Supposed "Skill Based" 1-49 Bracket

[IronFirewind]

Gear doesn't really affect you much til level 50. If you're totally geared at level 49 you might have 100 endurance/damage-stat more than a fresh level 10.

 

A level 49 is still going to have an obvious advantage over a level 10, but considering a level geared 50 does about 50% more damage than a level 49, fighting against level 49's doesn't seem so bad.

 

Obviously in general going into a warzone at level 10 is a bad idea, but a level 25 against a level 40 is a relatively even fight. A level 30 against a level 50 isn't even close.

 

1) Completely wrong. A Lv10 will have 100+ in their primary stat while a Lv30 will have about 500. Also Bolster does NOT take into account gear. The Lv40 will also have far, far better stats when you take into account gear itemisation and secondary stats on gear.

 

2) Do you have the combat logs to back up the claim?

 

3) It's why Bioware have opened the floodgates really. People will be moaning about Lv49's in Warzones so they will add a 40 tier. Then a 30 tier, then 20...

[Krylaancelo]

1.) Grinding to level 50 takes no skill, and is - imo - dumb and not really intended. Why else would you have such a nice story?

2.) 50s bracket will fill up as soon as the 'normal' people get to 50. Make a twink, do raids, take a break, whatever. You belong to a minority by being 50 and even if not, nobody has to do it the same way as you.

3.) PvP 10-49 is a lot more balanced than fighting against 50s. Just compare the HP of an equipped 50 with that of a 30 (or any other level). Bolster-system only works as intended if there´s no ridiculous increase in equip.

4.) Your post has no points.

 

1. Who said to skip all quests and grind? You can't complete your class quests until 50 (or at least high 40s) anyway, so yes, you have to get to 50 to fully enjoy the story.

 

2. I suppose, but I still don't see the point of covering for weakness because you refuse to take it upon yourself to get stronger.

 

3. Probably is but why should things be balanced for someone is is clearly weaker? Why should a level 10 be able to fight a level 20, 30, or 40 on equal ground? S/he shouldn't in my opinion. You're weaker.

 

4. Completely disagree, you're just choosing not to see them and instead infer a bunch of things I didn't say.

[IronFirewind]

You are being ridiculous. Have you played in the lower bracket? I have a lot, 49s do not have some sort of massive advantage.

 

So you have nothing to counter my argument other than "I play in the lower bracket a lot"?

 

All I needed to know thanks ^_^

[Krylaancelo]

Please, this entire thread is a joke.

 

As a level 50 with expertise gear, I can say that while it's quite fun to smash some level 12 for absurd amounts of damage while they're missing most of their ability toolkit to do anything about it, I'm not even going to sit here and pretend it's fair or balanced in any way.

 

1-49 the bolster system actually works fairly well. There's very few people sporting expertise gear since there's really no intuitive way to get it, and the disparity in availability of abilities isn't that bad.

 

Your points hold no water. Sorry.

 

I never said it was fair.

 

In fact my ENTIRE POINT was that it isn't and that's how it should be! It SHOULD NOT be fair!

 

He's level 12, you're level 50. He has crap gear, you have good gear. You should completely 100% annihilate him. That's how PvP should be. Losing at PvP should be a motivator to level up, gear up, and better yourself. Not reason to start a crying fest about how overpowered 50s are, how expertise is overpowered, etc. Not a reason to blame X, Y, or Z. Blame yourself, work on it.

[VinnieDaMac]

Sounds like someone's mad that they can't steamroll lowbies anymore (

[Aggathor]

Your post is salted with the tears of a 50 who misses grinding lowbies.

 

10-49 is much more competive and enjoyable

 

10-49 is freakin awesome, i was shocked i last more than 5 seconds against 3 players..

 

i cried a little.. then proceeded to hug my screen.

[savionen]

1) Completely wrong. A Lv10 will have 100+ in their primary stat while a Lv30 will have about 500. Also Bolster does NOT take into account gear. The Lv40 will also have far, far better stats when you take into account gear itemisation and secondary stats on gear.

 

2) Do you have the combat logs to back up the claim?

 

3) It's why Bioware have opened the floodgates really. People will be moaning about Lv49's in Warzones so they will add a 40 tier. Then a 30 tier, then 20...

 

1) Lolwut? My lowbie smuggler have something like 950 cunning and 1050 endurance. You know what my geared level 48 has? 1000 willpower and 1100 endurance!

