The reason Sorcerer/Sage CC is OP in PvP

[Vales]

You mean an entire 1/12th of your force? Compare that to a scoundrels 1/4th of his energy for a single heal that does about 2k and you'll realize how stupid that sounds.

 

 

Doing the math, if you've got a 15kish health pool you'll be using half your force healing from 1 to full, I've never had a force problem in pvp except in stupidly long fights where I didn't get a chance to regen inbetween, but even then you can just life tap.

 

Yeah since noble sacrifice on a non healer is SO effective! 8% force back while sacrificing 12% of your health AND 25% less regeneration per used until you kill your force regeneration and yourself.

 

Yes I do not run out of force either when the bads let me free cast 24/7. Oh wait suddenly a decent player jumps me forcing me to rely on costly inefficient instant casts and never let me channel TK Throw fully so I cannot even get any force back.

Whoops I am out of force after 10-15 seconds spamming 50+ force abilities with the only option to either run far away if I can or kill myself trying to get my force pool back to a fighting level.

 

On the other hand Scoundrels have NO means to improve their energy regeneration and of course they do not have an abiltiy which instantly refills at least 50% of their energy bar nor do they have resource free heals nor can they vanish midfight. Wait a moment...

 

Also do not mention that your strong heal is significantly faster than our strong heal but pst!

 

Edit: Also do not mention that you regenerate your full pool several times faster than we do and while we are at silly comparisons it takes a Scoundrel 3 seconds to regenerate a strong heal while it takes a Sorc 7-8 seconds to regenerate a strong heal.

 

Just to put in some perspective that your pov might be a "bit" flawed.

Edited February 15, 2012 by Vales

[Karandor]

When it comes to healers

 

Mercs are hardest to kill

 

then operatives

 

then sorcs

 

 

When left to free-cast sorc healers are the best.

[Vales]

When it comes to healers

 

Mercs are hardest to kill

 

then operatives

 

then sorcs

 

 

When left to free-cast sorc healers are the best.

 

So and which GOOD teams/players let a Sorc/Sage free cast a lot? Rethorical question since the answer is clear none does.

Only bad players with no situational awareness do.

Edited February 15, 2012 by Vales

[enoax]

 

The way to solve "hybrid issue": buff end talents considerbaly. Problem solved.

 

QFE

 

So Sage/ Sorc dps end lines suck forcing them to go 'hybrid' to compete reasonably. Now you want to nerf our regular talents. Op has no clue.

 

Aoe's dont win warfronts... they just pad the numbers on the scoreboard.

 

For every warfront I've gotten top number of kills on there is another warfront where i top number of deaths. If i'm focused on I go down easier than anyother class imo.

Edited February 15, 2012 by enoax

[Karandor]

So and which GOOD teams/players let a Sorc/Sage free cast a lot? Rethorical question since the answer is clear none does.

Only bad players with no situational awareness do.

 

Exactly, I have no idea why people think sages and sorc are OP. The only reason can be is that they are terrible players.

[Aidank]

Yeah since noble sacrifice on a non healer is SO effective! 8% force back while sacrificing 12% of your health AND 25% less regeneration per used until you kill your force regeneration and yourself.

 

Yes I do not run out of force either when the bads let me free cast 24/7. Oh wait suddenly a decent player jumps me forcing me to rely on costly inefficient instant casts and never let me channel TK Throw fully so I cannot even get any force back.

Whoops I am out of force after 10-15 seconds spamming 50+ force abilities with the only option to either run far away if I can or kill myself trying to get my force pool back to a fighting level.

 

On the other hand Scoundrels have NO means to improve their energy regeneration and of course they do not have an abiltiy which instantly refills at least 50% of their energy bar nor do they have resource free heals nor can they vanish midfight. Wait a moment...

 

Also do not mention that your strong heal is significantly faster than our strong heal but pst!

For one, I play a scoundrel and a sorcerer, if you think the healing is anywhere near comparable you've got no idea what you're talking about. A scoundrel's strong heal heals for WAY less and since we're talking about dps specs it's still going to be a 2.5 second cast.

