Single Player Raiding Endgame

[Frostvein]

That was the % of 50s that have tried OPs.

 

Do you have a source? Not to be rude but I'd love to see that. I was unaware they specified it.

[Ujest]

Massively Multiplayer Online... You know the rest.

 

 

Does not mean you have to group. It means that many people can be online at the same time in the same world playing the same game

[Daluu]

Probably their best move at this point. Only people that are truly enjoying themselves right now are the people playing alone.

[Anathar]

Maybe this is pure madness, but chaos is contagious. The endgame presents two possible paths that are alright for some, but not all. I understand that this is an MMO, but I enjoy the fusion of this multiplayer-singleplayer hybrid. Personal I want the option to do single player stuff at endgame that still rewards the pleasure centers of my brain. In my boredom I questioned what could be easy to implement for those who don't always wish to play nice with others. I would think it at least interesting to be able to bring all of your companions on endgame hard mode flashpoints. Playing as a group will general be more fun, but this would be a great convenience for those of us not ashamed of playing with ours selves.

 

i agree with this.

 

i rather enjoy playing with myself..*cough*.. erm..by myself

 

a star wars game doesnt make much sense with more than 6 people anyway...luke, leia, C3, R2, han, chewy. (didnt say obi because vader kills him early..so)

Edited March 12, 2012 by Anathar

[Tsillah]

I don't know why some people want to determine for other people how they should play a game.

 

There's a good number of flashpoints and operations but there is very little to do except dailies for solo play.

 

Legacy is coming and they want people to do more with their companions. Apparently it will be worth it to get your affection raised etc.

 

So, I would want there to be more to do for companions. Give us some quest chains and solo instances for you and a companion to do. Main goal: equip the characters and gain affection....and actually use your companions more.

 

Now, if you don't care about that and just want to get your rakkata gear and stuff in 2 weeks time, I am sure you will be able to. And there's another op with tier 2 gear coming.

 

But some people like to solo and have the social setting of an MMO and don't always want to do group stuff.

 

Me, I am 50/50 on this. I like solo stuff and I like grouping up for flashpoints and the occasional raid. I do the dailies for my implants and I got my alts. So I keep busy. Even got into crafting finally.

 

But yeah, I would like some endgame stuff that involves my companions. Quests to do with/for them etc.

 

Let's be honest. After leveling to 50 and giving one companion decent gear, the rest really doesn't matter anymore unless you're a completionist or just happen to have lots of tionese crystals lying around. But even then, there's no reason to do anything with your companions. That, they could do something about.

[Gleneagle]

... Reward should equal time/effort ...

 

If it takes just as much time and effort, why then shouldn't the rewards be equivalent?

Second, because it would require developers to spend too much creating just end game solo content.

 

You would rather they spend too much time creating group-only content? You have admitted a bias. Soloers would likely prefer the opposite.

 

Those who are so cooperative-dependent that they only want group content are less likely to stick to a solo-story game than soloists. That argues for dominantly solo content and group-optional material on the periphery.

[Drewser]

Do you have a source? Not to be rude but I'd love to see that. I was unaware they specified it.

 

I listened live at the guild summit but have not seen those vids posted yet.

 

Here is the best I can do:

 

http://www.darthhater.com/articles/swtor-news/19973-guild-summit-stream-live-blog/page-3

 

5th bullet point.

[Calimwulf]

We have multiple companions. In essence we have a our own 4 man heroic team ready to go. BW should let us take advantage of that.

[Drewser]

If it takes just as much time and effort, why then shouldn't the rewards be equivalent?

 

 

You would rather they spend too much time creating group-only content? You have admitted a bias. Soloers would likely prefer the opposite.

 

Those who are so cooperative-dependent that they only want group content are less likely to stick to a solo-story game than soloists. That argues for dominantly solo content and group-optional material on the periphery.

 

I don't have a bias, as I would play both. My point is groups will routinely repeat content to help each other get drops. This makes it more financially viable.

 

Their option for solo:

 

You do a long mission chain at least a few hours worth, at the end you may get gear or a couple tokens to put towards gear. (How much crying would ensue when players had that happen?) More importantly how often would they repeat it?

 

It is simply not possible to create enough solo content to keep players happy.

Edited March 12, 2012 by Drewser

[kaboro]

The same thing in every forum, solo haters using the same old cliches.

An mmo is a public place where grouping is a possibility and an option, just like in any public place.

 

If you log in to an mmo with the sole purpose of grouping, and you are not able to understand the purpose of an mmo game outside grouping...i think you have a problem.

