HELhikari Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 I don't see why not; I don't have a Mac, but I don't see why they shouldn't make a client for it. I guess it depends how cost effective they think it'll be. I suspect the deciding factor will be whether the Hero engine can be (easily) modified to use OpenGL instead of DirectX - I have a feeling it's very tightly bound to DirectX. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HELhikari Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 (edited) I'd rather see BioWare work out a majority of the current client issue before attempting to port the client to MacOS. They already have enough stuff to fix without doubling their testing. There simply isn't enough ROI to justify releasing Mac clients. The first point isn't really valid - porting tends to be done by a dedicated porting team, mostly because you need platform specific knowledge. The second point, however, is. And it's probably the main factor. Porting costs money whatever way you cut it, if they're not going to make enough money of the port to make it worth, they're not going to do it. Well, they will make money eventually, as long as the game is making money. It would just affect how long it takes to happen and that depends how complicated it is. Edited January 26, 2012 by HELhikari Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slteath Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 All of the above. In Windows, of course. yea, and I play all of them. I am trying to be as objective as possible. MAC OS is not good for gamers simply because there are not a lot of games that has MAC version, which end up you have to run bootcamp. So for a gamer, it wouldn't makes sense or him to..... MAC+bootcamp+WINdows = PC, when he can get the PC to begin with. anyway, it is not about which OS is better. and no doubt that a new MAC OS will attract more subscription, but how about the ongoing support of it?? will it be worth it?? we have to consider not just the initial cost of recoding it, but also the ongoing supporting cost. and when I said cost, I mean all costs, not just monetary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nytak Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 What does any of that have to do with ROI? Historically, Bioware and Blizzard and CCP have done quite well while also releasing Mac clients for their games, regardless of the worldwide market share of Apple computers. The fact that they didn't even develop one? Trust me, it has nothing to do with BW wanting to screw over Mac users, it simply has to do with developer resources. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VicSkimmr Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 I see this comment a lot, but I haven't seen any supporting facts to back it up. Historically, it seems this just isn't the case. Of course it's the case. Anyone who wants to game on a Mac knows going in that they'll need to do it via bootcamp. The game companies know this. Frankly, the vast majority of Mac users simply are not gamers. The vast majority of PC users aren't gamers either, and when your sample size is only 10% as large for Mac's, it's pretty easy to realize that the ROI just isn't there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vertigo_ Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 The real reason is: mac's come with garbage video cards, and the ones they do sell are ridiculously overpriced. You cannot just plug in a regular PC video card into a mac, even though they use the same PCI express interface. The bios on the video card is different, to communicate with the system differently. So even if you could port it to mac, the performance would be terrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miliways Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 (edited) The Hero Engine does not support Mac OS X. There will not be a TOR client for Mac. Sorry. Not gonna happen. No way, no how. They're not re-writing an engine that they don't have that they paid for to another platform, just to then have to port their game to another platform, just to get a few users who could play the game already using existing options. You can boot-camp, is your best bet. Blizzard has always co-released on Windows and OSX, its one of the things they just always did going back, because they're based in Cali and several of their programmers are cool and like Apple computers (based in Cali). Blizzard is the exception to the rule here. Almost nobody else does. Go look at the apple store and the games they're showing off. It'll be WoW, warcraft 3, and then some games you've never heard of. TOR does not and has never hinted that they might support OSX. Edited January 26, 2012 by miliways Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daemian Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 The fact that they didn't even develop one? Trust me, it has nothing to do with BW wanting to screw over Mac users, it simply has to do with developer resources. They've stated it's on their list of things they'd like to do. Bioware is and has always been a very Mac-friendly company. Yes, it will take resources. The point I'm making is that people are claiming it's not profitable, when historically that just isn't the case. In fact, the return on the investment would likely benefit all players on all platforms, so I don't even get why people would be opposed to the idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daemian Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 yea, and I play all of them. I am trying to be as objective as possible. MAC OS is not good for gamers simply because there are not a lot of games that has MAC version, which end up you have to run bootcamp. So for a gamer, it wouldn't makes sense or him to..... MAC+bootcamp+WINdows = PC, when he can get the PC to begin with. anyway, it is not about which OS is better. and no doubt that a new MAC OS will attract more subscription, but how about the ongoing support of it?? will it be worth it?? we have to consider not just the initial cost of recoding it, but also the ongoing supporting cost. and when I said cost, I mean all costs, not just monetary We're not talking about a lot of games, we're talking about TOR. We're talking about supporting an OS X client for the people who already own Macs. If the ongoing costs are less than the return on the investment, then it's beneficial to all players to have an OS X client. