Do you support a Mac OS X client in Star Wars the Old Republic?

[metalfenix]

The macs may run this game, but I'm aganist this client, at least for the moment. This game uses the direct X library...and to port them to mac (or linux) maybe it would need to use Open GL, and thus require a total re-write of the code.

 

And considering the big number of bugs and issues already on the windows version, I prefer they tackle them instead of focusing on a total re-write of the code just for this client.

[LaVolpex]

Untrue, Mac users are growing. Also Mac's are not bad for gaming as the hardware in them is usually fairly good for the video editting and 3d rendering software that is used on them.

 

 

they are still overexpensive, overkill and not practical for gaming, why anyone would buy an apple to game with is beyone me, the most asnine OS ive ever used tbh, amazing machines but just cant bear the IOS , its like a toddlers os

 

honestly , i saw what happens when a game is rewritten as a mac client

 

after 3 years of trying , league of legends (f2p moba ) discontinued their mac client because they simply couldnt get it working correctly after each patch, and it slowed the loading times and such when playing against pc users and vice versa

 

with the amount of bugs and bad coding the hero engine already has, you wouldnt see a beta version of a mac client for the next 2 years even if they started writing it today..

 

dont keep your hopes up, and run bootcamp and windows on your mac like the rest of the world and save yoruself the hassle

Edited January 26, 2012 by LaVolpex

[Lethality]

I feel zero sympathy for Mac users who can't play a game nativity. I mean they knew that games aren't designed for Mac's when they bought their expensive toy.

 

Sure they are. I've played every game I ever wanted to. Natively. On the Mac.

 

You buy a niche item, and then complain that an industry doesn't conform to you. Makes zero sense to me, but hey I just use windows like 96% (made up number on the internet!) of the world.

 

If everyone jumped off of a cliff, would you follow them too?

 

I got news for you - 15% of the domestic market share isn't a "niche". 30% of the WoW subscriber base isn't a "niche".

 

It's a lucrative market that software developers - especially those of a main stream casual game based on a popular culture genre like Star Wars - are foolish to ignore.

 

Luckily, we know it's coming to the Mac based on Dr. Z's recent comments. Seems like BioWare knows more than you, and understands the opportunity.

[Lethality]

The macs may run this game, but I'm aganist this client, at least for the moment. This game uses the direct X library...and to port them to mac (or linux) maybe it would need to use Open GL, and thus require a total re-write of the code.

 

Just display code. The other 90% of the game is platform agnostic, obviously.

 

And considering the big number of bugs and issues already on the windows version, I prefer they tackle them instead of focusing on a total re-write of the code just for this client.

 

That doesn't make them any more money. Releasing a Mac version would be the single biggest infuser of new cash they could grab.

[Nighthawked]

Can we please stop the "macs are over expensive" discussion? Not only is this statement false most of the time, this topic is not about the price of macs.

 

I would like a mac client, but I do not mind waiting until all the bugs are fixed.

[Lethality]

they are still overexpensive, overkill and not practical for gaming, why anyone would buy an apple to game with is beyone me, the most asnine OS ive ever used tbh, amazing machines but just cant bear the IOS , its like a toddlers os

 

Tell that to doctors, engineers, scientists, designers, musicians and artists - all of which overwhelmingly prefer the Mac over Windows. You know - the smart, creative, successful and professional people.

 

honestly , i saw what happens when a game is rewritten as a mac client

 

after 3 years of trying , league of legends (f2p moba ) discontinued their mac client because they simply couldnt get it working correctly after each patch, and it slowed the loading times and such when playing against pc users and vice versa

 

There's no question BioWare made a HUGE mistake by not doing simultaneous development from the start. It does make parity in a port that much more difficult. Porting is worse than dual-development.

 

I can't completely blame them, when they started in 2005, the Mac market share was much, much different than it is today. Now, it's just silly to ignore the Mac for mainstream software if you're a developer.

