Supposed "Skill Based" 1-49 Bracket

[Deathstroke]

No, the problem is that we can't get into games: period. Some of my favorite matches have been pugging against my own guild's premade. Now, to just get a game, we're probably gonna just have to run 4 groups and trade wins.

 

That's because as previously noted a long...long time ago Empire is overpopulated. Just like a choice was made to choose one side or another so is this.

 

Yea it sucks. But i can say on my server lvl 50 republics went from a 1-15 win loss ratio prior to exclusive bracket to ...I haven't lost a game yet..and I am on my 6th match. Funny how statistics work. Empire has a bigger population soo a larger pool of good and mediocre players. No complaints yet except for getting whopped by 10 Imps on Illum at once.

 

TL/DR: Stop complaining over every little change adapt and enjoy. It's a game know one is forcing you to play.

[Jestunhi]

1. Brackets exist for the same reason that there's heavyweight boxers and middleweights. The same reason there are premier league football teams and local pub teams.

 

2. my character creation screen does not tell me the account, character, or currently logged on populations of either side. I can guess that Empire is more popular simply because I see people whine about it, but why would I take their word especially when the majority don't even state what server they are on and just treat it as fact that every server has 1,000 republic players and 5,000 Imperials?

 

3. This game is set in a time of peace. Not war.

[pawestman]

Because they didn't put time in to level? Because they didn't put time into gearing?

 

Are you telling me that someone is physically incapable of leveling past 11? That the game does not allow it? That you can't get to level 50 in a very reasonable amount of time? That people with very full schedules will never ever level to 50? Really?

 

I'm telling you that a level 11 is incapable of beating a level 50, so why would you match them together as a developer?

 

Are you telling me that a level 50 is incapable of beating a level 50? I don't understand your logic. You sound like someone that wants the easy way out rather than dealing with actual competition. As a 50, it wasn't fun playing who has more 50's in warzones. Now that we can play on an equal playing field, it's more competitive and enjoyable.

[AGoldCrayon]

Taking 50s out of your bracket doesn't make it anymore skill based than it was before. It just allows you to be lazy in leveling and gearing whereas at 50 it is a lot less forgiving.

 

Congratulations on getting the playing field catered to mediocrity. I applaud you.

 

We should make it so no one higher than 49 can play warzones in my bracket cuz those high levels are so unfair to play with. It's their own fault for leveling so much. They should be ashamed and ridiculed for using their advantage against us! Get rid of them and then we can play skill-based games!!!

 

We should also make it so no one taller than 6' can play basketball in my bracket cuz those tall guys are so unfair to play with. It's their own fault for growing so much. They should be ashamed and ridiculed for using their advantage against us! Get rid of them and then we can play skill-based games!!!

 

The difference being, of course, that you can level and gear yourself whereas a short person can't make himself grow. But man, those unfair advantages are so unfair. Everyone should be equal at everything!!! Especially when the only difference in the equality is being lazy and not putting in the time to be good. I should be able to be awesome without effort! If someone works harder and puts more time in than me, I deserve to be their equal still!

 

Let's remove bolster entirely and see how "skill based" your game is. LOL!

 

In before random posts of "QQ more," "bad 50 can't beat up on level 10's," etc.

 

Sorry but there's no excuse for being a wimp and then being mad and outraged because you're a wimp without doing anything to better yourself. Stop blaming the game, the developers, the level 50s, expertise gear, and/or the enemy players. Maybe look within and try to improve instead. The world may be a better place if people did this more often instead of crying and whining and being entitled to their own little world.

 

Also if you were "so skilled," you would be able to beat a 50 anyway. Cuz you're elite, right?

 

You can't honestly answer "No" to any of these questions:

-Can you level to 50?

-Can you gear yourself up?

-Can you use consumables?

-Can you make a "premade" group with friends?

-Can you work on being a better player skill-wise?

 

If you can't answer No to any of those, why is the game at fault? Why aren't you at fault?

 

I'm one of the ones that rushed to 50. Been playing the game for three weeks now, hit level 50 after 12 days. I also support the move BioWare made in seperating the 10-49's from the 50's. Your analogy is a flawed one.

 

Expertise, on those in cent/champ/battlemaster gear, gave an advantage that the bolster system was not able to overcome. Not everyone has the time, or even the desire, to level as fast as me, or you, or anyone else that rushed to 50. And they shouldn't be punished for it.

 

You're being a brat, throwing a tantrum because either you can't beat up on people that don't have a chance against you anymore, or because your queue times for warzones got longer. Have some patience kiddo, people will hit 50 eventually, and warzone times will normalize. In response to your loaded questions, here is one for you.

