Would be so hard to change augments to only be put on at a mod station (seeing that you have to use a mod station to put the mk slot in), until the programmers from ITT Tech that work on star wars could actually work on a permanent solution (not that they know anything about that). Have fun with the next cartel pack.... and freezing up in warzones with a spectacular 16 people on the screen, while overclocked past 5ghz on a ivy bridge. Totally worth it to sub though. You can get some stunning looking mounts and armor, that are totally worth working towards, and give you a sense of accomplishment (LOL). Keep waiting for world pvp that is never going to happen due to a broken game engine that was used in clutch games like Faxion Online. Oh yeah...that game engine is FREE. Money well spent EA! Keep waiting for "lag fixes" that will never happen because it took them until an expansion to even fix a memory leak. Keep waiting for the game to skyrocket in popularity when the game engine is bad . Good luck getting "the masses" to ever play this pile of junk, when other game engines are so well optimized that they could damn near run on a smartphone. Keep waiting for fixes to teleport hacks, speedhacks, bot's, when they can't even get their game engine to work, let alone create one (instead they went with a free game engine and just modified it). Good luck with that ever happening. Using google is super hard. Keep waiting for this game to be an "esport" when no one worth a damn who has done competitive pvp in any mmo, thinks this game is anywhere remotely balanced, or even good. Good luck with ability delay ever being fixed.The game engine is broken. Deal with it. Unless they use a completely different game engine? Always going to be there. Good luck with developers so clueless that they thought, " We had expected our playerbase to play through the game and get to the endgame, on average, in about three to four months, maybe five months". http://www.pcgamer.com/2013/03/28/bioware-gdc-panel-star-wars-the-old-republic/ You know what though? Maybe they knew this game was garbage. Maybe they knew they had a memory leak (since we reported it in beta). Maybe they knew the game engine was garbage, and ability delay would just be a part of this game. Maybe they knew and just didn't care. So they did the smart thing. They came up with the CE store idea, and figured that even with a horrible game, you could make a ton of money off of dumb Star Wars fans with a cartel market. Let me sum up this forum. "Hey guys I am good at SWTOR pvp" E sport crowd - "who cares, the game is a joke". Casual MMO crowd - "game runs like @%$@". Enjoy wasting money and time!

^. I have tried multiple times to bring WoW players to this game, and RL friends. Each time BIoware/EA does something stupider then I thought possible. If I was not a fan of Bioware, I would not have been in this game day 1 of early access. EA? @$*& EA. I started to have doubts about this game with the CE store. I knew eventually where this was going and I believe this was their intent from day 1. In other games the really cool looking gear/mounts are not ONLY cartel market. You look forward to raiding to get an awesome looking weapon/mount etc. In this game? They purposely design raid/pvp content to look like @%@% all to make a bigger profit. All this game company has shown me is that they are interested in a) keeping subs they have at the expense of balance b) are not interested in anything past a profit margin, and really have no desire to ever make it better. They simply will fleece a new group of people, by getting them hooked with a decent single player game 1-50 c) will lie or act as if they don't know what you are talking about, when you bring up bugs. For this to be true not one person on the design team must play the game. The only reason I can imagine they do this, is that they invest a very small amount of money in pve/pvp design, coding, and a very large amount in figuring out how they can make more money and what they can get away with on the cartel market next So I can play this game in pve, to get crappy looking gear, nothing cool or unique, or I can pvp in a game with one guy running the show, who seems oblivious to bugs/problems or balance, and whose decisions seem to be run by a profit line. I wanted this game to kill WoW. Not because it was a bad game, but because I wanted Bioware (whom I was a big fan of) to be revolutionary in the genre (like Ultima Online was to me). Instead I got a broken engine WoW 2.0, with no QOL additions, with no pot of gold at the end of the rainbow to make me WANT to pve or pvp, that is making all the mistakes WoW did and one upping them. A game where hardcore play was not rewarded and no one cares about it, and a game where casual play is broken or simply not fun (for when I want to play with RL friends). If I didn't care about this game, and I didn't want it to succeed? I would have done the same thing I did with my Everquest CD. Made it a frisbee after 30 minutes of playing it. SWG I gave a much larger time investment (only because it was Star Wars). Anyways, whatever. These people can't argue my points, so they insult me instead. Could care less about them lol. I am not looking for RL friends on a MMO.

Oh no! Don't ignore me! When you can't debate, or argue anything? Put people on ignore! Can I put the pvp developer on ignore, or the customer service reps who told us we were imagining a memory leak that we reported in beta? That might be the only ignore I am interested in. The only guy I want to hear from that works at Bioware/EA is this dude. Best comedic performance of the decade. I think Bruce Maclean should be the new pvp dev. http://www.swtor.com/info/media/trailers/star-wars-old-republic-insider-episode-4 For those with crappy internet connections. That right there topped any story/cutscene outside the agent/jk story. The way the JK holds the saber above his head, right after he introduces himself? This might be the spiritual successor to Citizen Kane. BRILLIANT.

