The reason Sorcerer/Sage CC is OP in PvP

[Lormif]

You mean like Luke being by far the strongest Jedi or Sith ever. What was he?

 

How about Caedus?

 

About the only person that was a total bada@$ in lore that didn't totally rely on melee was palpatine and he still used melee and Cbaoth but Luke would have clownstomped him with melee when he was older (see Yuuzhan Vong War).

 

I seem to remember one Sith saying to one Jedi that their fight would have to move to lightsabers because the force was useless...Maybe you can help me with that "lore expert". I guess that doesn't count because it is from the films. In another fight Yoda and Palpatine got the sabers out. Why?

 

BTW all the extended universe books sucked outside of Zahn's (fantastic books) and the only reason I read them all the way through was boredom.

 

In lore? Non melee are weaksauce. So yeah. Good call.

 

in the lore outside of the films. How about the solo twins? Jacen was actually the most powerful that I know of, he became one with the force while living.

[Sirolos]

And I would tell them they are fools and defend your class. You seem to think we are here to try to "nerf you to the ground". We aren't. We simply want the class brought back to reality.

 

That can be done much easier and much safer, you seem to forget that people that play hybrids do it for

 

1. Instant Cast CL

2. CC

 

Moving the no cooldown talent up to 31 points WILL NOT KILL HYBRIDS WHEN YOU CAN STILL GET THE INSTANT CAST AOE's

It makes DoT full madness a late bloomer, not hybrids. And thats what needs to be toned down.

I think we can agree with that.

But the solution needs to be in a safe zone that makes it undesirable to go 11/20/11

Thats what Im fishing for, and no one has delivered.

There is nothing wrong with the full madness/balance spec other then being too easy to excel at, but you can say the same thing about mercs/commandos..

 

Nothing is wrong with full madness thats correct..

Easier than Merc/Commando's?

 

Your funny..

 

You seem to forget...Many of us beta tested this class or play it ourselves.

 

Then your solutions should be better.

No rudeness intended but your solutions dont fix the full problem.

 

You only switch the time it takes to cast and Instant cast AoE.

and you make it more desirable to go madness/ lighting..

 

Two roots will be what they gain in your switch.

Thats a problem

I cant even fathom the INSANE control this class would have with TWO roots.

 

 

How does my change kill the class? It wouldn't effect lightning (pve). It wouldn't effect healing (pve/pvp). It wouldn't effect a full balance/madness spec which you can still do as well or better then other ranged on in a warzone.

 

I'm sorry it wouldnt kill the class, my apologies..it would only switch the way people leveled. It still doesnt kill hybrids though.

 

 

Try playing other classes in the game at low levels who are completely ineffective until higher levels.

 

Try owning it up as a low level guardian/juggernaut in pvp...LOL.

 

Tried them out in beta.

 

I was one of the people that wanted a change to them BECAUSE they were late bloomers.

Its hard to compete in low levels..

 

But this game isnt balanced around low levels either.

It takes a a few hours to get from 1-20

around a day to go from 20-30

same for 30-40

 

its only at 45-50 that it slows down ( IMO again some people in my guild say its 30-40 thats the worst).

I have a lvl 50 Assassin. Its not an early flower, nor a late bloomer ( unless you go Deception).

 

That all being said.

No other class in this game requires the skill curve it takes to play a sentinal or guardian ( and their mirrors).

But IF you master them, you pretty much laugh at everything thrown at you. I watched Lina tear people to shreds, and win huttball games in a matter of 5 minutes ( or less) with a juggurnaut.

 

No other class will ever be as steep as them.

No matter what you move,change, or lower.

They are hardmode. Its what the pro's on my server are rerolling to and for good reason.

[Tumri]

For reference the 3.2k was pre-surge nerf, but I usually stacked power if I had the chance.

 

That's probably why. The sorcs I was using as an example were former surge stackers that wanted the big crits more than the sustained damage that power offered.

[Rallic]

And I would tell them they are fools and defend your class. You seem to think we are here to try to "nerf you to the ground". We aren't. We simply want the class brought back to reality.

 

There is nothing wrong with the full madness/balance spec other then being too easy to excel at, but you can say the same thing about mercs/commandos.

 

You seem to forget...Many of us beta tested this class or play it ourselves.

