The reason Sorcerer/Sage CC is OP in PvP

[Vales]

To OOF in 10 seconds, which you claimed you were doing, you need to waste 100 energy every global cooldown. The ONLY way to do that is to use thunderstorm on every global cooldown.

 

 

As far as damaging abilities go, which is what you were complaining about, Shock is our biggest force dump (You shouldn't REALLY be using it anyways, the damage is awful) and costs 45 focus. Force armor isn't nearly as big a force dump as shock because assuming you use it on yourself its cooldown is 3x as long.

 

As for other instants we've got affliction, 35 force, Creeping terror, 20 force, Death field, 50 force, Overload, 20 force, Cl & LS in hybrid, 50 and 30 force respectively, electro/ww 20 force each, and crushing darkness at 40 force.

 

 

None of those cost anywhere near the amount of force you'd need to run out in any reasonable amount of time. Seeing as you regen some 12 force per gcd so that gives these an average of around minus 20 force per GCD

 

 

That means you would need to be spamming instants for 30 seconds straight without getting a single force lightning off, or killing your target. In which case you should really consider not pvping anymore.

 

 

Not to mention, even that scenario is impossible as those ALL have cooldowns making it impossible to spam them for 30 seconds straight unless you're reapplying dots at 50% completion.

 

If you're having any force problems it's a l2p issue.

 

If you claim Sorcs have no force issues you have 0 clue or you are lying.

I should not use Project/Shock? Ok what you do when a Sentinel or Mara is jumping in your face? Oh wait by your great logic I should spam TK Throw/Lightning since their damage is SO great (600 or 900 crit per tick is awesome saucez) and for sure they will let me do it.

 

Just going with all I have and considering most abilties cost around 50 Force and going by using it every GCD you can run out of force in 12 seconds.

12 * 50 = 600. Worst case scenario. Oh and in case you want to factor in regeneration: 12*8 = 96 which lasts at best for another 3 seconds. So grats you can run oof in 15 seconds. This is of course a worst case scenario.

 

The sorcs in this thread are really living up to the class stereotype gz

 

As do all you whiners. Grz.

Edited February 15, 2012 by Vales

[SicNNasty]

First off great post that for once isn't just a compilation of assumptions of the sorc / sage. And you do tap it on the head to coin a phrase, The AoE stun on the shield and the root of the knock back, are in my opinion what makes the hybrid sorc so annoying.

 

I would like to suggest that Chain Lightning be removed from the Wrath proc. AoE does far to much damage in this game and I do believe that the hybrid spec (which I played to valor 54) is extremely powerful solely because of this.

 

I also don't think this post stresses enough on the hybrids Force Management: a good Hybrid will never be OOM. (oof ^^) Well talented, force lightning will regenerate 10 pts of force over its duration. That's worse than free spamming, you're actually regenerating whilst dealing damage and procing Wrath. Plus trowing in a lightning strike from time to time will up your force regeneration rate, so yeah, a Hybrid will not only have all the utility you rightly stated, but will also be done with any consideration to energy management.

 

Also, I don't think you put enough stress on the power of Electric Bindings against a melee class. This 5s doesn't affect resolve and therefore is in every aspect to a pure melee class a 5s lockout with no possible immunity.

 

A simple example:

 

As a marauder I pick out a sorc. A good marau / sent knows not to blow force leap strait of the bat because of KBs. So you approach, battering assault, rupture, assault, annihilate will break the shield so: 3s blind, the sorc then throws down an instant whilhwind, for another 8s lock out. I then run back up to the target who still hasn't used his KB, he then does. Now I'm at full resolve but I'll still be locked out for 5s by the root effect on the KB. So far I've been locked out for 16s. He uses Force Slow and Force Speed to widen the gap, by the time I get back in range of a force leap, he is no longer locked out of his Shield and my resolve is empty. 3s blind, into whilwind, into KB root. All this time I'm constantly locked out of combat, and he still has electrocute if I trinket out of CC without full resolve.