 

An mmo that forces grouping is like a bar where you are not served if you dont socialize with others, or you are not allowed to enter alone.

I might go to a pub to have a drink alone or i can socialize with someone, but thats an option and a choice, not an obligation.

 

Solo haters call hardcore soloers "antisocial".

The irony is that by not being able to understand and accept other playstyles than your own, you prove that you are in fact antisocial.

 

An mmo is a place shared by many different people, different ages, different cultures, different sex, different lifestyles and above all different taste.

Accepting these differences should be a common sense rule.

No more bashing people because they are elitists, or because they rush through the game too fast, or they play too much, they too casual and like it easy, they play solo or they only raid, everyone bashes everyone and thats just crazy.

[Damon_Mott]

There is a huge difference between single player games and MMOs, larger, more persistent world, the auction house, and the option to team with others should you so choose.

 

I just think it's a bait and switch to allow players to solo the entire game and then require them to group up at the end.

 

There's no MMO law that says that every one of them has to have endgame raiding as the only possible method of PvE endgame progression. In a game like this one, that has companions, that is doubly true.

 

I agree with the OP. The devs should "simulate" a raid like experience for solo players. They can begin by having the solo player:

 

1. Wait in a queue for 30-60 min where they cannot do anything except send their companions out to craft or do crafting missions. Chat is available to pass the time. This will simulate the time it takes to put together a full raid party. Only a full raid party wont be added, as it is a solo experience.

 

2. Once the queue expires, instead of crawling through a dungeon, they will complete an epic quest. Once this quest begins, they have one week to complete before the quest resets. If they tried doing the quest in one day, it could take 4-8 hours depending on how many times they wipe on the end boss encounters.

 

3. After downing a boss, they have a 1 in 16 chance to actually get a piece of endgame gear, the same odds as any player in a raid party in SWTOR. If they dont get any loot, they get to try the quest next week.

 

That seems fair to me.

[Technohic]

Only people that are truly enjoying themselves right now are the people playing alone.

 

Reading the posts on these forums, I wouldn't have the slightest idea of why that is.

 

"This sucks"

 

"Nerf X Class"

 

"My class sucks"

 

"this game sucks"

 

"Those crybaby casual gamers don't want a real game"

 

"Those hard core kids have no life"

 

"Your gear sucks. ****"

 

*Random other whining.*

 

Yeah. Sign me up to play with those guys...

[Muskaan]

I agree with the OP. The devs should "simulate" a raid like experience for solo players. They can begin by having the solo player:

 

1. Wait in a queue for 30-60 min where they cannot do anything except send their companions out to craft or do crafting missions. Chat is available to pass the time. This will simulate the time it takes to put together a full raid party. Only a full raid party wont be added, as it is a solo experience.

 

2. Once the queue expires, instead of crawling through a dungeon, they will complete an epic quest. Once this quest begins, they have one week to complete before the quest resets. If they tried doing the quest in one day, it could take 4-8 hours depending on how many times they wipe on the end boss encounters.

 

3. After downing a boss, they have a 1 in 16 chance to actually get a piece of endgame gear, the same odds as any player in a raid party in SWTOR. If they dont get any loot, they get to try the quest next week.

 

That seems fair to me.

 

I support this.

[TheSwamper]

I understand that there is a portion of the community that wants this, and I've even seen similar requests in other MMO's as well. However, most of these players seem to have this expectation that the loot dropped in these "solo" missions/quests should be comparable to end-game raiding gear.

 

You can claim to be the special-snowflake that "just wants to see the content" all you want, but I've seen enough evidence from these players in WoW complain about the loot in the LFR to realize that "wanting to see content" wears off after the first time through

 

Raiders don't do it 'just to see the content either'.

 

In a heavy gear-based game, like most MMOs are, better gear is the only meaningful method of progression, once you stop getting levels. By locking that better/better/best gear away behind raids, it is limiting those methods.

 

It's not just a question of getting more gear for it's own sake, or even to be able to handle the tougher content, it's a matter of progressing your character to the best they can be. The game offers two parallel paths, one solo and one group to get from levels 1 to 50, and then one path comes to an abrupt end.

 

Why not just have both paths continue, and let each player choose their preference?

[Saurakk]

I agree with the OP. The devs should "simulate" a raid like experience for solo players. They can begin by having the solo player:

 

1. Wait in a queue for 30-60 min where they cannot do anything except send their companions out to craft or do crafting missions. Chat is available to pass the time. This will simulate the time it takes to put together a full raid party. Only a full raid party wont be added, as it is a solo experience.