 

How does my change kill the class? It wouldn't effect lightning (pve). It wouldn't effect healing (pve/pvp). It wouldn't effect a full balance/madness spec which you can still do as well or better then other ranged on in a warzone.

 

The ONLY thing it would effect is the hybrid spec and low level pvp. Lighting is better for leveling anyways and if you think it is unfair that the class would be a late bloomer in pvp? Try playing other classes in the game at low levels who are completely ineffective until higher levels.

 

Try owning it up as a low level guardian/juggernaut in pvp...LOL.

 

lmao how many of you play it ?as there is like 40total people posted out of.both threads. So how many of you QQers that have PLAYED the class past level 15.

 

Let's take a pole screan shot your level of sorc , then let's see your /played on it and let's have a look at your valor so we van see if you even pvp.

 

First I do not think sorcs are op. Hybrid or other.

So

WE DO NOT won't class balance any ways we won't group/team balance. Rock paper scissors beats class any day.

 

Stop being bad ie pug solo Rambo hero and group up.

 

So many things in this game needing more time spent on it then classes .

 

This game is dieing, PvP sucks , Illum is a vary vary bad joke, and your QQing that sorcs have a cc you dont. That they do 1/2 the dmg a ops can, use light armor and the lowest life in the game.

 

Just for ***** and giggles I started calling sorcs op in Illum today, even said the patch nots for test said they was nerfing sorcs over the QQing on the forums.

 

No one liked the idea of it not a single player out of the 80+ there. O and there was 10 sorcs there out of them all.

Other then weekly I don't play my sorc now as they just don't do the dps I can get from my assassin. O and ya he's a hybrid to , that nerf didt stop me from making a good hybrid spec .

 

So in short keep trolling the QQ out there , this game is dead for PvP if they do not fix it soon any ways.

[biowareftw]

in the lore outside of the films. How about the solo twins? Jacen was actually the most powerful that I know of, he became one with the force while living.

 

Luke was pretty much god incarnate. He had the same force potential as Anakin per Lucas. Was Jacen born of the force LOL.

 

This is where you can bring speculation that Anakin's birth was basically created in a lab but it is all non canon and reaching. It wouldn't matter anyways as noone else but Anakin's son would have the power to basically be born of the force.

 

Luke > everyone else but an Anakin (who would have reached his potential, and per Lucas would have been equal not greater) and it isn't even close. It was a Arthurian messianic tale about a messianic figure. Who was that messiah? Luke. No different then Rand al' THOR in the Wheel of Time series, or Jon Snow in A song of fire and ice (he is the son of rhaegar and lyanaa, but that is going to be the plot twist and is not yet known, even in the books).

 

The only reason so many people love Jacen is he is an emo antihero. Same people probably like Twilight.

 

Luke could have killed Jacen in seconds. Do not pass go. He was the messiah of the whole series. He would have killed Revan in seconds as well.

Edited February 15, 2012 by biowareftw

[Lormif]

Luke was pretty much god incarnate. He had the same force potential as Anakin per Lucas. Was Jacen born of the force LOL.

 

This is where you can bring speculation that Anakin's birth was basically created in a lab but it is all non canon and reaching.

 

Luke > everyone else but an Anakin (who would have reached his potential) and it isn't even close. It was a Arthurian messianic tale about a messianic figure. Who was that messiah? Luke. No different then Rand al' THOR in the Wheel of Time series, or Jon Snow in A song of fire and ice (he is the son of rhaegar and lyanaa, but that is going to be the plot twist and is not yet known, even in the books).

 

The only reason so many people love Jacen is he is an emo antihero. Same people probably like Twilight.

 

Luke could have killed Jacen in seconds. Do not pass go. He was the messiah of the whole series. He would have killed Revan in seconds as well.

And then Jacen was the messiah in the new jedi order. He figured out how to destroy that generations empire, become one with the force (actually completing the prophecy everything thought Luke would in unifying the force). Then there was lea who Luke when tested her said he had never seen someone with as much force potential.

[biowareftw]

And then Jacen was the messiah in the new jedi order. He figured out how to destroy that generations empire, become one with the force (actually completing the prophecy everything thought Luke would in unifying the force). Then there was lea who Luke when tested her said he had never seen someone with as much force potential.

 

Did that include himself? Keep reaching. Luke was = to Vader (whom is more powerful then all but a handful of people in the entire history of the Star Wars Universe) in a year of training, much of it self taught.

