Announcing The Old Republic Guild Summit

[Tarka]

No, the way people interact via the web is 100% different than in person. Take the forums for example. To see someone, see that they care and are trying (or perhaps not caring and not trying) is a difference experience.

 

Whilst I agree, your point is irrelevant. There's going to be all these guilds going, with many questions thrown at the devs. So what are they going to do? Cherry pick the questions being thrown at them by biased individuals, who in all likelihood will cream themselves for just being in the same room as the devs.

 

So what exactly are they going to acheive? Probably very little.

 

Gathering information is always better when face to face first. When you do test case situations you normally always get an in person 1 on 1 with the users of your product for best results.

 

Surveys are great. not as great as in person

I have no problem with this.

 

I disagree. It is a great way to get a chance to express our concerns directly. An in person dialog is a great social tool that you can't replace with any form of online communication.

 

Sorry, but I think you really have a romantic view of this whole "summit" thing. What exactly do you think is going to happen, and how many guild leaders are going? Hmmm? If it's a few, then they really are not very representative of the community. If it's a lot, it will be like a press conference:

• Dev Presentation
  
• Q&A with either cherry picked questions, or lots of "we can't answer that right now" replies.
  
• Complete a survey to give feedback on how good it was.
  

[Tarka]

My guild is involved in every aspect of the game. End game, crafting, leveling, questing, flashpoints, open world pvp (that's outside of ilum).

 

I am sure there are plenty of guilds just like my guild that is going. It is also unfair to make a judgement based on lack of facts. Bioware stated they invited small guilds as well as large guilds. It seems pretty random at who they invited (from what bioware stated)

 

So until there is proof otherwise I will believe what bioware stated.

 

And how many are going hmmm? If it's a handful of guild leaders then you cannot expect them to represent the entire feelings of the community with any degree of accuracy. And if it's a lot, then some sort of organisation is required to stop that "summit" from descending into chaos with difference of opinions.

 

So what will happen? I can't say for sure, but if I had to guess it sounds like nothing more than a "Press Conference" but with selected guild leaders instead of the press. Who will all no doubt walk away from this costly event, regardless of the degree of information given, with a euphoric and misplaced feeling of feeling special and being "part of the development". Singing Bioware's praises.

 

It's a PR Stunt. Nothing more. If the idea is to get a good representation of the feelings of the ENTIRE community, there are other less costly ways.

Edited February 2, 2012 by Tarka

[Dragonexadon]

 

Sorry, but I think you really have a romantic view of this whole "summit" thing. What exactly do you think is going to happen,

 

To be fair, none of us knows what will happen at this event. The details have been vague at best. I am just giving bioware the benefit of the doubt. I believe it's a good idea. I don't think any points I make will change your mind and that's fine.

 

I think regardless of what you or I think though the summit WILL happen. So , knowng that, would it not be best for us to make...well...the best of it?

 

Once the guilds are chosen to go find out which guilds are going, voice your concerns to them so they can bring it to the table in person.

 

As well as be ready to join in whatever way they let the public join (most likely via a live stream)

 

And...if the outcome is shabby you can then say

 

"See? I told you it was bad, I tried to voice my opinion, I followed all the steps, and still I was never heard"

 

I see that more valid then

 

"I don't like this idea so I wont even try, it's a waste of time and it will never work".

[Ransom_BiC]

I sort of hope that 75% of the people in this thread don't get chosen to attend. I can't imagine a productive question/answer session with some of these people.

[WarheartZero]

I sort of hope that 75% of the people in this thread don't get chosen to attend. I can't imagine a productive question/answer session with some of these people.

 

lol rofl!!!!! So true!

[Benfynyn]

When are you going to tell us the criteria for the pre-selected (expenses paid) Guild Leaders?

 

 

How did you weigh one guild vs another to decide who you wanted to attend?

[Kellindell]

What is a "select group"?

 

How does one make the cut?

 

Im not sure who is in your PR department, but when you say it like that it sounds like you are padding the questions to be asked to create ill gotten positive feedback. And those kinds of comments are flying around the forums and in general chat.

 

Im not saying you are, but alot of the Dev posts put a really bad taste in the players mouth, and this one is no different.

[eezee]

This is nothing more then a PR stunt by Bioware. Who in their right mind is going to pay for all of their travel, food, and lodging expenses? If Bioware was serious about this, they would pay for the travel expenses. Why would I want to take time off work, then spend my own money, to help EA make money?

