The reason Sorcerer/Sage CC is OP in PvP

[Lormif]

So wait...You think Jacen was stronger then Luke and that he was a non melee guy, never knew he went darkside and you don't even know he got killed by (won't spoil it for you), with Luke not even having to bother except doing some crap without even having to be there...

 

And you are telling people about lore???

At the point he became one with the force he was stronger then Luke..

 

BTW R.A. Salvatore sucks as well.

I am done with that...I doubt you will find many who agree with you there.

[Rallic]

At the point he became one with the force he was stronger then Luke..

 

 

I am done with that...I doubt you will find many who agree with you there.

 

I will as ra is just to sappy with a lot of stuff like 90% of his forgotten realms books.

Some of its good but the por lil me stuff he adds to hero and villan both just gets old.

[biowareftw]

At the point he became one with the force he was stronger then Luke..

 

 

I am done with that...I doubt you will find many who agree with you there.

 

Ok you win.

 

According to you in lore Jacen > Luke (you started this whole lore crap and don't even know your lore).

 

3 min sw/jk cooldown greater then bubble (so I guess you would rather we had the bubble and you had the 3 min cooldown).

 

Like I said I suggest you make a post stating that you think sorc bubble should be given to melee and you want their 3 min cooldown.

 

As far as the people calling the persons original posts BS?

 

All you have done is call people bad, insult them and bring up lore that you don't even know about. You mass report posts that clownstomp you in arguments, and try to get a thread that went 100 plus pages shut down, because it points to obvious flaws in the game design with hybrid specs that no other class is allowed to have (without being nerfed).

 

We have given suggestions on how to fix it without hurting any 31 point spec, or pve viability, or dps viablity as dmg.

 

You respond with l2p, you are bad and insults, and you are the ones reporting posts/threads?

 

Too funny. Done with this thread. Why? I actually want to play this game tonight and not argue with people who are just going to end up screwing themselves when this class is nerfed to the ground due to it being stupidly overplayed.

 

Screw my suggestions. Game is perfectly balanced at release (cus ops/scoundrels were perfectly balanced right), people are rerolling to your class cus it is challenging (LOL) and balanced.

 

3 months later...

 

TO THE GROUND. I will be laughing when it happens. You all deserve it.

[Lormif]

So wait...You think Jacen was stronger then Luke and that he was a non melee guy, never knew he went darkside and you don't even know he got killed by (won't spoil it for you), with Luke not even having to bother except doing some crap without even having to be there...

 

And you are telling people about lore???

 

BTW R.A. Salvatore sucks as well. If you want a GOOD modern writer try Robert Jordan or George R.R. Martin. I did like Zahn's series but that is because he seemed to "get it". They should have made those the next 3 movies instead of the craptastic episodes 1-3.

 

Here let me save you the time of reading badly written books.

 

Luke > Everyone.

 

During the Battle of Yuuzhan'tar, Luke reached a state of Oneness. He was described as a maelstrom of luminous Force energy, against which there was no shelter. So calm and focused was he that his actions were not interrupted by any thought. Luke merged with the Force to such a degree that the Jedi Master did not seem to be there, physically or as an individual personality. Luke's control over his lightsaber blade was so great that he was said to might as well have been wielding ten, or twenty lightsabers against the Vong. The Solo twins were astounded seeing their uncle in such a state

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Luke_Skywalker

 

Luke vs Jacen in the octagon

 

.0000000000000001 second fatality... It wouldn't even have been a fight lol.

btw I looked at that wiki and it said his sister killed him with luke's help... 2 on 1.....

[Lormif]

Ok you win.

 

According to you in lore Jacen > Luke (you started this whole lore crap and don't even know your lore).

Again, I did not.. He asked where in lore had there been a super powerful consular, and I responded. How is that me starting it? and I do know it..

 

3 min sw/jk cooldown greater then bubble (so I guess you would rather we had the bubble and you had the 3 min cooldown).