Alt tabbing is hard. Had the game on a backup HD partition, that I use to back up Hackintosh with time machine. Watching NFL draft coverage atm. Just played catch with my German Shepherd. Any thing else you people would like to know? Come on over, and you, me and my dog can have fun with Schutzhund commands. I am a Detroit Lions fan and the last book I read was A Memory of Light. Would you like a picture of my dog? If I remember right? The 11th is when my gameplay is done. You can post all you want when cancelling an account. I bought the DD edition. I was automatically given preferred (the first time this game bombed), along with a crappy looking mount (at release) that was designed by a 5 year old. Are you by chance the one person in charge of pvp balance/design on this game (probably got the job by being someone's relative at EA)? If so?

Yeah it is pretty laughable, when I can pop rebuke/cloak of pain BEFORE charging (10 seconds =LOL) on my rage marauder, and am now a stupidly hard to kill melee, where hitting me will only continue the process, oh and now I get free forcescream, and I am not screwing myself over with a crush/choke (wasting a smash). Oh yeah I also automatically slow now? HAHAHAHA. The funny thing? People who play this class are asking for BUFFS to zealous leap on this forum? ***? Before? People could CC lock me during rebuke/cloak of pain. That ain't happening anymore. It has become painfully obvious that they are just buffing the most played classes/specs to keep subs, and buffing pve support classes to stupidity, because pve players are the only people that are going to stick around. Sins/shadows are far more numerous then dps ops/scoundrels (pre 55 is not how this class should be judged), so my shadow is OP as hell and my scoundrel sucks. Smash was mass rolled so we can't nerf that! Screw annihilation/watchman though! I mean I understand what they are doing, but I don't have to like it. They are protecting a profit margin, but in doing so they are ruining pvp, making some classes completely useless and others way too strong. If you want to continue in this game? Roll a overpopulated spec/class, or play support. They are just holding onto subs as long as they can, and new subs won't know what is wrong until 55, where some classes become useless and healing/tanking becomes stupidly good. But whatever. Leveling was pretty fun (the first few times in beta), and the agent story/jk story were pretty good. I almost felt like I got a Kotor 3 with those 2 stories. I got screwed in buying the game originally, but I would totally reccomend this game as far as a single player game, or a casual pve only game. PvP? No. Never been great, has mostly been broke, and 2.0 made it even worse.

??? Are you calling me an anti-appleite? Apple HARDWARE is garbage and it always has been. I actually like their operating system, and things like Imovie (great for kids). Then again OSX it is just an GUI (stolen from Xerox) and it is really just Unix. Their software is very nice for people who don't know a lot about computers. Why would I ever buy an apple computer when I can make a Hackintosh though? The OS is 29 bucks...and building your own hackintosh is LEGAL. Why would I ever buy a apple phone when Samsung's are better? Am I supposed to go buy a glorified laptop, Imac to run osx, with a laptop video card, and inferior hardware, all so that I can pay twice as much for an inferior product with an apple on it? Now go back to thinking a PC with an apple on it isn't a PC, and that Steve Job's was in inventor. I am with this guy. GOAT comedian appearance on a TV show imo.

Mox? I often beat them on my shadow/scoundrel in pugs before 2.0. I was never impressed by any of them, when I got in their premades on my marauder/sniper. Chances are one of the people you thought was good was in that screenshot LOL. Give my marauder 3 healers? I am going to double the damage their scrub smasher does. Now a guild like Game Genie ( have run into them latenight)? Yeah that is a decent pvp guild. I doubt they will stay in this game, for the same reasons I am leaving, but they seemed to know what the hell they were doing lol. On republic side Hoth Ski Patrol was good. MoX? PvP? No lol.