[Tarka]

To be fair, none of us knows what will happen at this event. The details have been vague at best. I am just giving bioware the benefit of the doubt. I believe it's a good idea. I don't think any points I make will change your mind and that's fine.

 

I think regardless of what you or I think though the summit WILL happen. So , knowng that, would it not be best for us to make...well...the best of it?

 

Once the guilds are chosen to go find out which guilds are going, voice your concerns to them so they can bring it to the table in person.

 

As well as be ready to join in whatever way they let the public join (most likely via a live stream)

 

And...if the outcome is shabby you can then say

 

"See? I told you it was bad, I tried to voice my opinion, I followed all the steps, and still I was never heard"

 

I see that more valid then

 

"I don't like this idea so I wont even try, it's a waste of time and it will never work".

 

So, in other words, you're fully willing for Bioware to waste time, effort, manpower and money on something that only a subsection of the community can actively participate in, whilst the rest are left without a voice because Bioware seem to think that those in participation represent the entire community.

 

Even though there is very little that can be achieved in the summit that cannot be acheived via more convenient, concise, less costly and more accurate ways.

[Scorpienne]

Community wide survey's. EVERYONE can participate in them, regardless of their guild status.

 

I agree that this would be an interesting thing to do.

 

My opinion is that a community wide survey does not meet the same needs that the guild summit will.

 

 

Paige

[Dragonexadon]

So, in other words, you're fully willing for Bioware to waste time, effort, manpower and money on something that only a subsection of the community can actively participate in, whilst the rest are left without a voice because Bioware seem to think that those in participation represent the entire community.

 

Even though there is very little that can be achieved in the summit that cannot be acheived via more convenient, concise, less costly and more accurate ways.

 

No, that is not what I said at all. I already disagreed with you that it was a waste of time, manpower, and money.

 

My point is ,knowing they are going to do this, it not better to try it and see if the results are worth it rather then claim it will never work and not take part?

Edited February 2, 2012 by Dragonexadon

[Tarka]

I sort of hope that 75% of the people in this thread don't get chosen to attend. I can't imagine a productive question/answer session with some of these people.

 

Bioware: "Guild banks are coming....no....really.....for sure!"

 

Majority of participants: "Yeeeeaaayyy....woohooo!!!"

 

One particpant at the back: "Erm....we already knew that. But what about <insert question here>"

 

Majority of particpants: "Tsk....you're not helping this summit to be productive!"

[Tarka]

I agree that this would be an interesting thing to do.

 

My opinion is that a community wide survey does not meet the same needs that the guild summit will.

 

 

Paige

 

Really? How do they differ in why they are created?

 

After all, the WHOLE point of the summit is

 

"to facilitate an open discussion between guild leaders and the game design team."

 

Now, guild leaders are only being invited because it's just not feasible to invite everyone.

 

But in the end, the goals for the summit are the same as what can be achieved by other means.

Edited February 2, 2012 by Tarka

[Darvus]

I highly recommend you hold off on this until you hear back on the status of your application. First, because I don't want you putting money down until you get invited, but more importantly, because I've been securing much cheaper rates than that across hotels in the immediate area (including the DoubleTree itself). More information will be provided to the attendees, and we've got rooms reserved already, so you don't have to worry about them running out.

 

Will we be notified if we are NOT selected?

[Ron_Moore]

You've got to be kidding me...

[Tarka]

No, that is not what I said at all. I already disagreed with you that it was a waste of time, manpower, and money.

 

How exactly do you personally think this "summit" is going to play out?

Do you perhaps think that each and every guild leader is going to get a bit of quality "one-to-one" time with a dev, where you get to determine the future of the product?

Where you can throw a loooong list of questions at each dev in turn?

 

And how do you think that's going to work with numerous other guild leaders in attendance?

 

Think about it. Then think about the results of that summit and how the same could be achieved via other means.

 

My point is ,knowing they are going to do this, it not better to try it and see if the results are worth it rather then claim it will never work and not take part?

 

Sometimes, trying things for the sake of trying them, is a REALLY bad idea.

For instance, would you make a chocolate car just because no one else has?

My point is that sometimes common sense suggests that time and money spent on such a venture is a bad and wasteful idea.

 

Unless there is good enough justification to try something, then doing so can prove very costly and be of very little worth.

 

And right now, the summit is of very little worth to the community as a whole. Why?

Because the summit is only of worth to those with the most active participation i.e. those in physical attendance. Others are most likely going to be passively participating in it. Otherwise there would be very little reason for the guild leaders to go there.

 

So what exactly will the community get out of it?

