The reason Sorcerer/Sage CC is OP in PvP

[Zeuus]

Yes lol. So far the best I've done was ~530k in Voidstar in full PvE gear. I don't use a single piece of expertise gear because I ripped some of the mods out of whatever champion gear I got. No doubt I'm at a pretty severe disadvantage but it doesn't stop me much. I always beat the fully geared battlemaster Marauders on my server. If I'm up against a battlemaster geared player 1v1 I typically don't win since they get like a 30% advantage but I can typically play it smart and bait them into making mistakes that allow me to get kills(teammates FTW) or allow me to kill ball carriers(They chase me and I turn around and go after their ball carrier when they're far enough away). I had a Gladiator Hunter(S8 and S9) in WoW so I'm no stranger to PvP and Skill>All.

 

When I made this thread I didn't really think about my own person struggle against them. 9/10 of players fall over against me regardless of class. I just saw people using this amazing spec with incredible CC and that made me do my research. I found the spec incredibly overpowered and made this thread in an effort to rebalance them without killing the spec in PvP. I only suggested the most minor of changes because I'm not a fan of over-nerfing classes

 

 

So here's my issue. You play in PVE gear, ok whatever your choice. But you don't even play a Sorc. All you did was read tooltips and decide that they are OP. Seriously ***! Based on tooltips alone I could create a story for ANY class and say that they are OP.

 

You don't have any issue killing Sorc's, yet you call for nerfs to the class? You said it yourself that they pose no issue to your playing. Why do you want them nerfed?

 

I just don't understand why you would read tooltips and then decide the class without even playing it first.

 

There are so many flaws in your arguments that you still refuse to acknowledged. But you created an engaging thread. People from both sides of the fence have something to say.

 

 

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Here's what I would wish, go play a sorc to 50. Get at least your cent pvp set and then come back with comments and suggestions.

 

Right now you don't have all the information. Your posts are all opinion. Even with tooltips, your still only getting half of the story. Become a better player and get all your information.

 

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Bioware has stated that every class has a scale. Everyone is judged by that scale so they are balanced. If they feel abilites are performing not as intented then they will do something.

 

BUT they play the classes, they don't just read tooltips.

Edited February 15, 2012 by Zeuus

[Telaan]

So here's my issue. You play in PVE gear, ok whatever your choice. But you don't even play a Sorc. All you did was read tooltips and decide that they are OP. Seriously ***! Based on tooltips alone I could create a story for ANY class and say that they are OP.

 

You don't have any issue killing Sorc's, yet you call for nerfs to the class? You said it yourself that they pose no issue to your playing. Why do you want them nerfed?

 

I just don't understand why you would read tooltips and then decide the class without even playing it first.

 

There are so many flaws in your arguments that you still refuse to acknowledged. But you created an engaging thread. People from both sides of the fence have something to say.

 

 

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Here's what I would wish, go play a sorc to 50. Get at least your cent pvp set and then come back with comments and suggestions.

 

Right now you don't have all the information. Your posts are all opinion. Even with tooltips, your still only getting half of the story. Become a better player and get all your information.

 

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Bioware has stated that every class has a scale. Everyone is judged by that scale so they are balanced. If they feel abilites are performing not as intented then they will do something.

 

BUT they play the classes, they don't just read tooltips.

 

Well said, I agree. The problem is that this has turned into a nerf sorc/sage into the ground thread. Most arguments stem from dying in PvP and not liking it and result in posts that paint a picutre of completely unkillable sorc/sage players. It's why I've stated so many times in this thread that I'm sometimes glad BW mostly ignores the forums and bases the game on metrics.

 

The OP's point was that the bubble stun and aoe root following a knockback were OP. However, the bubble stun immediately breaks on damage and the root breaks on damage after 2 seconds. If you're having trouble with those things with all of the AoE and DoTs in this game, you can't be helped.

 

Additionally, most conditions can be dispelled. But, people rarely take advantage of this. Instead they come to the forums to cry nerf about abilties that already have multiple counters because they're bad or lazy. As I told the OP; you know you've lost an argument when biowareftw joins your side.

 

Either way, I'd still rather support a Sent with my JG any day of the week and twice on sunday over a sage. So, ultimately I'm ok with people thinking hybrid sorc/sage are OP. While they're trying to focus the sage, the Sent will destroy them in half the time the sage could've.

Edited February 15, 2012 by Telaan

[Blukz]

I love the game, have a post on how it's a great game, but even I must admit Sages/Sorcs need tuning.

 

Just played a huttball match against 6 sages, it's not the damage that's the problem. It's everything else.

 

Strong shield, decent heals, in combat sprint (great for carrying ball and catching up to ball carrier, and leaving enemy players in the dust), knockback on a really small cooldown, etc.

 

Bioware I love ya but I really hope you see this post and maybe even this message and pick up on the fact that Sages/Sorcs are dominating in PvP and even more so in Huttball. I get that Huttball is designed for ranged classes (which is completely stupid by the way), but cmon give the rest of us a break..

[Zhentarion]

Again this is getting to that Sorceres and sages Need to have

 

4 sec cast time on all spells!

One CC with 5 min CD

Breaker with 5 min CD

30% Dmg debuff vs Melee

 

 

all you damn whiners want are spell casters that are upfront with you all the time and cant run away

 

Funny you dont see ppl with blasters and missiles ofc the moves they have arent verry flashy ... and the melee classes have it bad.... gees get over your self

 

pvp is Fine L2p! all classes are fine L2P!

