Troll Thrower -Arena

[Real_Zacious]

5 minutes ago, Darkestmonty said:

I vote kicked plenty of players in the 10 years it was active. All of whom were AFK.

sorry that you feel vote kick was a tool to be abused against anyone you didn't like in a warzone even if they were playing the game.

I agree on afk mate.. they need to be kicked. System was abused by people when it's intent was to help a us.. seems that's exactly why we can't get nice things now.. we are paying from the sins of the past now unfortunately..

Edited February 8 by Real_Zacious

[TrixxieTriss]

5 hours ago, Darkestmonty said:

sorry that you feel vote kick was a tool to be abused against anyone you didn't like in a warzone even if they were playing the game.

Once again misreading the posts & then misrepresenting what I said with what someone else said. I never once said people abused it in War Zones.

[septru]

4 hours ago, MadCuzBad said:

I don't know exactly how to make vote kick work

The obvious solution would have been increased the requirement for vote kick from 2 to 5, which would include at least 2 people from the enemy team. They could have done this by creating a button in the arena frame that allows you to vote kick someone from the enemy team by clicking on their name. Granted this wouldn't do much for warzones, but at least AFKers and throwers in warzones don't kill the warzone que like they kill the arena que. 

 

But of course... typical BioWare. 

[Nee-Elder]

4 hours ago, septru said:

 They could have done this by creating a button in the arena frame that allows you to vote kick someone from the enemy team by clicking on their name.

That's actually an interesting idea , except for one problem: Why would the opposing team , who is benefitting/winning  by taking advantage of the AFK/troll  , choose to then vote-kick  that same AFK/troll ?  ( thereby removing their free advantage & easy win )

Like, since when are  most  PVPers ever so magnanimous & noble?

Wouldn't a better more realistic system of regulating poor behavior, at this point in SWTOR's skeleton crew of Devs , have to include some sort of  automated 'contribution'  stat monitoring system  similar to how GSF auto-kick works?

Edited February 25 by Nee-Elder

[Anhkriva]

48 minutes ago, Nee-Elder said:

That's actually an interesting idea , except for one problem: Why would the opposing team , who is benefitting/winning  by taking advantage of the AFK/troll  , choose to then vote-kick  that same AFK/troll ?  ( thereby removing their free advantage & easy win )

Like, since when are  most  PVPers ever so magnanimous & noble?

There is nothing noble in respecting your own time... Haven't you noticed that when the last member of the losing team starts to hide instead of losing with dignity, both teams cooperate to find him as quickly as possible and end the match? With this solution, they could just kick him out, or players would simply stop doing so if they knew they would be kicked out for it.

55 minutes ago, Nee-Elder said:

Wouldn't a better more realistic system of regulating poor behavior, at this point in SWTOR's skeleton crew of Devs , have to include some sort of  automated 'contribution'  stat monitoring system  similar to how GSF auto-kick works?

GSF auto-kick doesn't work... that's why there are so many complaints about it.

It kicks out bad players who are trying but can't do it yet, while leaving players who are afk and self-destructing.

[Nee-Elder]

32 minutes ago, Anhkriva said:

 Haven't you noticed that when the last member of the losing team starts to hide instead of losing with dignity, both teams cooperate to find him as quickly as possible and end the match?

Mostly i just see people raging in chat about it  lol  , but yes sometimes i've noticed the  *search & rid*  method.

32 minutes ago, Anhkriva said:

 With this solution, they could just kick him out, or players would simply stop doing so if they knew they would be kicked out for it.

Would be an interesting alternative to test , and i do agree  community shame is often a very effective manner of policing  video games ( or society ) .   I'd be pleasantly shocked if BioSword  did anything to change current status quo  though.

32 minutes ago, Anhkriva said:

GSF auto-kick doesn't work... that's why there are so many complaints about it.

It def. works , just not good enough.  Hence why the complaints of  "but i  WAS contributing!!!"  from typically innocent players.

BioSword needs to adjust/amend the  algorithm.

