Troll Thrower -Arena

[meddani]

they should fix their game first

- horrible matchmaking (2v4 , 4 dops vs 2dps 2 tanks etc)

- horrible deserter debuff , even if you DC

- desync, lag 

 

but pls introduce more cartel market slop, biosword

[sithBracer]

On 1/29/2024 at 10:34 AM, darksidenerd said:

Looks like we have another one in our server, same stealth class that just hides the whole match until the end.
The player who was my reason for starting this post isn't around anymore. I assume Devs actually did their jobs? I'm assuming this new troll is the same guy just made a different toon..


Maybe yall wont take so long this time.

 

Better yet, BRING BACK TO VOTE TO KICK!

Vote kick never worked in warzones nor did it work in arenas. It was just abused to make solo ranked more toxic. Realistically, even in arenas if someone is AFKing and you vote him kick out, will the situation get any better? No, chances for a backfill in such a short time are super low, so you will almost always be in the same position that you were in to begin with. If vote kick returned, it would only be used to troll players making the arena situation more toxic.

[MadCuzBad]

On 1/29/2024 at 10:34 AM, darksidenerd said:

Looks like we have another one in our server, same stealth class that just hides the whole match until the end.
The player who was my reason for starting this post isn't around anymore. I assume Devs actually did their jobs? I'm assuming this new troll is the same guy just made a different toon..


Maybe yall wont take so long this time.

 

Better yet, BRING BACK TO VOTE TO KICK!

Most likely the same guy on a new account. He was throwing while he leveld to 80. His name is something Dal or something. I completely stopped queing arenas for 3 weeks now because of him. I only queue warzones until he is banned.

[darksidenerd]

47 minutes ago, MadCuzBad said:

Most likely the same guy on a new account. He was throwing while he leveld to 80. His name is something Dal or something. I completely stopped queing arenas for 3 weeks now because of him. I only queue warzones until he is banned.

 YUP! Thats the guy, Im jealous you were able to put a part of his name in here, I tried and got a warning from Dev..  but yup! that's him. I got lucky yesterday he didnt seem to be on...

[Darkestmonty]

On 1/31/2024 at 12:07 PM, sithBracer said:

Vote kick never worked in warzones nor did it work in arenas. It was just abused to make solo ranked more toxic. Realistically, even in arenas if someone is AFKing and you vote him kick out, will the situation get any better? No, chances for a backfill in such a short time are super low, so you will almost always be in the same position that you were in to begin with. If vote kick returned, it would only be used to troll players making the arena situation more toxic.

I vote kicked plenty of AFKers in warzones and one person who refused to fight in Arena because "the teams aren't fair". The player stayed stealth in arena and refused to fight in round one. Eventually the arena time ran out and they died trying to run. They tried it again in round 2 but we kicked them after we noticed they again did not leave stealth once while we all died.

Vote kick worked by lessening the amount of AFKers in PvP. The mere existence of vote kick was enough keep players from queuing up for PvP then immediately going AFK like they do now knowing they can't be kicked or removed.

Did vote kick fix fix everything about PvP? No, but it did stop the rampant AFKing we have now.

What I find funny is that a lot of people against vote kick in this thread are saying "vote kick never worked" while also stating "vote kicked worked so well it was abused".

Edited February 2 by Darkestmonty

[sithBracer]

12 hours ago, Darkestmonty said:

I vote kicked plenty of AFKers in warzones and one person who refused to fight in Arena because "the teams aren't fair". The player stayed stealth in arena and refused to fight in round one. Eventually the arena time ran out and they died trying to run. They tried it again in round 2 but we kicked them after we noticed they again did not leave stealth once while we all died.

Vote kick worked by lessening the amount of AFKers in PvP. The mere existence of vote kick was enough keep players from queuing up for PvP then immediately going AFK like they do now knowing they can't be kicked or removed.

Did vote kick fix fix everything about PvP? No, but it did stop the rampant AFKing we have now.

What I find funny is that a lot of people against vote kick in this thread are saying "vote kick never worked" while also stating "vote kicked worked so well it was abused".