 

Consumption is only 25% less regen for 10 seconds, and I have no idea what you're spamming to run out of force in 10 seconds (each attack would need to cost over 100 force, though, and seeing as shock, our biggest force dump is 45 I'm guessing you're just making crap up at this point)

 

And I don't see what being able to drop combat has to do with this, we're comparing their healing, dps scoundrels have far worse HPS, are far less resource efficient, and the max they can throw off is 6 heals in a row, for 2k health each, and that's popping a 2 minute long cooldown. Sorcerers on the other hand can spam 10-12 heals in a row that go for some 3k health.

 

Off healing between the specs just isn't comparable, dps sorcerer heals are amazing when you consider that they aren't even a healing spec.

 

 

edit: actually I'm wrong, if you use force storm every single GCD you can run out of force in 10.5 seconds. Congratulations though, you're the worst sorcerer ever.

Edited February 15, 2012 by Aidank

[zYNNN]

IF BW fixed the resolve system so that it isn't totally **** useless and included snares into the immunity when the resolve bar is full there wouldn't be a problem.

 

But for some reason they don't seem to see it as an issue and obv nerfing Sin hybrid speccs was higher on the priority list of theirs.

 

And perhaps consider fixing the 31 points talents in both the Lightning Tree and Madness so the actually scaled properly, and weren't useless.

[Vales]

1.) DPS Specc Sorc Deliverance is 3 second cast. Which makes your Underworld Medicine still easier to get off. HPS is about the same.

 

2.) Albeit my Sawbones Scoundrel alt is only 21 yet I have no problems to heal in PvE or PvP.

 

3.)

Benevolence costs 50 Force.

Deliverance costs 55.

TK Wave 50.

Project 45.

Force in Balance 50.

Force Armor costs 65 Force.

 

You really play Sage? Judging by your claim that my abilities cost at most 45 I seriously doubt that by now seeing how you are again so wrong it is not funny anymore.

Edited February 15, 2012 by Vales

[Aidank]

So and which GOOD teams/players let a Sorc/Sage free cast a lot? Rethorical question since the answer is clear none does.

Only bad players with no situational awareness do.

 

Since when do sorcerers need to freecast? There's no penalty to being interrupted other than a 4 second lockout. If you don't have 3 instants up to use in that period it's time to reroll mercenary because the second easiest class in the game is too hard for you.

[Aidank]

1.) DPS Specc Sorc Deliverance is 3 second cast. Which makes your Underworld Medicine still easier to get off.

 

2.) Albeit my Sawbones Scoundrel is only 21 yet I have no problems to heal in PvE or PvP.

 

I would gladly trade 1/2 of a second off the cast time for the extra 50% healing and 66% less relative resource cost.

[GrandMike]

For one, I play a scoundrel and a sorcerer, if you think the healing is anywhere near comparable you've got no idea what you're talking about. A scoundrel's strong heal heals for WAY less and since we're talking about dps specs it's still going to be a 2.5 second cast.

 

Consumption is only 25% less regen for 10 seconds, and I have no idea what you're spamming to run out of force in 10 seconds (each attack would need to cost over 100 force, though, and seeing as shock, our biggest force dump is 45 I'm guessing you're just making crap up at this point)

 

And I don't see what being able to drop combat has to do with this, we're comparing their healing, dps scoundrels have far worse HPS, are far less resource efficient, and the max they can throw off is 6 heals in a row, for 2k health each, and that's popping a 2 minute long cooldown. Sorcerers on the other hand can spam 10-12 heals in a row that go for some 3k health.

 

Off healing between the specs just isn't comparable, dps sorcerer heals are amazing when you consider that they aren't even a healing spec.

 

 

edit: actually I'm wrong, if you use force storm every single GCD you can run out of force in 10.5 seconds. Congratulations though, you're the worst sorcerer ever.

 

Wrong in all points.

 

Scoundrels have ability to pop heals indefinately without ANY resource management. L2P.

 

Scoundrels basic heal=sage basic heal, dont know what you rant about.

[Aidank]

Wrong in all points.

 

Scoundrels have ability to pop heals indefinately without ANY resource management. L2P.

 

Scoundrels basic heal=sage basic heal, dont know what you rant about.