 

2) Of course not. And 50% may not be completely accurate. All I know is the most a level 49 operative has hidden strike'd me for is 4200, and I've been hit by level 50 operatives for 6500. Mercenary goes from 3000 to 4500, etc. My level 48 Shadow Shadow-Strike crits for 2600~ on a level 50 Shadow, they turn around and Shadow-Strike me for 3700.

 

3) Maybe. Except you can't twink at level 49. You'll eventually hit level 50. There's not much expertise gear available at 49, I'm not sure if you can even get the top-end Cybertech or Biochem stuff since you need items from level 50 instances.

[Dravinian]

Yup, because it's a proven fact that all elite ninjas rolled on the Republic side. Republic is just inherently better. One faction is NOT better than the other by default. That is pure stupidity.

 

I'm glad you're winning, that shows you're doing something better, using some advantage against the Imperials. Whether or not that advantage is: Organization, Gear, Skill, etc. I don't know. I don't really care. This game and every other game like it are about capitalizing on that advantage.

 

Making special level brackets just encourages people to be okay with mediocrity and not seek to improve when it is well within their power to do so.

 

Your post is contradictory.

 

Read it again, see if you can find it.

 

I give you a hint, it involves the 2nd and the 3rd paragraph.

[Krylaancelo]

Sounds like someone's mad that they can't steamroll lowbies anymore (

 

Your post is original. Really is.

[Xienive]

I never said it was fair.

 

In fact my ENTIRE POINT was that it isn't and that's how it should be! It SHOULD NOT be fair!

 

He's level 12, you're level 50. He has crap gear, you have good gear. You should completely 100% annihilate him. That's how PvP should be. Losing at PvP should be a motivator to level up, gear up, and better yourself. Not reason to start a crying fest about how overpowered 50s are, how expertise is overpowered, etc. Not a reason to blame X, Y, or Z. Blame yourself, work on it.

 

Why would you really want to do that tho? I would much wrather fight an equal skilled player than to roll somebody.

[Klerke]

I cant wait till these "lowbies" queue into the 50 bracket then cry about other 50's having farmed more champion bags/rank.

 

Guess what? A fresh lvl 50 dies just about as quick as a lvl 10-49.

 

 

Your tears are coming, someone warn Thialand.

 

this is like in almost every other game, get max bracket pvp and be outgeared compared to the "old" players. so its expected and acceptable.

 

playing against max level full geared for entire lvling experience is done in no other game for the simple reason that its not enjoyable

[Dravinian]

1) Completely wrong. A Lv10 will have 100+ in their primary stat while a Lv30 will have about 500. Also Bolster does NOT take into account gear. The Lv40 will also have far, far better stats when you take into account gear itemisation and secondary stats on gear.

 

2) Do you have the combat logs to back up the claim?

 

3) It's why Bioware have opened the floodgates really. People will be moaning about Lv49's in Warzones so they will add a 40 tier. Then a 30 tier, then 20...

 

No you are wrong. This is not mathematically correct, but it is an example.

 

a level 10 will receive a 600% increase in base stats.

 

A level 40 will receive a 20% increase in base stats.

 

A 600% increase on 100 is 600

A 20% increase in 500 is 600

 

This a level 10 and a level 49 have very similar stats.

 

The only difference is abilities and skills and things like crit rate born from them.

 

Yes the 49 has an advantage, but it is a slight on and when they are involved in a fight, even with a level 12, they hurt from that fight.

[Krylaancelo]

Your post is contradictory.

 

Read it again, see if you can find it.

 

I give you a hint, it involves the 2nd and the 3rd paragraph.

 

Reading comprehension is hard. I know. It's okay. Keep working at it though.

 

Those don't contradict each other at all. If you can actually explain how they do, feel free to do so instead of making a vague reference that tries to imply intellectual superiority.

 

I said he has an advantage, I'm glad that is the case. The game is about capitalizing on that advantage. I then said that making special level brackets encourages people to not try to get those advantages even though it is within their power to do so. They can level to 50, they can gear out, they can group with friends, they can learn more about their class and other class mechanics and become better players.

 

How was that contradictory? I bet you don't respond because you don't have an answer.

[BDutch]

-Can you level to 50?

-Can you gear yourself up?

 

I think the question is why would I want to do these things periodically (there will be expansions and new gear inflation) if I can have fun in PvP and do the rest of the things on your list.

 

"Do you want to be moved into the srsbsns queue?" Not really.

"But what about this cool new gear you can get?" Don't need it.