This game is already in 2.0... I could care less what causes it. Exploit, bad game engine, cheap servers (bandwidth). I am not in beta. BTW I actually bought a couple level 28 augments. put them in the socket in a warzone. Almost 32 k health and my melee damage went up substantially. Good job Bioware/EA. Screw buying expensive augments. Just do this... I don't even want to think about what my marauder could do with this kind of exploit... Again the game engine problems were present in beta, and this exploit was present in the 2.0 beta. You would think this would be priority number 1. What did we get instead Tuesday? A cartel pack. You people seem to think I am struggling in pvp, or have ever struggled in pvp in this game. That is and has never been the issue. The issue is? I am no longer having fun, and the design team has given me no reason to put any faith in them. RL friends bolted long ago, because they weren't having fun. Or maybe I am bolting because I am WoW fanboy? Not at all. This game is simply WoW 2.0 in beta and behind WoW in everything except for graphics, which is offset by the horrible game engine. No WoW wasn't the first MMO. Meridian 59 was. Ultima Online was imo the best. That is all opinion though. My problems with the game are based on reality. Casual pvp with RL friends is not fun. Ranked pvp is not fun. Game engine/servers/exploits, or whatever they want to blame is unacceptable. Class balance is done by 1 guy, when they probably have hundreds working on the Cartel Market. This game is NEVER going to get any better, and I am sick of giving them 2nd, 3rd chances. Bioware/EA dug their own hole. They can lie in it. If anything I was a Bioware fanboy and this game had me more excited then any title in history. Now? I will never buy an EA or Bioware product again. -Pot5. Bruce-lëë, Bruce-campbëll, Dëathjester, Liu Kang

1) pvp gear is now capped at the lower end arena set in arenas/wz's. 2) I am having no problem kicking the @$@$ out of people in malevolent gear (that I had when I left). 3) When I want to play with friends who aren't "arena vets"? In5.3 I can go in a warzone where healers are capped/matched, and get a competitive game, and have fun with them. So yeah, WoW is bad...if you don't like being able to compete in high end pvp people care about, have fun with RL friends who are kind of "noobish" in non ranked.

Just played a game on my shadow. I think this speaks volumes. Solo queue against premade with 3 heals plus (pretty much all you ever see). http://i.imgur.com/yW9HTkf.jpg Other team was premade with 3 heals. Other team often lost pre 2.0 (memories of xendor pve guild) against pugs. Stupid buffs to healing, just make everyone afk, and let average players steamroll pugs. BTW? The balance in this game is so bad, if I played that same game on my scoundrel? I would struggle to kill anyone (no mitigation) and I sure as hell wouldn't have been downing their scoundrel healers (go go execute). Their heal sorc of course didn't die once. He would just go immune and get healed by the op's. Also yeah I am really horrible. I outdpsed their smasher with single target (infiltration), and my healer (1 vs 3) only died 3 times. I guess I fail because I can't kill 2 healers that become 3 with voice com. This game is simply broken. All that matters is healing. Immunity on a heal class when you can be healed is broken in a cap/hold game (I would have been fine with dps sorcs only getting this). Before 2.0? I could often overcome premades, less then perfect comps. Now? Average players in a premade are unbeatable, simply because healers make things so forgiving, and take such an obscene amount of time to kill, that you are never capturing anything. So what am I supposed to do? ONLY do premade pvp in NON RANKED? Stack 3 heals (cus you know my friends all played healers, oh wait only one did and he went back to WoW), so that I can do the same and out dps people 2 to 1 with no effort? Force all friends to roll support classes and roll one myself, just so I can have a ranked team?, where it is a big boring heal fest? This is where you rant about objectives, when I was permanently attached to their healers, and they died more then I did (LOL). So let me sum this up. I am playing a broken OP class compared to other melee (minus smash), and I mean nothing, even when outdamaging aoe derp specs who have 3 healers. Yeah that totally makes me want to do Warzones man. I am sure the kids who weren't attached to their healers who died to me in less then 5 seconds had fun! Add to that? All you see is this crap in non ranked, because there is no reason to do ranked. Game is broken. I don't know how anyone can think this is good. Now go buy some cartel packs you lemmings.