 

https://whyweprotest.net/asset-proxy/abbbb1154889281100560fecea2f79d78cc4c211/687474703a2f2f63646e2e7374796c65666f72756d2e6e65742f342f34612f34616439306230385f4e6f742d737572652d69662d736572696f7573322e6a706567/http://cdn.styleforum.net/4/4a/4ad90b08_Not-sure-if-serious2.jpeg

Edited February 15, 2012 by Aidank

[GrandMike]

Umm... No? Are you trolling or do you actually believe that crap you just made up?

 

See how clueless you are?

Edited February 15, 2012 by GrandMike

[Aidank]

See how clueless you are?

 

25 energy cost... max 100 energy pool.

 

See how bad at math you are?

[GrandMike]

25 energy cost... max 100 energy pool.

 

See how bad at math you are?

 

Dont even need a comment. See how bad at game you are?

[Vales]

Since when do sorcerers need to freecast? There's no penalty to being interrupted other than a 4 second lockout. If you don't have 3 instants up to use in that period it's time to reroll mercenary because the second easiest class in the game is too hard for you.

 

Freecast to have "unlimited" force you dolt. Of course we cast other spells in that time of a lockout but newsflash if we cannot cast TK Throw most of the time we cannot maintain a high force pool for long.

 

I would gladly trade 1/2 of a second off the cast time for the extra 50% healing and 66% less relative resource cost.

 

Making up numbers. Good job boy. /pat head.

Also the resource cost is not 66% less unless of course you want to make us believe that Force = Energy.

Too bad it doesn't work that way.

Edited February 15, 2012 by Vales

[Vales]

25 energy cost... max 100 energy pool.

 

See how bad at math you are?

 

100 divided by 8 = 12 seconds to get full energy pool back.

600 divided by 8 = 75 seconds to get full force pool back.

See slight difference here?

 

Edit: Also I want my free resource cost heal which gives me back force when it crits!

 

Damn why are classes different. That is really mean.

Edited February 15, 2012 by Vales

[Aidank]

Freecast to have "unlimited" force you dolt. Of course we cast other spells in that time of a lockout but newsflash if we cannot cast TK Throw most of the time we cannot maintain a high force pool for long.

 

 

 

Making up numbers. Good job boy. /pat head.

Also the resource cost is not 66% less unless of course you want to make us believe that Force = Energy.

Too bad it doesn't work that way.

 

For one, If you're having force problems at all, again, it looks like it's time to reroll. I've got no idea what you're spamming to run out of force so fast, but it sounds like you're using force storm every gcd if you're running out of force in 10 seconds like you claim. Sorcerers require next to no resource management so you've got to be doing something really awful to screw that up.

 

 

Two, Okay, I'll trade it for three times the relative resource pool. You can get three times as many heals off without running out, if you don't think that's a massive advantage you're completely blind.

[Aidank]

100 divided by 8 = 12 seconds to get full energy pool back.

600 divided by 8 = 75 seconds to get full force pool back.

See slight difference here?

 

Edit: Also I want my free resource cost heal which gives me back force when it crits!

 

Damn why are classes different. That is really mean.

 

Explain to me how on earth a scoundrel regens 8 energy per second...?

 

 

And the free resource heal crits for ~ 100. Not 1000, 100.

[FalmeseReb]

100 divided by 8 = 12 seconds to get full energy pool back.

600 divided by 8 = 75 seconds to get full force pool back.

See slight difference here?

 

Edit: Also I want my free resource cost heal which gives me back force when it crits!

 

Damn why are classes different. That is really mean.

 

Smuggler has a variable energy regen... if you drain your energy pool you have 2/s regen until you get to 30, then 3/s until you get to 50 then its 4/s till you get to 65 or so then its 5/s....

[PloGreen]

i think it also be a good idea to reduce the healing ppl can do while specced into dps trees nothing more annoying when almost killing a mage he bubble sprint away and by the time you reach him (GS) he healed himself back to full hp

 

Dps Sorc healing themselves to full health? If you can't interrupt a dps Sorc or sage from healing back to full then you are just terrible, no offense. Their heals suck and are very slow to cast.

[Vales]

For one, If you're having force problems at all, again, it looks like it's time to reroll. I've got no idea what you're spamming to run out of force so fast, but it sounds like you're using force storm every gcd if you're running out of force in 10 seconds like you claim. Sorcerers require next to no resource management so you've got to be doing something really awful to screw that up.

