Announcing The Old Republic Guild Summit

[Yogol]

this is a two-way conversation between the people making the game and the people playing the game

 

This is EXACTLY the attitude that worries me... people who have time to fly over for this convention are NOT your typical players. They are hardcore players, with hardcore points of views.

 

If you think for one second that this are ''THE people playing the game'' you are ignoring about alot of your players.

 

I understand that as a DEV it is nice to talk to hardcore players, not just because they are probably fanbois but also, well, because they are hardcore players like you But doing this to learn issues is very, very unbalanced.

[Yogol]

What is wrong with meeting some people, having a good time doing it all the while, chatting about the game?

 

Because these people are not representive for the gaming community AT ALL.

[Darth_Eclipses]

and no one has given it any much thought that they might want to actually meet some of their player base. All I hear is whining. What other company does that for it's players? Do I hear any? Nope. Ok then. Good lord. What is wrong with meeting some people, having a good time doing it all the while, chatting about the game? They will and have been listening to the forums. How about something different? Why do you have to criticize every move a company does? Is this what is wrong with the world now? They have to scrutinze a move by a good company, just cause you can? That's what I thought.

 

Uhh...ever hear of a game called EVE Online run by a company named CCP?

 

In EVE there is a democratically elected council of gamers that look out for the membership's interests. Furthermore, CCP flies all of those members out (whereever they are GLOBALLY) to have meetings - even emergency ones - with them regarding game issues.

 

This ain't something new.

[Cryptor]

This is EXACTLY the attitude that worries me... people who have time to fly over for this convention are NOT your typical players. They are hardcore players, with hardcore points of views.

 

Well, if that makes you feel any better I applied as a leader of GUNBAD and you can't get any more casual then us. I'am sure there is more casual guilds that will be represented on there whether I make it or not.

 

This sounds like a truly amazing event to attend for anyone who really cares about SWtOR, whether casual or not. With some luck I'll be able to attend it on behalf of GUNBAD and perhaps meet some of you there.

[swtorjkcbr]

You are very very brave Bioware. I suggest you send in your PR wizards first and see what happens

[Dragonexadon]

Well, if that makes you feel any better I applied as a leader of GUNBAD and you can't get any more casual then us. I'am sure there is more casual guilds that will be represented on there whether I make it or not.

 

This sounds like a truly amazing event to attend for anyone who really cares about SWtOR, whether casual or not. With some luck I'll be able to attend it on behalf of GUNBAD and perhaps meet some of you there.

 

Hope to see you there. We are also a large 'casual'. I say it in quotes because we play a lot...and try to be competitive...but we allow any one to join. No gear checks. So long as you are friendly you are welcome to join.

 

I hope the casual and fun guilds get to make it out there. Though from the responses I am seeing from bioware they will be bringing a mix of guilds. So that's good.

[Dragonexadon]

You are very very brave Bioware. I suggest you send in your PR wizards first and see what happens

 

You would be surprise how different people act on the forums and in person .

[Muadibby]

Here is some questions we put to Bioware about the event.

 

This is an event to put the community in front of devs. Maybe they should have done it earlier but better late than never. I have no problem with a developer getting feedback and input from the community.

 

http://fragworld.org/SWTOR-News-and-Blogs/stephen-reid-tells-tor-world-about-the-guild-council-event-in-march

 

 

 

 

 

Muadib

[NiteshadePromise]

Boy did I pick a topic for my first forum post...

 

I'm the guild leader for a small(we're talking a total of 4 or 5 people)Republic-side social/leveling/RP guild on Sanctum of the Exalted, while my boyfriend is the leader of an equally small one on Sith-side. We both have applied for our individual guilds.

We both accept the fact that we likely won't get picked, but on top of that we have a limited income and despite having family in Texas, they live in Houston not Austin, so traveling from Alabama whether by plane or car is quite pricey, we accept the fact that even if we DO, there is a high chance we would not be able to attend simply because we have a wedding to save for and...well...this economy sucks.