"What's stopping you?" Having fun.

"That isn't what an MMO is about!" Yet here I am having PvP fun in an MMO and not focusing on progression in any way.

[savionen]

No you are wrong. This is not mathematically correct, but it is an example.

 

a level 10 will receive a 600% increase in base stats.

 

A level 40 will receive a 20% increase in base stats.

 

A 600% increase on 100 is 600

A 20% increase in 500 is 600

 

This a level 10 and a level 49 have very similar stats.

 

The only difference is abilities and skills and things like crit rate born from them.

 

Yes the 49 has an advantage, but it is a slight on and when they are involved in a fight, even with a level 12, they hurt from that fight.

 

Lowbies also get massive increases on some other stats. I was screwing around on a low-level Vanguard for awhile and at level 15 I had 55% physical damage reduction. I saw a decked-out level 50 Vanguard and he had something like 51%.

 

On my shadow I actually had more armor at level 25 than 48, because I'm not sporting super-high-end armor yet, and Bolster too care of it at 25.

Edited January 19, 2012 by savionen

[Zangi]

Bzzzzt Wrong.

 

A Lv49 has:

 

1) Access to all of their abilities at max level. A Lv10 only has what they entered the Fleet with.

 

2) Access to their full spec -1 point. A Lv10 doesn't even have a spec given that it's one 1 point.

 

3) Better gear than your Fresh Lv10.

 

4) Assuming the Lv10 is new to the game, the Lv49 will have much more experience in the game and how to win the Warzones.

 

5) Again assuming that the Lv10 is new, the Lv49 will have had more time to make friends to form a premade group.

 

6) A Lv49 isn't held back by dodgy Bolster scaling that has strange effects on secondary stats.

 

7) The option to be a 400 Biochem and the option to use the high level Biochem stuff, and will have built up more PvP consumables

So... are we trying to say.... "Since a level 49 is just as bad... why not keep warzones 10-50?"

 

Seriously, I can make essentially the same argument you did for a Lv20 vs Lv10... Lv30 vs Lv20 and so on...

 

A Lvl 50 has:

1) Access to all of their abilities at max level. A Lv10 only has what they entered the Fleet with.

2) Access to their full spec a Lv10 doesn't even have a spec given that it's one 1 point.

3) Access to a full set of Expertise gear, while lower levels have at best, an expertise weapon of varying efficiency.

4) Assuming the Lv10 is new to the game, the Lv50 will have much more experience in the game and how to win the Warzones.

5) Again assuming that the Lv10 is new, the Lv50 will have had more time to make friends to form a premade group.

6) A Lv50 isn't held back by dodgy Bolster scaling that has strange effects on secondary stats. AKA: Access to Gear that brings you far above the bolster values given to Lv10-49.

7) The option to be a 400 Biochem and the option to use the high level Biochem stuff, and will have built up more PvP consumables.

 

I'll just highlight the 2 more important reasons why.

[Dravinian]

Reading comprehension is hard. I know. It's okay. Keep working at it though.

 

Those don't contradict each other at all. If you can actually explain how they do, feel free to do so instead of making a vague reference that tries to imply intellectual superiority.

 

I said he has an advantage, I'm glad that is the case. The game is about capitalizing on that advantage. I then said that making special level brackets encourages people to not try to get those advantages even though it is within their power to do so. They can level to 50, they can gear out, they can group with friends, they can learn more about their class and other class mechanics and become better players.

 

How was that contradictory? I bet you don't respond because you don't have an answer.

 

So you can't see it?

 

Ok let me make it plain.....

 

Saying...."Whether or not that advantage is: Organization, Gear, Skill, etc. I don't know."

 

and then

 

Saying..."encourages people to be okay with mediocrity and not seek to improve"

 

Is contradictory.

 

If they are winning because of organisation, gear or skill, surely their opponent would have to improve to overcome that?

 

So it contradicts itself.

 

Sorry I had to point that out to you.

[Bovinity]

He's level 12, you're level 50. He has crap gear, you have good gear. You should completely 100% annihilate him. That's how PvP should be. Losing at PvP should be a motivator to level up, gear up, and better yourself. Not reason to start a crying fest about how overpowered 50s are, how expertise is overpowered, etc. Not a reason to blame X, Y, or Z. Blame yourself, work on it.

 

Except that's stupid. That's anathema to every single competitive system known. You don't tell every newcomer to Boxing, Chess, Baseball, whatever that not only can the top pros come and beat them, they're FORCED to play against those top pros if they want to play at all.