 

BTW the balance of the force prophecy was about Anakin, because he was born of the force. Whether your interpretation is based on him being the father of Luke or him killing the emperor it doesn't matter. It was Anakin who was born of the force.

 

Off topic anyways. What class was Jacen/Caedus. Did he throw pebbles at people?

 

How many sage/sorc do you see running around with the name ROFL.

 

BTW Kevin Anderson is about the biggest hack writer I have ever read as are all the other writers outside Zahn.

 

Keep being a Caedus fanboy. It wasn't that Luke couldn't clownstomp him in seconds, it was that he didn't have to and someone else needed to learn something. Luke had no competition at that point, in the past, in the future or ever.

[Lormif]

Did that include himself? Keep reaching. Luke was = to Vader (whom is more powerful then all but a handful of people in the entire history of the Star Wars Universe) in a year of training, much of it self taught.

 

BTW the balance of the force prophecy was about Anakin, because he was born of the force. Whether your interpretation is based on him being the father of Luke or him killing the emperor it doesn't matter. It was Anakin who was born of the force.

 

Off topic anyways. What class was Jacen/Caedus. Did he throw pebbles at people?

 

How many sage/sorc do you see running around with the name ROFL.

 

BTW Kevin Anderson is about the biggest hack writer I have ever read as are all the other writers outside Zahn.

 

Keep being a Caedus fanboy. It wasn't that Luke couldn't clownstomp him in seconds, it was that he didn't have to and someone else needed to learn something. Luke had no competition at that point, in the past, in the future or ever.

 

 

he was consular..As for how many I see, I actually have seen a lot, with different spellings.

 

Also I have never read where he turned into a sith, work and school took my time, however while look may have been "born of a god", when it came down to it, Jacen BECAME a god. When he was one with force he was capable of doing anything..

 

As for being a fanboy I am more of a fan of Mara.

 

also one of the best writers, R.A Salvatore wrote a good section of that series, and lucas approved everything.

Edited February 15, 2012 by Lormif

[GeriMage]

You mean like Luke being by far the strongest Jedi or Sith ever. What was he?

 

How about Caedus?

 

About the only person that was a total bada@$ in lore that didn't totally rely on melee was palpatine and he still used melee and Cbaoth but Luke would have clownstomped him with melee when he was older (see Yuuzhan Vong War).

 

I seem to remember one Sith saying to one Jedi that their fight would have to move to lightsabers because the force was useless...Maybe you can help me with that "lore expert". I guess that doesn't count because it is from the films. In another fight Yoda and Palpatine got the sabers out. Why?

 

BTW all the extended universe books sucked outside of Zahn's (fantastic books) and the only reason I read them all the way through was boredom.

 

In lore? Non melee are weaksauce. So yeah. Good call.

You do know that Luke was using force lightning when he was the emperor's apprentice don't you? If you really believe what you say then you are ignorant.

[bellok]

he was consular..As for how many I see, I actually have seen a lot, with different spellings.

 

Also I have never read where he turned into a sith, work and school took my time, however while look may have been "born of a god", when it came down to it, Jacen BECAME a god. When he was one with force he was capable of doing anything..

 

As for being a fanboy I am more of a fan of Mara.

 

also one of the best writers, R.A Salvatore wrote a good section of that series, and lucas approved everything.

 

Wow.....

[Lormif]

You do know that Luke was using force lightning when he was the emperor's apprentice don't you? If you really believe what you say then you are ignorant.

 

You also have to realize that the consular really was not defined at that point in the lore makeup. It was not really till later, when I think Lea was training and such that they started to think of diplomats being jedi, which eventually became the consular.. I think if there were more defined roles earlier in the lore they may have had clearer roles.

[Lormif]

Wow.....

 

nice informative post?

[bellok]

nice informative post?

 

yeah and your posts in this thread is completely off subject, and incredibly nerdy.

[Lormif]

yeah and your posts in this thread is completely off subject, and incredibly nerdy.

 

Actually it was the other commenter who took us off topic, I just happened to follow him.. Yes I am a geek.

[GeriMage]

yeah and your posts in this thread is completely off subject, and incredibly nerdy.

 

Well welcome to our world SW fans are sometimes nerdy yeah He had a comment on subject and then he got flamed so he's defending himself against someone who is ignorant as hell and acting like a 12 yr old.... nvm.