This game is simply no longer any fun to pvp in. "Main" Classes played. Marauder, Shadow, Scoundrel, Sniper Changes that completely baffle me in 2.0 and fundamental problems with the game. EA/Bioware being cheap on bandwidth in Warzones Last time I checked this was a SUB game if you want to pvp. I can understand GW2 being cheap with their servers in WvW, because that game has no monthly fee. In this game though? There is simply no excuse. Sitting there and endlessly hitting healers/tanks, and finally getting an opening to get a node, or down a healer, only to have a horrendous lag spike happen is inexcusable. Sick of the gear/money grind In vanilla this game didn't have stupid crap like augments. For a fully augmented set on my server it would have cost over 7 million credits...This is an absolute joke when you consider that some people might want to pve and pvp. Add to that? Why bother pvping, with this idiotic bolster system on endgame gear. Personally the money issue was never a problem for me. I had many slicers. For others? This is a huge block for players, and this bolster system is so idiotic and bug ridden that I have just given up on this development team to ever release things that aren't broke. As someone else posted? People like Apple products (personally I hate them), because they "work". This system is so stupidly complicated and unnecessary that I don't even know where to begin. Pre 55? Sure put a cap on gear. Hell make it simple. Give everyone the same stats. 55? What was wrong with recruit gear? How was that broken? Now we have pve crap better then pvp crap. Augment bugs. How does this even make it out of testing, when people TOLD you this was broken. You knew 2.0 better be good and just like Vanilla? You decided screw it. Let's release a broken game (memory leak was present from beta to right before 2.0, which to be honest is a joke). EA's priorities and complete ineptitude The first mistake was hiring PvP designers who designed pvp in other failed MMO's. This games budget was stupidly high. How about instead of hiring Hollywood actors to voice content, you ponied up some of that money and hired people who weren't complete failures at pvp design. BTW if you are going to hire Hollywood actors for voicing the game? Hire Bruce Campbell. Yeah that was a joke. Not as big a joke as the failures of this development team though. It took until right before an expansion to fix a memory leak. It took months of pvp players telling you bubblestun was stupid, to fix that. You release a patch and don't even fix bolster. You sure as @$%@ put out another cartel pack though didn't you... Class Balance and changes that make no sense This games pvp was doomed from creation as far as ranked when you decided that you needed 2 support classes in symbiotic gameplay to be effective. It required too many support classes in ranked, which is WHY it has been a complete failure and why no one cares about it. PvP in games like WoW where 1 healer per 2 dps is required is scorned by the pvp community often. You did them one better and made it half? Add to that you can't even create a dual spec system or an equipment manager, when you require these stupid support classes? Am I playing MMO's in reverse now? I am sorry but respeccing and moving my buttons around/gear is a huge pain in the @$@. I have no doubt that you will work on this in the future and perhaps in 2024, this system will be in the game and bug free. Until then? I expect a cartel pack introduced once a month... Crit change, buffing of support classes. Why? Who in their right mind told you that healing/tanking was weak before 2.0? Also who thought that more RNG and random procs on trinkets was a good idea? You require more coordinated burst on heals/tanks and then you make it even worse by making crap completely random? ***? Why is my rage marauder even BETTER then before. Why does my shadow have mitigation and burst and my scoundrel have no mitigation. Why is my shadow/sniper about the only classes that can deal with these stupid changes without an autocrit? Simply horrid balance all the way around. In 2.0 you basically made SWTOR healers, into WoW healers, but seemed to forget that tanking/guard and aoe taunts were in this game. In WoW I can CC lock a healer, shut out their heal school and kill dps. In this game? When that happens you have aoe taunts (derp let's remove the need for targeting), that negate you bursting down someone. Add to that? AOE heals are running. If I make a premade and stack heals I don't die...ever. What the hell fun is this? If I play ranked I am forced to endlessly hit classes where burst is non existent, and any dps you play better have mitigation or a healing debuff, or both. The pvp in this game is simply not fun, and it will never take off in competitive pvp. The one niche you had was that gearing was easy for the casual player, and this game was alt friendly. Now? Gearing is stupidly complicated, non pve pieces are better then pvp pieces, augments are simply too much money for my friends to bother (when they already think the pvp is average at best). The only people who might actually like current pvp is large guilds that run premades in non ranked, and think never dying is really cool. Awesome... Lastly? You never fix any of the real problems. Say commando/merc for instance. That class has real problems as does dps scoundrel/op. What do you do? Introduce a dumb "get screwed" ability on a long cooldown, that isn't fun for the merc/commando or the person playing against them. So we have counters to stealth classes (mainly) which screws over op/scoundrels more then anyone, yet we have no counter for healer immunity, where one healer can heal an immune healer? Anyways this is my last post on this forum. You can check my stats in WZ's Bioware. I bought the DE version of the game and joined this forum from pretty much day 1. I played beta, was appalled the game was released with a memory leak, and nothing you have done since has shown me that things will ever be "good" in this game, or worth a sub fee. My friends all left for WoW along time ago, and I am going back to join them. Not because it is perfect, but if I am going to pay 15 bucks a month for pvp? I am going to do it in a game that isn't often broken, is never/rarely fixed, and that actually has people working on the GAME and not freaking cartel packs. I might play this game until my sub runs out, but that is only because I am waiting for this patch to go live in WoW. Amazing what game companies can do when they aren't only concerned about cartel packs. http://wow.joystiq.com/2013/04/15/patch-5-3-ptr-role-check-in-battleground-queues/

The fact you think healers were underpowered before 2.0 shows how freakin clueless you are. WoW has a 1 to 3 ratio and people thought that was bad. GW2 has none. This game might as well be pve only, because the pve might be more exciting then a tank/heal fest in rateds...