 

While everyone is still whining and moaning about bugs and content and how angry they are at BW(Seriously, do you guys rationally read your own posts? If it angers you so much, just quit. For our sake and your own...no one should be that stressed about a game, it's not healthy), what I'm really wondering is what is the criteria that picked these pre-invited guilds who go expenses-paid? Was it from certain servers? Was there a particular reason they were chosen?

 

 

I know this has been brought up by other posters in this thread, but I ask this because I seriously wonder if the priority of invites went to the larger guilds. Honestly, and maybe I'm the only one who thinks this, but I see the catering to the large guilds as the downfall of WoW and the inability to do ANYTHING in that game without having a large group.

I also ask this because anyone and their mother can start a guild with 5000 in-game credits and three other people, and if they spam invites of course their numbers will grow and their name will be seen more. Does that mean you're going to get a well-balanced, rational, and understanding person at your summit? Not always. You might end up with someone STILL asking the same questions and giving the same whiny complaints that you're trying to avoid with something of a serious summit.

 

What is the number of the smallest guild that was paid for attendance to this? Are there any pre-invited attendees who's guild numbers are ten or below?

I, personally, am a small-group player. I play most of the time with my boyfriend(yes, we paid for two games and two subs), and sometimes with friends or others we met online, but even those numbers don't surpass twenty other people.

If, in fact, the pre-invited guilds are larger, "louder" guilds, why should they get priority over a tiny guild? Just because we're small in number doesn't mean we don't talk about the game or share our experiences as well.

 

I've been playing video games since I was six and engulfed my life into studying Star Wars lore from age 13 until 20(and still do here and there!)...on top of that I'm a writer and reviewed video games for a short time(before my "boss" started treating it as a full-time job despite being pro-bono), as well as someone who understands the full process of creating video games from coding to texturizing to modelling, CG physics and dynamics, and rendering.

I'm not listing this to brag...I'm listing this because, yes, I KNOW I know my stuff, but I also understand how difficult releasing a game of this level, both market-wise, but also from a technical point. My viewpoint at a summit like this as a Star Wars fan, CG enthusiast, and a gamer is a rational one...something I think Bioware NEEDS. But since my guild is small, I have to depend on trying to save up in a MONTH to be able to afford to go.

 

This is an awesome idea...I love it and it pains me that if I get picked, not only does my spot take up one that someone who COULD go and wants to go just as badly could have had, but I would spend that whole weekend mulling over what could have been.

 

That is why I don't think this was handled well. Instead of picking first-hand certain guilds that you can pay their way to travel...why didn't you open up the application process for that number of guild-leaders to go on your budget and THEN open up another one for the slots for those who could pay their own way to go?

The application was limited as well...to ensure you're getting quality guild leaders of all types and kinds, why not ask more questions? This would seed out the whiners, the egomanics, and the crazies...because, come on, we know there are plenty of guild leaders who are one or more(or all) of these three.

While I understand the volume of guild leaders applying for the fully-paid visit would be large(and I know you guys are dealing with enough as is), I think it would have been more fair to the fan-base because at that point we would KNOW we were being equally represented at the summit.

 

I also don't know why a conference call with invited guild-leaders for this round would be that difficult. I know I would easily be able to attend that if invited, and would be a wonderful idea because on top of financing a trip to attend(or the inability to do so), I also have a neuromuscular disease and am physically limited. If I were to travel, I'd have to have my boyfriend with me as he's my caretaker when my mobility turns for the worse at any point. A Skype call or something would be ideal for someone in my situation.

 

I think a stream for others to watch would be great too, though I don't think having open chats for it would be wise...just like the forums, there are just SO many posts, it's hard for the people here to read and address every single one...

I see people on here complain an awful lot about how the issues that need to be addressed have been stated on here...but come on, if YOU had to read EVERY SINGLE POST in the forums and answer them...it wouldn't be so easy.