Yeah, I'm just going to call BS and anyone who's ever tried to vote kick someone from a warzone would agree with me. In order to vote kick someone from a warzone you had to get 3 people to agree with you and most people were so busy with the wz itself that they just couldn't be bothered. And even if 3 people did agree to vote kick someone with you, all the person had to do to stop the vote kick was engage in combat for a second then run away. Vote kick was so useless BW themselves said it on live stream. You can still see it in the interview a popular swtor streamer had with eric musco. When the streamer asked musco what they can do about a troll being on your team in a warzone, musco answered "nothing". Did it fail literally every single time? no, of course not, but even a broken clock is right twice a day. The amount of times we were actually able to vote kick someone for being a troll, I can count on one hand. Vote kick did not deter afkers, afkers rarely existed before because people were just able to leave warzones without penalty and PvP seasons didn't exist. You went into PvP because you wanted to PvP and got warzone comms for it. Now people who don't care about PvP go there because they want the season rewards and tech fragments. Those are the people that afk.

As for the abuse, that was strictly in solo ranked. The above streamer has an interview with "the sheriff" who abused it as well btw, and to his credit, "the sheriff" now feels that what he did was wrong and vote kick shouldn't exist. But what basically happened was, when someone came into the arena that they didn't like, they vote kicked him right away without even giving him a chance causing him to lose rating.

People did this for a few reasons. One was because they "felt" like the person wasn't good enough to participate in their precious toilet ranked. But there was a much more insidious reason sometimes. In solo ranked, the system would balance around the trinity making sure that no team got a support class if the other team didn't. But if one team lost a team member during the match, they would try to backfill it with whatever it could (I got a tank on our team once against the opponents 4 dps team). So they would vote kick players hoping that their healer/skank jugg friend would backfill. If they did it fast enough right at the start, it would provide the system with enough time to get a backfill since the first match doesn't start for like a minute to give everyone enough time to accept the match.

Now in the case of trolls would this work? No. In warzones all they have to do is start a battle, then run away to stop the vote kick. In arenas, once the match starts you can't vote kick until the next round, so even if you manage to get it done, you have 20s to backfill. With the amount of people queueing, chances of getting a backfill are almost none.

INB4 "well we can just vote kick the troll as soon as he gets there, we all know who he is. We might get a backfill then". First off, trolls have many alts, second, the troll will just wait until the last second to accept causing the countdown to start as soon as he gets in. With the amount of people queuing, your result will still be the same and he will still laugh in your face at the end of the day.

We all hate trolls, but vote kick is not the answer. It never worked before, it won't work if it is brought back.

Edited February 2 by sithBracer

[Darkestmonty]

2 minutes ago, sithBracer said:

Yeah, I'm just going to call BS and anyone who's ever tried to vote kick someone from a warzone would agree with me. In order to vote kick someone from a warzone you had to get 3 people to agree with you and most people were so busy with the wz itself that they just couldn't be bothered. And even if 3 people did agree to vote kick someone with you, all the person had to do to stop the vote kick was engage in combat for a second then run away. Vote kick was so useless BW themselves said it on live stream. You can still see it in the interview snave had with eric musco. When snave asked musco what they can do about a troll being on your team in a warzone, musco answered "nothing". Did it fail literally every single time? no, of course not, but even a broken clock is right twice a day. The amount of times we were actually able to vote kick someone for being a troll, I can count on one hand. Vote kick did not deter afkers, afkers rarely existed before because people were just able to leave warzones without penalty and PvP seasons didn't exist. You went into PvP because you wanted to PvP and got warzone comms for it. Now people who don't care about PvP go there because they want the season rewards and tech fragments. Those are the people that afk.

As for the abuse, that was strictly in solo ranked. Snave has an interview with "the sheriff" who abused it as well btw, and to his credit, "the sheriff" now feels that what he did was wrong and vote kick shouldn't exist. But what basically happened was, when someone came into the arena that they didn't like, they vote kicked him right away without even giving him a chance causing him to lose rating.

