Pudsley Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Seriously Bioware, is this really needed? How much time and effort are you putting into this "PR Stunt"? Furthermore, what exactly will you get out of it that you couldn't get via other more efficient and convenient means? The answer is: Nothing. Aside from a "meet and greet" for a select few. But doesn't that defeat the entire purpose of having this "summit"? Those actually participating will not be impartial, and the amount of questions thrown at you will be ridiculous. So what happens? You'll probably end up "cherry picking" questions, which you will either answer with information that we already know about, or you'll just use the obligatory "sorry, can't talk about that yet" line. This just sounds like a complete waste of time and effort. Which could have been spent better elsewhere. Seriously, there are other ways to "listen" to the community, including the creation of multiple sectioned surveys, followed by posting the results of those surveys on the forums. That way, EVERYONE can participate in giving feedback, not just a limited number of guilds who will have their own agendas. Have to agree, this reminds me of the fan site summit they held whereby they invited a select few and it had almost zero benefit to the vast majority of players. Sure, go ahead and hold these events, but it's far too early and you have far too much to do, if you don't know what you should be doing by now you just aren't paying attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarka Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 (edited) I agree that is clearly not the case. I think in summary the reality of it all was stated very well by bioware. They can't invite everyone. I think inviting guild masters was a great idea As I indicated earlier, I think this whole thing is a waste of time and effort. As you say, they are inviting SOME i.e. a small subsection of the community. Each participant will have their own agenda and therefore cannot be expected to represent the community as a whole. Multiple sectioned surveys, that is hosted on this very website and thus requires member login, would be more beneficial AND convenient for everyone. A link to that survey could be posted on the game launcher. The survey itself could have different sections (guilds, pvp, raids, single player content, group content, social content, etc, etc). But instead, Bioware "hand picks" guild leaders and hosts a conference in person. In a day and age where video conferencing over the net is common place. Edited February 2, 2012 by Tarka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonexadon Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 (edited) As I indicated earlier, I think this whole thing is a waste of time and effort. As you say, they are inviting SOME i.e. a small subsection of the community. Each participant will have their own agenda and therefore cannot be expected to represent the community as a whole. Bioware stated several times they will have the whole community represented. They did not give the details. I would guess some sort of online live stream / chat Multiple sectioned surveys, that is hosted on this very website and thus requires member login, would be more beneficial AND convenient for everyone. Why could they not also do one in the future? Personally I think a conversation can get much more detail than any survey Why not give it a chance, I don't see the harm in it at all. It is another for of communication. One that is on a much more personal level. I also hope it could lead to a yearly event where it would open up to everyone (with limited seats, like blizcon). Would be awesome. Edited February 2, 2012 by Dragonexadon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmachiA Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 There's really no harm in the summit. If people go, it's just people who paid money to go talk to Bioware on stuff that may or may not be relevant. It doesn't mean it's the end all be all for the game. There will be more customer feedback in the future. That's how I see it anyway. As much as I would love to go, I'm pretty sure they won't suddenly close the forums down because they got all the info they wanted from the summit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarka Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 (edited) Bioware stated several times they will have the whole community represented. They did not give the details. I would guess some sort of online live stream / chat I know, which is why it is completely ridiculous spending time, money AND effort to get guild leaders over the texas. When those same guild leaders could just be in "conference" with the rest of the community via the web. Wouldn't you agree? Why could they not also do one in the future? Personally I think a conversation can get much more detail than any survey If you want information, without the need to wade through millions of posts, bickering and difference of opinions, then community-wide surveys are the way to go. Whilst they don't give the "complete picture", nevertheless given Bioware's previous attempts to garner information from the community (i.e. the ridiculous "Are you happy" polls) a detailed survey is far better and more concise. The results of those surveys can then be posted on the forums for ALL to see at a glance. Then it is up to Bioware to decide whether or not they wish to do things in line with the results of those surveys or just completey ignore them. Those surveys also help people to see just how many others feel the same way they do. Why not give it a chance, I don't see the harm in it at all. It is another for of communication. One that is on a much more personal level. Because it is a collossal waste of time, effort and money. The same thing can be achieved for less, in a more convenient way, by other means (video conferencing with Q&A sessions, surveys linked on the launcher, etc, etc). Edited February 2, 2012 by Tarka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hades-LotD Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Thanks for doing this, and perhaps I can get over there if you guys will work with me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elkard Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 So, non-guilded people get no voice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arandmoor Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 A much better approach would have been to openly invite all guilds to apply and then pick randomly. Oh hell no. Picking them totally randomly would give the summit a feeling of "we won" rather than "we're here to do something important". Besides which, randomly selecting people would increase the chances of my friend's sister getting to go. If you've ever met her...she's the absolute LAST person you