 

 

 

I also gotta close with saying give these guys a break...they're doing a really fantastic job with the game, especially with it being only a month old. When you were a month old, your eyes didn't even work fully, so give the complaints a rest. They're working on it, so be patient.

[Coiffio]

Your feedback is important to us...but uhh, you gotta front the bill to come see us.

 

Already payin you monthly, think I'll just wait for the hilights, That and I'm sure the hundreds of threads right here on the forums will give you far more insight than a few guildleaders could. Heck save everyone a trip and just call me on the phone and I could tell you everything wrong with TOR heh. Shame cause I don't think I ever anticipated a game as much as this one, and was subsequently so disappointed. Really hope that summit addresses some concrete issues in any event.

[Balmuck]

You guys are being too harsh. This game has been live 1 month and several days. You can't expect everything in the first month. Compared to STO, which is F2p by the way[their patching the game everyday!!], this game is doing well. Let's build a solid community. I would like to meet some of the other players and devs since I'm going to be with this game for probably 10 years at least. This event, in my opinion, is more about fun and relationships than damage control.

 

Stop the hating, if you weren't invited I'm sorry...if you were... take lots of photos for the rest of us

 

I'm sorry buddy but this game is about year and a half old to me and most of the problems prevalent today, have been in this game since the day I started. Most of the people who comment such as mine have literally played since December of 2010 and the ideas and posts you see right now... fixing Ilum, fixing lag and latency, have ALWAYS been the issues reported.

 

They've done nothing back then even with everyone telling them that they'll need to waste money and resources when the game goes live.

 

Look at the game right now? This one month old game has same exact basic problems that he same exact game had in December of 2010.

[halfhourofpower]

Could you guys maybe discuss the possibility of a live stream? That way the whole community can be apart of the summit?

 

edit: fantastic idea though, bringing in guild leaders is really great

Edited February 2, 2012 by halfhourofpower

[dargor-]

There are plenty of guild-centric features already planned and many are in development - for example guild banks, which we've talked about for Game Update 1.2.

 

We are certainly not holding back on development of these features until the summit happens, although we do hope that during the summit when we talk about future development, we'll get some validation from the community as a whole (and not just those attending) that we're on the right track. (And why are we waiting until the summit? Well, the development team isn't quite ready to talk about many of these features yet, but we've challenged them to ensure they are by the summit.)

 

Finally, I appreciate the feedback in this thread, but I'd ask you to remain constructive in your comments.

 

Armor. Coloring. please

[Fabiure]

How did you choose which guilds are going...

[DTuloJr]

You guys are being too harsh. This game has been live 1 month and several days. You can't expect everything in the first month. Compared to STO, which is F2p by the way[their patching the game everyday!!], this game is doing well. Let's build a solid community. I would like to meet some of the other players and devs since I'm going to be with this game for probably 10 years at least. This event, in my opinion, is more about fun and relationships than damage control.

 

Stop the hating, if you weren't invited I'm sorry...if you were... take lots of photos for the rest of us

 

1. They've spent somewhere between $80 and $300+ million dollars on development of this game across the lifetime of everything associated with every company working on it and advertising it.
   
2. They took SIX YEARS from concept to go-live.
   
3. The game was in some form of closed beta for OVER ONE YEAR, beginning circa October 2010.
   
4. Just about every single major design problem or major feature that is MISSING was identified pretty much in the first 4 months of closed beta. And repeatedly burned into the forums.
   
5. Not a single major design change was made, and not a single major feature was added, in the entire time that the game was in closed beta.
   

None of us are being too harsh. Harshness is deserved, because BioWare Austin ignored people that they should have been listening to, and instead, listened to those who gushed heaps of disengenuous praise that excused mediocrity and who attacked anyone who even remotely uttered a possible hint of criticism.

 

Perhaps they're finally willing to listen. Hopefully before it's ultimately too late. Perhaps they're not willing to listen. Perhaps it's merely a large publicity stunt. I'm willing to keep an open and hopeful mind. Because after all the money they've spent on the game... they're likely the last, best hope we will have for a very, very long time, for a proper Star Wars property MMO.