People did this for a few reasons. One was because they "felt" like the person wasn't good enough to participate in their precious toilet ranked. But there was a much more insidious reason sometimes. In solo ranked, the system would balance around the trinity making sure that no team got a support class if the other team didn't. But if one team lost a team member during the match, they would try to backfill it with whatever it could (I got a tank on our team once against the opponents 4 dps team). So they would vote kick players hoping that their healer/skank jugg friend would backfill. If they did it fast enough right at the start, it would provide the system with enough time to get a backfill since the first match doesn't start for like a minute to give everyone enough time to accept the match.

Now in the case of trolls would this work? No. In warzones all they have to do is start a battle, then run away to stop the vote kick. In arenas, once the match starts you can't vote kick until the next round, so even if you manage to get it done, you have 20s to backfill. With the amount of people queueing, chances of getting a backfill are almost none.

INB4 "well we can just vote kick the troll as soon as he gets there, we all know who he is. We might get a backfill then". First off, trolls have many alts, second, the troll will just wait until the last second to accept causing the countdown to start as soon as he gets in. With the amount of people queuing, your result will still be the same and he will still laugh in your face at the end of the day.

We all hate trolls, but vote kick is not the answer. It never worked before, it won't work if it is brought back.

Vote kick worked. We have more serial AFKers than we did while vote kick was active.

The fact that anyone can now stealth into a corner and can't be removed from the game is enough to encourage certain players to abuse the lack of vote kick.

We have known players who do nothing all day but join warzones to AFK in corners to finish daillies and weeklies.

[sithBracer]

12 minutes ago, Darkestmonty said:

Vote kick worked. We have more serial AFKers than we did while vote kick was active.

The fact that anyone can now stealth into a corner and can't be removed from the game is enough to encourage certain players to abuse the lack of vote kick.

We have known players who do nothing all day but join warzones to AFK in corners to finish daillies and weeklies.

No it didn't, I already explained it. You are taking a correlation and just assuming it to be true without looking at any other evidence. I can say that my pet rock made pvp in swtor have the best balance ever. When I had my pet rock, classes were more balanced than ever in this game and it will be the same argument.

The reason we didn't have as many afkers at the time, and I'll say it again, is because PvP seasons didn't exist and you didn't get a huge tech fragment reward as you do now. The people who afk are the people who just login for the season rewards /tech fragments. Wanna know how we know this? THEY ADMIT IT. There were even a few people here on the forums admitting it.

Another reason we didn't have as many afkers back then is because we didn't have a leave penalty. People who didn't like the team would just leave the match. Now, because we have a penalty, they just afk once they see the match is unwinnable (or at least they think it is). Vote kick will not help in either case. they will just start combat to stop the kick and then go back into stealth/corner. Once again and I'll put this into a nice bold for you: eric musco himself admit that there is nothing you can do about a troll on your team. And this was back when vote kick existed. they even had a conversation about how vote kick was useless after that.

Edited February 2 by sithBracer

[sithBracer]

3 minutes ago, Darkestmonty said:

A troll who was actively playing, not someone who was joining a match and immediately stealthing into a corner and AFKing.

If by "actively playing" you mean he was at their computer watching youtube on their phone vs in the bathroom doing #2, the answer is we don't know, because you are not next to the person. You just assume he isn't close to the screen because you want to believe vote kick works so you cling on to some delusion that anyone who is not participating will be vote kicked immediately. We had it for many years, and the only thing it was used for successfully, is solo ranked abuse/cheating.

You think trolls are bad now? Imagine a group of two trolls going into arenas and kicking everyone who comes in for the lols, and stealthing the rest of the match. Because that will happen way more often that a successful deserved vote kick.

[Darkestmonty]

15 minutes ago, sithBracer said:

If by "actively playing" you mean he was at their computer watching youtube on their phone vs in the bathroom doing #2, the answer is we don't know, because you are not next to the person. You just assume he isn't close to the screen because you want to believe vote kick works so you cling on to some delusion that anyone who is not participating will be vote kicked immediately. We had it for many years, and the only thing it was used for successfully, is solo ranked abuse/cheating.

You think trolls are bad now? Imagine a group of two trolls going into arenas and kicking everyone who comes in for the lols, and stealthing the rest of the match. Because that will happen way more often that a successful deserved vote kick.

You and I both know the difference between an AFKer and someone who is trolling their team.

