Living, breathing world....

[Goretzu]

They have been slowly adding more npcs that run around/walk and droids that roll around the areas slowly. Though, From a server aspect not having npcs move around too much can save a ton of bandwidth and free up a lot of cpu both server and client side.

 

Could they not add some stuff client side, like undergrowth, if that is a major issue? Perhaps you could have visual only NPCs like that?

[Droidlife]

Meh, I've seen way worse...Rift anyone?

 

But it could be better.

 

Yeah, thats an astute observation...

Rifts team beats the BW outsourced mess to a bloody pulp without breaking a sweat.

Edited February 12, 2012 by Droidlife

[Vassik]

I KNOW RIGHT IT'S SO AWESOME I LOVE WATCHING THE NPCs!

 

Like on Tython when I first started playing it blew me away how awesome the NPCs are!

 

I mean, I know it's 2012, but I wasn't expecting even THIS level of polish!

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3Rrk6lgi24

 

 

/joke

 

That's a wonderful video.

[daemian]

So I have always felt, since beta anyway, that the swtor world felt dead. Not just in the number of players but the environments. Lifeless cities. No ambient sound. Well played the Tera beta the last 24 hours straight and it confirms these feelings even more.

 

The cities feel so alive. Players are everywhere. Sounds of city life, crafting, players dueling in the dueling ring. I actually felt like part of an MMO WORLD. The list goes on and on. Yes it has flaws too (Korean) just makes me hope and some point Swtor will feel more alive.

 

I know what you mean. This game is a ton of fun, but it might take some time for it to feel more lived-in. I do wonder if it will ever have that same type of real live peristent world feeling that some other MMOs have.

[Turkman]

I too think that something is missing regarding the ambience in this game.

 

Maybe it's their decision to make two exact copies of space stations the main hubs of the game? Coruscant and DK would have been way better hubs in my opinion.

 

Maybe it's also the lack of vivid flora and fauna on the planets. Many of the background npcs are not even targetable btw. It's like they are painted to the wall. They don't move enough too. And they should have added way more voice to these background npcs.

 

Every outpost is manned by only a couple of soldiers. The worlds don't feel like they are truly at war. They need way more manpower, wounded soldiers, skirmishes taking place etc. to make this world more lively. You just run around in mediocre suroundings, doing (for the most part) mediocre quests that have absolutely no variation to kill/inspect quests. And a lot of the stories are also extremely lacking.

 

Some of the planets look really good designwise, but all seem to lack some soul. especially those that should be more populous. I don't mind not seeing a soul on tatooine or hoth, but on other planets that's different.

[Inixus]

So I have always felt, since beta anyway, that the swtor world felt dead. Not just in the number of players but the environments. Lifeless cities. No ambient sound. Well played the Tera beta the last 24 hours straight and it confirms these feelings even more.

 

The cities feel so alive. Players are everywhere. Sounds of city life, crafting, players dueling in the dueling ring. I actually felt like part of an MMO WORLD. The list goes on and on. Yes it has flaws too (Korean) just makes me hope and some point Swtor will feel more alive.

 

During the Swtor beta weekends it was the same.

 

But i agree with you.

[Arnokar]

Yeah, thats an astute observation...

Rifts team beats the BW outsourced mess to a bloody pulp without breaking a sweat.

 

 

So what are you trying to say...cause I don't have a clue. I know what astute means I just don't know what YOU mean....

[RabidPopcorn]

I agree. Nothing in SWTOR even comes close to Elwynn forest (even after discounting the sentimental value of the place). SWTOR is a little lifeless, and lacks vibrant colours. (don't even need to mention the map) Not only does SWTOR lack ambient sounds, the background music it has doesn't feel as appropriate as compared to how WoW did it. SWTOR's environment doesn't compel you to explore because it's not very engaging (what a waste because I think it's supposed to be way bigger than WoW).

