Single Player Raiding Endgame

[Valkirus]

Solo endgame with 3 companions? Sign me up!

 

I would love some sort of non-raid endgame PvE along these lines. My only complaint about this game is that after you've completed the wonderful solo friendly leveling experiences, you're expected to be funneled into group-centric endgame content. I grew tired of that in TBC.

 

Furthermore, I love the idea that it would have it's own progression and would fit very well with how the game is set-up. I might further suggest scalability so that you can duo these things with a friend.

 

BioWare, make this happen and I will never buy another game

 

Same. Sign me up too. Would love the option to use two more of my companions to create my own 4 man grp to do Flashpoints and 4 man heroics with. No more standing around in Fleet trying to get a grp for a Flashpoint you need and after a hour, you give up and move on to the next quest you have, alt or quit.

Edited March 13, 2012 by Valkirus

[archifikoss]

Maybe this is pure madness, but chaos is contagious. The endgame presents two possible paths that are alright for some, but not all. I understand that this is an MMO, but I enjoy the fusion of this multiplayer-singleplayer hybrid. Personal I want the option to do single player stuff at endgame that still rewards the pleasure centers of my brain. In my boredom I questioned what could be easy to implement for those who don't always wish to play nice with others. I would think it at least interesting to be able to bring all of your companions on endgame hard mode flashpoints. Playing as a group will general be more fun, but this would be a great convenience for those of us not ashamed of playing with ours selves.

 

I'd like single player progression at end-game. It doesn't need to be as rewarding as group stuff as long as there is some progression involved (or maybe if the rewards were od similar quality they would have different stat distribution making them sub-par for anyhting other than soloing), as long as it's challenging, interesting and fun.

 

Companions and the presence stat offer a lot of possibilities IMO...

Edited March 13, 2012 by archifikoss

[Jett-Rinn]

Well according to this article the future is all about groups and E-sports; meaning they really don't care about the non-raiders 15.00 a month never mind that we are their largest demographic.

[Jett-Rinn]

Awww, you sound sad. Come to my server and we'll show you how to group with people.

 

Hyperspace Cannon. My name is the same as you see to the left.

 

Nope not sad I actually have a guild a very nice folks to play with the problem is when they aren't available and the multitudes of players that just don't like to group...there are hundreds of thousands of these players begging to shove money into MMO developers pockets...the only company that acts like it gives a damn about that demographic is Arenanet and GW2.

 

So what happens when a game that charges a monthly sub gives the finger to a huge demographic and there is this game that doesn't charge a sub that wasn't lying when they said play your way?

 

Not drum beating for GW2 but Bioware is just handing them all of those subs and BioWare seems to be more interested in getting their E-sports game going....because you know that has made so many other developers crazy rich.

Edited March 13, 2012 by Jett-Rinn

[krinaman]

I would love to see solo end game stuff.

 

Unfortunately, the basic MMO model is to get people into guilds. The thinking is that once in guilds and doing group stuff that player retention will go up. The idea being that once you make friends you will be less willing to leave.

 

I can't say that there isn't merit to that thinking. But, I also believe that enough players don't want to deal with end game content and the drama that goes with it that they should look into other ideas. Guild perks, etc. Something to get people into guilds without the raid or die mentality.

[LionRa]

I am all for scaling endgame content to be possible to be completed solo, just as soon as they implement a separate advancement path that doesn't require me to do a single soloable fetch/kill/gather/errand quest from 1 to 50. The advancement game is tailored to the soloist. The endgame is tailored to group play. That disconnect is what folks struggle with--they are told for the entirety of advancement that they are the hero and they need only a trusty NPC buddy at their side to save the galaxy. Then they reach max level and aren't equal to the task anymore, and have no skills or contacts to facilitate participating in groups. So there are two paths to resolution--either make endgame solo-friendly or make grouping more a part of the advancement process. Sadly, the former fits in far better with the KotOR-3 systems the game is built upon, and actually may end up being the best path forward here. SWtOR may end up becoming the "soloist's MMO," where all content is disposable and you never have to talk to anyone else, as long as folks buy your stuff on the GTN and occasionally stop you to ask where you got that amazing gear.