Enjoy this dead game. http://wow.joystiq.com/2013/04/15/patch-5-3-ptr-role-check-in-battleground-queues/ Now the casuals will leave. You can play ranked against eachother in a game no one cares about lol. If you think healing was weak pre 2.0? You are either delusional or didn't play other MMO's. When 4 support classes are freakin required for ranked? That is a joke in itself. Now it is even worse. There is no improving. You just stack the same. Only problem? When you require 2-3 healers (people will prob just bring one tank now, and a few aoe taunt classes and 4-5 healers now, since aoe healing is LOL stupid)? The game is doomed to fail as far as "e-sport". People didn't leave one game that required 1 of 3 people be a healer, to now join a game where at least half are tanks/heals. Sorry this game isn't fun anymore. If I have healers on my team I don't die...at all. If I have no healers I might as well leave the game. Before 2.0, you could get beat in damage/kills, but you could win...sometimes. Now? You can't even do that, unless you are playing the dumbest people on earth. Ranked? Worst pvp I have ever played. You can hit a tank and do no damage, or a healer and do no damage. Eventually after you are bored to death in what feels like a freakin pve raid? Someone f's up, or a gigantic lag spike hits. There is no skill here. Aoe heals this strong are stupid. Not being able to lock someone out of a heal tree on a interrupt is stupid. Immunity on a healer that has no counter (like shattering throw) is stupid. Tanks in pvp is stupid (and that is why WoW is phasing them out). No offensive dispel is stupid. I am sorry but when you take an average player and put them on a dps class and they can do 300k, then put them on a healer and they can heal for a million? That is broken. When you can take an average player who sucks as a dps, and put him in a tank set, and they can press a couple attacks, spam an aoe slow, and taunt (which all hybrid dps already do), and all he has to do is follow the bouncing ball (his healer)? That is broken. Do me a favor. Google swtor pvp. Tell me who cares. No one. They took mediocre pvp and broke it further in 2.0. About the only fun this game provided was that you could solo queue and sometimes beat "ranked" teams, because the fact is most ranked teams are @%@. There is no reason for a casual to play this game, and no reason for a gamer who wants to be noticed in high rating pvp to play this game. Most people who play mmo's play with a friend or two. Requiring them to play heal/heal tank is the dumbest @%$^ I have ever seen. I have seen pve guilds who used to get STEAMROLLED, now dominating games with 3 heals and a tank and they are usually !*****ty enough to queue with 2 groups at the same time.

1) Healing and tanking was so powerful pre 2.0 that you brought FOUR of them in rateds. This is half your freakin team, which is WHY ranked will NEVER be popular in this game. 2) They made it so strong that facetanking clickers now take an obscene amount of time to kill and when you add guard/taunt to the mix? It is beyond broken. This is the WORST this game has ever been. When healers are on my team? I don't die at all. When the other team has less or none? Their dps dies in seconds. This is pure trash. I am sorry but running around and never even coming close to dying and killing people without healers in seconds isn't fun or challenging. When both sides have healers? It is the most boring combat I have ever seen, and you better stack the hell out of healing debuff classes and extreme burst classes *cough, my marauder, my sniper and my shadow*. Everyone else? Useless. 3) Giving "Ice Block/immunity" to a healing spec was the dumbest thing I have ever seen (other then team bubblestun), when there is no counter/dispels in this game like "shattering throw". DPS sorcs needed this. Healing sorcs did not. 4) In other games when healing is this strong, entire heal trees are shut out with interrupts. Not in this game. No offensive dispels and no TRUE lockout. It is just stupid and it is why healing/tanking duos were overpowered BEFORE 2.0, and that is WHY 4 were bought to ranked. Add to that? A tank in stealth guarding a node is about the dumbest thing I can imagine (other then all the other stupid @%$@ these devs have done). 5) Because ranked will NEVER be popular due to needing a minimum or four freakin support classes (newsflash, people play with friends and at most one played a healer for arena in WoW, and they alternated healing/dps among the 3), they sure as hell better balance this game around non ranked. This game is not even close to an e-sport. No one in their right mind is going to play a game where 4 freakin support classes are needed just to compete. 5) http://wow.joystiq.com/2013/04/15/patch-5-3-ptr-role-check-in-battleground-queues/ Do me a favor and google search swtor ladders. How about SWTOR pvp. See anyone caring outside this community? Nope. Want to know why? Because class balance is horrible, healing/tanking is beyond stupid. Taunts are stupid. Hitting a tank for no dmg is stupid. Hitting a healer for no damage is stupid. Other games like GW2/WoW are phasing out tanking (GW2 took healers out completely), because everyone who plays competitively knows it is stupid as hell. Since noone gives a damn about ranked in this game (why do you think noone does is), and most good players have bolted? You think people are going to stay around for this crap, when they can go play a game where WZ's don't freeze lag (who knows if it is an exploit or not), and where healers are equal on both sides, and where peopele outside this forum give a damn about the pvp in the game? Now go play ranked against the other 1 team (if that) that is queuing up. I will go kill people in 5 seconds on my shadow, unless they have heals and I don't, in which case the game was lost on the queue, and I am picking on one kid, and spawn camping him the whole game...that is until I do what I swore I would never do... Go back to WoW. I didn't think they could break this game more then they did with bubblestun. I was wrong...I have lost all faith in this game and it's developers. When my sub runs out? I won't even bother to kill people in 5 seconds anymore (which is stupid). If the lag thing isn't an exploit they are being cheap with pvp servers in a SUB GAME. This is ridiculous. Add to that they have 1 guy working on pvp? What the hell am I paying this company for?

