Supposed "Skill Based" 1-49 Bracket

[Kalaesk]

Funny. The Republic win rate on my server went from 10-20% to 80-90%. Looks like Imps aren't so tough when they don't have 3-4x as many 50s as us to carry them.

 

All that means is that the best Imperials are the actual PvPers that got to 50 to start gearing up?

[Lazorous]

I just wish more people shared those thoughts instead of saying things like "remove the PvP gear" or "make me a new bracket" or "create valor brackets." You should be trying to improve your playing and not just your handicap.

 

With the same level of skill, a better geared person will have a distinct advantage over the other. I'm not sure how you fail to see this since you're trying to pride yourself on your intellect and logic.

 

No matter how well a level 14 trains to play their class, they will ALWAYS be outmatched by a level 50 in full expertise gear, playing within similar skill. There's no way to train around that. The only advancement you can aim for is leveling up... but that's not really "training", that's just leveling... there's a difference.

 

The training won't actually start until they've hit 50, acquired all the same abilities you have at 50, and have equal chance at acquiring the same gear.

[KronikInsomniak]

ffs it is not 1-49 bracket if you are talking WZs.

[Dravinian]

com·pe·ti·tion

noun

1. the act of competing; rivalry for supremacy, a prize, etc.: The competition between the two teams was bitter.

2. a contest for some prize, honor, or advantage: Both girls entered the competition.

3. the rivalry offered by a competitor: The small merchant gets powerful competition from the chain stores.

4. a competitor or competitors: What is your competition offering?

5. Sociology . rivalry between two or more persons or groups for an object desired in common, usually resulting in a victor and a loser but not necessarily involving the destruction of the latter.

 

Seems to fit to me. *Shrugs*

 

There's no special formula or some special reason why people on one side would get no 50s on their team ever and the other side always does. It's all luck. Plus I loved queuing with my lowbie friends, we still destroyed enemy teams despite the fact that I was the only 50 and we were against other 50s.

 

You guys are acting like it was always a team of all 50s vs a team of all non 50s. I'm willing to bet that didn't happen nearly as often as people like to say it did.

 

Again, sorry to keep popping in and pointing out your errors, but statistically speaking, you are once again wrong.

 

If we accept that there is a faction imbalance, and I think Ilum over the last few days has shown a clear imbalance in favour of Imperial and you accept that both sides have an equal percentage of "hardcore" players that rushed to 50...the facts are quite simply.

 

1,000 Imp players 10-50, of which 30% are level 50. This will mean 300 players are level 50.

300 Rep players 10-50 of which 30% are level 50. This will mean that 90 are level 50.

 

Therefore statistically speaking you are far more likely to find an abundance of players from the Imperial side at level 50 and are therefore more likely to find them in the queue for Warzones.

 

This does not mean every time, or that it is impossible to find otherwise, it means that on average there will be more level 50s queueing for the Warzones on the Imperial side than on the Republic side.

[Krylaancelo]

Speaking of people QQ'ing and whinging about being entitled into their own little world, lets look at your post. What exactly are you doing? QQ'ing and Whining, yep.

 

If you say so.

 

If you really were as "elite" as you claimed, then you would take whatever the developers decided to do to THEIR game, and adapt to it. Instead, you create a whine post just like the people you're trying to attack.

 

I never claimed to be elite. In fact, I made several statements that I'm not on top.

 

If you think top end gear and expertise doesn't play any factor at all, you either have no clue how this game works, or you're just hiding your interest to jump at lowbies.

 

I said no such thing. In fact, I know it does. I think it should. I think it should be unfair.

 

If all levels can have the opportunity to stack as much expertise and stim packs as a lvl 50 can, then you may have a point. But considering they can't, your rant is pointless. Sure they can level, but it's obvious that until they reach 50, they will always be at a disadvantage to what they can get.

 

That is the point. Yes. And they should have to deal with it, or fix it by leveling and gearing. I think no one should get a "by" because they're low level. You chose to PvP, you should have to deal with everything PvP is which, by its very nature, is unfairness.

 

In order to demonstrate true skill, you have to take out the variable of gear, or at least have them relatively comparable. By completely trumping someone's gear and character abilities, you have a distinct advantage.

 

Welcome to MMOs. Have you played any before? I never said that "true skill" was to be demonstrated. I said level up, gear up, skill up, or get destroyed. They are independent variables in the advantage equation but they the end product relies on all of them.

 

The distinct advantage is obvious and should be there. That's my point.

 

If you had a gun, and all I had was a knife, tell me how your skill is better?