 

Like I said I suggest you make a post stating that you think sorc bubble should be given to melee and you want their 3 min cooldown.

 

I dont care who has it.

 

As far as the people calling the persons original posts BS?

 

All you have done is call people bad, insult them and bring up lore that you don't even know about. You mass report posts that clownstomp you in arguments, and try to get a thread that went 100 plus pages shut down, because it points to obvious flaws in the game design with hybrid specs that no other class is allowed to have (without being nerfed).

 

Actually that is a red herring there. I have brought up fact, pointed out logical errors, math and such.. That is more then just call people bad (WHICH I NEVER DID)

 

 

We have given suggestions on how to fix it without hurting any 31 point spec, or pve viability, or dps viablity as dmg.

 

You respond with l2p, you are bad and insults, and you are the ones reporting posts/threads?

 

Please show me once where I said l2p, or you are bad? and I have never reported anything.

 

EDIT one more things

 

I actually want to play this game tonight and not argue with people who are just going to end up screwing themselves when this class is nerfed to the ground due to it being stupidly overplayed.

 

Overplayed huh? It wont be nerfed because it is overplayed.. IF it is nerfed it will be because the developers have an issue with something, and ill be fine with that.

Edited February 15, 2012 by Lormif

[wwkingms]

He is smart enough to realize that dots are rolling on the target which is why your burst is lower then other classes...Add to that it is an instant cast off a proc and has no cast time like say...grav round or tracer missile.

 

Keep calling people bad though.

 

yep cause affliction is blowing people away

[VoidSpectre]

I think it's dumb how people pick a single small point in the OP and say he is wrong. When clearly the issue is not that sorcs have one powerful tool, it's that they have access to many many powerful tools in the hybrid spec.

 

 

People called operatives OP because that had one insane tool: burst DPS. they nerfed that. in this the sorc defenders are saying "we don't have any one thing that is that insane" and that's true. it's not one thing it's how many great tools they do have in one class. it's too many

Edited February 15, 2012 by VoidSpectre

[wwkingms]

I think it's dumb how people pick a single small point in the OP and say he is wrong. When clearly the issue is not that sorcs have one powerful tool, it's that they have access to many many powerful tools in the hybrid spec.

 

 

People called operatives OP because that had one insane tool: burst DPS. they nerfed that. in this the sorc defenders are saying "we don't have any one thing that is that insane" and that's true. it's not one thing it's how many great tools they do have in one class. it's too many

 

oh did they?

cause geared ops still open on me for 5k, vanish, reopen for 5k

 

all while i have no control over my toon

[TetraCleric]

Anakin Solo was immensely more powerful than Luke, and Luke admits that. GG.

[Aramtrueshot]

oh did they?

cause geared ops still open on me for 5k, vanish, reopen for 5k

 

all while i have no control over my toon

 

Flat out lie, or you are running around with no armor on.

 

I'm a battlemaster op, using everything and only missing 3 pieces of bm gear.. I have gotten the 5k medal twice in the last two week and it was on a complete newbie. most of the time I am lucky to get a sorc down to half health after blowing all my crap on them... then they get range, snare, stun, spam lightning and if they are not stupid I will never touch them again.. and if I do the stupid bubble is up to absorb my opener again.

 

We all know sorcs are gonna get nerfed, and if they don't it will be biowares last ditch effort to try and keep subscriptions from the player base that appears to be a majority lightning spammers...

 

Game is dead pvp wise... on a ventilator at best. Anyone who has played an mmo with pvp in it, will realize this is one of the poorest implementations ever. Comical.

[shazariahl]

The problem with changing the lightning tree is that it's already the worst tree of the bunch. A pure lightning tree is behind a pure madness tree for dps, mobility, and has worse force regen mechanics (at least IMO). The only thing it has is utility (which even then instant WW in madness makes that debatable). And of course healers are going to go corruption, making lightning the least desireable tree by far. By nerfing the utility of the tree and just making the other talents "cost more" as you said, you're just ruining the tree.