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nytak Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 They've stated it's on their list of things they'd like to do. Bioware is and has always been a very Mac-friendly company. Yes, it will take resources. The point I'm making is that people are claiming it's not profitable, when historically that just isn't the case. In fact, the return on the investment would likely benefit all players on all platforms, so I don't even get why people would be opposed to the idea. Then that's great!! No need to argue it beyond expressing your support of it to BW. In a perfect world, all games would release with Windows, Mac and Linux clients.. and I'd be happy cause I'd never have to run a MS operating system ever again. However, I doubt you will see it until they get more of the kinks worked out of the windows client, the last thing they need is doubling the work required to get rid of the current bugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daemian Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 (edited) Of course it's the case. Anyone who wants to game on a Mac knows going in that they'll need to do it via bootcamp. The game companies know this. Frankly, the vast majority of Mac users simply are not gamers. The vast majority of PC users aren't gamers either, and when your sample size is only 10% as large for Mac's, it's pretty easy to realize that the ROI just isn't there. So you're saying all games that have had and continue to maintain Mac clients do so at a loss? If the game companies know this, why do they keep doing it? And, by the way, I'd love to see your reference for the percentage of Mac owners that use their computers for playing games. Edited January 26, 2012 by daemian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daemian Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 (edited) Then that's great!! No need to argue it beyond expressing your support of it to BW. That is great, I'm just trying to dispel some of the arguments people are posting against it that really don't hold up under scrutiny. Edited January 26, 2012 by daemian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InnateOne Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 Do you support a Mac OS X client for SWTOR? This thread is for discussing support for an OS X client for Star Wars The Old Republic. Please keep comments related to that topic. This is not a Bootcamp thread. This is not a Mac Vs. PC thread. I run a mac, And currently I use Bootcamp to play. I would support a mac client it's just more efficient for me. However, if they don't come out with expansions at the same time (if they get to that point) for both platforms it's pretty meaningless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slteath Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 (edited) We're not talking about a lot of games, we're talking about TOR. We're talking about supporting an OS X client for the people who already own Macs. If the ongoing costs are less than the return on the investment, then it's beneficial to all players to have an OS X client. I know, hence I restated the thread topic at the end of my post. All I am saying is, I don't know the statistics of mac gamers. but there is a huge fixed cost to develop and maintain and little variable cost. so there has to be a required number of mac gamers out there to justify the development (actual number, not percentage) so bottom line is, I do not have enough information to support / not support BW to develop a Mac OS Edited January 26, 2012 by Slteath Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nytak Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 That is great, I'm just trying to dispel some of the arguments people are posting against it that really don't hold up under scrutiny. It seems to me they took the route of "Let's get this think working on one platform first" rather than setting grandios expectations early on, only to have to state later that "The MacOS client planned for release won't be ready on release", or worse yet, having to delay the whole release due to the additional overhead required for developing two clients. The other thing to consider is the engine they are using. All criticism aside, it is a different engine than they have used before, therefor you can almost guarantee that their ability to port it from one platform to another would be a much more daunting task than it would be if it were an engine they had more experience with at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonson Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 Not only would they have to devote development time to creating and testing a native mac client, they would also have to devote development time to test patches to that client. All in all, the net result would be the 5% of mac users complaining about it would be happy, and everyone else would get less game and longer times between content patches. So no, I don't support it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daemian Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 (edited) The Hero Engine does not support Mac OS X. OS X support is coming to Hero Engine. http://hewiki.heroengine.com/wiki/HeroEngine_Roadmap They're not re-writing an engine that they don't have that they paid for to another platform, just to then have to port their game to another platform, just to get a few users who could play the game already using existing options. PCGH: Did you rework or enhance this