Edited February 26 by Nee-Elder

[TrixxieTriss]

I think giving the enemy team 2 votes would open it up to more abuse in Arena. But they could be given 1 vote to the leader & the leader would need to get 3 votes from his team to use it. And the system would require 7 total votes to eject the person. 

But here are some hypotheticals. 

What do you do when you have 2 AFKers or people decide to abuse vote kick again because they don’t like X player.

Also, there are zero solutions on how to make this work in 8 man WZ’s. So this is only something that addresses AFKers in Arena. What do you do about WZ’s.

Honestly, the only realistic way to fix the AFK issue in WZ’s is to make it so players have to do xyz to get rewards. The medal system is in place to do that. But it needs more work to make it fit for purpose. 

Edited February 26 by TrixxieTriss

[septru]

1 hour ago, Nee-Elder said:

Why would the opposing team , who is benefitting/winning  by taking advantage of the AFK/troll  , choose to then vote-kick  that same AFK/troll ?  ( thereby removing their free advantage & easy win )

In ranked (which is what I was talking about)  there were no mid-match backfills. Backfills were simply disabled after the match started. So the opposing team would still geta free 3v4 if they vote kicked the enemy AFKer/troll. 

 

But honestly it would probably work in regs too, because most people realize that an arena win is still not worth the 10 minutes of their life they will never get back because a troll wants to AFK in stealth in the arena. 

 

12 minutes ago, TrixxieTriss said:

I think giving the enemy team 2 votes would open it up to more abuse in Arena. But they could be given 1 vote to the leader. And the system would require 4 votes to eject the person.

You didn't understand my post. Currently (in arenas), it only requires 2 team members to vote kick a player. I proposed increasing that to 5 votes, which would require at least 2 enemy team members to vote to kick and at least 2 team members. 

 

TLDR: The more votes required = the less open for abuse.

 

12 minutes ago, TrixxieTriss said:

Honestly, the only realistic way to fix the AFK issue in WZ’s is to make it so players have to do xyz to get rewards. The medal system is in place to do that. But it needs more work to make it fit for purpose. 

Yes, hence the need for skill based rewards. But again.... typical BioWare. 

Edited February 26 by septru

[TrixxieTriss]

26 minutes ago, septru said:

You didn't understand my post. Currently (in arenas), it only requires 2 team members to vote kick a player. I proposed increasing that to 5 votes, which would require at least 2 enemy team members to vote to kick and at least 2 team members. 

 

TLDR: The more votes required = the less open for abuse.

Actually I understood your post perfectly. My point is if the other team has 1 or 2 members on it who are friends with the other team, it could still be abused. 
My suggestion is only the leader of the opposing team votes, but they have to acquire the rest of their team’s permission to do so. If 1 person on their team disagrees, they don’t get to vote.

29 minutes ago, septru said:

Yes, hence the need for skill based rewards. But again.... typical BioWare

Game is underfunded still after the transfer of companies & they care about PvP even less than they did before (which I didn’t think was possible). 

[RACATW]

Vote kick being removed only affected arenas. I never mangaed to successfully kick Naffeng Kreeoli from a WZ back when he played as deadofwinter.

[HaoZhao]

On 2/25/2024 at 4:00 PM, septru said:

The obvious solution would have been increased the requirement for vote kick from 2 to 5, which would include at least 2 people from the enemy team. They could have done this by creating a button in the arena frame that allows you to vote kick someone from the enemy team by clicking on their name. Granted this wouldn't do much for warzones, but at least AFKers and throwers in warzones don't kill the warzone que like they kill the arena que. 

 

But of course... typical BioWare. 

Yeah, let's set up a parliamentary committee for PVP integrity in the middle of matches. We'll all stop PVPing to discuss the merits of charges against trolls. (lol)

If you change the rules, then the trolls will change to adapt. Instead of AFKing, they'll just play poorly on purpose and then then burden of proof is on you to distinguish between genuinely bad players and genuine trolls.

[Darkestmonty]

2 hours ago, HaoZhao said:

Yeah, let's set up a parliamentary committee for PVP integrity in the middle of matches. We'll all stop PVPing to discuss the merits of charges against trolls. (lol)

If you change the rules, then the trolls will change to adapt. Instead of AFKing, they'll just play poorly on purpose and then then burden of proof is on you to distinguish between genuinely bad players and genuine trolls.