 

A sorc is a prime target for a marauder if the marauder can catch him, the sorc is also often a priority target. Yet if as a melee you go in alone, you'll spend 90% of your time looking at him without being able to deal more than 2 GCDs worth of damage at a time.

 

Burst:

 

There is also the constant whining that "Sorcerers have no Burst". A Wrath Proc Chain Lightning can do up to 4k damage with Adrenal/Relic. This can be followed up by Death Field and Shock for almost 10k damage in 3 GCDs. DoTs can also add a decent amount to the burst if the Sorcerer put up Affliction and Crushing Darkness. This is more burst damage(not to mention it's AoE) than most non-gimmick specced classes can output.

 

As a comparison a Marauder's hardest hitting ability in Annihilation spec is Annihilate, which crits for 4k. The rest of the damage comes almost entirely from DoTs and weak ~1k damage attacks in this spec. The gimmick spec "Rage" can do one big 5k hit before being useless.

 

 

I would however like to come back to this point. A 4k crit on chain lightning would be the equiivalent of a 5k crit on Annihilate. On average I noticed CL criting for about 2.2k 2.5k, I would argue that I didn't get the 2.5k medal every game, so it doesn't crit above 2.5k every time. On my marauder I do get the medal every game, on average, Annihilate crits for 2.8k 3k.

 

Also, The marauder has the capability of stacking over a 1GCD overlap (1) the following:

The last tick of Ravage: approx 2.7k (A canalised ability, it doesn't spark off the GCD)

Annihilate: 3k

Retaliation: 1.2k (Off GCD)

Deadly Throw: 3k (if your target is at -20% hp, if not it would be Force Shout for a 2k crit)

+ DoTs that tick on every GCD, so 2x900 for Deadly Saber, and 2x400 for Rupture.

 

So we've got: 9.8k on the overlap of 1 GCD (2)

 

As a sorc you'll have the following over the same period of time:

The last tick of Force Lightning: 1000 (Canalised so no GCD)

Chain Lightning: 3k (I gave it a higher dmg than the one I've seen it do most of the time to prove my point)

Death Field: 2k

+ DoTs, CD ticks every GCD, but affliction is an extremely slow ticking DoT, so it would only tick once on a GCD overlap, so 2x400 + 400

 

So we'll have: 7.2k on the overlap of 1 GCD.

 

As I was saying to my guildies last night, the problem with the sorcs DPS is that it is very very constant and in that sense fairly high, but you really lack strong Spike damage that would take out a healed target.

 

In a way, I'm inclined to say that the Sorcs role in a battle isn't a main DPS role, they are utility in it's purest form.

 

Their CCs mean that as a melee, you'll just waste your time if you choose to target one that plays well. But on the other hand, he'll not kill you without making himself vulnerable to you. Understand the following: I've lost count of the time I've wasted running after a Sorc that just CC + ignored me, but I've killed every sorc that chose to stand and fight.

 

 

(1) By 1 GCD overlap I mean as in, you use one ability, the GCD starts, you use a second ability. This is 1GCD overlap. In both these examples I play on the fact that only instant abilities start of the GCD, so the first part of the GCD is in actual fact 2 abilities dealing damage simultaneously.

 

(2) Feel free to re-do the math if you think these values (that are those that I generally see) are incorrect, the fact will remain that the Sorcs potentiel spike will allways be lower than that of a pure DPS class like the Marauder / Sentinel or Sniper / Gunslinger. (bare in minde also that in order to get to this spike, the Marauder would have allready laid down around 5-6k dmg)

 

 

 

 

 

 

But +1 all the same, as a sorc the "Run Hide Heal" is far to easy, a full CC based Hybrid can run from one side of the map to another pulling along multiple melee classes that would be lucky to get him to 50% health before he can sprint out away, bubble up...