Well given Bioware's reluctance to talk about ANYTHING until it is practically ready for launch (with a few exceptions), do you honestly think that the results of this summit will be any different if they had just released information on that date and not held the summit?

 

So what exactly are they going to achieve in the summit that wouldn't be acheived via other means?

 

These are all intended to be rhetorical questions. I've said my piece.

Edited February 2, 2012 by Tarka

[rlhaas]

I'd be all for something like this if it was like 'WareCon 2012' or something. It's not.

[skuggz]

It's a PR Stunt. Nothing more. If the idea is to get a good representation of the feelings of the ENTIRE community, there are other less costly ways.

 

How is this dramatically different from the way we do government? Representatives are sent to advocate on behalf of the larger whole, because the whole is too large, dispersed, easily swayed, etc. to be reliable sounding board on intricate issues... I'm not saying it's the perfect way to do things, but, lets be honest, we've been drinking that kool-aid for a while.

 

If they just wanna know feelings, they could send out a survey... It sounds like they wanna discuss more concrete things than that... Surveying the whole populace just wouldn't be productive. 2/3 of us wouldn't bother to respond, and those who did would find it all but impossible to collaborate and elaborate... They would just shoot off an opinion and let the dev's sort if out... is that really what you want?

 

Secondly, how are you not a fan of player input? Even if it's largely symbolic... It still shows they care enough to make a show of it.

 

Frankly, if there is gonna be input, guild leaders are a great spot to start, they are (and this is a generalization) more invested then the unguilded player. I've known a lot of guilds, in a lot of games, and only a tiny percentage who I wouldn't say felt a deeper responsibility to pursue a quality gaming experience and promote a better atmosphere.

[Jadarra]

Really? How do they differ in why they are created?

 

After all, the WHOLE point of the summit is

 

"to facilitate an open discussion between guild leaders and the game design team."

 

Now, guild leaders are only being invited because it's just not feasible to invite everyone.

 

But in the end, the goals for the summit are the same as what can be achieved by other means.

 

I have to disagree with your last statement. The goals might be the same, but the methods of achieving them are different.

 

A survey allows for you to provide feedback at length about a variety of topics. It's a very useful tool and one that should be utilized often. The questions are static and a survey typically does not allow for generation of new ideas on a spur of the moment basis. Survey responses are analyzed, categorized and sometimes a very clinical response to the surveys results can then be obtained. What it does not do is create a discussion.

 

A discussion is back and forth communication. An exchange of information at a dynamic pace. It allows for greater creativity. It allows for John Que to say, 'wait a minute, we might be able to do that,' or for John Que to explain in depth and visually perhaps why something cannot be done, or any number of possibilities.

 

Both are useful, both should be utilized to the fullest, but imho, discussion trumps survey in any situation.

[Dragonexadon]

Sometimes, trying things for the sake of trying them, is a REALLY bad idea. Unless there is good enough justification to try something, then doing so can prove very costly and be of very little worth.

There is plenty of good justification behind it. It is just justification you don't agree with.

 

And right now, the summit is of very little worth to the community as a whole. Why? Because the summit is only of worth to those in participation.

Two things

1) Everyone can participate in some fashion (as bioware stated)

2) All forms of communication work only if both sides participate in said communication. Even with surveys.

 

So what will the community get out of it?

A chance to express their concerns and the concerns of the massives in a vocal form of civil dialog. A growing conversation that enables both sides to understand what is going on

 

Well given Bioware's reluctance to talk about ANYTHING until it is practically ready for launch (with a few exceptions),

This is normal, you have to word things carefully when displaying to the public. As proven here by how people panic.

 

do you honestly think that the results of this summit will be any different if they had just released information on that date?

I think they are looking for concerns, of the players. Not about getting information early of content to come.

So what exactly are they going to achieve in the summit that wouldn't be acheived via other means?

 

• Person to person CIVIL communication
  
• The chance for both developers and players to understand the current state of the game
  
• Open dialog on how the players and developers feel the game can move in a positive direction
  
• A chance for guild leaders to express the concerns of their members
  
• A chance for online users to interact with the discussion in some form of live steam / chat system
  
• Validation to players that BIOWARe is listening
  

 

Outside of this list though. I can't stress enough how different in person communication is from online communication. Even with surveys. I can picture so many users filling out

 

"This game sucks compared to WoW lol". and flooding the results with data that is not useful.

 

In person communication provides accountability from both sides of the discussion.