 

Your proposed changes would basically remove all the utility from the lightning tree and move them higher up. That's fine, but what are you going to replace them with? You proposed making their lower tier talents cost more, but that's just a flat out nerf. If I need say 4 points to get 20% better shield, instead of 2 points, that's a nerf. If you do that with all the talents currently at the top of the tree, and make the current mid-level talents the top talents (or at least higher up), you've now nerfed the entire tree. Nerfing our worst tree will obviously eliminate hybrids, by it'll do it by just eliminate people using that tree at all.

 

Don't get me wrong - you'd still see healers grabbing the tier 1 talents and 20% boost to shields. You might see some madness sorcs doing the same, but to me that's just not good enough. Every tree should be viable for something, and every tree should serve a purpose. You can't turn sage/sorcerers into a 2 tree class while every other class has 3 trees.

 

You could try and make madness the pvp tree, corruption the healing tree (as is, basically), and lightning the raid/dps tree, but in that case the entire tree would have to be reworked. No raid players care about an AE knockback with root for boss fights - or a blind on their shield for that matter. Those talents that you seem to hate so much are useless for anything except pvp. And the lightning tree would need to have its damage increased - enough so that it would be clearly the better choice than madness for raiding. It would still have limited mobility, but that's ok because that's not a big deal in raids usually. But it would have to do significantly more damage than it currently does. Personally though, I don't like this idea, because I LIKE the idea of hybrids in all classes, not just sorcerers.

 

Right now ALL the hybrid sorcerer builds in PvP are popular (even healing hybrid builds - I'm playing a 21/2/18 build right now). That's not so much because hybrids are too powerful, as you keep claiming, but mostly because our 31 pt talents suck. An AE heal in PvP is useless in everything except VS, and though I don't use it anymore so I can't verify myself, I keep hearing that its still not working right. There's not much incentive to spend 31 points in a tree for a 31 pt talent that doesn't work properly. Our 31 pt lightning talent kinda sucks. The 31 pt madness is good for pvp, but only that, so no one's going to want it for raiding or leveling.

 

It comes down to this - even if our 31 pt talents were better, some people would still choose hybrid builds. And to me, that's fine. I'm not going to tell other people how to play and neither should you. Forcing people to do 31 pt builds destroys creativity and individualism. It forces a limited number of playstyles, and restricts people from trying new things. This doesn't just apply to sorcerers either - ALL classes should have multiple builds that are all viable, not just cookie cutter 31 pt builds that fall into strict categories.

[Tumri]

I'm not proposing a nerf to the Lightning tree. I'm proposing that the lower tier talents cost more while the higher tier talents cost less so that those two talents I talked about in the OP can be moved up to deny access to the hybrid specs. Full tree builds wouldn't be effected. Hybrid specs would still work but the CC heavy type would no longer be untouchable.

[Rallic]

Flat out lie, or you are running around with no armor on.

 

I'm a battlemaster op, using everything and only missing 3 pieces of bm gear.. I have gotten the 5k medal twice in the last two week and it was on a complete newbie. most of the time I am lucky to get a sorc down to half health after blowing all my crap on them... then they get range, snare, stun, spam lightning and if they are not stupid I will never touch them again.. and if I do the stupid bubble is up to absorb my opener again.

 

We all know sorcs are gonna get nerfed, and if they don't it will be biowares last ditch effort to try and keep subscriptions from the player base that appears to be a majority lightning spammers...

 

Game is dead pvp wise... on a ventilator at best. Anyone who has played an mmo with pvp in it, will realize this is one of the poorest implementations ever. Comical.

 

No sorc has ever got a 5k medal, cant use you med armor can't hide so who's op now

 

Yep ill give you ops are the poorest implementiation ever for being uber op . Healing , med armor, stealth, and highest dps of any class in a single hit.