 

My Sorc spec FYI

Edited February 15, 2012 by SicNNasty

[Vales]

And while he is running from one side of the map to the other he does 0 for the team..

[biowareftw]

No idea what people are smoking on this thread where they claim other healers are harder to kill or better then a sorc healer.

 

When I see a sage healer on my team in a warzone it is an autowin. The ops/scoundrel healers usually ragequit unless they are with a premade(and I really can't blame them). Commando/Mercs are ok as long as their defensive cooldown is up but can easily be killed afterwards. Hell every good non sage healer I know is rerolling one to heal with.

 

PVE? Yeah those heal classes are fantastic. PvP? Sorc/sage or go home. With no offensive dispel, shielding someone is the best instant heal in the game and is the only way to keep up a soft target, so that you can get a heal off while the shield saves their butt.

 

You have to be a masochist to roll anything other then a sorc/sage healer if you are strictly pvping. I don't even know how this is debatable. I can only imagine you play on pve or rp servers and haven't seen what a well played sorc/sage healer can do for a team. Boy are you guys in for a treat when they merge servers LOL.

 

They outheal the other specs by so much it is just silly. All the good sorc/sages know it and have made threads saying they were OP compared to the other healers as well, but they are flamed just as much as the hybrid sorc/sages saying this spec needs to go.

 

I can only imagine that the devs have posters of Emperor Palpatine on their wall. It is the only explanation as to why the hybrid spec of assassin/shadows was nerfed before sage/sorc, why the number 1 counter was nerfed to the ground (op/scoundrel) and why sage/sorc healers are so much better then other healers in pvp.

 

The bias of the dev team makes Kalgan from WoW look like a saint... The guy that came up with mace stun on warriors...lol.

Edited February 15, 2012 by biowareftw

[Vales]

Sure thing bro:

 

 

Keep spouting more crap please. It is highly amusing.

[biowareftw]

Sure thing bro:

 

Keep spouting more crap please. It is highly amusing.

 

LOL at the comment on that vid.

 

"stopped watching at 1:00 when 5 people refused to use any interrupts. A pvp video of you pubstomping noobs is not my idea of something good to watch."

 

Smart guy. Not to mention this is when 50's were playing low levels. Hooray. Next link the sentinel video of him 3vs1'ing people (who all happen to be marauders).

 

Those vids prove everything! Screw experience, screw all the healers rerolling to sage and doing better. This video from pre 50 bracket proves everything!

[Vales]

Good job on totally missing the point which was getting 4k+ crits as healer but guess you did neither watch the video nor the commentary of the guy who linked the video.

Really were do people reroll healers? I barely see any in WZs and the few I see are mostly Commandos.

Yes any healer can tank that many people who do not interupt. Which was not the point.

Really good job dude being as usual obnoxious and spouting useless drivel.

 

I actually wonder why I have you not on ignore yet. Must be because you are still amusing with the exaggerated claims you shoot out of your rear.

Edited February 15, 2012 by Vales

[biowareftw]

Good job on totally missing the point which was getting 4k+ crits as healer but guess you did neither watch the video nor the commentary of the guy who linked the video.

Really were do people reroll healers? I barely see any in WZs and the few I see are mostly Commandos.

Yes any healer can tank that many people who do not interupt. Which was not the point.

Really good job dude being as usual obnoxious and spouting useless drivel.

 

I actually wonder why I have you not on ignore yet. Must be because you are still amusing with the exaggerated claims you shoot out of your rear.

 

So a heal from a commando/merc can = a instant cast shield (which is a heal since there is no offensive dispel in this game)?

 

WHOOP E DI DO!

 

Btw the hybrid spec sorc can do the same...

 

Go ahead and add me to ignore. I could care less.

[GrandMike]

So a heal from a commando/merc can = a instant cast shield (which is a heal since there is no offensive dispel in this game)?

 

WHOOP E DI DO!

 

Btw the hybrid spec sorc can do the same...

