NoxiousAlby Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Maybe this is pure madness, but chaos is contagious. The endgame presents two possible paths that are alright for some, but not all. I understand that this is an MMO, but I enjoy the fusion of this multiplayer-singleplayer hybrid. Personal I want the option to do single player stuff at endgame that still rewards the pleasure centers of my brain. In my boredom I questioned what could be easy to implement for those who don't always wish to play nice with others. I would think it at least interesting to be able to bring all of your companions on endgame hard mode flashpoints. Playing as a group will general be more fun, but this would be a great convenience for those of us not ashamed of playing with ours selves. This topic has been going around since the 20/1/12, yes it would be good, give us something to grind when our friends are offline. So far BW has been silent on the subject because they are to hung up on the concept of "community" and feel it would be detrimental towards that. Sadly though if they dont provide some sort of end game grind (not dallies) for solo players they will be shooting themselves in the foot. My thread in the suggestion box http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=210135 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoxiousAlby Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 lol why?! I mean just buy a single player console game and chat on Facebook with your friends or something. Mostly younger people use facebook, myself have no interest in it. Also single player games feel sterile, there is no immersive world like MMO's with chat functions, pvp, & a GTN. Why have grouping end game content when only 38% of players are participating in it? And yes that is BW own figure released at the guild summit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xeenz Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 I'm totally with you OP on this one. Would love some more solo content at endgame! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stugotz Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 I'm totally with you OP on this one. Would love some more solo content at endgame! This . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destronicus Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 I keep saying it, I've been playing MMORPGs since 1997 starting with UO and this is by far the most anti-social player base I have ever experienced. Now people want to solo raids. I am gobsmacked by this "community". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kheld Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 I quit Rift when I reached endgame & found there was nothing to do for a solo player. I quit Lotro when I reached endgame & found there was nothing to do for a solo player. Im really getting bored of Tor right now.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muskaan Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 I'm totally with you OP on this one. Would love some more solo content at endgame! I agree as well; however not in the form of end game raids for solo-ers. More like sandbox elements for soloers or epic quest chains. For example-- Allow us to decorate the insides of our ship with trophies won from defeating key encounters (i.e like a Throne Room concept from Civilization 3). So, say you solo the Sarlacc in Tattoine. It drops a trophy which you can hang up in your ship's trophy room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calsidian Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Two words: Balancing nightmare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jett-Rinn Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 (edited) Two words: Balancing nightmare. Trion would like to have a word with you. I asked Georg Zoller about this yesterday on Google plus I said I could not for the life of me understand why you couldn't Duo flashpoinst with your companions (IE two people + two companions) the only reason he could give was they were meant to be plays in groups of four. He never took into account that I said that Heroic flashpoints shouldn't allow this or that I wasn't asking for operations to be soloable I simply asked that my wife and I could run a falshpoint with our companions It's meant for groups because we need to keep our e-cred with the Base..err "hardcores" Never mind that they are leaving in droves anyway while the casuals are still buying the game and are begging to give you money....maybe you should I dunno go talk with Blizzard about what happens when you piss off your main audience. But no gotta keep that e-cred with people who will hate you regardless. Edited March 12, 2012 by Jett-Rinn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vanderin Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 While as a Vetren MMO player, I am enjoying this game...but as alot of posters here have said that at 50 there is only so much to do. BUT...this game has already given more in the first 4 months then wow did in the first year. If people are leaving already stating they are bored...they have absolutly no clue about how MMO's work. To expect a company to have 2-3 years of content sitting there is a little much to ask in the first few months. Each patch this game is getting better...have a little patience...or quit...we will see you back in a couple months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafaelan Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Jett-Rinn That is dissapointing to hear.... They need to incorporate scaling into the Heroic 4 quests....I was doing Balmorra yesterday and there is like 6 of them, it was ridiculous....and the irony of it is, that the rewards are not even that good....a blue that may\may not be a slight upgrade, an orange gear piece (of whch by now you have multiples of) or 3 commendations? So basically you have most people skipping them...So in essence, Bioware has created content that a large majority of thier player base will just skip...and here now they are encouraging people to make alts and I seriously doubt most people are going to go thru this content again, as this game matures all those heroic areas are going to be empty wastelands...what a complete waste of design time....same goes for flashpoints... 