want at an event like this. Normal criterion would exclude her from the proceedings. A random selection, however, could see her going. And *that* would spell the end of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarka Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 (edited) Oh hell no. Picking them totally randomly would give the summit a feeling of "we won" rather than "we're here to do something important". Besides which, randomly selecting people would increase the chances of my friend's sister getting to go. If you've ever met her...she's the absolute LAST person you want at an event like this. Normal criterion would exclude her from the proceedings. A random selection, however, could see her going. And *that* would spell the end of the game. Lol. What's to stop a player who just happens to be a guild leader and like your sister being invited anyhow? Edited February 2, 2012 by Tarka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pogmahone Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 I know, which is why it is completely ridiculous spending time, money AND effort to get guild leaders over the texas. When those same guild leaders could just be in "conference" with the rest of the community via the web. Wouldn't you agree? If you want information, without the need to wade through millions of posts, bickering and difference of opinions, then community-wide surveys are the way to go. Whilst they don't give the "complete picture", nevertheless given Bioware's previous attempts to garner information from the community (i.e. the ridiculous "Are you happy" polls) a detailed survey is far better and more concise. The results of those surveys can then be posted on the forums for ALL to see at a glance. Then it is up to Bioware to decide whether or not they wish to do things in line with the results of those surveys or just completey ignore them. Those surveys also help people to see just how many others feel the same way they do. Because it is a collossal waste of time, effort and money. The same thing can be achieved for less, in a more convenient way, by other means (video conferencing with Q&A sessions, surveys linked on the launcher, etc, etc). I tend to agree with this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarka Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 (edited) Sure, go ahead and hold these events, but it's far too early and you have far too much to do, if you don't know what you should be doing by now you just aren't paying attention. QFT. People have been pointing out the flaws with the game for a while now, well before launch. If they want an "updated perspective" then they only need to host focused community-wide surveys that allow the ENTIRE member community to participate. Not just a handful of "cherry picked" guilds who, in all probability, don't accurately represent the opinions of the entire paying community. Edited February 2, 2012 by Tarka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pudsley Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Why not give it a chance, I don't see the harm in it at all. It is another for of communication. One that is on a much more personal level. I'l reserve final judgement until I see the transcripts if any actually surface, the last summit was less about giving information to the community and more about being worshipped by a select few. If they cover some of the topics I'm most interested in then I'll change my mind about this but I'm still hovering over the "complete waste of time" camp atm. On my list is the lackluster raiding (cleared both raid dungeons in just over a week with the most casual, under geared and laid back raid force I've every been a part of (relaxed and laid back was the point but those raid dungeons were pathetic and to clear both with level 50 starter gear was a joke). A new tier raid dungeon with a minimum gear level that requires a raid group to have geared up from previous raid dungeons is a must. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pogmahone Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 (edited) Bioware stated several times they will have the whole community represented. They did not give the details. I would guess some sort of online live stream / chat Most likely in the middle of the day when everyone is at work. Edited February 2, 2012 by pogmahone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarka Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Most likely in the middle of the day when everyone is at work. Or at peak time in the US, which is during the night in the EU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_banana Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 So, non-guilded people get no voice? Holy crap, why do people like to skip over parts of the conversation and then complain? There will be a way for those not attending in person to participate, and it will not be closed to those who aren't in a guild. Also, serious question: why do you want to be anti-social in a social game? Unless you have a group of unguilded people you play with regularly. In which case... why don't you form a guild with them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarka Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 (edited) I'l reserve final judgement until I see the transcripts if any actually surface, the last summit was less about giving information to the community and more about being worshipped by a select few. If they cover some of the topics I'm most interested in then I'll change my mind about this but I'm still hovering over the "complete waste of time" camp atm. On my list is the lackluster raiding (cleared both raid dungeons in just over a week with the most casual, under geared and laid back raid force I've every been a part of (relaxed and laid back was the point but those raid dungeons were pathetic and to clear both with level 50 starter gear was a joke). A new tier raid dungeon with a minimum gear level that requires a raid group to have geared up from previous raid dungeons is a must. Very true indeed. The guilds who will go will no doubt be quite avid fans to the point whereby they will cheer at ANYTHING the devs say, and then come away saying that it was all worthwhile (simply because they were in the same room as the devs and perhaps got a few freebies). In short, this is nothing more than a PR stunt. Sure we may get thrown a metaphorical bone with regards a particular subject, whilst others will be quickly glossed over as they weren't ready to talk about that subject yet. Seriously Bioware, more action and less posturing. Edited February 2, 2012 by Tarka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scorpienne Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 So, non-guilded people get no voice? By talking to a non-guilded person, Bioware learns what that one person