Edited February 15, 2012 by Zhentarion

[Blukz]

Again this is getting to that Sorceres and sages Need to have

 

4 sec cast time on all spells!

One CC with 5 min CD

Breaker with 5 min CD

30% Dmg debuff vs Melee

 

 

all you damn whiners want are spell casters that are upfront with you all the time and cant run away

 

Funny you dont see ppl with blasters and missiles ofc the moves they have arent verry flashy ... and the melee classes have it bad.... gees get over your self

 

pvp is Fine L2p! all classes are fine L2P!

 

Dude you're dumb. I can't wait till you play vs an all sage or all sorc team in huttball. You're going to get roflstomped before you can even react.

[Zhentarion]

lol 5 of the same classes in a ws is how you find out who is op lol

[Zhentarion]

Blukz if you cant kill a Sorcer or come close you Rly need to L2P

[Telaan]

Dude you're dumb. I can't wait till you play vs an all sage or all sorc team in huttball.

 

I'll bet he can't wait either. They suck. I'll take a team of JGs and van/mandos with no sages over a team of sages.

[Blukz]

Blukz if you cant kill a Sorcer or come close you Rly need to L2P

 

That's not what I said, dude. I said the damage is fine. Its their utility in huttball I don't like. Read my post and you'll see what I mean. In combat Sprint, shield and AOE KNOCKBACK on 10 or 15 sec CD makes them kings of Huttball...

[Karenai]

You see Sages/Sorcs with massive CC. Those are annoying.

 

Then you see Sages/Sorcs with massive damage numbers at the end of a game.

 

You also see Sages/Sorcs running around throwing instants on the run, killing you and three other guys.

 

Well, those are not the same. Either you specc massive cc OR massive damage and that damage is also either massive aoe OR hard hitting dots.

 

 

There are way more then one spec Sages/Sorcs are running around with, most of non Sages/Sorcs think just because you can spec it, everyone has.

 

To use ALL the cc you could spec with a hybrid, you end up with a frankenstein spec, with nothing but two core spells and WAY less damage+no movment at all.

[Zemoney]

The Sorc does a lot of "minor" dmg, has some CC's, can heal. What is all the QQ over nerfing them? They are good in Hutball, decent in the other two and will be non existant if arena's come out. 1v1 they are a joke vs. BH, OP, Melee if similar gear and players. They have no burst dmg and a 2 min. CC breaker.

 

Maybe you should wait until real PvP comes out before you start these OP Hutball threads. There is no way in hell that anything but a pure heal spec Sorc will be viable for good arena teams.

[Tumri]

Over and over people run out of arguments for Sorcerer being balanced in the CURRENT game environment so they talk about future potential game environments where they MIGHT be balanced. People have talked about a resolve rework, arenas, and even an alternate universe where WZs are 1v1 matches.

[Zhentarion]

Dmg is Fine that i dont get an all you say i would understand if Burst dmg of a sorcere was high but it aint and there is only one way a Caster can kill a melee that is kite and cc so plz tell me what you ppl want ?

 

i know you want to be on a caster al the time i get that

[Zhentarion]

Tumari you are a Marauder whats your problem is it that your class dont faceroll ppl enof ?

[Tumri]

Tumari you are a Marauder whats your problem is it that your class dont faceroll ppl enof ?

 

If Marauders are faceroll then every other class is butt to keyboard.

[Zhentarion]

dont rly get you ppl that whine about this .

cos if you cant kill or almoste kill a Sorcere you rly Need to l2p

[Zhentarion]

if you nerf the cc sorceres might as well just dance till you come and kill them

[Tumri]

1v1 a Sorcerer is middle of the pack in terms of usefulness.

 

Group PvP is not 1v1. In Group PvP Sorcerers are by far the best class in almost every situation. Their utility, CC, escapability, and AoE potential make them monsters in Warzones. Warzones are the ONLY PvP we currently have. Do NOT talk about potential Arenas they may or may not ever release. This is irrelevant.

 

Their CC needs to be toned down so that they are not such monsters in group PvP. They have more utility than any other class by far and to top it off most of their utility abilities are on SHORTER cooldowns despite being BETTER than similar CCs from other classes. It's not balanced for them for have Backlash on a hybrid spec build. It's not balanced for ANY class or spec to be able to toss out 4.5s CD Bubbles that have AoE CCs attached.

[Zhentarion]

so we get tunneld by a Marauder and die ?

[Tumri]

Can you at least try to make a decent argument instead of just saying "But we'll DIE!"

[Zhentarion]

and as i see it you want swtor to be cookie cutter game ?

 

you are blind cos of your own class that is clearly op aswell

Edited February 15, 2012 by Zhentarion

[Zhentarion]

i can only se a rework of the resolve would help not nerfing the Sorcere cc

[Zhentarion]

In Grp Pvp its clealy cos ppl dont play right

 

ppl tunnel instead of spreading out if you se some one get cc and tunneld by one you help stand at the right spots and so on

 

its how ppl play in Grp thats is a big problem then and not the class it self

 

all that nerf this nerf that its an endless cirkel that will never end cos if it was good first

and ppl didt know how to play in grp etc.

you distrupt the cirkel and the game will be in chaos

 

i took my class cos i like to be a dark side caster and i would gladly give up my CC if my dots would have more power and give debuffs on a player

[andytheape]

I guess this guy never heard of Resolve

[savionen]

I guess this guy never heard of Resolve

 

Resolve doesn't work on Roots or Snares.