 

for teh fanboys: if you ask me why I'm playing SWTOR it's really because i wanted to try something new; besides, there's nothing wrong with pointing out what we feel could be improved.

 

EDIT:[ tbh, i don't know how WoW did it, neither do i know how SWTOR can fix it, but it's important that this issue gets looked at or else people just won't feel like logging on - the game is only a few months old and people are getting tired of logging on? I mean come on this has got to be a sign of something.

 

I agree with what someone said earlier: SWTOR doesn't trigger emotion, there's like no attachment and you don't remember much about it (everyone will remember their first Deadmines, but Esseles? Elwynn Forest v Ord Mantell?) I'll bet that SWTOR fanboys who played WoW feel this deep down inside. ]

Edited February 12, 2012 by RabidPopcorn

[wifeaggro]

So what are you trying to say...cause I don't have a clue. I know what astute means I just don't know what YOU mean....

 

clever and perceptive: shrewd and discerning, especially where personal benefit is to be derived.

I believe what he is saying is your clever . And rifts team lead by Scott hartsmen was hand picked paid well and zero corperate restrictions on their game. Rifts lvling process was very monotonous it was no where near as fun as TOR. But its end game was far better its itemization much more thought out. Class system for the win its hands down the most original class system in a MMO.

 

Im no rift fanboi but i will say this for aDX 9 game with an old engine they rewrote the code contained in it and made it a beast its a smooth beautiful game world. this is what he is talking about Rifts team , compared to EAowares' team. Personally had Bioware gotten private investors Hired big gun expierenced project leads, dodged the EA aquistion .TOR would have been better for it.

[Arnokar]

clever and perceptive: shrewd and discerning, especially where personal benefit is to be derived.

I believe what he is saying is your clever . And rifts team lead by Scott hartsmen was hand picked paid well and zero corperate restrictions on their game. Rifts lvling process was very monotonous it was no where near as fun as TOR. But its end game was far better its itemization much more thought out. Class system for the win its hands down the most original class system in a MMO.

 

Im no rift fanboi but i will say this for aDX 9 game with an old engine they rewrote the code contained in it and made it a beast its a smooth beautiful game world. this is what he is talking about Rifts team , compared to EAowares' team. Personally had Bioware gotten private investors Hired big gun expierenced project leads, dodged the EA aquistion .TOR would have been better for it.

 

Ok. Go read the OP. He/She feels like SWTOR's world is dead, non living. I've seen worse, way worse and Rifts world is dead, nothing going on, no towns, no people no nothing...that's all. Rift as a game on the other hand is pretty enjoyable. Mechanics are good and graphics are marginally better.

So we are not talking about the same thing here. See ya.

Edited February 12, 2012 by Arnokar

[chubbywan]

NDA been lifted then ?

 

Yes mea is lifted.....tera is amazing

[wifeaggro]

Ok. Read the op,he feels like SWTORS world is dead, non living, I've seen worse, way worse and rifts world is dead, nothing going on, no towns, no people no nothing...that's all. Rift as a game on the other hand is pretty enjoyable. Mechanics are good and graphics are marginally better.

So we are not talking about the same thing here. See ya.

 

I do agree having only 2 starting cities or 2 factions for that matter is a form of lazyness it hink or resource management perhaps. I do feel a game like the original EQ that had a starting place for each race added a sense of uniqueness to your early game expierence. Being a Starting neriak and meeting up with a friend from kelethin required travel and adventure. you decieded what area you wanted to play in ( granted the exp was very grindy, itemization on the other hand was very very unique in the fact a rare drop from a boss could last you 20 lvls. gear was far less of a grind.) Once your location was agreed upon you ventured there which usally was an advneture on its own.