 

Yep ops are just right

Edited February 15, 2012 by Rallic

[Telaan]

untouchable.

 

untouchable.

 

untouchable.

 

untouchable.

 

Dude, please stop exaggerating so bad. Sorc/Sage are so far from untouchable. I check in on this thread for laughs on occasion for these kind of posts specifically.

 

I am a JG. I do not find them untouchable at all. There are plenty of non-sorc/sage players of various classes that have said same thing in this thread. The fact is that every class can wipe the floor with a sorc/sage. This whole thread is as QQ as the ones about tracer missle. Is it annoying at times? Yup. OP? Hell no.

 

This notion that only people who defend the current state sorc/sage are the ones afraid of having their op class nerfed is another blatant falsehood in these tireless cry threads.

 

Frankly, you know you've lost an argument with people like Biowareftw supporting you.

[Kheld]

Sorcerors are STILL OP & will get a nerf sooner or later.

 

Thanks!

[kickinhead]

ever tried removing stuns/CC from your teammates?....

 

Really, this is ridiculous: 1 simple spell of any other sorc well played will completely shut down any stun/CC from the sorc.

Also, Learn how to position yourself so you don't have 5 ppl getting stunned by 1 Force Wave

 

Besides, the Bubble is pretty much everything a Sorc has against Burst-DMG and when ppl start to get that and start spiking targets, even the 20% increased absorption will be sth. to be laughed at.

 

This is nothing more than a well put-together whinethread of sm1 who has never played a sorc.

 

Basically, L2p.

Edited February 15, 2012 by kickinhead

[Tumri]

Untouchable as in they have enough CC and utility that no matter what crappy situation they're put in they have a way to deal with it better than others.

[Telaan]

ever tried removing stuns/CC from your teammates?....

 

Really, this is ridiculous: 1 simple spell of any other sorc well played will completely shut down any stun/CC from the sorc.

Also, Learn how to position yourself so you don't have 5 ppl getting stunned by 1 Force Wave

 

Basically, L2p.

 

Pretty much. There's so many bad people that PvP. I've mentioned dispell before. It was ignored then, it'll continue to be ignored.

 

As I said before: sometimes I'm glad BW ignores the forums.

Edited February 15, 2012 by Telaan

[Paulman]

What they could do is simply change Static Barrier/Kinetic collapase to be self-only. This could cut down the CC some but avoid having to mess up the trees. I think the sorc/sage is a well done class. It's the other classes that in fact have issues. Some of them need interrupts or escapes of their own.

 

Part of the problem is that it's a rock, paper, scissors game but they nerfed scissors to the ground. Another part of the problem is just people being stupid in general. One on one many classes have advantages over a sorc, especially with a hybrid spec. The hybrib spec is good at AoE and this is how the sages are able to put up good numbers. One way to avoid that damage is simply spread out.

 

They keep making more and more bad changes and it's just pushing people away. Honestly I think the classes were better balanced when the game came out.

[biowareftw]

Anakin Solo was immensely more powerful than Luke, and Luke admits that. GG.

 

George Lucas has already said that Anakin had roughly twice the force potential as Palpatine but after his duel with Obi-Wan he was left with about 80% of the potential as Palpatine. Luke on the other hand has the same force potential as his father before the injuries per Lucas.

 

But what would Lucas know. He only created the Star Wars Universe...

 

Seeing that Palpatine is about as strong as you can get without being "born of the force" or Anakin's son?

 

Pretty safe to say Luke became the most powerful character in the Star Wars Universe EVER. BTW at the time Anakin got halved? He would have never beat the emperor.

 

Just because at one time Vader was stronger then Luke and Luke may have said Anakin/Vader was at that point in the story stronger, doesn't mean Luke didn't become stupidly more powerful later on. Want to argue with someone about it? Take it up with Lucas. Reading comprehension fail and taking things out of context fail.

 

GG...