 

Go ahead and add me to ignore. I could care less.

 

I didnt know that merc/commando can heal only once in 20s? Is that something new?

 

+shiled=1heal sooo...if a heal crits heal>shield

 

Dropping shield instead of heal is stoopid.

Edited February 15, 2012 by GrandMike

[Elrathion]

First off great post that for once isn't just a compilation of assumptions of the sorc / sage. And you do tap it on the head to coin a phrase, The AoE stun on the shield and the root of the knock back, are in my opinion what makes the hybrid sorc so annoying.

 

I would like to suggest that Chain Lightning be removed from the Wrath proc. AoE does far to much damage in this game and I do believe that the hybrid spec (which I played to valor 54) is extremely powerful solely because of this.

 

I also don't think this post stresses enough on the hybrids Force Management: a good Hybrid will never be OOM. (oof ^^) Well talented, force lightning will regenerate 10 pts of force over its duration. That's worse than free spamming, you're actually regenerating whilst dealing damage and procing Wrath. Plus trowing in a lightning strike from time to time will up your force regeneration rate, so yeah, a Hybrid will not only have all the utility you rightly stated, but will also be done with any consideration to energy management.

 

Also, I don't think you put enough stress on the power of Electric Bindings against a melee class. This 5s doesn't affect resolve and therefore is in every aspect to a pure melee class a 5s lockout with no possible immunity.

 

A simple example:

 

As a marauder I pick out a sorc. A good marau / sent knows not to blow force leap strait of the bat because of KBs. So you approach, battering assault, rupture, assault, annihilate will break the shield so: 3s blind, the sorc then throws down an instant whilhwind, for another 8s lock out. I then run back up to the target who still hasn't used his KB, he then does. Now I'm at full resolve but I'll still be locked out for 5s by the root effect on the KB. So far I've been locked out for 16s. He uses Force Slow and Force Speed to widen the gap, by the time I get back in range of a force leap, he is no longer locked out of his Shield and my resolve is empty. 3s blind, into whilwind, into KB root. All this time I'm constantly locked out of combat, and he still has electrocute if I trinket out of CC without full resolve.

 

A sorc is a prime target for a marauder if the marauder can catch him, the sorc is also often a priority target. Yet if as a melee you go in alone, you'll spend 90% of your time looking at him without being able to deal more than 2 GCDs worth of damage at a time.

 

 

 

I would however like to come back to this point. A 4k crit on chain lightning would be the equiivalent of a 5k crit on Annihilate. On average I noticed CL criting for about 2.2k 2.5k, I would argue that I didn't get the 2.5k medal every game, so it doesn't crit above 2.5k every time. On my marauder I do get the medal every game, on average, Annihilate crits for 2.8k 3k.

 

Also, The marauder has the capability of stacking over a 1GCD overlap (1) the following:

The last tick of Ravage: approx 2.7k (A canalised ability, it doesn't spark off the GCD)

Annihilate: 3k

Retaliation: 1.2k (Off GCD)

Deadly Throw: 3k (if your target is at -20% hp, if not it would be Force Shout for a 2k crit)

+ DoTs that tick on every GCD, so 2x900 for Deadly Saber, and 2x400 for Rupture.

 

So we've got: 9.8k on the overlap of 1 GCD (2)

 

As a sorc you'll have the following over the same period of time:

The last tick of Force Lightning: 1000 (Canalised so no GCD)

Chain Lightning: 3k (I gave it a higher dmg than the one I've seen it do most of the time to prove my point)

Death Field: 2k

+ DoTs, CD ticks every GCD, but affliction is an extremely slow ticking DoT, so it would only tick once on a GCD overlap, so 2x400 + 400

 

So we'll have: 7.2k on the overlap of 1 GCD.

 

As I was saying to my guildies last night, the problem with the sorcs DPS is that it is very very constant and in that sense fairly high, but you really lack strong Spike damage that would take out a healed target.