Players who throw games quickly are preferred over trolls who stealth around and drag out the games until they time out.

Vote kick basically stopped this from happening because teams would vote kick players who wasted everyones time by stealthing around and refusing to fight.

[HaoZhao]

18 hours ago, Darkestmonty said:

Players who throw games quickly are preferred over trolls who stealth around and drag out the games until they time out.

Vote kick basically stopped this from happening because teams would vote kick players who wasted everyones time by stealthing around and refusing to fight.

You're thinking small. The only change that needs to happen is stealth being turned off if you're the only member of your team left.

If everyone else is dead, your stealth should automatically cancel after 10 seconds and it should have a 1 minute cooldown.

Let's not play the game of "gaslight the devs which never works but let's do it anyway." It's a boring game. Vote kick was removed because of rampant abuse. One guy on the team dies, legit, the rest of the team throws a tantrum and boots him. That's why it is gone.

[Darkestmonty]

2 hours ago, HaoZhao said:

You're thinking small. The only change that needs to happen is stealth being turned off if you're the only member of your team left.

If everyone else is dead, your stealth should automatically cancel after 10 seconds and it should have a 1 minute cooldown.

Let's not play the game of "gaslight the devs which never works but let's do it anyway." It's a boring game. Vote kick was removed because of rampant abuse. One guy on the team dies, legit, the rest of the team throws a tantrum and boots him. That's why it is gone.

I've seen very good stealth turn a loss into a win by vanishing, hiding and waiting out their cool downs. It's rare but it tends to be operatives.

[Artemisswtor]

Lmao you want to police yourself?  Yeah that's a great idea!  

The worse part is that SWTOR at one time thought that policing yourself was a good idea and allows players to kick others.  They should fire those that decided that. 
 

Let me give a reality check for those that want to post about their feelings.

-Ranked is gone. 
-Throwing was put in for ranked play so isn't a thing anymore. Ranked gone.

-Arena is not ranked.  It's equivalent to warzones now.

-Anyone can play arena and anyone can play war zone.  Ranked gone.

In regards to the thrower.  Who cares? See above points.  I mean sure you can post your feelings but I think this should be reserved for your loved ones.  Ranked is gone so throwing is no longer a thing.  I realize by reading this thread that you want SWTOR to enforce your feelings but they should not.  

Yesterday I was in arena with 200 something gear and was doing my quests and every game I got complaints about my gear.  Did I have every right to be there? Absolutely. Was I breaking the TOS? Absolutely not. Do people feel I shouldn't queue without better gear?  Absolutely 

 Now imagine if these same people had the ability to kick me and now you have the answer as to why you shouldn't be allowed to police yourself.

 

The constructive part of my post: we all have the same equal right to be there and your feelings don't trump anyone else's right to be there.
 

 

 

 

 

 

[Darkestmonty]

3 hours ago, Artemisswtor said:

Lmao you want to police yourself?  Yeah that's a great idea!  

The worse part is that SWTOR at one time thought that policing yourself was a good idea and allows players to kick others.  They should fire those that decided that. 
 

Let me give a reality check for those that want to post about their feelings.

-Ranked is gone. 
-Throwing was put in for ranked play so isn't a thing anymore. Ranked gone.

-Arena is not ranked.  It's equivalent to warzones now.

-Anyone can play arena and anyone can play war zone.  Ranked gone.

In regards to the thrower.  Who cares? See above points.  I mean sure you can post your feelings but I think this should be reserved for your loved ones.  Ranked is gone so throwing is no longer a thing.  I realize by reading this thread that you want SWTOR to enforce your feelings but they should not.  

Yesterday I was in arena with 200 something gear and was doing my quests and every game I got complaints about my gear.  Did I have every right to be there? Absolutely. Was I breaking the TOS? Absolutely not. Do people feel I shouldn't queue without better gear?  Absolutely 

 Now imagine if these same people had the ability to kick me and now you have the answer as to why you shouldn't be allowed to police yourself.