Edited February 15, 2012 by biowareftw

[Dregas]

Pretty much. There's so many bad people that PvP. I've mentioned dispell before. It was ignored than, it'll continue to be ignored.

 

As I said before: sometimes I'm glad BW ignores the forums.

 

Hey look guys! Another "everybody sucks and I am great" post! Please kind sir...your brilliance is too much for 90% of the game playing population to understand. Obviously no one has ever tried out other tactics or avoiding the cc entirely. Only one of you aptitude and leet skills could achieve such a feat.

 

Please master keyboard warrior I implore you...don't shine so brightly that you blind us all!

 

[Telaan]

Hey look guys! Another "everybody sucks and I am great" post! Please kind sir...your brilliance is too much for 90% of the game playing population to understand. Obviously no one has ever tried out other tactics or avoiding the cc entirely. Only one of you aptitude and leet skills could achieve such a feat.

 

Please master keyboard warrior I implore you...don't shine so brightly that you blind us all!

 

 

Yes, clearly because I'm pointing out obvious balances within the game it makes me so 1337. Basically, it's get on the bandwagon and cry nerf or g t f o right?

 

 

Try harder next time.

[Paulman]

George Lucas has already said that Anakin had roughly twice the force potential as Palpatine but after his duel with Obi-Wan he was left with about 80% of the potential as Palpatine. Luke on the other hand has the same force potential as his father before the injuries per Lucas.

 

But what would Lucas know. He only created the Star Wars Universe...

 

Seeing that Palpatine is about as strong as you can get without being "born of the force" or Anakin's son?

 

Pretty safe to say Luke became the most powerful character in the Star Wars Universe EVER. BTW at the time Anakin got halved? He would have never beat the emperor.

 

Just because at one time Vader was stronger then Luke and Luke may have said Anakin/Vader was at that point in the story stronger, doesn't mean Luke didn't become stupidly more powerful later on. Want to argue with someone about it? Take it up with Lucas. Reading comprehension fail and taking things out of context fail.

 

GG...

 

It is fiction. There is no proving anything to it.

Edited February 15, 2012 by Paulman

[Paulman]

ever tried removing stuns/CC from your teammates?....

 

Really, this is ridiculous: 1 simple spell of any other sorc well played will completely shut down any stun/CC from the sorc.

Also, Learn how to position yourself so you don't have 5 ppl getting stunned by 1 Force Wave

 

Besides, the Bubble is pretty much everything a Sorc has against Burst-DMG and when ppl start to get that and start spiking targets, even the 20% increased absorption will be sth. to be laughed at.

 

This is nothing more than a well put-together whinethread of sm1 who has never played a sorc.

 

Basically, L2p.

 

He does have a good point. Also many of the sorc abilities break on damage.

Edited February 15, 2012 by Paulman

[PloGreen]

George Lucas has already said that Anakin had roughly twice the force potential as Palpatine but after his duel with Obi-Wan he was left with about 80% of the potential as Palpatine. Luke on the other hand has the same force potential as his father before the injuries per Lucas.

 

But what would Lucas know. He only created the Star Wars Universe...

 

Seeing that Palpatine is about as strong as you can get without being "born of the force" or Anakin's son?

 

Pretty safe to say Luke became the most powerful character in the Star Wars Universe EVER. BTW at the time Anakin got halved? He would have never beat the emperor.

 

Just because at one time Vader was stronger then Luke and Luke may have said Anakin/Vader was at that point in the story stronger, doesn't mean Luke didn't become stupidly more powerful later on. Want to argue with someone about it? Take it up with Lucas. Reading comprehension fail and taking things out of context fail.

 

GG...

 

Please shut up about this crap, if you can't post anything related to the actual topic then start another thread in the relevant forum. I know your passionate about star wars but your hijacking someone else's thread. Thread is about whether a hybrid spec for is op (IMO it isnt) not whether luke can pee further than Darth Gary or whatever.