Maybe you are low level, but I am pretty sure I have at least one CC. Also pretty sure I put forcecrush on someone after a smash (mo damage buff) forcescream before I choke them as well. This bar above their head seems to go left during it. It is rather entertaining. They make very interesting noises while it happens. Almost as if they are being choked.

LOL at you thinking the 55 bracket is anything special, with people running around with 350 k augments (each) and pooled points from other chars with legacy gear. I watched a ranked earlier. No calling targets. Derps just running around with heals and occasionally someone dying. No hard switches, no calling out healing debuffs. Nothing. Half the team on voice com didn't even know if they controlled a pylon (LOL). This has got to be the least skilled ranked, with the least talented playerbase playing ranked I have ever seen in an MMO. You can watch the stream, it is probably still on this page. I have 4 chars with maxed ranked/regulars. I can be the best geared anything tomorrow. Derp I wonder why I am picking the shadow first. Oh they and other characters have slicing. So while you idiots wasted 7-8 million for dead brackets full of undergeared scrubs, playing kids who blew their whole money stash? Smart people pocketed more money then you will ever see in this game on thermal's, when we read patch notes and understood that the price of them is going to skyrocket down on patch day, and THAT is when we will augment/gear our chars. Grats brah! My char will be better geared then yours on tuesday, with a !@$@ ton of cash. GG. Now go ask your mom to buy you some cartel packs. I could add that bolster is more f'd up at 55 then in any bracket, and most people don't even know about double procs on par/conq power trinkets. But yeah it is SRS business atm. The games are so intense man! Healing is perfectly balanced and all that matters is if you have a char with enough mitigation to make it easier on the healer, in a big battle of attrition lol. I wonder why they are fixing things at 55 on tuesday. I know! Because it is working so perfectly! But yeah you are right, higher health pools, with less crit damage for the op/scoundrel and still having jack @$@$ for mitigation, will surely make them better. Makes perfect sense.

We could at release...with smuggle. Let's just say, that was a little fubar. Besides. Marauder/sent now has saber throw on a low cooldown. Jug's/guardians have a throw. It really isn't THAT BIG an issue, and I really see it only being an issue with jugs/guardians with sabre throw being a longer cooldown. They also get force push though, which knocks people out of cover. I don't think it is perfect, or needed, but there are larger, more glaring problems with pvp then this.

You are one shotting tanks as carnage with ravage? Coolest story I ever heard man. Tell me more about this ravage ability. Does it autocrit to negate block as well? Inquiring minds want to know.

You going to link me a dps report in a Warzone (LOL), to dispute mitigation differences as well? I am looking eagerly forward to that ! Be sure and skip the screenshot of the warzone as well, and don't show protection done. Troll. Term used in a last ditch effort to defend what is clearly imbalanced, when all other arguments have been shot down, and the OP has made the people look like fools.

Translation. I wont provide a screenshot with protection shown. My parse is flawed due to not having protection/dmg reduction/armor buffs, taunts. I also won't parse something relevant to this discussion because the math is all there and it would just show how stupid it is for a stealth class to get this mitigation/cc immunity, and put out as much damage as a class who has none of that. Thanks for playing! P.S. How many dps scoundrels/op's were in that game. Oh yeah...no one brings them because a dps sin/shadow is now ranked viable in group fights, a better defender/capper, completely counters THE ONLY OTHER STEALTH CLASS, and can respec to 12/31/3 at anytime and be a completely viable defender (as in derp, I r can solo 3 people for awhile before I call for help), with the same rotation minus 1 button. So cool man. My shadow should be viable for ranked as tank, hybrid and dps, beat everything 1 v 1, be good in large scale fights. My scoundrel/op should only be viable as a healer. Makes perfect sense. Thanks for explaining this all to me. Delete one character after I spend my ranked on him, and never look back, or question stupid imbalances in the game. I simply shouldn't care that an entire AC gets screwed in favor of someone who parses warzones (LOL). Oh yeah and friends who rolled scoundrel/op? Just tell them sorry your class sucks. Roll sin noobs. You are only good for pre endgame warzones and killing f2p's LOL. And Bioware/EA wonders why this game continues to be a failure as far as anyone giving a damn about the pvp in it. It would take all of 5 minutes of looking at the trees, and playing both stealth classes for any decent WoW arena player to ask...what the hell were you thinking... I have come to the conclusion that this game just caters to the mass rolled classes to make money. They could care less about balance. So enjoy pvp in a game noone gives a damn about, because it gets worse with every patch. Then get rolled by people who think this game is a big joke.