 

Fast travel was a completely player driven thing and was actually part of the economy, i made tons of money being a taxi. Several things are missing from MMO's that devolpment teams claim census polls showed players did not like them. what we know as a community , is that if you poll 10,000 people outof a 500 k player pool that is hardly the reflection of the entire community. Just like 10,000 People hating TOR is not a reflection of the entire population. MMO's are getting worse and worse the harder they rely on easy theme park designis and a end game gear grind as the back bone of the content. More sand box elements will be needed now as players are more expierenced and burnt out on the theme park design. A hybrid design is what will be needed for success in the future in my opinion definatey. more endepth game mechanics and a much richer crafting system or at the very least items from crafting that are use full at end game.

[chubbywan]

Yes mea is lifted.....tera is amazing

 

Nda is what I meant

[Zhit]

10,000 people outof a 500 k player pool

 

Actually--polling 10,000 random players out of 500,000 is an extremely good indication of what players are thinking. Polling 10,000 players out of 500,000 should produce results with a + or - 1% error... But don't let math stand in your way!

 

(You only need to poll 1,000 random players for a + or - 3% sampling error on a population of 500,000.)

Edited February 12, 2012 by Zhit

[marshalleck]

Nda is what I meant

 

Tera doesn't have an NDA. They fully advocate publicly speaking about your experience with game, taking pictures, posting videos, etc. I know because I read the beta test invite boilerplate email and I've been playing it this weekend.

Edited February 12, 2012 by marshalleck

[JumperPenn]

Agreed, the game world is dead and lifeless there is really no reason to do anything but the things you are told to do via your missions. NPC's are zombie statues, the environment is a matte painting often made just to have you waste time getting through it.

 

There should have been more time invested in making the environment more alive by letting you interact with more things. Give the npc's stories, gossip, to share have some of them have missions if you did that or this, you know that whole "your decisions have consequences " we were fed.

 

I like to explore but SWTOR is killing that for me, why bother when I see something interesting looking 9/10 there will be nothing there to do/look at or find I might as well stay on the stupid rails and save myself the time.

[wifeaggro]

Actually--polling 10,000 random players out of 500,000 is an extremely good indication of what players are thinking. Polling 10,000 players out of 500,000 should produce results with a + or - 1% error... But don't let math stand in your way!

 

Then its a horrible sign for TOR a solid 300 k purchases tasted the game and spit it out before getting of the starter planet. correct im no math genius but i think we are gonna have some serious retention problems past 90 days.

Edited February 12, 2012 by wifeaggro

[chubbywan]

Tera doesn't have an NDA. They fully advocate publicly speaking about your experience with game, taking pictures, posting videos, etc. I know because I read the beta test invite boilerplate email and I've been playing it this weekend.

 

How u liking it

[marshalleck]

How u liking it

 

My reaction has been quite positive. Combat is definitely more twitch and action focused than vanilla MMO combat circa 1998 that we've all been playing for the last how many years. And much moreso than Conan. For me that's a big plus. I've seen other people whine that it feels consoley. I'm fine with that, because it feels fun to me. I also like Dark Souls and Demon Souls, so no complaints.

 

That said, some of the mechanics for some classes could, in my opinion, be more responsive. The lancer for example, I sometimes find myself fighting to aim the attacks in the right direction. Their main attack style is a three-hit forward thrust, and when trying to combo the characters sometimes want to keep going in a line, rather than where you are actually aiming. And it can take a second to get them to turn around. Which in Tera's combat, can be long enough to really get hammered by an opponent.

 

That said, by no means should this be taken as a general statement "Tera has clunky, unresponsive controls." A broad generalization like that would not be accurate. It's a concern specifically with one attack from one class.

Edited February 12, 2012 by marshalleck

[Goretzu]

Ok. Go read the OP. He/She feels like SWTOR's world is dead, non living. I've seen worse, way worse and Rifts world is dead, nothing going on, no towns, no people no nothing...that's all. Rift as a game on the other hand is pretty enjoyable. Mechanics are good and graphics are marginally better.

So we are not talking about the same thing here. See ya.

 

Rift's main cities weren't so great (in fact the were very bad), but their world (outside the main cities) was quite decently done.

 

Although definitely some other MMORPGs have done it much better.