 

In a way, I'm inclined to say that the Sorcs role in a battle isn't a main DPS role, they are utility in it's purest form.

 

Their CCs mean that as a melee, you'll just waste your time if you choose to target one that plays well. But on the other hand, he'll not kill you without making himself vulnerable to you. Understand the following: I've lost count of the time I've wasted running after a Sorc that just CC + ignored me, but I've killed every sorc that chose to stand and fight.

 

 

(1) By 1 GCD overlap I mean as in, you use one ability, the GCD starts, you use a second ability. This is 1GCD overlap. In both these examples I play on the fact that only instant abilities start of the GCD, so the first part of the GCD is in actual fact 2 abilities dealing damage simultaneously.

 

(2) Feel free to re-do the math if you think these values (that are those that I generally see) are incorrect, the fact will remain that the Sorcs potentiel spike will allways be lower than that of a pure DPS class like the Marauder / Sentinel or Sniper / Gunslinger. (bare in minde also that in order to get to this spike, the Marauder would have allready laid down around 5-6k dmg)

 

 

 

But +1 all the same, as a sorc the "Run Hide Heal" is far to easy, a full CC based Hybrid can run from one side of the map to another pulling along multiple melee classes that would be lucky to get him to 50% health before he can sprint out away, bubble up...

 

My Sorc spec FYI

 

There are some truths and some flaws w what you say.

 

Firstoff, I'd like to take you on your damage calculation. The 7.2k is a really optimisic number vs most classes. I'd say 5-6k is more realistic vs equally geared classes.

 

Any tanky class, or classes w cd's i often notice hitting 400-500 telek throws, with crits for 800'ish. [and I'm quite geared, several bm pieces, rakata mods, bm main and generator].

 

So yes, we hardly have the consistant burst to kill someone fast who's geared, we need to win by attrition. Typically in warzones that makes it that either we find bad geared players to burst down fast or we cc and run. Because fights need to end fast or backup will always appear. If you suggest not allowing CL to proc off POM, you're basically killing ANY burst we have. Rediculous.

 

Yes cc sucks, but a good player will know how to time things to not let a sorcerer/sage get away. And even if they can get away, so what, they lose time running you lose time chasing. Don't you think we'd much rather stay and kill you?

 

About hybrid force: if you have enough points in telek you'll never oom, if you're a tri-hybrid, you will oom.

Edited February 15, 2012 by Elrathion

[Orangerascal]

Those vids prove everything! Screw experience, screw all the healers rerolling to sage and doing better. This video from pre 50 bracket proves everything!

 

I'm sure you have some sort of evidence. A survey, polls, maybe some metrics on alts ..... oh wait you don't.

 

You're accusing him of the same thing you're guilty of. In my world, we call that hypocrisy

Edited February 15, 2012 by Orangerascal

[GrandMike]

snip

 

1.Few corrections:

 

KB adds 4 bars of resolve root or no root.

 

When resolve is full no KB or root happens

 

Breakable CC is useless for a class that must rely on dots. Thats why root has to be considered only 2s in any consideration

 

TT 1k crits happen only on ungeared light targets. same as 3k TK/CL hits. On heavy geared targets its 300/500. And im Rakata/BM geared.

 

You presume sage/sorc has been stationary channeling TT and procced POM AND has MC active (which again requires either induction or procced POM -> more standing around)

 

So, those numbers are not possible on the move. On the move even full balance sage drops to appalingly low DPS. Other classes spamming basic free attack have much more DPS on the move.

 

2. Can you post Sorc/Sage DPS count in next 5-6 GCDs provided he has to be on the move (slowed of course)

 

3. Yah, sorc/sage can prolly run away from everything, that apparently makes him OP, lets disregard the fact that theres very few classes that it can actually kill and no certain kill classes

 

4. Even in "super duper" DPS spec any sage/sorc worth their weight will tell you same thing: DPS is small compared to pretty much everything else and prime duty is utility

 

5. So if you want to take utility away you have to give DPS. That would only make more baddies QQ cause sages/sorcs would just kill em faster that they do now.