 

with the amount of bugs and bad coding the hero engine already has, you wouldnt see a beta version of a mac client for the next 2 years even if they started writing it today..

 

dont keep your hopes up, and run bootcamp and windows on your mac like the rest of the world and save yoruself the hassle

 

Apparently you missed Dr. Greg's comments in a recent interview...

Edited January 26, 2012 by Lethality

[Maeleena]

Nope. Rather BW spent time on the game then on a version of the game that isn't needed. They can easily use Boot Camp if needed.

[Lethality]

Nope. Rather BW spent time on the game then on a version of the game that isn't needed. They can easily use Boot Camp if needed.

 

Windows isn't included with my Mac or with TOR, so it's an added expense of about $200, not to mention the hassle of installing and maintaining it.

 

Oh, and that's not the topic of this thread. It's about a native OS X client.

[Rheatosa]

I support this.

 

It's EA; they could just use Cider as they usually do. Or work with Codeweavers to get it published that way. This would be preferable, since the game already works fine under WINE, aside from its inability to communicate with the servers that appeared right at the end of the beta, for reasons absolutely nobody has a clue about. With Bioware's cooperation I imagine this could be resolved in under a week. This is how many (likely the majority) of "mac native" games work.

 

That way they don't have to rewrite anything, it is still supported and works well, and uses relatively minimal development time on Bioware's part.

 

As for all the people insisting on the use of Boot Camp: rebooting for a single task is not really worth it and is a drastic hit to productivity (and yes, before you point it out, moreso than playing TOR is). I like to multitask heavily (I usually have 40-50 windows open at a time, many of which have a number of tabs); using Windows largely strips me of this ability, and I have to restore my state after booting back into OS X.

 

It is perhaps worth noting that the game runs reasonably well under virtualisation, at least on my machine. Unfortunately, the camera control is almost unusably hyperactive.

 

Yes, I assume someone already said all that, but I confess to not reading all 16 pages. Most of what I did read was "rage macs suck rage", which is counterproductive.

Edited January 26, 2012 by Rheatosa

[Revsx]

Don't think an OSX client should be a priority as it would surely take up lots of resources that would be better used to provide updates/content.

 

The windows client itself already has its issues that need fixing, which is taking longer then expected. Imagine having to support a second client with its own issues.

 

Any port/emulation layer would further decrease performance of an already under performing customized engine, so the only solution would be to rewrite and recompile it with opengl support. Just don't see it happening soon.

 

Just fyi, i'm an avid linux user for both work and home use but to play games i boot to win 7. I would never demand a linux client and can accept the fact that windows is the gaming OS.

 

Anyway we can discuss this all day but we don't have the numbers, BW/EA has and the estimated cost vs potential income calculations will decide this for us.

[Davvos]

I'd love a MAC port.. I'd like to run while in MAC and not in Parallels nor in Bootcamp.

[Midsyde]

Windows isn't included with my Mac or with TOR, so it's an added expense of about $200, not to mention the hassle of installing and maintaining it.

 

Oh, and that's not the topic of this thread. It's about a native OS X client.

 

 

Really? first off installing and "maintenance" are not a hassle if you have any computer background.

 

and $200?.....do you have morals or something? PIRATE IT.

[Cartumandua]

I don't support it or not support it.

 

But, Macs actually running a Mac OS only make up about 5% of the market, so I wouldn't hold your breath.

 

I don't think it is that high anymore, but I could be wrong.

 

Why port to a platform with that small a market? Supporting two clients and coordinating bug fixes across both is a royal pain and should be avoided if at all reasonable.

 

So, no, I think it would be a waste of money and effort for them to port to a mac.

[daemian]

I don't think it is that high anymore, but I could be wrong.

 

You are. But overall market share is largely irrelevant to the question at hand.

[ThiborF]

yes

 

apple is a 30% market share

 

WoW does it...

 

id prefer not to wreck my mac with a virus i got through windows

 

30% market share?