[pahbi]

On some servers, Kaeteel for example, the population is so low that a single player raid experience would be appropriate.

 

ATM there literally aren't enough 50's on the entire server to form a ops team.

 

- P

[Lance_Dunsten]

It is great idea to enable single/duo players to have endgame progression. An additional option for people to enjoy the game they want it. Everyone spend 15 dollars per month, everyone should have some attention.

 

To have it better than the current raid gear? I would say no.

To have it comparable? Yes.

 

The raiders current have the ability to progress to Rataka.

Let the solo/duo progress till Columni or even something closer, with the upcoming new mods removal, this would be great.

 

Let there be a single tier difference. Provide challenge for the solo/duo to farm their craft materials for their tier. Let the solo/duo teams perform 2+ heroics instances to obtain some new tokens, to obtain some better gears. HM FPs can be tweaked for 2man+2companions. If they permits, they should just create a 50lvl HMFP just like when we encounter BT/Ess FP at lower levels. Let them farm those with solo with their companions.

[Soluss]

There is a huge difference between single player games and MMOs, larger, more persistent world, the auction house, and the option to team with others should you so choose.

 

I just think it's a bait and switch to allow players to solo the entire game and then require them to group up at the end.

 

There's no MMO law that says that every one of them has to have endgame raiding as the only possible method of PvE endgame progression. In a game like this one, that has companions, that is doubly true.

 

Grouping up at the end is just as much an option as it is an option to do the group heroics and flashpoints throughout the leveling process as well. Its not like grouping starts at 50. I would think that with a new tier of raid armor and a new tier of PVP armor (which is queable solo) that maybe the new daily quests might be a new tier as well. On top of crafting will offer the best base gear and operation mod drops are tradable.

 

There are ways to get endgame gear without actually raiding.

[Soluss]

I don't know. Seems to me SWTOR is already a single player game. All I do is shout LF healer in general chat (and <shudder> daily quests if i feel up to it.)

 

I for one, am looking forward to GW where they throw the trinity out the window. You shouldn't be forced into specific type of gameplay.

 

Gluck with GW2... it will not be any different

[Soluss]

There is no reason developers could not create some long tough end game content for solo players with "raid like" rewards.

 

They should not be able to earn full raid gear but I fail to see how it ruins the game if they could get an end game chest piece or weapon or whatever along with an end game crafting schematic drop/mats.

 

It should be not be easy to complete and it should be time consuming.

 

Yeah its called crafting... rakatta belt, rakatta bracer. Dailies... rakatta implants, rakatta earpiece. In many cases the crafted implants and ears are better then the raid quality. The crafted belt and bracer with crit is better then the raid quality. There you go 5 pieces of raid level gear.

[meinfro]

I didn't choose to play this game because it was an MMO, I chose to play it because it was the most-recent Star Wars game available; and still I didn't buy it for three months because I had no desire to play a P2P MMO. I'd have much preferred, and still would, a sequel to Kotor 2. So I don't like being in a guild, making friends, or grouping up at all. The only desire I get to interact with anyone else is in PVP.

 

So as a result my gear will suck compared to most people's, which is kind of silly considering the big ol' importance Bioware and many reviewers have put into "It's an MMO that you can play as an entirely separate solo game!" because you're required to un-solo yourself to get better equipment end-game.

 

One weekly soloable instance, mobs have a small chance to drop commendations, end-boss has a chance to drop one piece of purple gear or more commendations; less of a chance for the drops than in grouped raids, just because I can imagine the qq that they'd give.

 

I wouldn't care if it took longer than those that group up and do HMs/NMs, as long as I was given the option to get it solo.