 

2. Once the queue expires, instead of crawling through a dungeon, they will complete an epic quest. Once this quest begins, they have one week to complete before the quest resets. If they tried doing the quest in one day, it could take 4-8 hours depending on how many times they wipe on the end boss encounters.

 

3. After downing a boss, they have a 1 in 16 chance to actually get a piece of endgame gear, the same odds as any player in a raid party in SWTOR. If they dont get any loot, they get to try the quest next week.

 

That seems fair to me.

 

You can add in that there is a 50% random chance of the mob using an insta-kill ability to simulate someone on the raid not doing their job and you die at no fault of your own and cannot prevent it either lol.

 

I am sure they can work out something to match raiding.

 

But seriously, group raiding is repeatable because people go back after they acquire what they needed or wanted to assist friends and guildies get what they need or want.

 

That dynamic and repeatability is almost impossible to simulate in a solo "raid".

[Azkit]

Yeah, bring all your companions to Operations and watch them all die the first time a single AoE is thrown down.

 

 

Yeah.. no.

[Ruuprect]

I agree with the OP. The devs should "simulate" a raid like experience for solo players. They can begin by having the solo player:

 

1. Wait in a queue for 30-60 min where they cannot do anything except send their companions out to craft or do crafting missions. Chat is available to pass the time. This will simulate the time it takes to put together a full raid party. Only a full raid party wont be added, as it is a solo experience.

 

2. Once the queue expires, instead of crawling through a dungeon, they will complete an epic quest. Once this quest begins, they have one week to complete before the quest resets. If they tried doing the quest in one day, it could take 4-8 hours depending on how many times they wipe on the end boss encounters.

 

3. After downing a boss, they have a 1 in 16 chance to actually get a piece of endgame gear, the same odds as any player in a raid party in SWTOR. If they dont get any loot, they get to try the quest next week.

 

That seems fair to me.

 

^^This^^ is the perfect solution, I love it!

[NightWraithes]

Easy enough to fix. DCUO had end game progression that you could do solo. There were daily missions, at the end of my days playing I think there were like 9-10. Each would send you to an instance, and upon completion you would receive marks (much like comms). However, these would have to be turned in at a 10 - 1 ratio in order to get the correct mark to purchase the first set of tier gear. Also, there were daily duo missions that would award the tier 1 marks, and one duo each day would be the "star" mission which would award 1 mark for tier 2 gear.

 

Each piece of tier gear took around 40-65 marks (if i remember right). So, essentially if you did all 10 daily solo missions, all of the duo's (like 4-5 I think), and did not raid at all, it would take you around 1-2 weeks to get a piece of gear depending on the piece.

 

Or, you could just do the 4 man "hard modes" and get more marks and a chance at pre-raid epic pieces.

 

This offered a progression path outside of raiding, yet did not take away from the raiders by making it readily available (especially T2 gear which would take months just to get 1 piece at a solo/duo rate).

 

This system is not too far off from the way swtor is, you do hard modes (somewhat a solo-ish experience in that it does not take a raid and/or guild to do) and have a chance at the gear token, or save up your comms to buy gear.

[Orizuru]

Raiders don't do it 'just to see the content either'.

 

In a heavy gear-based game, like most MMOs are, better gear is the only meaningful method of progression, once you stop getting levels. By locking that better/better/best gear away behind raids, it is limiting those methods.

 

It's not just a question of getting more gear for it's own sake, or even to be able to handle the tougher content, it's a matter of progressing your character to the best they can be. The game offers two parallel paths, one solo and one group to get from levels 1 to 50, and then one path comes to an abrupt end.

 

Why not just have both paths continue, and let each player choose their preference?

 

Solo content always comes to an abrupt end. That's the nature of solo content. You could have an entire army of game developers making quests for solo content and the community would eat the content alive the first day it is release then be bored to tears for months while new content is made.

[kaboro]

I agree with the OP. The devs should "simulate" a raid like experience for solo players. They can begin by having the solo player:

 

1. Wait in a queue for 30-60 min where they cannot do anything except send their companions out to craft or do crafting missions. Chat is available to pass the time. This will simulate the time it takes to put together a full raid party. Only a full raid party wont be added, as it is a solo experience.

 

2. Once the queue expires, instead of crawling through a dungeon, they will complete an epic quest. Once this quest begins, they have one week to complete before the quest resets. If they tried doing the quest in one day, it could take 4-8 hours depending on how many times they wipe on the end boss encounters.