 

No one in their right mind will try to do it, ever again.

[westraz]

this is odd too say the lest, as a guild leader I don't think I can just drop $300/600 on a plan ticket... just saying

[DTuloJr]

Notice the coloring. You yourself, by your own comment, just stated Solo Players don't matter and you have to be in a guild to 'understand game mechanics and how it works.'

 

I said no such thing.

 

It's a numbers and logic issue. What are the odds that a single player will be able to influence others, over someone who leads a multitude of others in a permenantly organized manner?

 

Guild leadership positions are a natural location to look for such an individual.

 

Because they're too afraid to pick me.

[DTuloJr]

But there are reasons I have not joined a guild.

 

All very valid reasons.

 

But I am feeling a little cut-off right now. I have thoughts on the game. I see things that I would like to have explained.

 

Explained... by who? Fellow players? Rabid fanboys who will attack any remote hint of criticism? Developers?

 

But because I am just me and do not claim to represent anyone but myself, Bioware isn't interested.

 

I'm less interested in BioWare listening... as I am in BioWare AUSTIN listening... but your point is well taken. It's not that they're not interested... it's that they want the feedback and two-way communication to represent a larger sampling than those that they are ultimately going to meet with.

 

I would have rather seen them inviting specific players, guild member or not, and letting players, not just guild leaders, participate here, and then letting players submit their names for consideration, not just guild leaders or their appointed representatives.

 

Were they to limit it to individual players, I see no way it wouldn't become some form of a popularity contest, unless they limit the selection pool to some already smaller group of, say, their early beta testers. Or their favorite beta testers.

 

I would also like to know that videos of every 'session' will be available, along with transcripts.

I would like to see what is being discussed as it happens, or at least as it happened.

 

I can see this as being undesirable, from the simple standpoint that it could create too much feedback or uproar over... well... the heck with it. Sure, throw it into a dedicated forum so it can all be collected in a single location.

 

And those previews? Why are only guild leaders allowed to see them first-hand? If they are ready to be shown, then why not show them to everyone on the site here?

 

I think the question to ask is this; will those who attend be placed under any form of non-disclosure agreement? There are very real legal ramifications that may not have been considered by most of the community by being granted an actual preview of unreleased content in its development stage. Possible stock price and investment issues could arise from such information. It's remote, but not out of the question. That could be a major reason if they impose age restrictions...

[quaesitor]

1. Just about every single major design problem or major feature that is MISSING was identified pretty much in the first 4 months of closed beta. And repeatedly burned into the forums.
   
2. Not a single major design change was made, and not a single major feature was added, in the entire time that the game was in closed beta.
   

None of us are being too harsh.

 

Bolded for emphasis. When your pre-launch beta client and your post-launch retail client are nearly identical, that is NOT a good thing.

 

They should have been talking to guild leaders and developing features last year.

[DTuloJr]

I do however mind the fact that the trip is all expenses paid for the invited guilds and for all the others it's on their own dime. Uhh, so when the invited guilds go to eat lunch with the BW developers where are the other guild leaders going to go? The Subway down the street?

 

Uggh. If they are going to be reviewing guild applications and choosing a pool from there - their expenses should also be taken care of.

 

It's simply just tacky otherwise.

 

It's nice that they're going to use our hard earned subscription funds to entertain others, be told pretty much the same thing that they were told FOR OVER A YEAR by many of their beta testers, for yet more non-binding IOU's/promises of features that may or may not come to fruition (but that we're now paying them more money while waiting for those features to perhaps, one day, show up...).

 

Other than that: I do think BW does need to listen to guilds and get their respective focus on the game and its future. TBH GOOD guild leaders listen every night about the game's failings in vent/teamspeak/mumble and have a unique POV to offer BW on how to retain subscribers.

 

I just don't think they should be paying hundreds of dollars in addition to a subscription to present that POV to BW. Asking your subscriber base to do that a month from launch is...uggh. Tacky.