 

-Do you pay more per month than everyone else?

 

If you answered 'no', then I don't see why the game should cater to you.

[Bovinity]

If you say so. This has already been addressed several times. Feel free to read the thread.

 

Yeah, you say it's not about that, but your credibility on that issue is pretty much the same as a thief saying he's not a thief.

 

You want to kill low level people. Worse than that, you want those low level people to be FORCED to fight you if they want to enjoy Warzones at all. You want the system set up so that they can't choose to play in a bracket with people of similar power levels, they MUST play against the level 50's.

 

Your analogies and defenses fall flat in the face of the fact that it's just bad for the players and the game as whole to herd lowbies into an area where level 50's just farm them.

 

And you can say that you don't want to "farm lowbies" until you're blue in the face, but that's exactly what you're arguing for. I might as well say that I don't want pigs dead, but I want to eat ham.

Edited January 19, 2012 by Bovinity

[Barrechor]

I cant wait till these "lowbies" queue into the 50 bracket then cry about other 50's having farmed more champion bags/rank.

 

Guess what? A fresh lvl 50 dies just about as quick as a lvl 10-49.

 

 

Your tears are coming, someone warn Thialand.

 

I was thinking this as I was reading everything. There will definitely be more tears once some of these clowns reach 50.

 

"I'm level 50 with no Expertise gear!!! Level 50s with Expertise gear should be placed into their own bracket because they have an advantage over level 50s without it......."

 

Whining is just in the nature of the beast.

[Xbig]

 

And you can say that you don't want to "farm lowbies" until you're blue in the face, but that's exactly what you're arguing for. I might as well say that I don't want pigs dead, but I want to eat ham.

 

Considering your username, I wonder why you didn't go with a cow analogy. Also, I think brackets and cats are cool.

[teyngodown]

I'm telling you that a level 11 is incapable of beating a level 50, so why would you match them together as a developer?

 

Are you telling me that a level 50 is incapable of beating a level 50? I don't understand your logic. You sound like someone that wants the easy way out rather than dealing with actual competition. As a 50, it wasn't fun playing who has more 50's in warzones. Now that we can play on an equal playing field, it's more competitive and enjoyable.

 

The reason that lvl 11 is incapable of killing the lvl 50 has nothing to do with gear and it has everything to do with skill. A NEW lvl 11 that has no other characters SHOULDN'T be able to kill a lvl 50 period. That lvl 50 has put in the time and effort to be level 50 and the lvl 11 hasn't. All the people crying that they were getting rolled on by 50 premades are lazy period.

 

Stop crying about what you don't have and other people do when you are more then capable of getting it yourself. I absolutely agree with the OP. I'm more than happy with killing lvl 50's as a lvl 50 its finally a challenge, and i play pvp for the CHALLENGE.

 

But i do agree that the 1-49 warzones are more even now but people like me and my guildies can still make premades and still tear a warzones apart. It had nothing to do with being 50 and had everything to do with PUG's lack of communication and coordination simple.

[Bovinity]

Funny, because all I see are the "We wanna farm lowbies" crowd doing the whining here. Everyone else is quite happy, including 50's like myself that actually like playing on an even playing field.

[Raice]

I hate posts like this. It really makes me realize how stupid some people are.... and I generally don't like to have negative opinions of people.

 

The people who are 50's now, and who have their Battlemaster Gear, and have all their Valor capped, and all the Expertise they will ever need.... DIDN'T HAVE TO FIGHT MAXED OUT PLAYERS TO GET IT! They were all leveling together. And for the most part, the PvP game for them, is pretty much how it is now that 1-49 don't have to deal with 50's and all their Gear BS. It was pretty balanced (for the most part) and fun. They win some, they lose some. It was never a case where they walked into a situation and thought, "Oh great - I might as well give up now since there is really no way for me to win, even with better tactics and not missing a beat." They never had to experience that thought - the notion of pure futility.

 

I have. For me, though... it wasn't that 1 player could take on half of the other team. The problem was that one team would be 8 players level range 13-38 and the other team was 6 players were Geared 50's with 2 level 20's on the side. This is why people would just leave the WZ, and other players would be brought into a battle that was already half over with, and completely impossible to win. It's insidious. It isn't fun. It's only fun if you have the capacity to win. And in such situations - that circumstance was non-existent.

 

Now, I've been here since the second day of EA. I'm still leveling my first character. And it's not because I suck - I just simply have a life outside of the game, and I didn't feel the need to rush through anything. I still don't. But you could not compare what the original players had to face to get their gear, against what all subsequent generations will have had to face to get theirs. It's NOT a condition that I think was foreseeably idealistic.