 

3. After downing a boss, they have a 1 in 16 chance to actually get a piece of endgame gear, the same odds as any player in a raid party in SWTOR. If they dont get any loot, they get to try the quest next week.

 

That seems fair to me.

 

So in other words, raiding is a pain, stupid me thought you guys raiding for fun, not enduring these oh so painful torments just to get some gear.

[Trolltar]

I'd support bringing companions on easy mode versions of raids. I would have the drops be at least a "tier" lower level than the drops in the normal raid. Or I would replace the loot with tokens that can be traded for gear. It would be cool to be able to do that.

 

And let's face it, its really hard to find flash point groups in this game, let alone raiding for those of us that aren't in a raiding guild.

 

The trick is to balance it in such a way that the guys that get together and raid together are still be rewarded for their efforts.

[Syylara]

Solo content always comes to an abrupt end. That's the nature of solo content. You could have an entire army of game developers making quests for solo content and the community would eat the content alive the first day it is release then be bored to tears for months while new content is made.

 

That this has been the case in previous models does not mean it is "the nature" of it, there is no immutable law of physics making it so. The code that allows you to continue progressing solo beyond level cap will not lock up your processor.

 

Progression-oriented solo content should have the same pass/fail ratio, the same lockout timers and same pace of rewards per player as operations, meaning that it will not be finished "the very first day."

 

Also, have you looked around recently and noticed how many people are making the exact same complaint about operations in this game? They are already done.

 

What's good for the goose is good for the gander, but I've seen this double-standard employed for about 10+ years now, so it isn't remotely original.

[Sephendrine]

People who use the "It should always be whatever I want it to be" argument are living in la la land..

 

 

 

Sorry guy, you don't matter to me. I know you think you do, but you just don't.

 

 

 

Thats like saying people who play the game twister alone appreciate it more. I detect epeen envy and all the bitterness that goes along with it. I guess we should all be souless zombies like you when we play online games or else were doing it wrong.

 

 

 

Thats right, this or that game did it, so you need to do it too. BTW, at level 50 you can go back and pwn FPs like cademimu all day long just like lower dungeons in WoW.

 

 

 

For like what, a couple days? BW better get going on that months of development so that I might want to play their game for 1-2 more days than I would otherwise.

 

 

 

I love how you just presume why people behave they way they do and your opinion on this is a fact.

 

 

 

I've never met a solo player in a mmo because by the time I'm meeting them, I'm playing the game with them. Keep posting please and may the entertainment value be with you.

 

Thank you btw for providing another prime example of why so many veteran mmorpg players like myself ("soulless zombies") who previously raided in high end guilds for years in games like WoW and Aion prefer to avoid people like you.

 

Everything I wrote was in response to players who think soloers in mmos should get out of their game and go play single player rpgs. Almost everyone I ever played with had alts they kept secret so they wouldn't get bombarded with tells as soon as they logged in.

 

The OP was simply suggesting some additional solo content be added to the game, such as has been successfully done in other games, and look at the vitriol that has spewed forth from people like you.

 

I've met alot of solo players in mmorpgs. I've raided with them. Just because someone plays primarily solo doesn't mean they won't play with others. Often a solo player's end game is random pvp, where they play with others but on an impersonal level. That's from personal experience over years. In my raiding guild in WoW we had a guy in it who never raided but just played alts out solo in the world. Guess who everyone went to when they had a question about the game that didn't involve raiding? But then, my guild was filled with fun, mature people who didn't say things like "you don't matter to me" as if that proves something. Actually, there is one thing it proves.

 

I already know that I don't matter to you. And I don't care, and I'd bet there's no one else that does either.

 

By the way, the idea that solo content only lasts a couple of days is laughable. I could start naming a list of top notch mmorpgs you have obviously never played, including WoW.

 

And let me say, I'm happy for you if you have to find a group as soon as you log in, and you find other people who enjoy your presence in the game and are willing to play with you. Really, I'm happy for you. So what's everything you said got to do with the possibility of single player dungeons or raids? Oh yeah, nothing.

 

Comparing a mmorpg to Twister? Priceless.

[Frostvein]

I listened live at the guild summit but have not seen those vids posted yet.

 

Here is the best I can do:

 

http://www.darthhater.com/articles/swtor-news/19973-guild-summit-stream-live-blog/page-3

 

5th bullet point.

 

Good enough, thanks!

[agilmore]

They already have non-clickable character numbers scale to the system specs, why not just scale the mobs to the number of characters. For example Heroic 4+ would have 25% of the npc specs and 25% of the rewards handed out.

 

No extra development costs to roll out the same content for solo through operation level.