 

Ahhhh... the magic subject. Subscriber retention. I'll give ... wait... nahhh. Nope, I'm going to give BWA the benefit of this doubt. Is it a coincidence that this PR event is announced within days of when subscriptions were to be converted from included game time to actual paid/founder status? Sure makes ya wonder, doesn't it? Now, maybe it's a coincidence, after all... or perhaps someone finally woke up the investors that the retention rates weren't as expected, and discovered that they actually wanted to know why. Gee, that was an interesting PR song and dance that's been reported as having taken place yesterday with some careful phrasing...

Edited February 2, 2012 by DTuloJr

[LordExinferis]

The leaders that are attending have to pay for everything themselves. So basically, a lot of these people will need to spend, atleast, a couple hundred dollers to go down there and tell you what is wrong with your game? Edited February 2, 2012 by LordExinferis

[SoulstitchMMO]

The leaders that are attending has to pay for everything themselves. So basically, a lot of these people will need to spend, atleast, a couple hundred dollers to go down there and tell you what is wrong with your game?

 

Not all leaders, some leaders get all expenses paid. The ones pre-invited.

[DTuloJr]

Bolded for emphasis. When your pre-launch beta client and your post-launch retail client are nearly identical, that is NOT a good thing.

 

They should have been talking to guild leaders and developing features last year.

 

Guild leaders existed, but with such a small initial tester base, they really just needed to actually listen to their testers, not just the few ad hoc guild leaders. I gave BWA a list of 15 major items they could have concentrated on, and even clarified them for the typical fanboy critics that repeatedly attacked me for daring to critisize SWTOR (in full violation of forum posting rules, with no action taken against those people whatsoever... a trend that continues).

 

To be fair, there are some major difference in the clients, though I doubt I can reveal details I noted of them. Suffice to say, some game *content* changed, or was added... and a lot of content-specific bugs were actually fixed. None of that counts as a major change, though, in my book. What I'm talking about are serious design flaws or what I'll term as valid, but ill advised, business decisions that have resulted in avoidable issues that will plague the game for quite some time, perhaps forever. None of those have been addressed, and most of them should have been fixed, added, or changed, months prior to launch, in order for thorough testing to occur.

Edited February 2, 2012 by DTuloJr

[mitrikzoltan]

I don't mean to troll, but I fail to understand this.

 

If your goal is to inform the community about upcoming changes, tell them what will happen, what you are working on right now, than this is nonsense.

 

We, the community have several threads here, on these forums, BEGGING for a few answers to simple questions since the game launched, and we hit walls of ignorance.

 

If you want to tell us whats going on, TELL US! Your failure to communicate is epic. I could point to loads of threads where you decided to give an answer, and the answer did not address the questions of the topic. But in most cases you just choose to be silent.

 

So, I think it's safe to say that communication is not what this guild summit is about. What is it about then?

 

Marketing. The Pearl Harbor Movie effect. Why do you think the Pearl Harbor movie premiere was in Hawaii, on a battleship, and was an amazing event? To make journalists forget about how crappy that movie really is. "Buy" the love of the key people, to make them influence the masses. That is whats going on here.

 

I wish you would just take a few hours and give proper answers to the big questions/issues around the forums.

 

For Example:

 

Q: Why were all the cool armor sets removed before launch? Why is there no armor progression?

 

Bad Answer: There are plenty of sets for each class. (there are only recolors, and this is not an answer to the question)

 

Good Answer: We removed the sets because we want to add them with expansions. We removed the sets because they caused XY bugs, but we expect them to be back in the game in the next 1-2 months.

 

If you would not fail to communicate here on the forums, people would not have this bitter taste in their mouths all the time, and issues/bugs would not be such a gigantic problem, because we would have info on whats really going on behind the scenes and what we can expect.

[TribalzWolf]

What i want to know is having guild leaders attend is all well and good, but how does that represent the players who are not in guilds?