 

The constructive part of my post: we all have the same equal right to be there and your feelings don't trump anyone else's right to be there.

when a stealth stays hidden the whole game refusing to fight, lets the round time out while talking trash, then repeats that same thing the second round... players on both teams tend to care.

Edited March 7 by Darkestmonty

[Artemisswtor]

Okay? If you can't understand what I said then I can't help you.

[Traceguy]

What about trolls who join the arena and then quit before the match begins? Seen this a lot over the weekend. You'll see in the chat x joins / x leaves. You get stuck going 1v4. You have to lay down and die at that point.

 

On 3/6/2024 at 4:15 PM, Artemisswtor said:

Yesterday I was in arena with 200 something gear

If you're under level 80, it makes no difference. If you're level 80, there is zero excuse to not be in at least 324. At level 80, trash mobs drop 324 systech gear, flashpoint and ops bosses are guaranteed to drop 324 pieces for each slot under 324. Weeklies offer 324 Noble decurion armor, and a conquest vendor exists to buy a full set with just a handful of conquest comms. A level 80 in gear under 324 will under perform compared to a level 40 with bolster

Edited March 12 by Traceguy

[ZUHFB]

3 minutes ago, Traceguy said:

What about trolls who join the arena and then quit before the match begins? Seen this a lot over the weekend. You'll see in the chat x joins / x leaves. You get stuck going 1v4. You have to lay down and die at that point.

I do this all the time, log in, queue arena, see I'm vs a premade, see my mates, alt f4 and log into WoW.

[Traceguy]

11 minutes ago, ZUHFB said:

I do this all the time, log in, queue arena, see I'm vs a premade, see my mates, alt f4 and log into WoW.

If you don't mind me asking, why did you queue PVP to start with? To kill time? I'm playing arenas to complete the seasons objectives and achievements, which requires 12 completions of the weekly. Considering queue times on Satele Shan are long, it can take several hours to complete 16/16. A loss is still +1 point. I'll take it.

[ZUHFB]

1 hour ago, Traceguy said:

If you don't mind me asking, why did you queue PVP to start with?

I'm bored. There is no reason to play PvP or do the seasons, at least no logical one, I just want to have fun since I got bored from another game, I want to PvP but that is not PvP. This is just a waste of time, why play against a premade - or with one? It's not fun if the other party doesn't do the same, it's straight up boring. Might as well go to the gym then.

[Artemisswtor]

8 hours ago, Traceguy said:

What about trolls who join the arena and then quit before the match begins? Seen this a lot over the weekend. You'll see in the chat x joins / x leaves. You get stuck going 1v4. You have to lay down and die at that point.

 

If you're under level 80, it makes no difference. If you're level 80, there is zero excuse to not be in at least 324. At level 80, trash mobs drop 324 systech gear, flashpoint and ops bosses are guaranteed to drop 324 pieces for each slot under 324. Weeklies offer 324 Noble decurion armor, and a conquest vendor exists to buy a full set with just a handful of conquest comms. A level 80 in gear under 324 will under perform compared to a level 40 with bolster

I'm doing arenas because I have two quests to finish.  I realize you think your emotions trump my right to be there but so what? Thanks for sharing your feelings I guess? 

please reread my post because I don't think you get it.

[Traceguy]

32 minutes ago, Artemisswtor said:

I'm doing arenas because I have two quests to finish. 

Sorry, but what?

[Artemisswtor]

I am doing arenas to do two separate quests where that completing arena will go toward the completion of these quests.

 

What's the problem? Is it that you think your feelings trumps my right to be there?  What's specifically the problem?

Edited March 12 by Artemisswtor

[ZUHFB]

8 hours ago, Artemisswtor said:

What's the problem? Is it that you think your feelings trumps my right to be there?  What's specifically the problem?

The problem is that its hard to accept that the own impact on the outcome of a match is zero when against a good premade. It don't matter if its a 1v4 or a 4v4. He just has yet to make this realization.

I mean the only way to win an arena vs premade is to randomly get a pug of ranked allstars, of wait, they all quit...

Edited March 13 by ZUHFB