 

I know you wont agree with me afterwards and I am sorry we don't see eye to eye. I just ask that knowing this will happen I hope players like you at least TRY to form of communication (if possible).

 

If we all try it and it works it will only result in a positive outcome with the game we all love.

Edited February 2, 2012 by Dragonexadon

[Darvus]

We are covering costs for a select group, which will make up a significant number of the attendees. We're obviously also covering all the other running costs for the event.

 

 

So, how do I as a guild leader become a part of this select group? Prior to yesterday, I had not heard about this summit, at all.

[Tarka]

How is this dramatically different from the way we do government? Representatives are sent to advocate on behalf of the larger whole, because the whole is too large, dispersed, easily swayed, etc. to be reliable sounding board on intricate issues... I'm not saying it's the perfect way to do things, but, lets be honest, we've been drinking that kool-aid for a while.

 

Difference is, those who participate in government are ellected to do so. ALL of them particpate. The government doesn't "cherry pick" in that sense.

 

If they just wanna know feelings, they could send out a survey... It sounds like they wanna discuss more concrete things than that... Surveying the whole populace just wouldn't be productive. 2/3 of us wouldn't bother to respond, and those who did would find it all but impossible to collaborate and elaborate... They would just shoot off an opinion and let the dev's sort if out... is that really what you want?

 

Firstly I think you misunderstand what I mean by "survey". I'm talking about multiple choice questions, with answers given that the player selects from. Perhaps with an additional place to put comments. Depending on the nature of the questions they can be precise and concise.

 

Now such a community wide survey, with a link on the launcher gives EVERYONE a chance to get involved in it. If some wish not to, then that is their perogative. But the fact still stands that a survey prevents "cherry picking" individuals to ask questions.

 

Secondly, how are you not a fan of player input? Even if it's largely symbolic... It still shows they care enough to make a show of it.

 

Who says I'm not a fan of player input? This "summit" sounds more of a PR stunt than a valued means to get player input. Why? Because it doesn't actually try to actively involve the entire community. Only a select few.

 

Frankly, if there is gonna be input, guild leaders are a great spot to start, they are (and this is a generalization) more invested then the unguilded player. I've known a lot of guilds, in a lot of games, and only a tiny percentage who I wouldn't say felt a deeper responsibility to pursue a quality gaming experience and promote a better atmosphere.

 

I think it is unfair to infer that unguilded players are worth less, in terms of player feedback, than guilded ones. Guilds rise and fall all of the time in lots of MMO's. More often because of poor populations. Those populations are governed by what the individual player decides to do. Which in itself dispells what you claim.

[Tarka]

I have to disagree with your last statement. The goals might be the same, but the methods of achieving them are different.

 

A survey allows for you to provide feedback at length about a variety of topics. It's a very useful tool and one that should be utilized often. The questions are static and a survey typically does not allow for generation of new ideas on a spur of the moment basis. Survey responses are analyzed, categorized and sometimes a very clinical response to the surveys results can then be obtained. What it does not do is create a discussion.

 

A discussion is back and forth communication. An exchange of information at a dynamic pace. It allows for greater creativity. It allows for John Que to say, 'wait a minute, we might be able to do that,' or for John Que to explain in depth and visually perhaps why something cannot be done, or any number of possibilities.

 

Both are useful, both should be utilized to the fullest, but imho, discussion trumps survey in any situation.

 

I can understand your point of view and agree with it to some degree. But, is the entire point of this "summit" to actually generate new ideas? Given the announcement, it doesn't seem that way.

 

Apparently what is involved is "Q&A sessions with developers, roundtable feedback discussions, and will get a preview of some upcoming game features."

 

To me, this sounds less about getting feedback from the entire community, and more about a PR stunt that can be publically followed by the press and thus keep SWTOR present in the news. Resulting in very little more than what the community already knows.

 

More action is needed to keep players in the game, not just more words.

Edited February 2, 2012 by Tarka

[Benfynyn]

So, how do I as a guild leader become a part of this select group? Prior to yesterday, I had not heard about this summit, at all.

 

The select group has already been selected. No one knows the criteria for the selection but Bioware. The open spaces are all you can apply for now. If chosen out of that group you will have to cover your own costs (travel, lodging etc) but there is no cost to admission.

 

I'm still waiting for an explanation on the selection critera and a list of guilds selected. At some point they will have to disclose who is going and who was selected to have expenses paid (and why).

 

I don't know why they are delaying the inevitable. I DO know that I, for one, will continue to ask for that information.

[Astralll]

I bet guild leaders will discuss new guild features.