I played solo ranked PvP since season 1 and was kicked a total of zero times.

What's more of an issue, a hypothetical in ranked pvp that no longer exists or the very real issue we have now with AFKers in warzones?

  

16 minutes ago, sithBracer said:

You think trolls are bad now? Imagine a group of two trolls going into arenas and kicking everyone who comes in for the lols, and stealthing the rest of the match. Because that will happen way more often that a successful deserved vote kick.

so, Vote Kick never really worked but worked so well it was abused?

Edited February 2 by Darkestmonty

[sithBracer]

5 minutes ago, Darkestmonty said:

You and I both know the difference between an AFKer and someone who is trolling their team.

I played solo ranked PvP since season 1 and was kicked a total of zero times.

What's more of an issue, a hypothetical in ranked pvp that no longer exists or the very real issue we have now with AFKers in warzones?

1. No I don't. Please tell me how you know someone is afking in a match. Do you have some magic goggles that you can see everywhere?

2. And?

3. It never worked in warzones, BW admit, you have no argument other than your pious belief, so I'm not even going to reply to this anymore. And my hypothetical wouldn't work in ranked because you couldn't group up. It could and more than likely will happen in arenas since you can group now.

Edited February 2 by sithBracer

[Darkestmonty]

Just now, sithBracer said:

1. No I don't. Please tell me how you know someone is afking in a match. Do you have some magic goggles that you can see everywhere?

2. And?

3. It never worked in warzones, BW admit, you have no argument other than your deliusion, so I'm not even going to reply to this anymore. And my hypothetical wouldn't work in ranked because you couldn't group up. It could and more than likely will happen in arenas since you can group now.

That's your issue, you don't know the difference between trolling and AFKing.

Vote kick took care of AFKers, not trolls.

[sithBracer]

3 minutes ago, Darkestmonty said:

That's your issue, you don't know the difference between trolling and AFKing.

Vote kick took care of AFKers, not trolls.

evidence for this? none? ok ignored.

Edited February 2 by sithBracer

[Monterone]

I'm all for vote kicking coming back, as long as the deserter debuff is removed at the same time.

People should have a way to kick trolls off the team, but at the same time subscribers should be able to drop a bad team and re-queue before it ever gets to the point of vote kicking.

Fixing matchmaking seems like a really big project and something they have not even tried tackling yet; until they do we should have control over our own matchmaking. What I mean is being able drop the game if you get that same 4 man pre-made in 100-200 rating gear, and re-queue while they are still in that game. That way you can break the cycle and get a different team that doesn't waste an hour or two of your evening.

We even send whispers to that team, tell them how to get 336 mods for Hyde and Zeek and yet, day after day these teams queue together and waste everyone's time. If they are not willing to gear up for cheap, and insist on throwing games for everyone, and you can't kick a whole pre-made, other players should be allowed to drop the game and immediately re-queue to avoid them.

What makes this even worse is that the matchmaking system will try to match a pre-made with a pre-made, so when you get into a cycle of getting the same undergeared pre-made on your side, it's almost guaranteed the pre-made on the other side will be fully geared and actual PvPers, and they'll keep queueing for as long as they can get free wins.

[TrixxieTriss]

This is a pointless discussion on vote kick.

As has been pointed out by many people in multiple threads, who remember exactly how vote kick actually worked, it never worked in WZ’s to remove trolls or AFKers & is was too easily abused in Arena. 

Honestly, the people advocating for it to come back, either never actually used it or are misremembering through rose coloured glasses. 

Vote kick doesn’t work or is simply abused too much. It’s a terrible system. What you should be advocating for is in game moderation by AI or asking the devs to incentivise winning more than AFKing. 
 

Edited February 6 by TrixxieTriss

[TrixxieTriss]

On 2/3/2024 at 2:24 AM, Darkestmonty said:

Vote kick took care of AFKers

Vote kick never got rid of AFKers in WZ’s. I think I saw it successfully used once in 11 years of playing WZ’s in the game. 

[sithBracer]

14 hours ago, TrixxieTriss said:

Vote kick never got rid of AFKers in WZ’s. I think I saw it successfully used once in 11 years of playing WZ’s in the game. 