 

It isn't. I came better prepared, I put down more money, I should win. You don't get a special "knives only fight" bracket in a street fight. Hell, you can still win. Just sneak up behind me, stab me, you win.

 

If you still don't believe gear and expertise makes a difference, then you're just being blind to an obvious flaw in the system. Take this as an example. A non-50 BH standing around just spamming tracer missiles will get wrecked by my 39 Vanguard. Using the exact same strategy against a 50 fully geared BH spamming tracer missiles and I could die within 3-4 hits, if that. That isn't an example of skill, but of superior gear that I cannot acquire for another 11 levels.

 

And if you're so pro, what exactly are you whining about anyway? The longer queue times? Is that it? Really?

 

I certainly do believe gear makes a difference. I don't think you read most of this thread. I'm not so pro. Never claimed to be.

[caultonpos]

This thread illustrates that some people will always whine whatever the situaion

[Zaskaszh]

Why would you trade wins? Hopefully you catch a ban for it.

 

Because he's a "True PvPer".

[Jestunhi]

I'm fine with ignoring level if they bracket on expertise instead.

 

After all, that's the real difference.

 

Either way, it's fine now. My 50 isn't stuck with lvl 10's on his team and my lvl 20 isn't fighting people with hundreds of expertise and the best gear.

[Krylaancelo]

With the same level of skill, a better geared person will have a distinct advantage over the other. I'm not sure how you fail to see this since you're trying to pride yourself on your intellect and logic.

 

No matter how well a level 14 trains to play their class, they will ALWAYS be outmatched by a level 50 in full expertise gear, playing within similar skill. There's no way to train around that. The only advancement you can aim for is leveling up... but that's not really "training", that's just leveling... there's a difference.

 

The training won't actually start until they've hit 50, acquired all the same abilities you have at 50, and have equal chance at acquiring the same gear.

 

So spend your time leveling? I never claimed that you would have an equal footing as a lowbie. In fact, I have said the opposite. And I think that's how it should be. You're a lowbie, you should get beaten almost every time. You have the ability to level, there are plenty of other things to do besides PvP. Have at it.

 

If you want to compete with the 50s, get to 50, gear up, and smash their faces in.

 

How am I priding myself at all?

Edited January 19, 2012 by Krylaancelo

[Krylaancelo]

I'm fine with ignoring level if they bracket on expertise instead.

 

After all, that's the real difference.

 

Either way, it's fine now. My 50 isn't stuck with lvl 10's on his team and my lvl 20 isn't fighting people with hundreds of expertise and the best gear.

 

That's your opinion and you have a right to it.

 

I would prefer no brackets of any kind in any kind of PvP. Fight everyone, most leveled, most geared, most organized, most skilled or the team with the bigger advantage between the four wins.

[Dravinian]

Much as I think you have made errors Kryl I understand your point.

 

I just disagree, a poster earlier pointed out that in sport this does not happen, professional footballers play in the premier league in England and pub teams play in the Sunday Wilkinson league, they never play against each other.

 

This goes for every other sort of "competition" you can think of, almost all of them having ranking systems and leagues and tiers and brackets.

 

Why should MMORPGs be any different?

 

Why shouldn't the game separate those that have the better sponsors and the better tennis rackets and the better coaches and training facilities and only allow those in that can prove that they can compete, or can prove they are good enough to gain those things.

 

It is no different here and despite talking a lot and turning this into a thread with many pages you have not given one single solid answer as to why this sort of competition should be treated differently.

[Krylaancelo]

Again, sorry to keep popping in and pointing out your errors, but statistically speaking, you are once again wrong.

 

If we accept that there is a faction imbalance, and I think Ilum over the last few days has shown a clear imbalance in favour of Imperial and you accept that both sides have an equal percentage of "hardcore" players that rushed to 50...the facts are quite simply.

 

1,000 Imp players 10-50, of which 30% are level 50. This will mean 300 players are level 50.

300 Rep players 10-50 of which 30% are level 50. This will mean that 90 are level 50.

 

Therefore statistically speaking you are far more likely to find an abundance of players from the Imperial side at level 50 and are therefore more likely to find them in the queue for Warzones.

 

This does not mean every time, or that it is impossible to find otherwise, it means that on average there will be more level 50s queueing for the Warzones on the Imperial side than on the Republic side.

 

I think I can use the phrase that every one on Republic uses when Imperials complain about PvP queues: "You knew when you rolled what you were getting into rolling for the side with less people."

 

Apologies for the cliche.

 

Either way, again, I'm in full support of unfairness in PvP. That's the point of PvP in my mind, unfairness. You use every advantage you can against your enemy to defeat them as completely as possible. You don't fight fair fights in love or war. If you do, you're a fool.