[HellFlame]

YOU GUYS KNOW WHAT AN MMO IS... SO DONT *********** COMPLAIN ABOUT RAIDS AND THE SIZES.. NOBODY FORCES YOU TO DO THAT... you want singleplayer i think theres enough story in the game by leveling alts. There are enough singleplayer games out there and bioware did enough for your kind of player already.

 

You can be happy that you get voice-overs for the whole story. They ****ed up endgame so hard... but its ok we got voice-overs... NOT. This game does enough for roleplayers its so sad.

 

You should not be able to get the best gear just from singleplayer in an mmo. This game would die instantly. T2 gier from HM FP is such a joke already.. that would be the top.

 

I think first you should understand the basic concepts of a raid before you ask for singleplayer endgame content.

 

There 3 roles in this game: TANK, DPS, HEALER.

 

You cant be all three at the same time so singleplayer endgame content would fail.

[Dhariq]

So many hostile people here with caps and all shouting 'how dare you propose this!'. Simple minded people are everywhere and they get hostile when people don't think like they do or don't look like they do etc.

 

Yes the genre of this is MMO which means that you play with other people in the same game. That by design does not make end game content impossible to have for solo players. It is simply a design choice by many companies which produce these games. For example Champions Online (which is an MMO) scale alot of their endgame content with how many people you are entering the instance. So you can do it with from 1-5 people. Loot then scales as well in a linear fashion.

 

So no the genre has nothing to do with it. They simply decided that PVE would work like that here and limited their scaling by allowing 8 or 16 man with different difficulties which all mainly just change hp, damage and enrage timers.

 

For PVP they decided that you would be able to get the best gear playing solo though and not have to have a group of people to enter those instances. You do not even have to beat a single thing, just show up and eventually you will as a solo looser get the best. Again this is also just something they decided that solo players would be able to do even though it is an MMO. So shout about changing that now please as it should strike the haters here as a complete outrage since it is a massive multiplayer game.

Edited March 14, 2012 by Dhariq

[HellFlame]

So many hostile people here with caps and all shouting 'how dare you propose this!'. Simple minded people are everywhere and they get hostile when people don't think like they do or don't look like they do etc.

 

Yes the genre of this is MMO which means that you play with other people in the same game. That by design does not make end game content impossible to have for solo players. It is simply a design choice by many companies which produce these games. For example Champions Online (which is an MMO) scale alot of their endgame content with how many people you are entering the instance. So you can do it with from 1-5 people. Loot then scales as well in a linear fashion.

 

So no the genre has nothing to do with it. They simply decided that PVE would work like that here and limited their scaling by allowing 8 or 16 man with different difficulties which all mainly just change hp, damage and enrage timers.

 

For PVP they decided that you would be able to get the best gear playing solo though and not have to have a group of people to enter those instances. You do not even have to beat a single thing, just show up and eventually you will as a solo looser get the best. Again this is also just something they decided that solo players would be able to do even though it is an MMO. So shout about changing that now please as it should strike the haters here as a complete outrage since it is a massive multiplayer game.

 

Nobody forces you to raid. LOOT GAIN THROUGH SINGLEPLAYER = FAIL. Think about what ur asking for... switch the little thing behind your head to on. Nobody would actually group up anymore because theres no need for it. Singleplayer so much easier... Raids would totally fail because you cant implement mechanics... except useless ones because everything except healers gonna die. I dont know what u guys understand in raids (ops) but its far away from singleplayer.

[ylaenna]

Nobody forces you to raid. LOOT GAIN THROUGH SINGLEPLAYER = FAIL. Think about what ur asking for... switch the little thing behind your head to on. Nobody would actually group up anymore because theres no need for it. Singleplayer so much easier... Raids would totally fail because you cant implement mechanics... except useless ones because everything except healers gonna die. I dont know what u guys understand in raids (ops) but its far away from singleplayer.

 

If you would just stop for two minutes and look past your caps lock key, and actually read some of what has been posted here, you would see:

 

1. People have suggested that the "solo" endgame content would be for you and your companions which even the in-game splash screen tips describe as having different roles. They are your tank, DPS, and healer, as needed.