There were times I got frustrated with my team and I just wrote "afk" in chat and left the computer. I never got vote kicked even once. And when I came back I actually saw replies saying "lets vote kick!!!!!". lol. This was a long time ago when I actually cared and was more immature.

[Darkestmonty]

21 hours ago, TrixxieTriss said:

Vote kick never got rid of AFKers in WZ’s. I think I saw it successfully used once in 11 years of playing WZ’s in the game. 

AFK means "Away From Keyboard" or in gaming terms, not paying attention to what is happening in the game.

Someone who is AFK can be vote kicked because they aren't monitoring the game. Because they aren't monitoring the game, they don't know when to enter combat to cancel Vote Kick.

Players who are trolling their team or trash talking all while refusing to participate are not AFK because they are still monitoring their game and able to cancel vote kick by constantly moving to a defensive location, entering combat, or avoiding combat.

Vote kick only works on AFKers or the dumbest of trolls who refuse to enter combat when the vote kick initiates.

Vote kick was not perfect, recent updates on the range increase for earning attack/defender points fixes the issue of defenders being vote kicked for guarding a node when it was not under attack. Disabling vote kick when a player is dead will fix the only other exploit (for arena) for vote kicking active players.

Vote kick worked for AFKers, not trolls or those who refused to participate. Trolls and people who refuse to participate are a completely different issue which vote kick was not designed to fix.

Edited February 6 by Darkestmonty

[TrixxieTriss]

22 hours ago, Darkestmonty said:

Someone who is AFK can be vote kicked because they aren't monitoring the game. Because they aren't monitoring the game, they don't know when to enter combat to cancel Vote Kick

🤦‍♀️ I understand the mechanics of it.

I’m telling you it didn’t work in practice in WZ’s because you’d need at least half the team to vote & all it took for the AFK player to cancel it was to be in combat or to click a terminal. Some people even ran bots to do that for them. I once saw a YouTube video on how to do it, but it’s since been removed. 

Like I said, in 11 years of nearly full time pvping in this game, I think I saw vote kick work once in a WZ to remove AFKers or trolls. It’s a poor man’s replacement for legitimate game moderators being removed from the game. BS could always develop an AI moderator if they wanted to & have the funds to do so. But vote kick should never be added back in. 

[Darkestmonty]

27 minutes ago, TrixxieTriss said:

🤦‍♀️ I understand the mechanics of it.

I’m telling you it didn’t work in practice in WZ’s because you’d need at least half the team to vote & all it took for the AFK player to cancel it was to be in combat or to click a terminal. Some people even ran bots to do that for them. I once saw a YouTube video on how to do it, but it’s since been removed. 

Like I said, in 11 years of nearly full time pvping in this game, I think I saw vote kick work once in a WZ to remove AFKers or trolls. It’s a poor man’s replacement for legitimate game moderators being removed from the game. BS could always develop an AI moderator if they wanted to & have the funds to do so. But vote kick should never be added back in. 

considering I vote kicked multiple AFKers in Warzones and at least 1 troll in Arena along with a massive increase in indiscriminate AFKing once vote kick was removed, Vote Kick worked.

People are saying "vote kick never worked" and yet "vote kick was so easy to use it was abused".

did vote kick never work or was it so easy to use it was abused constantly?

Edited February 7 by Darkestmonty

[TrixxieTriss]

3 minutes ago, Darkestmonty said:

considering I vote kicked multiple AFKers in Warzones and at least 1 troll in Arena and as soon as the vote kick was eliminated the increase in indiscriminate AFKing became a massive issue, Vote Kick worked.

Here you are saying "vote kick never worked" and yet "vote kick was so easy to use it was abused".

which is it, did it never work or was it so easy to use it was abused constantly?

As always, you misrepresented what I’d previously said. You seem to do this in any argument you are losing. So I’m only going to reply one more time to clarify what myself & everyone else is telling you.

Vote kick never worked properly in War Zones because it required half the team to vote. Which is like herding cats in a pug match. Maybe if you were in a 4 man premade you could make it work because that was half your team. But trying to get pugs to do it was an act of futility. That’s why I only ever remember seeing it work once to remove an AFK player.