[pawestman]

This has to be the most idiotic post I've read today. Explain to me WHY a level 11 should EVER be matched up against a fully battlemaster geared 50. Both 50's and low levels disliked being matched together. It's not competitive, and it is not fun.

 

You can be a 1000x Rank 1 Gladiator and you won't beat a Battlemaster as a level 11.

[Krylaancelo]

Much as I think you have made errors Kryl I understand your point.

 

I just disagree, a poster earlier pointed out that in sport this does not happen, professional footballers play in the premier league in England and pub teams play in the Sunday Wilkinson league, they never play against each other.

 

This goes for every other sort of "competition" you can think of, almost all of them having ranking systems and leagues and tiers and brackets.

 

Why should MMORPGs be any different?

 

Why shouldn't the game separate those that have the better sponsors and the better tennis rackets and the better coaches and training facilities and only allow those in that can prove that they can compete, or can prove they are good enough to gain those things.

 

It is no different here and despite talking a lot and turning this into a thread with many pages you have not given one single solid answer as to why this sort of competition should be treated differently.

 

Because this game is supposed to emulate war, not sports.

 

You don't throw away your most powerful weapons because your opponents don't have them or because it's "unfair." If you decide to wage full scale war, you throw everything you have at them. I mean hell, the only reason nuclear weapons haven't been used in war since WW2 is because of how bad they are for the environment and for innocents. If you could single out the enemy to be nuked with no collateral damage, I guarantee you they would be used.

 

That's how I envision war zones. Everyone that queued up is an enemy combatant, they are all choosing to oppose you. Launch the nukes, hold nothing back. If they can't nuke you back, too bad for them.

 

I understand you disagree with me, I think many people do. And that is also ok.

[Ruio]

Your logic is flawed.

Let's feed cats crabgrass.

Edited January 19, 2012 by Ruio

[Krylaancelo]

This has to be the most idiotic post I've read today. Explain to me WHY a level 11 should EVER be matched up against a fully battlemaster geared 50. Both 50's and low levels disliked being matched together. It's not competitive, and it is not fun.

 

You can be a 1000x Rank 1 Gladiator and you won't beat a Battlemaster as a level 11.

 

Why not? Why should someone get a "by" because they are weak?

[Krylaancelo]

Your logic is flawed.

Let's feed cats crabgrass.

 

Your complete rebuttal has really awed me. I am speechless.

 

I do love cats though.

[ActionAce]

Why didnt you just title this thread: Bioware Y U No let me farm Lowbies?!?!?

 

becasue that is really what this is about

[Bovinity]

They're not getting a bye, they're facing people on their own level.

[pawestman]

Why not? Why should someone get a "by" because they are weak?

 

How is it their fault they are weak? Give every class every ability at level 11, and I'll agree with you.

[Krylaancelo]

Why didnt you just title this thread: Bioware Y U No let me farm Lowbies?!?!?

 

becasue that is really what this is about

 

If you say so. This has already been addressed several times. Feel free to read the thread.

[Krylaancelo]

How is it their fault they are weak? Give every class every ability at level 11, and I'll agree with you.

 

Because they didn't put time in to level? Because they didn't put time into gearing?

 

Are you telling me that someone is physically incapable of leveling past 11? That the game does not allow it? That you can't get to level 50 in a very reasonable amount of time? That people with very full schedules will never ever level to 50? Really?

[teyngodown]

OOh and to all the 50s crying they did not power level to 50.. i have been playing since day 1 of early start on the 13th of dec. My main is 47, and i focused a lot of hours on him when not working.

 

then you sir have failed questing.... 2 weeks at 2-3 hours a day and i've been 50 for a week and a half now. I love the 10-49 warzones now! Because me and my friends who made premades with the characters we LIKED to play now just make FOTM classes make lvl 30 premades and faceroll all the babies who cried about a 50 nerf lol

[Krylaancelo]

They're not getting a bye, they're facing people on their own level.

 

No they aren't. They're facing 20s, 30s, 40s. They're just getting to bypass the "really strong guys" because it's "just too hard."

 

Well no crap, it should be hard.

 

I can see that you guys don't agree with me and that is really ok. A lot of people disagree and we may just have to agree to disagree.

 

I do appreciate those of you that didn't "infer" that I'm crying about not being able to gank lowbies. Cuz that's never what this was about. Simply expressing a different mindset.

 

Thank you for the fun argument. I'm leaving work now and will be going home to play.

[Thaderin]

10-49 is freakin awesome, i was shocked i last more than 5 seconds against 3 players..

 

i cried a little.. then proceeded to hug my screen.

 

I had the exact same reaction