What evidence? What are we comparing it to? Are the parses for other classes there? Are debuffs/armor buffs shown? How about taunts? Are those shown? Where is the screenshot for the warzone with damage done and dps per second? Where is the protection screenshot? What was his spec? Was he specced in increased dmg for players under 30 percent health? Was he specced into increased damage while people are stunned/knocked down on opener? I HAVE listed evidence. Both scoundrel/op/sin/shadow trees are freely available for anyone to look at. One has stupidly high mitigation. One doesn't. I listed it all. I showed how the cloth argument is bogus. If you want to argue that the burst/dmg is similar? Go right ahead. You only make my point all the more vaild. I also have collaborating evidence from players who have rerolled to infiltration/deception BECAUSE of this imbalance, in this THREAD. This was BEFORE 2.0 hit. I haven't twisted jack. I am not the one linking a parse of dmg done, with no frame of reference and nothing to compare it to, when that parse is subject to a) uptime on the target, b) dmg debuffs (3 heal sorcs? Might want to look at the corruption tree for dmg debuffs), c) taunts, and d) armor buffs. That parse is good for 2 things. Jack and @!$@ and jack just left town.

You posted a parse of pvp which has NOTHING to do with mitigation, or this entire freakin discussion. What part of this don't you understand? Parse this. Take a scoundrel coming out of stealth and your sin coming out of stealth (blackout). Have a carnage marauder/mm sniper/merc unload on them and see which one gets instagibbed. Also have a rage jug/marauder hit them with smash. Get back to me, when you link a parse that has ANYTHING to do with mitigation, and going immune to CC, while having as good or better burst, as big a opener, and not being tied to that opener. A DPS parse in this discussion, would be like me debating that one tank has way more mitigation then another, and me linking a dps parse and saying, proved you wrong! Add to all this? It is not an accurate parse due to all the variables involved. Did you parse an op in the same warzone? Who took more damage? Were you under the effects of a taunt? Were there any soft targets like a dps scoundrel to hit? How many of those hits were under taunts? How many were after sapped strength effects by the sorcs? Increased armor on the sorc? Were you hitting dps sorcs? When you have any empirical evidence having to do with stupid mitgation given to one class that already counters everyone 1 v 1, and not given to another? Let me know all about it. Until then? Keep posting nonsense. Let me sup up this entire stupid thread. 1. You all admit sin/shadow has no counter. It doesn't. 2. You all admit you hit every bit as hard a op/scoundrel. We do. 3. The ones that are not keyboard turners all admit that shadow/sin completely counters the other stealth class making them useless in the ninja/defense game. Some even admit they re rolled for this purpose 4. You can't refute any of the points I made on mitigation, because they are all real talents, and a huge issue, as is going immune to CC while gunning someone down on a bursty class. To prove me wrong? You link a dps parse with the softest target being a healing sage with a armor buff, with taunts, damage debuffs galore and uptime that is not 100 percent. /slowclap

Dance puppets dance, and keep bumping. I have all the evidence in the world and so does Bioware/EA. The mitigation problem is real. Crappy players who can now top dps who weren't before. They have metrics. They see massive rerolls, and people stacking sins. People have admitted in this thread they dropped their scoundrel/op for a sin/shadow, because the op/scoundrel was POINTLESS. Scoundrels/ops got nerfed to the ground despite being an unpopular class, and based on regular warzones, and this was before adrenals were even addressed. This is what happens when ANY stealth class is OP. The only thing that prevented a nerf before is you all played tanks. LOL at you delusional kids who play one class, and think you know jack about balance. The funny thing? You don't even play it well enough to see it is broken. LOL at the kid who said he can't get an opener on a sin. LOL more at the kid who said he loses 1 v 1 's to op/scoundrels. LOL more at people who thought this spec was broken BEFORE 2.0, even though the only reason people avoided playing ALL stealth (and sins/shadows were still way better), is because of hybrid sin in dps gear. LOL the most at people using the crit nerf (which affected most classes) to justify these shenanigans. Give this forum 2 weeks and it is going to EXPLODE, when people get to 55 and see how stupid this class is atm. Good luck with all the propaganda, trying to get the class to stay like this! Better get those excuses and BS arguments ready (even though I have busted them all in this thread). I will say...I told you so.