 

2. People have also suggested that the rewards for this soloable content would not be the best gear – that would still be obtainable through group raids – but just better than what is available now through the content that is soloable.

[HellFlame]

If you would just stop for two minutes and look past your caps lock key, and actually read some of what has been posted here, you would see:

 

1. People have suggested that the "solo" endgame content would be for you and your companions which even the in-game splash screen tips describe as having different roles. They are your tank, DPS, and healer, as needed.

 

2. People have also suggested that the rewards for this soloable content would not be the best gear – that would still be obtainable through group raids – but just better than what is available now through the content that is soloable.

 

Totally useless takes people away from developing real raids.

Asking for more tionese gear obviously.

Edited March 14, 2012 by HellFlame

[Stardunk]

You'll go blind if you do that too much.

 

Listen to this man, he knows what he is talking about!

[HellFlame]

Actually someone told me something funny which im gonna repeat now:

 

"You ever asked for a raid in a singleplayer game? Guess not. Sounds stupid? So why you are asking for singleplayer endgame content."

[Rafaelan]

Actually someone told me something funny which im gonna repeat now:

 

"You ever asked for a raid in a singleplayer game? Guess not. Sounds stupid? So why you are asking for singleplayer endgame content."

 

Well your wrong, the fact is more people don't raid than raid...and Bioware is kidding themselves if they think that offering a "story" mode is going to suddenly get people to raid....

 

I think the idea of a player\companions mode with gear 1 tier lower than current raid gear is a great idea...they should extend that option to heroic 4 man areas & flashpoints as well...

 

It gives those people who don't want to raid some sort of progresion at endgame without affecting raids, b\c they were not going to raid anyway...

 

It also has the benefit that if they did decide they wanted to raid there wouldn't be this huge gear gap to overcome to access those raids....

 

Raiders would still get top level gear but there wouldn't be such a huge gap b\t the two. There is no good reason why there shouldn't be progression for both raiders and soloers, one does not affect the other and the more playstyles that are included\catered to the more subscriptions for Bioware, the better for everyone.....just common sense...

Edited March 14, 2012 by Rafaelan

[Soluss]

I didn't choose to play this game because it was an MMO, I chose to play it because it was the most-recent Star Wars game available; and still I didn't buy it for three months because I had no desire to play a P2P MMO. I'd have much preferred, and still would, a sequel to Kotor 2. So I don't like being in a guild, making friends, or grouping up at all. The only desire I get to interact with anyone else is in PVP.

 

So as a result my gear will suck compared to most people's, which is kind of silly considering the big ol' importance Bioware and many reviewers have put into "It's an MMO that you can play as an entirely separate solo game!" because you're required to un-solo yourself to get better equipment end-game.

 

One weekly soloable instance, mobs have a small chance to drop commendations, end-boss has a chance to drop one piece of purple gear or more commendations; less of a chance for the drops than in grouped raids, just because I can imagine the qq that they'd give.

 

I wouldn't care if it took longer than those that group up and do HMs/NMs, as long as I was given the option to get it solo.

 

Given your playstyle.... what does it matter that your gear "sucks" compared to everyone else?

 

You also said that you interact in PVP.... PVP gear is endgame gear too.

[Soluss]

Well your wrong, the fact is more people don't raid than raid...and Bioware is kidding themselves if they think that offering a "story" mode is going to suddenly get people to raid....

 

I think the idea of a player\companions mode with gear 1 tier lower than current raid gear is a great idea...they should extend that option to heroic 4 man areas & flashpoints as well...

 

It gives those people who don't want to raid some sort of progresion at endgame without affecting raids, b\c they were not going to raid anyway...

 

It also has the benefit that if they did decide they wanted to raid there wouldn't be this huge gear gap to overcome to access those raids....