[Aidank]

Leia isn't even sort of similar to consulars ingame, and even if she was, han solo plays a far bigger role in the original series and smugglers are the least played class in the game.

 

 

 

People play consulars because they're absurdly easy to do well on, not because star wars was all about consulars.

Edited February 15, 2012 by Aidank

[Rallic]

So why is it that snipers mercs and the like have dark side taint all over there facethey dont use tje force

[Lormif]

Leia isn't even sort of similar to consulars ingame, and even if she was, han solo plays a far bigger role in the original series and smugglers are the least played class in the game.

 

 

 

People play consulars because they're absurdly easy to do well on, not because star wars was all about consulars.

 

So all of these consular somehow magically knew before they played (the ones who were not in beta) how easy the class would be, or do you love making hasty generalization fallacies?

[Lormif]

So why is it that snipers mercs and the like have dark side taint all over there facethey dont use tje force

 

Using the force and being tied to the force are 2 entirely separate things. The idea is that everything you do, good or ill, is still tied to the force.. It is kinda like a Buddhist principle. You may not be a believer in the religion but you do still is part of it.

[bellok]

So all of these consular somehow magically knew before they played (the ones who were not in beta) how easy the class would be, or do you love making hasty generalization fallacies?

 

I actually played beta (not much tbh), I rolled a sage and went full seer unaware of the madness/telekinetic balance skills. Had I known about them then I still would be full seer because I like the healing part of the game.

[shadowAI]

Leia isn't even sort of similar to consulars ingame, and even if she was, han solo plays a far bigger role in the original series and smugglers are the least played class in the game.

 

 

 

People play consulars because they're absurdly easy to do well on, not because star wars was all about consulars.

 

You mean I was imagining things when I saw some dust cross the screen and smack darth vader in the face. I was sure it was a consular using telekinetic throw

[Talizzar]

Can we close this as after 10 pages there is no discussion of the OP topic.

[Aidank]

So all of these consular somehow magically knew before they played (the ones who were not in beta) how easy the class would be, or do you love making hasty generalization fallacies?

 

A. At least on my server, at release there were very few sages, 80% of consulars went shadow for the double sabers. (Sorcerers on the other hand...)

 

B. as soon as people started doing a lot of warzones and most people were 20-30 about a week into release, warzones were absolutely flooded with lvl 10-15 sorcerers, word spreads pretty damn fast in an mmo.

 

C. As for "generalization fallacies"

Edited February 15, 2012 by Aidank

[biowareftw]

he was consular..As for how many I see, I actually have seen a lot, with different spellings.

 

Also I have never read where he turned into a sith, work and school took my time, however while look may have been "born of a god", when it came down to it, Jacen BECAME a god. When he was one with force he was capable of doing anything..

 

As for being a fanboy I am more of a fan of Mara.

 

also one of the best writers, R.A Salvatore wrote a good section of that series, and lucas approved everything.

 

So wait...You think Jacen was stronger then Luke and that he was a non melee guy, never knew he went darkside and you don't even know he got killed by (won't spoil it for you), with Luke not even having to bother except doing some crap without even having to be there...

 

And you are telling people about lore???

 

BTW R.A. Salvatore sucks as well. If you want a GOOD modern writer try Robert Jordan or George R.R. Martin. I did like Zahn's series but that is because he seemed to "get it". They should have made those the next 3 movies instead of the craptastic episodes 1-3.

 

Here let me save you the time of reading badly written books.

 

Luke > Everyone.

 

During the Battle of Yuuzhan'tar, Luke reached a state of Oneness. He was described as a maelstrom of luminous Force energy, against which there was no shelter. So calm and focused was he that his actions were not interrupted by any thought. Luke merged with the Force to such a degree that the Jedi Master did not seem to be there, physically or as an individual personality. Luke's control over his lightsaber blade was so great that he was said to might as well have been wielding ten, or twenty lightsabers against the Vong. The Solo twins were astounded seeing their uncle in such a state

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Luke_Skywalker

 

Luke vs Jacen in the octagon

 

.0000000000000001 second fatality... It wouldn't even have been a fight lol.

[Rallic]

Can we close this as after 10 pages there is no discussion of the OP topic.

 

Why is that o I know , 60% of the op is bs