Edited February 15, 2012 by GrandMike

[SicNNasty]

...

 

...

 

You've both just proven the point I was trying to make.

 

1 He will run, you will not die, he's not doing to much dmg, and if he stops he dies. It was the point, it's a form of balance even if it isn't a very fun one for the melee chasing him. But what? Should that melee just let him do his thing and notice he did top DPS at the end of the match?

 

2 I voluntarily over shot the dmg of the sorc in my calaculation to prove my point: the sorc has no spike damage capable of killing a healed target unlike to marauder or sniper. (cf signature) The dmg is constant but lacks that extra "pow" to finish of the target.

 

3 Check my linked sorc spec which I used to reach valor 54. Yes it is the heavy CC, never OOM build, that's why I linked it so that peeps wouldn't feel the need to tell me what build uses it

 

4 Yes I do beleive Chain Lighting shouldn't proc on wrath. I feel Lighning Strike should have a 10-15% dmg increase to compensate. AoE dmg is just to high, when you end up using AoE skills on a single target (normal hybrid sorc rotation uses CL and DF even on single targets), then you know the AoE is doing to much dmg. Thoug what I would say is that I've come to laugh at sorcs who play this build vs my marauder: Kick the Force Lightning to reduce his chances of procing wrath, and when i does, I mitigate 30% of dmg from AoE, so he's using the extra 16 points of force to do the same dmg approximately as Lighning Strike would do, without proccing the Force Regen boost.

 

5 I personnaly don't care what anybody says, I know my own worth in a pvp enviroment (lol at the guy thinking pvp is of lesser quality on RP servers, come to daddy ^^), and I played sorc hybrid to valor 54, so yes I do know what I'm talking about when I say that the hybrid build is over powered in the following sense: it gives more: CC, DPS and Force management than any of the "normal" builds. It is my firm belief, and this since day one playing a sorc, that they are far to tanky for a Ranged DD.

 

Anyway, whether Bioware think that this makes sense or not is up to them, I think it's too much when in good hands, but then again, so is any class when it's well played.

 

Have fun and happy hunting!

[GrandMike]

You've both just proven the point I was trying to make.

 

1 He will run, you will not die, he's not doing to much dmg, and if he stops he dies. It was the point, it's a form of balance even if it isn't a very fun one for the melee chasing him. But what? Should that melee just let him do his thing and notice he did top DPS at the end of the match?

 

2 I voluntarily over shot the dmg of the sorc in my calaculation to prove my point: the sorc has no spike damage capable of killing a healed target unlike to marauder or sniper. (cf signature) The dmg is constant but lacks that extra "pow" to finish of the target.

 

3 Check my linked sorc spec which I used to reach valor 54. Yes it is the heavy CC, never OOM build, that's why I linked it so that peeps wouldn't feel the need to tell me what build uses it

 

4 Yes I do beleive Chain Lighting shouldn't proc on wrath. I feel Lighning Strike should have a 10-15% dmg increase to compensate. AoE dmg is just to high, when you end up using AoE skills on a single target (normal hybrid sorc rotation uses CL and DF even on single targets), then you know the AoE is doing to much dmg. Thoug what I would say is that I've come to laugh at sorcs who play this build vs my marauder: Kick the Force Lightning to reduce his chances of procing wrath, and when i does, I mitigate 30% of dmg from AoE, so he's using the extra 16 points of force to do the same dmg approximately as Lighning Strike would do, without proccing the Force Regen boost.

 

5 I personnaly don't care what anybody says, I know my own worth in a pvp enviroment (lol at the guy thinking pvp is of lesser quality on RP servers, come to daddy ^^), and I played sorc hybrid to valor 54, so yes I do know what I'm talking about when I say that the hybrid build is over powered in the following sense: it gives more: CC, DPS and Force management than any of the "normal" builds. It is my firm belief, and this since day one playing a sorc, that they are far to tanky for a Ranged DD.