thinks about the game. While that person will have a rich input because of her experiences, she's limited to only really knowing what she thinks, and what she's gleaned from the forums (here and elsewhere) as well as general chat. A good guild leader should have some clue what her guild thinks about the game and what they want from it. By talking to that one person, Bioware can get a summary of real opinion from many more people. *Plus* they get the experience from that guild leader's play, forum participation, and chat tolerance. Or do you see it a different way, Elkard? What's an efficient way for Bioware (or anyone, for that matter) to understand what's going on with large segments of the unguilded population? Paige Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hades-LotD Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 When I attended the AGDC in 2009 and visited with Bioware members at the convention, I'll say that the personal time and networking pays more divends than doing some Skype conference. They need to have focus sessions and get detailed feedback, and you can only do that with a manageable in person type event. Good luck to those, including me, who've entered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarka Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 (edited) By talking to a non-guilded person, Bioware learns what that one person thinks about the game. While that person will have a rich input because of her experiences, she's limited to only really knowing what she thinks, and what she's gleaned from the forums (here and elsewhere) as well as general chat. And thats different to someone who's in a guild how? A good guild leader should have some clue what her guild thinks about the game and what they want from it. By talking to that one person, Bioware can get a summary of real opinion from many more people. *Plus* they get the experience from that guild leader's play, forum participation, and chat tolerance. You're talking about serious and organised guilds with their own agendas. No. You don't get any more of a "real" opinion from a guild leader than what you would talking to anyone else. EVERYONE's opinion should be valued, not just those of a few "cherry picked" guilds. Or do you see it a different way, Elkard? What's an efficient way for Bioware (or anyone, for that matter) to understand what's going on with large segments of the unguilded population? Paige Community wide survey's. EVERYONE can participate in them, regardless of their guild status. Edited February 2, 2012 by Tarka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matic Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 guild summit is nice just don't let them talk you into making this game a raid or die type game. remember Hardcore raiders are loudest minority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonexadon Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 I know, which is why it is completely ridiculous spending time, money AND effort to get guild leaders over the texas. When those same guild leaders could just be in "conference" with the rest of the community via the web. Wouldn't you agree? No, the way people interact via the web is 100% different than in person. Take the forums for example. To see someone, see that they care and are trying (or perhaps not caring and not trying) is a difference experience. If you want information, without the need to wade through millions of posts, bickering and difference of opinions, then community-wide surveys are the way to go. Whilst they don't give the "complete picture", nevertheless given Bioware's previous attempts to garner information from the community (i.e. the ridiculous "Are you happy" polls) a detailed survey is far better and more concise.Gathering information is always better when face to face first. When you do test case situations you normally always get an in person 1 on 1 with the users of your product for best results. Surveys are great. not as great as in person The results of those surveys can then be posted on the forums for ALL to see at a glance. Then it is up to Bioware to decide whether or not they wish to do things in line with the results of those surveys or just completey ignore them. Those surveys also help people to see just how many others feel the same way they do.I have no problem with this. Because it is a collossal waste of time, effort and money. The same thing can be achieved for less, in a more convenient way, by other means (video conferencing with Q&A sessions, surveys linked on the launcher, etc, etc). I disagree. It is a great way to get a chance to express our concerns directly. An in person dialog is a great social tool that you can't replace with any form of online communication. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarka Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 guild summit is nice just don't let them talk you into making this game a raid or die type game. remember Hardcore raiders are loudest minority. True, given the state of the game, end game crafting is awful and end game solo'ing is VERY limited (as usual) to the dailies. Thus the larger guilds are, in all likelihood, going to be focused on raiding or PVP or both. And THOSE are the guilds that will probably be hand picked by Bioware to go to this summit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonexadon Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 True, given the state of the game, end game crafting is awful and end game solo'ing is VERY limited (as usual) to the dailies. Thus the larger guilds are, in all likelihood, going to be focused on raiding or PVP or both. And THOSE are the guilds that will probably be hand picked by Bioware to go to this summit. My guild is involved in every aspect of the game. End game, crafting, leveling, questing, flashpoints, open world pvp (that's outside of ilum). I am sure there are plenty of guilds just like my guild that is going. It is also unfair to make a judgement based on lack of facts. Bioware stated they invited small guilds as well as large guilds. It seems pretty random at who they invited (from what bioware stated) So until there is proof otherwise I will believe what bioware stated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quantum_Icecube Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Seems like a pretty honest and neat way to get opinions on the game from those who care about playing it and represent other people who care about playing it. Nothing sinister here. I find this lack of faith in Bioware disturbing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ransom_BiC Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Dude you have no idea how much I want a hairstylist >.>. So much QFT right here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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