 

 

Two, Okay, I'll trade it for three times the relative resource pool. You can get three times as many heals off without running out, if you don't think that's a massive advantage you're completely blind.

 

I do not have to reroll I know by now that you have 0 clue. I already proved you wrong that our spells cost "only" 45 force max when already our most important defence tool costs 65 force which goes by the name Force Armor in case you do not know what I am talking about.

 

Claiming you have no force problems is simply a lie. I have enough experience to know that because when you get constantly interupted on TK Throw so you cannot maintain a high pool and then being forced to spam your 50+ force cost abilities makes you running out of force fast. Anyone claiming otherwise has 0 clue.

 

You either do not play this class or you lie. Proven by numbers.

 

Smuggler has a variable energy regen... if you drain your energy pool you have 2/s regen until you get to 30, then 3/s until you get to 50 then its 4/s till you get to 65 or so then its 5/s....

 

1.) True but the slowed regenration starts at 40%. At least on my Scoundrel it starts to decrease at 40 Energy when I hover over the energy bar to read my regeneration rates. Also the arrows are an indicator for that and I am at full 3 arrows until 40 energy. So either you got it wrong or the tooltip on the energy bar.

 

2.) You have 2 base abilities which helps you with the regeneration which are resource free. One ups your regeneration by flat 3 energy per second and the other gives at least 50 energy back, 76 with talents.

 

3.) You have resource free heals. When specced into it crits from Diagnostic Scan regenerate energy and you can specc for 24% extra critical strike chance on Med Scan. This is for healers only of course.

Edited February 15, 2012 by Vales

[GrandMike]

Dps Sorc healing themselves to full health? If you can't interrupt a dps Sorc or sage from healing back to full then you are just terrible, no offense. Their heals suck and are very slow to cast.

 

No no, you see, we here compare class without any skills and terribad players to good sorcs.

 

Thats the problem, terribad players cant kill good sorc so we need to nerf sorc so any class played by terriabd player can kill a sorc

[Aidank]

I do not have to reroll I know by now that you have 0 clue. I already proved you wrong that our spells cost "only" 45 force max when already our most important defence tool costs 65 force which goes by the name Force Armor in case you do not know what I am talking about.

 

Claiming you have no force problems is simply a lie. I have enough experience to know that because when you get constantly interupted on TK Throw so you cannot maintain a high pool and then being forced to spam your 50+ force cost abilities makes you running out of force fast. Anyone claiming otherwise has 0 clue.

 

You either do not play this class or you lie. Proven by numbers.

 

To OOF in 10 seconds, which you claimed you were doing, you need to waste 100 energy every global cooldown. The ONLY way to do that is to use thunderstorm on every global cooldown.

 

 

As far as damaging abilities go, which is what you were complaining about, Shock is our biggest force dump (You shouldn't REALLY be using it anyways, the damage is awful) and costs 45 focus. Force armor isn't nearly as big a force dump as shock because assuming you use it on yourself its cooldown is 3x as long.

 

As for other instants we've got affliction, 35 force, Creeping terror, 20 force, Death field, 50 force, Overload, 20 force, Cl & LS in hybrid, 50 and 30 force respectively, electro/ww 20 force each, and crushing darkness at 40 force.

 

 

None of those cost anywhere near the amount of force you'd need to run out in any reasonable amount of time. Seeing as you regen some 12 force per gcd so that gives these an average of around minus 20 force per GCD

 

 

That means you would need to be spamming instants for 30 seconds straight without getting a single force lightning off, or killing your target. In which case you should really consider not pvping anymore.

 

 

Not to mention, even that scenario is impossible as those ALL have cooldowns making it impossible to spam them for 30 seconds straight unless you're reapplying dots at 50% completion.

 

If you're having any force problems it's a l2p issue.

Edited February 15, 2012 by Aidank

[genericcc]

Wrong in all points.

 

Scoundrels have ability to pop heals indefinately without ANY resource management. L2P.

 

Scoundrels basic heal=sage basic heal, dont know what you rant about.

The sorcs in this thread are really living up to the class stereotype gz