And yes, it was easy to use in Arena because half the team is 2 players. I’ve never said that it wasn’t. But that led to it being abused in Arena matches to troll people or to throw matches. That’s why the devs removed it. 

Vote kick was added so BW didn’t need to pay game moderators to police the game. It was a poor excuse of a system that was easily abused in ranked arena & didn’t do its job to remove AFK players or trolls in War Zones. Adding it back into the game would cause more problems than it would solve. You’d still have the same people AFKing in War Zones & people ignoring requests to vote kick them (so nothing would change there). But you open up the system to be abused in Arena matches again to troll people. Adding it back in would be bad for the game.

What they need to consider doing is adding an AI moderator system & allowing people to report players for AFKing & then let the system decide. That way people can’t abuse the vote kick in Arena & it’s more likely to remove  AFKers in Warzones. 

[Real_Zacious]

Vote kick was abused by trolls. People would be reported due to people not liking people instead of afk people or arena troll throwers.  Sure would love people to not abuse it.. but yeah... 

[Darkestmonty]

2 hours ago, Real_Zacious said:

Vote kick was abused by trolls. People would be reported due to people not liking people instead of afk people or arena troll throwers.  Sure would love people to not abuse it.. but yeah... 

it was nearly impossible to abuse in Warzones.  Expanding the radius for earning attacker/defender points fixed the only possible abuse against defenders who did not want to stand on the node to defend.

For arena, disable vote kick for dead players and the only exploit I read about for arena is fixed. Note I said read about because the few players I saw this happen to were players who would /stuck in both rounds while being toxic and complaining their team is throwing (ironic that the player using /stuck in both rounds was the one complaining about their team mates throwing games).

I can't remember a single time I was actually vote kicked excluding when I legitimately went AFK and came back kicked out of the match which was fair.

Edited February 7 by Darkestmonty

[Real_Zacious]

2 minutes ago, Darkestmonty said:

it was nearly impossible to abuse in Warzones.  Expanding the radius for earning attacker/defender points fixed the only possible abuse against defenders who did not want to stand on the node to defend.

For arena, disable vote kick for dead players and the only exploit I read about for arena is fixed. Note I said read about because the few players I saw this happen to were players who would /stuck in both rounds while being toxic and complaining their team is throwing (ironic that the player using /stuck in both rounds was the one complaining about their team throwing games).

Wasn't impossible it happened frequently when it was introduced.  Now of course if such a thing was added back obviously it would need to meet the requirements of afk people. Now far as a 3 kicks your out of a arena before match starts no. There was also some guilds not naming names in ranked arena who would do this for win trading.. js mate..

[Darkestmonty]

2 hours ago, TrixxieTriss said:

As always, you misrepresented what I’d previously said. You seem to do this in any argument you are losing. So I’m only going to reply one more time to clarify what myself & everyone else is telling you.

Vote kick never worked properly in War Zones because it required half the team to vote. Which is like herding cats in a pug match. Maybe if you were in a 4 man premade you could make it work because that was half your team. But trying to get pugs to do it was an act of futility. That’s why I only ever remember seeing it work once to remove an AFK player.

And yes, it was easy to use in Arena because half the team is 2 players. I’ve never said that it wasn’t. But that led to it being abused in Arena matches to troll people or to throw matches. That’s why the devs removed it. 

Vote kick was added so BW didn’t need to pay game moderators to police the game. It was a poor excuse of a system that was easily abused in ranked arena & didn’t do its job to remove AFK players or trolls in War Zones. Adding it back into the game would cause more problems than it would solve. You’d still have the same people AFKing in War Zones & people ignoring requests to vote kick them (so nothing would change there). But you open up the system to be abused in Arena matches again to troll people. Adding it back in would be bad for the game.

What they need to consider doing is adding an AI moderator system & allowing people to report players for AFKing & then let the system decide. That way people can’t abuse the vote kick in Arena & it’s more likely to remove  AFKers in Warzones. 

I vote kicked plenty of players in the 10 years it was active. All of whom were AFK.

sorry that you feel vote kick was a tool to be abused against anyone you didn't like in a warzone even if they were playing the game.

Edited February 8 by Darkestmonty