38% of endgame 50's raiding is a fail, and putting story mode in isn't going to help that much either.... I don't mind most of the 2+ heroic content b\c most of it can be soloed, some are more challenging than others but for a solo player it offers a nice challenge.... I think scaling, allowing more than 1 companion, or solo\duo versions of quests\flashpoints etc are all great ideas, and yes many MMO's are already embracing this.... You have 2 different playstyles and any good MMO should be looking for ways to appeal to both of them, that is just good business, raiders want more raids\tiers, solo players want a comparable endgame progression...satisfy both and strengthen your game\subscription base overall, that is just common sense.... Relevant rewards can easily be achieved by lockouts, tokens etc.... Hopefully Bioware sees this before it is too late, b\c I agree there will be an exodus of people who when they get to endgame have nothing else to do but raid\PvP or reroll...you can only view the same content so many times and gear gaps eventually lead to people quitting and there is no need for it to be that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavin_Darkl Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 (edited) BW already stated that this is not a Massive Single Player game and they will not make Solo Raids, or Solo max level flashpoints. MMO players do not pay a monthly fee to play a single player game. Only people who want to play a single player game play MMOS and are willing to pay for single player content. Single player content is not in keeping with what MMOS are. Massive MULTIPLAYER Online, Not Massive Single Player. Edited March 13, 2012 by Arzhanin Rude comments Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoxiousAlby Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 (edited) Trion would like to have a word with you. I asked Georg Zoller about this yesterday on Google plus I said I could not for the life of me understand why you couldn't Duo flashpoinst with your companions (IE two people + two companions) the only reason he could give was they were meant to be plays in groups of four. He never took into account that I said that Heroic flashpoints shouldn't allow this or that I wasn't asking for operations to be soloable I simply asked that my wife and I could run a falshpoint with our companions It's meant for groups because we need to keep our e-cred with the Base..err "hardcores" Never mind that they are leaving in droves anyway while the casuals are still buying the game and are begging to give you money....maybe you should I dunno go talk with Blizzard about what happens when you piss off your main audience. But no gotta keep that e-cred with people who will hate you regardless. Exactly, no truer words have been spoken. What BW dont realize is the potential losses they will face once bored solo & duo players finally give in and accept there is no end game content for them apart from terribad space combat & WZ's. BW hyped up the concept of community so much that they have created a psuedo relationship between grouping & community. To allow solo progression in their eyes would be like breaking the game, maybe when enough players have left they will realize their mistake. When only 38% of the total number of 50's are participating in raids that leaves an even greater number not wanting to have anything to do with it. This group of 62% need end game character progression, and sorry but dallies & additional story quest lines at level cap wont do it. in the case of the later the content will be chewed through far to fast to allow months of grinding in between patches. Another classic example of how the hardcore mentality does more harm than good to a game, especially when developers feel the need to protect them. If 68% of subs cancelled overnight there would be no game, and at this point the greater majority of players are saying no to raids. BW ignore your own statistics at your peril Edited March 13, 2012 by NoxiousAlby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoxiousAlby Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 (edited) BW already stated that this is not a Massive Single Player game and they will not make Solo Raids, or Solo max level flashpoints. MMO players do not pay a monthly fee to play a single player game. Only people who want to play a single player game play MMOS and are willing to pay for single player content. Single player content is not in keeping with what MMOS are. Massive MULTIPLAYER Online, Not Massive Single Player. Would also like to point out that MMO does not mean MASSIVE GROUPING ONLINE, massive multiplayer is defined as a central world with hundreds if not thousands of players interacting together in pvp, chat, & GTN. There are actually console games that are classified as MMO's thesedays on xbox etc. It's a good idea to understand what an MMO is before throwing it around like some sort of weapon. Edited March 13, 2012 by Arzhanin Quoted removed content Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlaxitov Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 (edited) Thank you btw for providing another prime example of why so many veteran mmorpg players like myself ("soulless zombies") who previously raided in high end guilds for years in games like WoW and Aion prefer to avoid people like you. Well since were talking mmo credentials, after my years of being a metaphysicist in anarchy online I served as main tank warrior from MC to Nax 40 and got field marshal in my spare time. (would have had to quit my job to get grand marashal) I also served as a healing minstrel in LOTRO for what you could have called raiding in that game off and on for years. Aion's release was nasty and it was pretty much a korean grinder, so I didn't stay with it very long after I hit max level. I raided as a paragon warrior up to the first few bosses at HK in Rift. Now I'm raiding as a gunslinger here. Everything I wrote was in response to players who think soloers in mmos should get out of their game and go play single player rpgs. Almost everyone I ever played with had alts they kept secret so they wouldn't get bombarded with tells as soon as they logged in. Oh please, people keep their alts secret so that they aren't obligated to log onto their main to help someone who knows they have a main. Thats soo classic its not even funny. The OP was simply suggesting some additional solo content be added to the game, such as has been successfully done in other games, and look at the vitriol that has spewed forth from people like you. Look man, I think this game DOES need more solo content just like it DOES need more group content. They DO need more content, period. I'm not going to point to another game and say something like "theres the bar you need to reach to satisfy me." If that were the case I'd still be playing Rift. Its your nonsense and guised insults and arrogance that sucks. Insult the person you're responding to specifically next time maybe rather than blanket insults. I've met alot of solo players in mmorpgs. I've raided with them. Just because someone plays primarily solo doesn't mean they won't play with others. Often a solo player's end game is random pvp, where they play with others but on an impersonal level. That's from personal experience over years. In my raiding guild in WoW we had a guy in it who never raided but just played alts out solo in the world. Guess who everyone went to when they had a question about the game that didn't involve raiding? But then, my guild was filled with fun, mature people who didn't say things like "you don't matter to me" as if that proves something. Actually, there is one thing it proves. We used to drag a hunter to raids kicking and screaming back in the day too because he had skills though he wasn't interested in raiding, but this is a semantics game now and doesen't change what you've already said. I already know that I don't matter to you. And I don't care, and I'd bet there's no one else that does either. Yay, nobody cares. By the way, the idea that solo content only lasts a couple of days is laughable. I could start naming a list of top notch mmorpgs you have obviously never played, including WoW. Solo content in this game specifically because the content we have already is about as deep as a milk saucer. And let me say, I'm happy for you if you have to find a group as soon as you log in, and you find other people who enjoy your presence in the game and are willing to play with you. Really, I'm happy for you. So what's everything you said got to do with the possibility of single player dungeons or raids? Oh yeah, nothing. Being the seasoned vet you proclaim to be, "single player raids" doesen't just sound ridiculas to you? Its funny, you accuse me of "spewing vitriol" yet cannot help but to spew a venerable amount of it yourself in the same breath. Comparing a mmorpg to Twister? Priceless. Playing this mmo solo would be about as fun as playing twister solo. I stand by that statement. Edited March 13, 2012 by Vlaxitov Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krinaman Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 (edited) BW already stated that this is not a Massive Single Player game and they will not make Solo Raids, or Solo max level flashpoints. MMO players do not pay a monthly fee to play a single player game. Only people who want to play a single player game play MMOS and are willing to pay for single player content. Single player content is not in keeping with what MMOS are. Massive MULTIPLAYER Online, Not Massive Single Player. You know, everyone posting stuff like this should really look up the definition of MMO. Seriously, the term simply means a lot of players all sharing the same online game world. That's it. Nothing more. Absolutely nothing about group sizes or even being in a group. Heck, almost MMO out there provides for solo play. Are all those games not MMOs? Or does the "must group" rule only apply to the top end game gear? Edited March 13, 2012 by Arzhanin Quoted removed content Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akirator Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Would also like to point out that MMO does not mean MASSIVE GROUPING ONLINE, massive multiplayer is defined as a central world with hundreds if not thousands of players interacting together in pvp, chat, & GTN. There are actually console games that are classified as MMO's thesedays on xbox etc. It's a good idea to understand what an MMO is before throwing it around like some sort of weapon. Not exactly sure why you included that as it doesn't have anything to do with the rest of your argument. I don't think