 

Anyway, whether Bioware think that this makes sense or not is up to them, I think it's too much when in good hands, but then again, so is any class when it's well played.

 

Have fun and happy hunting!

 

1. And running away from sorc cause he has no chance IS fun?

 

2. Pretty much. thats why all utility is there and sorc needs to use it all to even stand a chance

 

3. I have smilar build and i am 63 valor without Ilum farming

 

4. Its not OP, 1 AoE is 3 targets free target 15s CD, another is 6s CD 5 targets with either POM proc or 3s cast time. Neither hits hard. Other skills are underpowered. Especially top tree skills. They need serious buff. Then its either/either.

 

5. see 4. hybrid is not OP, it has very simple general counter and quite a few hard class counters. Its not my fault that tarribads let me free channel whole WZ. In a bit advanced gameplay playing sage is...very challenging or you eat dirt during whole WZ.

 

What is underpowered are top tree skills and they need serious buff.

Edited February 15, 2012 by GrandMike

[da_krall]

If you scroll up you'd see that the old thread reached 1000+ posts and the GM made restarted it in a new thread while locking the old one.

 

Yes there are lots of stupid people on the forums who try and get everything nerfed because it beat them instead of figuring out why it beat them.

 

Easiest class to kill as a sorc is a sorc....if you cant kill a sorc as your class you are a healer.

 

the sad thing is that bioware has no idea about its own game or it own pvp so they seem to just be listening to the *********** stupid masses.

Edited February 15, 2012 by da_krall

[me_unknown]

actually it is not worth this discussion.

 

i never ever saw a skilled palyer whining about his class being underpowered or others overpowered EVEN IF IT WAS TRUE!

 

never!

 

skilled players may discuss certain aspects or even live with it but you can tell by how these overpowered cry posts are made that the authors have absolutely no clue about their class, the class they think is op and especially not about pvp at all!

 

so i beg all the others to stop wasting your time trying to explain things to people that do not want to listen and aren't able to comprehend what you are talking => less spam on the forums

[GrandMike]

Yes there are lots of stupid people on the forums who try and get everything nerfed because it beat them instead of figuring out why it beat them.

 

Easiest class to kill as a sorc is a sorc....if you cant kill a sorc as your class you are a healer.

 

the sad thing is that bioware has no idea about its own game or it own pvp so they seem to just be listening to the *********** stupid masses.

 

Or the other sorc is a healer. Sustained low DPS<any healer spec.

Edited February 15, 2012 by GrandMike

[da_krall]

actually it is not worth this discussion.

 

i never ever saw a skilled palyer whining about his class being underpowered or others overpowered EVEN IF IT WAS TRUE!

 

never!

 

skilled players may discuss certain aspects or even live with it but you can tell by how these overpowered cry posts are made that the authors have absolutely no clue about their class, the class they think is op and especially not about pvp at all!

 

so i beg all the others to stop wasting your time trying to explain things to people that do not want to listen and aren't able to comprehend what you are talking => less spam on the forums

 

most of them are probably PvEers who are surpirsed they can die as it hasnt happened in PvE for the past 2 months.....

 

Though that isnt totally fair as the PvP community has turned to **** over the last 10 years. No teamwork, no studying builds, no studying opponents....just post NERF.

[GrandMike]

most of them are probably PvEers who are surpirsed they can die as it hasnt happened in PvE for the past 2 months.....

 

Though that isnt totally fair as the PvP community has turned to **** over the last 10 years. No teamwork, no studying builds, no studying opponents....just post NERF.

 

Heeey, BW made class and spec just for these - merc/commando

[Lormif]

Actually they started with the lore crap first. I didn't even like the extended universe outside one series. But if they are going to use lore to prove their point? They may as well be right...