 

Raiders would still get top level gear but there wouldn't be such a huge gap b\t the two. There is no good reason why there shouldn't be progression for both raiders and soloers, one does not affect the other and the more playstyles that are included\catered to the more subscriptions for Bioware, the better for everyone.....just common sense...

 

Gear that is 1 tier lower then raid gear is already obtainable solo. Do the dailies. Learn some craft skills. Crafting makes BIS on 5 pieces of gear. Mods from dailies are 1 tier lower then raid gear columni. Not even actually because Tionese is considered the tier lower then columni and I can mod better then tionese.

 

So there you have it... its not the "solo raid" that you asked for but it is the gear you asked for. It is easily obtainable.

[Cruorpunctis]

I expected a contrarian but this response is dubious. I'll take your word, though.

 

I am one of those players.

[HellFlame]

Well your wrong, the fact is more people don't raid than raid...and Bioware is kidding themselves if they think that offering a "story" mode is going to suddenly get people to raid....

 

I think the idea of a player\companions mode with gear 1 tier lower than current raid gear is a great idea...they should extend that option to heroic 4 man areas & flashpoints as well...

 

It gives those people who don't want to raid some sort of progresion at endgame without affecting raids, b\c they were not going to raid anyway...

 

It also has the benefit that if they did decide they wanted to raid there wouldn't be this huge gear gap to overcome to access those raids....

 

Raiders would still get top level gear but there wouldn't be such a huge gap b\t the two. There is no good reason why there shouldn't be progression for both raiders and soloers, one does not affect the other and the more playstyles that are included\catered to the more subscriptions for Bioware, the better for everyone.....just common sense...

 

Well your totally WRONG. You knew that ur buying an mmo.. yes there should be gap called RAID progression. You want more tionese gear and take more time away from developing real raids... gosh.

 

Was there ever a problem with raiding? I DONT THINK SO. Its just people lack in grouping skills. Not my problem, Not biowares problem. Thats YOURS.

 

Small frame thinking of some people here is funny. They lose a lot subscriptions if they would allow singleplayer ppl to actually achieve something in a mmo (massive MULTIPLAYER u know the rest).

 

What your asking for is like buying a car with 2 seats and then complaining that theres no space for 4 ppl ._.

[Silversable]

Maybe this is pure madness, but chaos is contagious. The endgame presents two possible paths that are alright for some, but not all. I understand that this is an MMO, but I enjoy the fusion of this multiplayer-singleplayer hybrid. Personal I want the option to do single player stuff at endgame that still rewards the pleasure centers of my brain. In my boredom I questioned what could be easy to implement for those who don't always wish to play nice with others. I would think it at least interesting to be able to bring all of your companions on endgame hard mode flashpoints. Playing as a group will general be more fun, but this would be a great convenience for those of us not ashamed of playing with ours selves.

I quoted the OP again because it seemed to me that the discussion has degenerated (as usual) into a "why would non-raiders ask for raid loot" ?

 

Where did the OP talk about loot ?

 

He never mentioned it anywere. He talked about *enjoyable* single-player endgame content with companions involved. Nothing about having BiS gear or whatever.

 

Now I see what LotRO did with the skirmish feature, which could easily be ported over to SWtOR. Skirmishes are calibrated for variable size groups (1, 2, 3, 6 or 12 players, plus one companion per player). The difficulty is scaled according to the number of players AND according to a sliding level scale that the instance creator can set. The scenarios are fairly varied and last 25 to 50 minutes on the average. They provide the equivalent of commendation rewards which can be used to buy companion skill improvements, cosmetic stuff and actual gear which is about equal to level cap purple. Nothing earth-shattering, nothing that even threatens the supremacy of raiding gear. But a subset of content that is perfectly calibrated for different playing styles - from solo to small group to normal sized group, from levelling game to endgame.

 

THAT is a worthwhile addition to the provided content, and it fits the bill both for those who want to play solo and those who want to play in group, without hurting the raiding crowd since it does not compete in the same reward category.