anybody has said MMOs can only be played on PCs. You make it sound like they're classified as MMOs DESPITE being on consoles, when really the platform has absolutely nothing to do with genre identification. As a note for this thread in general, I would love it if BW would let you use companions to solo a FP, and honestly I don't see any reason not to allow it. Also, I've seen alot of people in this thread who apparently think hardcore players are the ones who like to group and casuals are all demanding solo content...which is just completely ignorant of anybody to say. Those labels have nothing to do with solo vs. grouping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoxiousAlby Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Clipped the parts I would like to respond to and deleted the insults as theres no reason for them Look man, I think this game DOES need more solo content just like it DOES need more group content. They DO need more content, period. I'm not going to point to another game and say something like "theres the bar you need to reach to satisfy me." If that were the case I'd still be playing Rift. You absolutely right and BW have gone part of the way to fixing the problem. For serious or hardcore raiders nightmare modes will be extremely difficult (or so they claim) and will drop loot superior to heroic modes. For solo players there will be additional class quests at level cap, SAY WHAT? whats the point? we do the class quests as part of the leveling process, and to make matters worse there are players who will finish this additional content within hours. What are they supposed to do for the next 3-6 months in between patch content? Having solo versions of flashpoints and operations will provide the grind that players are after to obtain character progression. I dont think anyone is saying the gear drops should equal group content but it will give players something to work towards. Also considering all the scripting has been done I would imagine the amount of work required would be minimal in adjusting boss mechanics and loot drops for 1 player and 3-5 companions. Playing this mmo solo would be about as fun as playing twister solo. I stand by that statement. It would become a grind for solo players nothing more & nothing less. Just before leaving Wow I had grinded ZA & ZG over 500 times in 3 months over 3 characters. Being able to solo flashpoints & operations with 3-5 companions would be fantastic, giving us the opportunity to - Use more than 1 companion at a time - Gear our companions - gear ourselves Put it on a lockout like group content and it would keep players entertained for months. What may seem boring and unappealing to you sounds enjoyable to a great many players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoxiousAlby Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 (edited) Not exactly sure why you included that as it doesn't have anything to do with the rest of your argument. I don't think anybody has said MMOs can only be played on PCs. You make it sound like they're classified as MMOs DESPITE being on consoles, when really the platform has absolutely nothing to do with genre identification. As a note for this thread in general, I would love it if BW would let you use companions to solo a FP, and honestly I don't see any reason not to allow it. Also, I've seen alot of people in this thread who apparently think hardcore players are the ones who like to group and casuals are all demanding solo content...which is just completely ignorant of anybody to say. Those labels have nothing to do with solo vs. grouping. Was in reply to BW already stated that this is not a Massive Single Player game and they will not make Solo Raids, or Solo max level flashpoints. MMO players do not pay a monthly fee to play a single player game. Only people who want to play a single player game play MMOS and are willing to pay for single player content. Single player content is not in keeping with what MMOS are. Massive MULTIPLAYER Online, Not Massive Single Player. My reply Would also like to point out that MMO does not mean MASSIVE GROUPING ONLINE, massive multiplayer is defined as a central world with hundreds if not thousands of players interacting together in pvp, chat, & GTN. There are actually console games that are classified as MMO's thesedays on xbox etc. It's a good idea to understand what an MMO is before throwing it around like some sort of weapon. Your right had very little to do with the question of the thread but I for one get tired of the some players misusing the term MMO Edited March 13, 2012 by Arzhanin Quoted removed content Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlaxitov Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 For solo players there will be additional class quests at level cap, SAY WHAT? whats the point? we do the class quests as part of the leveling process, and to make matters worse there are players who will finish this additional content within hours. What are they supposed to do for the next 3-6 months in between patch content?. In this instance I would make the charge that ALL the content lacks depth in general. So it doesen't really matter how much more they put out untill they make what content there is more meaningful. Having solo versions of flashpoints and operations will provide the grind that players are after to obtain character progression. I dont think anyone is saying the gear drops should equal group content but it will give players something to work towards. Also considering all the scripting has been done I would imagine the amount of work required would be minimal in adjusting boss mechanics and loot drops for 