This crap again, THE PRO NERF SIDE STARTED THE LORE.

[Illidor]

The only change that I feel needs to be made is to make the Overload root dispellable. Hell, all roots in this game need to be dispellable.

[Lormif]

.

 

5 I personnaly don't care what anybody says, I know my own worth in a pvp enviroment (lol at the guy thinking pvp is of lesser quality on RP servers, come to daddy ^^), and I played sorc hybrid to valor 54, so yes I do know what I'm talking about when I say that the hybrid build is over powered in the following sense: it gives more: CC, DPS and Force management than any of the "normal" builds. It is my firm belief, and this since day one playing a sorc, that they are far to tanky for a Ranged DD.

 

 

 

Have fun and happy hunting!

 

im valor 57, but somehow I know less then you?

 

We have already shown they do not have more Cc, or DPS then any other normal builds.. untalented the marauders have 10 CC abilities and WAY more burst.

[Meatnose]

im valor 57, but somehow I know less then you?

 

We have already shown they do not have more Cc, or DPS then any other normal builds.. untalented the marauders have 10 CC abilities and WAY more burst.

 

What game are you playing? From your post I would confirm that you do "know less" as you put it. Marauders / Sentinels don't have **** for CC. They have a 4 sec channel stun and an aoe stun that breaks on damage. I'm not sure where you are getting 10 out of that. You don't know anything it sounds like.

[Waagabond]

most of them are probably PvEers who are surpirsed they can die as it hasnt happened in PvE for the past 2 months.....

 

Though that isnt totally fair as the PvP community has turned to **** over the last 10 years. No teamwork, no studying builds, no studying opponents....just post NERF.

 

I have 10+ years of MMO PVP experience.

 

Daoc, war, Wow Arena etc.

 

Im a good player, I know this.

I can beat mediocre sages no worries, but with the scoundrel Im the rock to the scissor.

A great sorc vs me, its close to impossible to beat if they know what they are doing, or, atleast they will definately get away.

 

On my vanguard I can also take them on, depending on situation however.

 

When I call for a nerf its with experience in the baggage and looking at a team perspective.

 

This class fills so many roles there really is no reason to bring other classes then sorcs or sages for PVP and PVE at all. Great damage, great heals, best cc.

 

For PVE, you need a tank. For PVP, you just need a full team of sorcs.

 

Actually, ive started to see premades with sorcs lately, and honestly...its extremly hard to counter even if you are in a premade yourself.

 

The class is vital for pve progress and fills a nice role in pvp, an important one.

But not like its now.

 

No> Its the PVErs that is pvping that keeps protecting this class.

Hardcore pvpers are either very quiet and dont dare to say anything, or honestly admit it.

 

Seriously, give me one reason why you should roll another class but sorc if you want to PVP.

And Im not talking about fun factor or "what you want to play"

If you are a competative person and want to reach high, give me ONE reason why you should not roll a sorc over any other class?

[Lormif]

What game are you playing? From your post I would confirm that you do "know less" as you put it. Marauders / Sentinels don't have **** for CC. They have a 4 sec channel stun and an aoe stun that breaks on damage. I'm not sure where you are getting 10 out of that. You don't know anything it sounds like.

 

Force Camouflage - stealth run speed

Intimidating Roar - Untalented 6 second AOE stun/mes

Force Choke 3 second stun

Predation 10 second run speed increase for a group

Deadly Throw reduces healing to the target

Disruption interrupt

Crippling Slash 50% slow for 12 seconds

Cloak of Pain shield/reflect damage all in one

Saber Ward - reduces melee and tech defenses by 50% and reduces all force damage by 25% for 12 seconds, MUCH better then our shield which will last about 3 seconds for a static amount.

Force Charge- built in jump to target with an 2 second imobilize and interupt, giveing you a 30m itnerupt.

Cloak of Pain - shield