 

This is why the Patch happened, and it was needed. Oh, but don't you worry. Once a new player hits 50 - they'll feel the pain all the same. My brother and I were just talking about it last night. As soon as we hit 50 (we're 49 now), it will be like the patch never existed for us. Because the balance of PvP had nothing to do with your character level - it was the gear and the Expertise that messed it up. So we will still be getting rolled by players that we can realistically do nothing to stop. The difference is, when we decide to roll new toons... we won't have to put up with it for 49 levels like we did the first time around.

[Lazorous]

If you say so.

 

I say so because your post delivers the same whiney tune as any other whine post. Yet you criticize the whiners. If you just admit you're ranting and not attack the "whiners", then you wouldn't be labeled a hypocrite.

 

 

I never claimed to be elite. In fact, I made several statements that I'm not on top.

 

Then you're oblivious to your own writings. Your demeanor has been telling others how they should play. How they should train and better themselves and not blame their failures on the game. That is an elitist persona, no matter how you spin it.

 

I said no such thing. In fact, I know it does. I think it should. I think it should be unfair.

 

That is the point. Yes. And they should have to deal with it, or fix it by leveling and gearing. I think no one should get a "by" because they're low level. You chose to PvP, you should have to deal with everything PvP is which, by its very nature, is unfairness.

 

 

Welcome to MMOs. Have you played any before? I never said that "true skill" was to be demonstrated. I said level up, gear up, skill up, or get destroyed. They are independent variables in the advantage equation but they the end product relies on all of them.

 

The distinct advantage is obvious and should be there. That's my point.

 

What it's coming down to is it sounds like you're feeling that all your hard work leveling and gearing up is wasted because the 10-49 bracket's bolstering system eventually puts everyone at near equal levels, without having the person go through as much as you to get the gear.

 

Because if you were truly interested in having people train and skill up, you would actually advocate a pvp system where gear and level does not matter, and all that matters is how well you use your abilities.

 

This is where you're contradicting yourself. You're placing so much focus on telling people to skill up, but that is entirely different than spending time to level up and acquire gear. It doesn't take skill to level up and acquire gear... that's more time dependent than anything else. You're basically fine with people having a disadvantage because they lack the time you have, not because they lack the skill.

 

And if you agree that they need to work for their gear, then that's fine. That's what the 50's bracket is for now. All those who just reached 50 will have to work past those already geared up, to get into the game. So what's the problem?

 

The 10-49 puts players on a near equal ground situation where they can train their skills. Then when 50 hits, and it becomes a gear war, then the skill is already there.

 

It isn't. I came better prepared, I put down more money, I should win. You don't get a special "knives only fight" bracket in a street fight. Hell, you can still win. Just sneak up behind me, stab me, you win.

 

Again, you seem to forget how you worded your post. You specifically tell people not to be wimps and don't blame the game. But the game placed them in that exact situation, without much of a choice if they wanted to participate in warzones. The game imposed that restriction.

 

By facing you with a knife, while you possess a gun, I'm not a wimp. But the arena places me in a situation where I must face you head on. It gives me a restriction that gives you the advantage at all times. That is the game's restriction. Not everyone will find that fun so they've expressed themselves. You don't have to agree with their discontent, but I'm pointing out your hypocrisy with your focus on telling people to skill up, gear up or shut up.

 

And as a person who really does believe in skill, and understands how MMO's work, I don't place any type of Whine or QQ posts in regards to how the game plays. I merely adapt to it. If they never had brackets, so be it. Now that they do, that's fine too.

 

I certainly do believe gear makes a difference. I don't think you read most of this thread. I'm not so pro. Never claimed to be.

 

Again, re-read your post and analyze your demeanor. You have a very pro/elitist attitude in your rant.

[Halstadt]

That's because as previously noted a long...long time ago Empire is overpopulated. Just like a choice was made to choose one side or another so is this.

 

Yea it sucks. But i can say on my server lvl 50 republics went from a 1-15 win loss ratio prior to exclusive bracket to ...I haven't lost a game yet..and I am on my 6th match. Funny how statistics work. Empire has a bigger population soo a larger pool of good and mediocre players. No complaints yet except for getting whopped by 10 Imps on Illum at once.

 

TL/DR: Stop complaining over every little change adapt and enjoy. It's a game know one is forcing you to play.

 

Dude, I feel sooo much worse for the Rep on my server: the no queue issue is SO much worse and the ONE guy who does Illum gets facerolled by the armament farming guys who exclusively hunt him down. Honestly, it's not about faction, brackets hurt both.