engine for SWTOR? Bioware: HeroEngine provides an excellent platform upon which to prototype our game. During the course of development we have modified HeroEngine as required to support the broad feature set of the game we have undertaken, and to scale to the level of usage we hope to achieve. http://www.pcgameshardware.com/aid,767634/Star-Wars-The-Old-Republic-Bioware-considering-Direct-X-11-in-the-future/News/ Blizzard is the exception to the rule here. Almost nobody else does. Bioware is also an exception to the rule. The majority of their PC games have Mac clients. TOR does not and has never hinted that they might support OSX. Muzyka: "We know there's a big Mac audience of BioWare fans … we know that's an important and large audience. And we want to serve that audience." "We've done a lot of Mac ports before of our games. We haven't announced any details yet for The Old Republic, but we know that's an important and large audience." Neither Doctor commented on a timetable on a Mac version, but… Zeschuk: "That's definitely one of the things we're looking at next. We want to get this launch under our belt and everything stabilized and happy, and then we'll look at other platforms, and that's obviously one of the first ones." http://www.gametrailers.com/side-mission/2012/01/02/star-wars-the-old-republic-is-coming-to-mac-potentially-%E2%80%98next%E2%80%99/ Edited January 26, 2012 by daemian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DTuloJr Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 Useful information seems to be missed... again... there is NO HeroEngine OS X native client, hence, NO OS X native client for SWTOR. Pure, plain, and simple. Now, a HeroEngine OS X client *IS* in the works. When that is released, then you can demand for a native OS X SWTOR client. Until then, you're barking up a brick wall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Gao_Gao Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 nope. get a real computer or use bootcamp. while bioware is a huge company, i'd rather have them spend time working on the game as it is instead of wasting time catering to "graphic artists". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lethality Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 yea, and I play all of them. I am trying to be as objective as possible. MAC OS is not good for gamers simply because there are not a lot of games that has MAC version, which end up you have to run bootcamp. So for a gamer, it wouldn't makes sense or him to..... MAC+bootcamp+WINdows = PC, when he can get the PC to begin with. anyway, it is not about which OS is better. and no doubt that a new MAC OS will attract more subscription, but how about the ongoing support of it?? will it be worth it?? we have to consider not just the initial cost of recoding it, but also the ongoing supporting cost. and when I said cost, I mean all costs, not just monetary But there IS the single biggest game ever, and the single biggest competitor to TOR: World of Warcraft. Relesaed and supported day and date with the Windows version. That alone is enough precedent to expect support. It's a mis-step, plain and simple, and one I'm positive they would remedy if starting the project today. Now they have the unenviable position of dual development cycles and loss of hype, buzz and marketing surrounding original launch. Gamers don't always buy Macs. But Mac owners do play games. Let that sink in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daemian Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 (edited) It seems to me they took the route of "Let's get this think working on one platform first" rather than setting grandios expectations early on, only to have to state later that "The MacOS client planned for release won't be ready on release", or worse yet, having to delay the whole release due to the additional overhead required for developing two clients. The other thing to consider is the engine they are using. All criticism aside, it is a different engine than they have used before, therefor you can almost guarantee that their ability to port it from one platform to another would be a much more daunting task than it would be if it were an engine they had more experience with at the time. Yeah, it probably won't be easy but I think they can figure it out. They're not new to releasing games for the Mac. I do enjoy the authority with which people claim it won't happen, when Bioware has already said it (likely) will. Edited January 26, 2012 by daemian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lethality Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 Useful information seems to be missed... again... there is NO HeroEngine OS X native client, hence, NO OS X native client for SWTOR. Pure, plain, and simple. Now, a HeroEngine OS X client *IS* in the works. When that is released, then you can demand for a native OS X SWTOR client. Until then, you're barking up a brick wall. Has absolutely zero to do with the ability to bring a native Mac client. License another third party OpenGL display engine. Code one from scratch. Etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyACT Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 No, it's a waste of development time that could be better spent elsewhere. This - they are struggling to get the game running on Windows. Wouldn't mind once we have a bit more content and the game is running better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daemian Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 Wouldn't mind once we have a bit more content and the game is running better. That's pretty much the way they've positioned it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terrorshard Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 Most likely it would be just like Warhammer's Mac version and be really really crappy and unplayable. So screw it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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