives players a piece of mind. Saying 193153 accounts have been banned for cheating at least sounds more reassuring than 'trust us, we're dealing with this problem'. I completely agree. I think just the 'threat' of being banned helps curb this type of behavior but I guess there will always be a few who will try to no matter what is implemented. For me, just significantly thinning out the cheaters is the most I can hope for and expect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ekaikaforge Posted April 27, 2012 Share Posted April 27, 2012 Actually, PvP is messed up because about 6-8% of PvPers use client side exploits/hacks.. And we sit here having no idea whether or not our already fragile server "economy" has been flooded with an extra 5-10 billion credits at least? Where in the world do people pull these types of statistics from? Kinda silly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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