[Halstadt]

Funny, because all I see are the "We wanna farm lowbies" crowd doing the whining here. Everyone else is quite happy, including 50's like myself that actually like playing on an even playing field.

 

Congratulations for being on a server that has 50s on it, mind lending those to us who get 10hr queue times?

[Dravinian]

I think I can use the phrase that every one on Republic uses when Imperials complain about PvP queues: "You knew when you rolled what you were getting into rolling for the side with less people."

 

Apologies for the cliche.

 

Either way, again, I'm in full support of unfairness in PvP. That's the point of PvP in my mind, unfairness. You use every advantage you can against your enemy to defeat them as completely as possible. You don't fight fair fights in love or war. If you do, you're a fool.

 

I am not complaining. I am pointing out you are wrong.

 

Thus agreeing with the poster to which you made your claims, Republic win more matches now because there are no level 50s carrying them through matches.

 

The same statistics apply to bad players, of which the Imperial side clearly has more.

[phyredrake]

It is not a matter of skill or anything, level 50s with stacked Expertise get rewarded for free farming people without expertise.

 

I hit 50 on my Sorc around the 28th of Dec. That char had over 500 expertise when I stopped playing him.

 

I rolled in premades and would win 9/10 games I played. PVP was simply who has the most geared 50s. It is a joke, I am glad that they have changed this.

 

Undergeared level 50s are a Free Farm to geared out 50s.

 

Approx 3 weeks ago I started a Republic Sage(rerolled with pals), you don't deserve to free farm me and boost your valor rank effortlessly.

[FearlessTeapot]

The question is not whether or not people CAN put up with max level/geared people while leveling, its whether or not they should have to. Yes, everyone CAN level to 50 and get geared. It's a process, it takes time, and for many, it's not partiuclarly enjoyable. But yes, it's possible. I personally level primarily through PVP, which takes longer. The new queues make my entire experience enjoyable.

 

You have the opinion that we should have to go through a 'right of passage,' wherein we get trashed and stomped constantly by our geared overlords all the way to 50, and then beyond as we try to gear as 50s.

 

I have the opinion that we should be given a competative experience the whole way to 50. I understand that we will get stomped at 50 because of gear, but I'd rather be at a gear disadvantage for just that couple of weeks after we hit 50 instead of the whole time from 10-50, and beyond.

 

Take your easy gear, and be happy you got it before the system changed. Anyone with eyes could see that the system was going to change, or far too many people would have quit halfway up the PVP grind because it was too steep when placed at such a disadvantage for so long. I wouldn't go so far as to say all the current geared 50s cheated the system, but you definately had an advantage in rolling lowbies all day for easy medals/comms/valor. Take solace in that fact, and realize that we will be working harder than you when we hit 50 because of the gear disparity.

[pawestman]

The reason that lvl 11 is incapable of killing the lvl 50 has nothing to do with gear and it has everything to do with skill. A NEW lvl 11 that has no other characters SHOULDN'T be able to kill a lvl 50 period. That lvl 50 has put in the time and effort to be level 50 and the lvl 11 hasn't. All the people crying that they were getting rolled on by 50 premades are lazy period.

 

Stop crying about what you don't have and other people do when you are more then capable of getting it yourself. I absolutely agree with the OP. I'm more than happy with killing lvl 50's as a lvl 50 its finally a challenge, and i play pvp for the CHALLENGE.

 

But i do agree that the 1-49 warzones are more even now but people like me and my guildies can still make premades and still tear a warzones apart. It had nothing to do with being 50 and had everything to do with PUG's lack of communication and coordination simple.

 

It has everything to do with gear. That's why people are complaining about expertise. When other people get to level 50, they will face level 50s. Until then, they'll be playing on equal ground while you get owned by people your own level.

[Raice]

I say so because your post delivers the same whiney tune as any other whine post. Yet you criticize the whiners. If you just admit you're ranting and not attack the "whiners", then you wouldn't be labeled a hypocrite.

 

 

 

 

Then you're oblivious to your own writings. Your demeanor has been telling others how they should play. How they should train and better themselves and not blame their failures on the game. That is an elitist persona, no matter how you spin it.

 

 

 

What it's coming down to is it sounds like you're feeling that all your hard work leveling and gearing up is wasted because the 10-49 bracket's bolstering system eventually puts everyone at near equal levels, without having the person go through as much as you to get the gear.

 

Because if you were truly interested in having people train and skill up, you would actually advocate a pvp system where gear and level does not matter, and all that matters is how well you use your abilities.

 

This is where you're contradicting yourself. You're placing so much focus on telling people to skill up, but that is entirely different than spending time to level up and acquire gear. It doesn't take skill to level up and acquire gear... that's more time dependent than anything else. You're basically fine with people having a disadvantage because they lack the time you have, not because they lack the skill.