[BCBull]

So I have always felt, since beta anyway, that the swtor world felt dead. Not just in the number of players but the environments. Lifeless cities. No ambient sound. Well played the Tera beta the last 24 hours straight and it confirms these feelings even more.

 

The cities feel so alive. Players are everywhere. Sounds of city life, crafting, players dueling in the dueling ring. I actually felt like part of an MMO WORLD. The list goes on and on. Yes it has flaws too (Korean) just makes me hope and some point Swtor will feel more alive.

 

The lasr game I played was RIFT. Trion got the living world part right.

[marshalleck]

The lasr game I played was RIFT. Trion got the living world part right.

 

You haven't seen a living world until you've played Ryzom.

[Vodalus]

I KNOW RIGHT IT'S SO AWESOME I LOVE WATCHING THE NPCs!

 

Like on Tython when I first started playing it blew me away how awesome the NPCs are!

 

I mean, I know it's 2012, but I wasn't expecting even THIS level of polish!

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3Rrk6lgi24

 

 

/joke

 

Thank you for posting this link. If anyone watches this actual game footage and still claims that the game world is not lifeless, they are lying.

 

Maybe BW thought that once the game had players in it there would be enough life interwoven with their forever-static scenes. Unfortunately, they split, compartmentalized, and instanced everything to such small populations that there are usually more NPC-statues than actual players in any area by orders of magnitude. Even in areas with sparce NPC populations. . . like the cavernous wastes of time and pixels that are the starports- especially the Croissant starport.

[chubbywan]

Thank you for posting this link. If anyone watches this actual game footage and still claims that the game world is not lifeless, they are lying.

 

Maybe BW thought that once the game had players in it there would be enough life interwoven with their forever-static scenes. Unfortunately, they split, compartmentalized, and instanced everything to such small populations that there are usually more NPC-statues than actual players in any area by orders of magnitude. Even in areas with sparce NPC populations. . . like the cavernous wastes of time and pixels that are the starports- especially the Croissant starport.

 

That video is so funny

[Waypoc]

Exactly. For the past few weeks I tried to work out why I didn't feel like logging in, why the game felt like a chore. I tried to convince myself, that I was overlooking the things that worked, and that the game had potential, which Bioware could and would realize within a relatively short time frame. I tried forcing myself to engage with every quest I took, paying attention to the details of the world and my character.

 

Then I realized, that if this game did what it was supposed to, I would never have to do this consciously. It's like watching a show with underdeveloped characters and a thin, confused plot line, that you *want* to like because it's based on some book series that you really care for. You're just deluding yourself.

 

To the other poster above, I agree. Bioware has given us such amazing experiences in other games. I cannot even begin to describe the feelings a game like Baldurs Gate:SOA managed to stir in me, even just thinking about it now brings back so many vivid memories. In two years time, I doubt I'll even remember the details of my main characters plot line, and this was the strongest emotional experience this game managed to provide in my opinion. Maybe they're over the hill as a company, I don't know. Dragon Age had great moments too, but felt so flat towards the end. I never even played the sequel, because it seemed weak based on reviews and what not. Mass Effect had AMAZING potential as a universe. By the time I was done with the Citadel I thought I was in for the ride of a lifetime. Then before I blinked, the game was over, apart from the ressource mining, worm killing and sterile bunker-like missions. Never picked up the sequel, though perhaps I should.

 

Heres hoping something else will come along that provides a more lasting experience. Keeping my fingers crossed for Diablo 3, and maybe some of the other MMO's set to release sometime soon.

 

I agree on BW's other games. ME was great and I enjoyed ME2 and I'm looking forward to ME3. Pick it up. You won't regret it.

 

Your point about SWTOR being based on a good book series made me think. You know whats it's like? Where The Wild Things Are. A great book for kids but an absolutely terrible movie for kids. I mean bad. lol

 

TOR is the same way. Star Wars = great. SWTOR = not so great.