 

There's a reason why every competitive system around has ratings, brackets, tiers, etc. It's because competition doesn't mean just smashing people that are hugely inexperienced, weaker, or whatever. It's about competiting against equals.

[Krylaancelo]

Why would you really want to do that tho? I would much wrather fight an equal skilled player than to roll somebody.

 

Why? If everyone was equal skilled why even bother? You're not better than anyone. The entire point of competitive gaming is to be better than someone. You seek advantages to be able to beat people. That's the point. Tactical advantages, gear advantages, class advantages, level advantages, it's all part of the game. If it weren't, it wouldn't be in there in the first place.

 

Someone who beats you because of gear beat you because they spent time farming gear. Someone who beats you because of level beat you because they spent time leveling. Someone who beats you because of skill beat you because they react faster, have better class knowledge, and spent more time learning the game or practicing than you.

 

Etc., etc., etc.

[Edex]

Since expertise is such a powerful stat and only available to 50s brackets were inevitable. Now i know every 50 is up in arms crying over lost farms and actually having to work for their gear, just remember this. If you had a tough time dealing with a 50 in expertise.. a lowbie had no chance. You are not skilled if crying about this and never were. Sad truth is sad but sometimes rewards must be earned.

[Krylaancelo]

So you can't see it?

 

Ok let me make it plain.....

 

Saying...."Whether or not that advantage is: Organization, Gear, Skill, etc. I don't know."

 

and then

 

Saying..."encourages people to be okay with mediocrity and not seek to improve"

 

Is contradictory.

 

If they are winning because of organisation, gear or skill, surely their opponent would have to improve to overcome that?

 

So it contradicts itself.

 

Sorry I had to point that out to you.

 

Uh, no it doesn't. Because the first sentence was regarding the person I quoted who was talking about 50s pvp and rolling Imperials as Republic. The second sentence was about creating a special bracket for lowbies who don't seek to level, gear, etc. to be competitive.

 

So again, how was that contradictory? If my wording was unclear, then my mistake. If you misread it, your mistake. Either way, not contradictory.

 

Sorry I had to point that out to you.

[savionen]

Why? If everyone was equal skilled why even bother? You're not better than anyone. The entire point of competitive gaming is to be better than someone. You seek advantages to be able to beat people. That's the point. Tactical advantages, gear advantages, class advantages, level advantages, it's all part of the game. If it weren't, it wouldn't be in there in the first place.

 

Someone who beats you because of gear beat you because they spent time farming gear. Someone who beats you because of level beat you because they spent time leveling. Someone who beats you because of skill beat you because they react faster, have better class knowledge, and spent more time learning the game or practicing than you.

 

Etc., etc., etc.

 

But isn't destroying poor opponents boring after awhile? Competition is not only showing you're better, but actually having a challenge.

[maradigamer]

I'm sorry for those on light pop servers or off hours who can't get into pvp matches at 50 as quickly as they're used to. But the OP's post is just not logical. It's a game, and people won't play it if it's not fun.

 

It wasn't fun getting rolled by 50 premades and that especially wasn't fun for Republic, who apparently had fewer level capped premades of their own to fight back with. This change was good.

[Halstadt]

But isn't destroying poor opponents boring after awhile? Competition is not only showing you're better, but actually having a challenge.

 

Less boring than no games for 10 hours? uh..... no.

[Krylaancelo]

Since expertise is such a powerful stat and only available to 50s brackets were inevitable. Now i know every 50 is up in arms crying over lost farms and actually having to work for their gear, just remember this. If you had a tough time dealing with a 50 in expertise.. a lowbie had no chance. You are not skilled if crying about this and never were. Sad truth is sad but sometimes rewards must be earned.

 

So there's no expertise on the 40 PvP gear? Weird, I thought there was.

 

Once again, this has absolutely nothing to do with winning or losing or getting beat in PvP at 50. If it were, I would be doing what I'm saying the 10-49s should do which is: Check gear, check consumables, check grouping, check class, check skill, make sure I'm maxing them out before crying on the forums.

 

Then, and only then, would I put up a constructive post asking for adjustments or help on how to do better in PvP.

 

Rewards are earned and I have earned mine. I'm just asking those that love their 10-49 bracket to earn theirs instead of asking for special treatment because they don't feel like putting in the time to do so. See what I'm saying?

Edited January 19, 2012 by Krylaancelo