1 player and 3-5 companions. Whether it be group, solo, or whatever, I'm tired of recycled dungeons in mmos. It would become a grind for solo players nothing more & nothing less. Just before leaving Wow I had grinded ZA & ZG over 500 times in 3 months over 3 characters. Being able to solo flashpoints & operations with 3-5 companions would be fantastic, giving us the opportunity to - Use more than 1 companion at a time - Gear our companions - gear ourselves Put it on a lockout like group content and it would keep players entertained for months. What may seem boring and unappealing to you sounds enjoyable to a great many players. I always use the word "grind" to represent something I'd rather not do if it weren't for a reward. People would "grind" instances like ZG for the tiger mount. Speaking of instances like ZG, of course this game doesen't have raid instances that are years old and two level caps behind to go smash solo yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoxiousAlby Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 In this instance I would make the charge that ALL the content lacks depth in general. So it doesen't really matter how much more they put out untill they make what content there is more meaningful. Agree but they are making amends, there will definately be changes in the upcoming months. They are addressing the issue of lack of challenge & reward for serious raiders, dont get me wrong because i believe this to be a good thing. This segment of the playerbase needs the challenge vs reward concept to keep them playing. Unfortunately only 38% of level 50's are participating in operations (BW own figure), what isnt being provided is end game content for the other 62% Whether it be group, solo, or whatever, I'm tired of recycled dungeons in mmos.Again i agree but the holy trinity of level -> dungeon -> raid -> is all we have and it's all we've been offered for the last 15 years. BW have already stated they arent about innovation. Only they want to bring together the successfull aspects of other games and incorporate them into a single game. We each have our own opinion on how successfull that idea has been, but I for one was hoping for a bit of innovation. I always use the word "grind" to represent something I'd rather not do if it weren't for a reward. People would "grind" instances like ZG for the tiger mount. Speaking of instances like ZG, of course this game doesen't have raid instances that are years old and two level caps behind to go smash solo yet. Sorry but when I meant grind that was in Cata where it was re-released as a 4 man dungeon (difficult at first or with the wrong grp). I used to grind it for badges, I suppose the point I was trying to make is that some players like to equate effort = reward. And just because a player doesnt raid it doesnt mean they dont put in effort, same can be said for solo players. I know the last class quest boss for my marauder took 2 hours to disect and analyse the fight before taking him down, on the class forums many players had to get help as they saw him as undoable. Giving solo players a grind like solo versions of flashpoints or operations would provide a reward, lesser reward than group content I can accept. But if your like me your over dailies and further class quests just wont provide the time grind solo players need. All I want is a successfull game and in order to do that BW needs to provide character progression for all segments of the playerbase. Not just pvpers & serious pve'ers but also solo players (many of which pvp just not at level cap). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhatVN Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Okay let make a single raiding endgame but last 10X longer.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoxiousAlby Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Okay let make a single raiding endgame but last 10X longer.... That would be fine, put it on a weekly lockout so a player has the entire week to run it. I'm not sure if you were being serious or smart but either way your idea would not be adverse to most solo players if they had a week to complete it in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mayjin Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Do what LOTR did with the skirmish zones..you can go in as a team or on your own and it was fun as hell imo...they had random special mobs spwn with other little things going on..it was good while i was wating for my mates or was close to that lv 32 or whatever..gave a nice little story from the lore.. and it lets you gear up with commendation you get from completing a skirmish..it might be just me but i think it worked really well.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGalucard Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Team gameplay can be overrated, IMO. I say this as a 7 year raider in WoW in which I still participate in two weekly raids for our guild (which I ran for many years as well). Raiding is work to administer, set up, shedule for, and police properly. It would be nice to play an MMO that gave one the option to do something meaningful in the endgame in a solo fashion...you know, just for fun. All the drama, grandstanding, dps analysis, loot rules and other aspects of a typical raid could be set aside for a fun run with nobody having to feel important or betrayed or entitled. Sounds like fun doesn't it? Same experience with wow raiding and i agree with you. id love to see a dynamic model for end game content that doesn't resemble having an extra job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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