Source?

 

Because all I find are sources indicating numbers MUCH south of 30% ...

 

Oct'11 - Mac OSX 6.45% of market share http://www.bgr.com/2011/10/03/ios-and-mac-os-x-market-shares-hit-record-highs/

 

Dec'11 - Mac OS X 6.3% of market share http://www.netmarketshare.com/operating-system-market-share.aspx?qprid=10

 

Or did you read an article like this Feb'10 one saying usage was up 29% (defined by "web use") ... to a whopping ... 10.9%

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/10/02/27/mac_os_x_market_share_up_29_leopard_still_most_common.html

 

More 6.45% stuff ... http://www.fiercecio.com/techwatch/story/mac-os-x-gains-market-share-ups-pressure-windows-8/2011-10-04

 

Or from Mar'11 you can look at it by country and region (as opposed to world-wide stats in other articles) and see that the highest Mac OS usage in a country is Switzerland with a little over 17% (far cry from your alleged 30)

http://www.startuphustle.com/2011/03/27/mac-osx-market-share/

 

So please ... enlighten us where your so called 30% is? Your circle of 10 friends where three of them are Mac users?

[NuanceNW]

I worked as a consultant to a tech industry that used a lot of Sun workstations. One person during an event asked a Microsoft rep when they would support Sun with their office products, the response was when they passed 15% marketshare for operating systems. (This wasn't entirely the case, Microsoft also looked at the Amiga operating system for a while and when they finally got access to their companies business plan they walked away from it.)

 

With Apple walking away from Final Cut Professional users, I would question their long term commitment to the desktop, they seem to be focusing all their efforts on mobile...

 

Here's the marketshare numbers from Gartner research

 

In August 2011, Gartner estimated Apple's PC market share in US as 10.7% for Q2 2011. Apple's worldwide market share is not listed, because not in top 5; inferred to be 5% or below. Gartner's numbers include netbooks, but not media tablets such as the iPad. Total units in Q2 2011 from all vendors, ~85 million.[3]

 

"A Gartner forecast calls for Mac OS to ship on 4.5 percent of new PCs worldwide in 2011 and 5.2 percent in 2015. Gartner does not expect Google Chrome OS, Google Android or HP's webOS to get 'any significant market share' on PCs in the next few years, and expects Linux operating systems to remain at less than 2 percent share over the next several years."[4]

 

Apple reports selling 4 million Macs in Q2 2011, the third quarter in Apple's fiscal year.[5]

 

Here's a look at all the OS's marketshare in graphical form.

 

I believe Windows 7 just passed the 300 million user mark...

 

This doesn't change the fact that the heavily modified Hero Engine this game uses doesn't currently support Apple's operating systems. The petitions here might have a better impact if directed at Hero Engine.

 

This is like the HD-DVD vs Blu-Ray argument. When Micheal Bay picked a side he pretty won the debate on toolset. Blu-Ray had better tools to create the final product, HD-DVD didn't. For this debate Windows has a huge toolset... libraries, developer base, developer education curriculum, consultants, consultants and more consultants.

 

I would only ask that if Bioware makes an Apple OS client, that they not lose money doing it so the game can survive the long haul.

Edited January 26, 2012 by NuanceNW

[daemian]

Well, since we're posting stats*:

 

"Macbook Pro and iMac are number one notebooks and desktops in the U.S. Mac has been growing 23%; PC market growing 4%, over last year. Mac has outpaced PCs every quarter for five years. Close to 60 million Mac users around the world now. In U.S. retail, Mac is now 23% market share – close to one in four [that's current retail market, not overall market share]."

 

Forbes

*none of which have any bearing on how many Mac users would potentially be playing TOR if an OS X client were available.

Edited January 26, 2012 by daemian

[Zarrot]

I would rather the focus on new features than write a client version for beings with paws.