You were original fatman huh? Remember Liu-kang? That is me kid. Do the same test with backblast. Then tell me when both don't crit and suck? Which class is better. No mitigation or stupidly high mitigation for a stealth class... Then again you think a class with no mitigation, no 30 percent aoe mitigation, no 25 percent for 12 seconds after coming out of stealth mitigation = good in a group fight... How many times can I say the problem has to do with a stunlock while immune to CC, and high mitigation vs none? 100 times? Would that do it? I am well on my way there. Anyways thanks again for bumping this thread to show a gross imbalance in the game! You people keep on saying that non crits don't hit hard, when a whole 3 specs have auto crits on ONE spell and two of those are on the same class lol. Derp crit nerf only affected me, derp.

?? My shadow is getting geared first. The scoundrel last (if I bother to gear him at all). The 1 v 1 and ALL 1 v 1's are in MY FAVOR. Maras have a hard counter (sniper). Sins/shadow have none. Not a lot of people played snipers/slingers which made the problem seem even bigger. It doesn't change the fact that maras had a designed counter though. Their only hard counter pre 2.0 as deception/infiltration was...a hybrid specced sin/shadow (LOL). So one OP spec was keeping the other OP spec down, which was then buffed to stupid levels? Makes perfect sense. If you were losing to a marauder/sent as a infiltration, deception build pre 2.0? You were an idiot. 55 percent mitigation to smash = LOL, and they usually missed the first one due to a cloak. Were you standing in ravage? We have a 15 second cooldown to stop that. We have a forcepush to stop that. We have a stun to stop that. The only spec marauder/sent that stood a chance was an annihilation build (noone plays them), and it was still a loss if both people were = skill. This isn't just about 1 v 1. This is two stealth classes with the same burst, except one has exceptional mitigation and one does not. One can go immune to CC, one can't. One beats every class in the game with ease, and one doesn't. With a hybrid sin? It wasn't that much of an issue because it took so LONG to kill the other player. With deception/infiltration? This isn't an issue. Also why the hell would I care what you think? You are some garbage player, who gets outdsped by freakin operatives. I have posted screenshots of me doubling the damage of smashers on my scoundrel. I can outdps you by a ton on him. I can outdps you by far more on my shadow, while dying a whole lot less and fighting outnumbered/carrying a team by ninjaing nodes 1 on 2. People led dps on freakin arsenal before 2.0. Did it make the class good? No it means you and everyone in that warzone suck/ed. Who are these good operatives? They usually get outdpsed by mine by 200-300k, unless I am rolling around (doing no damage)? What some operative who queues with a premade with voicecom and heals/tanks against none? Those are freakin impressive screenshots! I have to laugh at the idea that infiltration/deception was bad pre 2.0. No it wasn't bad. Keyboard turning, slow playing morons, were just more successful as a tank build spamming frontal attacks, putting a big aoe on the ground and casting a channeled that couldn't be interrupted. Pre 2.0 my shadow could often lead dps against good players. My scoundrel on the other hand, excelled at smoking recruit geared morons. I love how you all think it is ok that one stealth class completely stomps the other stealth class, and that it is also ok for them to have the mitgation to stand up there with warrior classes in a large fight. I guess we as the forum are supposed to tell all scoundrel/op's who are under the impression that low level dmg is going to be present at 55, and that the worst mitigation in the game is going to be good for extended fights, that they should have rolled shadow/sin, and tell them reroll noob. l2p. You can't debate anything. You actually think it is ok for one class to counter EVERYTHING. You actually think that both stealth classes should have equal burst, but only one should have insane mitigation and CC immunity. I would love to hear a developer tell me "Both classes should hit hard on openers, but only one should have mitigation like a cloak of pain marauder, AND not be tied to their opener, AND be able to do silly burst outside of stealth, AND not be automessed on an opener vs a sage/sorc, and not be subject to the first ballistic charge on a sniper, because the opener isn't the BIG DAMAGE ability, AND proc power relics help shadow/sin more then op/scoundrel, because the maul comes after the opener , and be immune to CC on their defensive cooldown". People would laugh at them. The whole situation is a joke, and people defending it are a bigger joke. The funny thing? The people in this thread are probably the same morons taunting the PT's/vanguards for their nerf. Enjoy god mode while you have it, because everytime you bump it? The pvp design team looks like imbeciles, and they will be forced to remedy the situation with all the rerolls, and people pulling their sin/shadow out of retirement.