 

And if you agree that they need to work for their gear, then that's fine. That's what the 50's bracket is for now. All those who just reached 50 will have to work past those already geared up, to get into the game. So what's the problem?

 

The 10-49 puts players on a near equal ground situation where they can train their skills. Then when 50 hits, and it becomes a gear war, then the skill is already there.

 

 

 

Again, you seem to forget how you worded your post. You specifically tell people not to be wimps and don't blame the game. But the game placed them in that exact situation, without much of a choice if they wanted to participate in warzones. The game imposed that restriction.

 

By facing you with a knife, while you possess a gun, I'm not a wimp. But the arena places me in a situation where I must face you head on. It gives me a restriction that gives you the advantage at all times. That is the game's restriction. Not everyone will find that fun so they've expressed themselves. You don't have to agree with their discontent, but I'm pointing out your hypocrisy with your focus on telling people to skill up, gear up or shut up.

 

And as a person who really does believe in skill, and understands how MMO's work, I don't place any type of Whine or QQ posts in regards to how the game plays. I merely adapt to it. If they never had brackets, so be it. Now that they do, that's fine too.

 

 

 

Again, re-read your post and analyze your demeanor. You have a very pro/elitist attitude in your rant.

 

All of this is pretty much spot on.

 

Do you know where the Pro Baseball League gets its players? From the Minors. The Minor League is there so that players can train for the Major League. As far as I'm concerned, that's exactly what the 10-49 range is now: the Minor League. Once they hit 50... sure.. they'll be rookied around for a while.... but they'll get the hang of it.

[Barrechor]

As a level 50 myself with 10%+ expertise I kind of know what the op is pissed about. We had to roll against 50s regularly (I didnt play with him personally) and genuinely had to work for every inch of ground gained in some matches.

 

Teamwork and good communication was vital if you were to stand any chance of beating an enemy team with a 4 man premade in it, but we got there.

 

Was I ever pissed about facing lv50s? No. I saw it as a challenge and a chance to make a name for myself, and I facerolled many a level 50 long before I hit the mark myself.

 

I'm glad the bracket has been introduced personally, because I like to constantly test myself against the 'So called' best there is. I win the majority of matches when I roll with a guild pre-made and I'll regularly top the damage stat with my focus guardian.

 

I'm not narrow minded enough that I cant see both sides to this argument, the argument itself however, does not bother me to be honest.

[XChub-ChubsX]

love the 50 tears. what's wrong? can't win against other 50's? can't hide behind your gear?

 

i lawled...clearly OP is crying hard but has to try and put some poor reasoning behind his poor reasoning if u catch my drift.

 

why cant u play against your own level? honestly lol u talk about skill yet u want to pvp against lower levels...hmmm....as far as answering your other questions, dont really need to. when u want to take advantage of the system why bother with your fail QQ attempts?

[Raice]

It is not a matter of skill or anything, level 50s with stacked Expertise get rewarded for free farming people without expertise.

 

I hit 50 on my Sorc around the 28th of Dec. That char had over 500 expertise when I stopped playing him.

 

I rolled in premades and would win 9/10 games I played. PVP was simply who has the most geared 50s. It is a joke, I am glad that they have changed this.

 

Undergeared level 50s are a Free Farm to geared out 50s.

 

Approx 3 weeks ago I started a Republic Sage(rerolled with pals), you don't deserve to free farm me and boost your valor rank effortlessly.

 

THIS

 

That is exactly why this Bracket thing should have been implemented IMMEDIATELY. It should have been part of the design to begin with.

 

Now, the circumstance we're in now might have already happened. But it would have happened a little more organically, and much later than it actually did.

[Lazorous]

All of this is pretty much spot on.

 

Do you know where the Pro Baseball League gets its players? From the Minors. The Minor League is there so that players can train for the Major League. As far as I'm concerned, that's exactly what the 10-49 range is now: the Minor League. Once they hit 50... sure.. they'll be rookied around for a while.... but they'll get the hang of it.

 

That's a good analogy, and a much shorter version than my rambling, lol.

[ScapeGoats]

I have a 50 and a 22 and I like the new brackets.

[Raice]

That's a good analogy, and a much shorter version than my rambling, lol.

 

Meh... I can relate. Geniuses love to hear themselves speak. Not because they think so highly of themselves... but simply... it's the only time they ever hear anything that makes sense

[Lazorous]

Meh... I can relate. Geniuses love to hear themselves speak. Not because they think so highly of themselves... but simply... it's the only time they ever hear anything that makes sense

 

Nice. That should be a sig.