[Slteath]

contract the coding work out is okay, as long as it doesn't hold up the budget for them to develope new contents or fixing bugs or what not. So in a way, I do support OS X client, but with the requirement that it won't affect the current game development.

 

but honestly, MAC people out there, you really just have to accept the fact that MAC OS doesn't support a lot of games. If you want to play games, get a PC. It is really not about whether PC or MAC is better, it is about getting the right tool for the right job. PC supports far many more games out there, and the chances are, you won't have a MAC version.

 

And then, some people said, "I just don't understand how can you buy a PC just for gaming." well.... then my question is, "why buy a computer that cannot game?" Tell me one thing that MAC can do that PC cannot. because I can tell you at least one thing that PC can do that MAC cannot, GAME.

[daemian]

contract the coding work out is okay, as long as it doesn't hold up the budget for them to develope new contents or fixing bugs or what not. So in a way, I do support OS X client, but with the requirement that it won't affect the current game development.

 

but honestly, MAC people out there, you really just have to accept the fact that MAC OS doesn't support a lot of games. If you want to play games, get a PC. It is really not about whether PC or MAC is better, it is about getting the right tool for the right job. PC supports far many more games out there, and the chances are, you won't have a MAC version.

 

And then, some people said, "I just don't understand how can you buy a PC just for gaming." well.... then my question is, "why buy a computer that cannot game?" Tell me one thing that MAC can do that PC cannot. because I can tell you at least one thing that PC can do that MAC cannot, GAME.

 

Macs are perfectly capable of gaming. This thread is for those who want Bioware to release an OS X client for TOR so they don't have to install Windows.

Edited January 26, 2012 by daemian

[Nytak]

I'd rather see BioWare work out a majority of the current client issue before attempting to port the client to MacOS. They already have enough stuff to fix without doubling their testing.

 

There simply isn't enough ROI to justify releasing Mac clients.

[daemian]

There simply isn't enough ROI to justify releasing Mac clients.

 

I see this comment a lot, but I haven't seen any supporting facts to back it up. Historically, it seems this just isn't the case.

Edited January 26, 2012 by daemian

[Nytak]

I see this comment a lot, but I haven't seen any supporting facts to back it up. Historically, it seems this just isn't the case.

 

Don't need to, just look at market share on PC vs Mac. Just because they have become more popular in recent years doesn't mean they have come anywhere close to garnering widespread support from game developers. It's not a hardware issue, it's more like DirectX vs OpenGL etc etc.

 

Sorry, but the closest you are going to get to Mac support is running it on a VM with something like VMWare Fusion.

 

Same reason Linux users are stuck with Wine. Even companies that at one point created and supported Linux clients for their game, they dropped them due to the massive imbalance between the number of developers required to maintain the client and the number of players actually using the client (cough CCP cough).

[Slteath]

Macs are perfectly capable of gaming. This thread is for those who want Bioware to release an OS X client for TOR so they don't have to install Windows.

 

Modern Warfare 3? Battlefield 3?? how about the classic X-Com: UFO? Skyrim?

[daemian]

Modern Warfare 3? Battlefield 3?? how about the classic X-Com: UFO? Skyrim?

 

All of the above. In Windows, of course.

 

Don't need to, just look at market share on PC vs Mac. Just because they have become more popular in recent years doesn't mean they have come anywhere close to garnering widespread support from game developers. It's not a hardware issue, it's more like DirectX vs OpenGL etc etc.

 

Sorry, but the closest you are going to get to Mac support is running it on a VM with something like VMWare Fusion.

 

Same reason Linux users are stuck with Wine. Even companies that at one point created and supported Linux clients for their game, they dropped them due to the massive imbalance between the number of developers required to maintain the client and the number of players actually using the client (cough CCP cough).

 

What does any of that have to do with ROI? Historically, Bioware and Blizzard and CCP have done quite well while also releasing Mac clients for their games, regardless of the worldwide market share of Apple computers.

Edited January 26, 2012 by daemian