7.4 GTN Preview Live on PTS

[Darkestmonty]

11 minutes ago, TrixxieTriss said:

@JoeStramaglia I’m not sure if youre also following a similar thread to this one in the general section. But we have been discussing and debating the non-refundable listing fee for sellers.

 https://forums.swtor.com/topic/931789-coming-74-gtn-changes-on-the-pts/?do=findComment&comment=9783798

Most of us (not all) agree that having this non-refundable fee for items that don’t sell & time out is a huge mistake.

It will encourage people to stop selling or severely reduce the number of listings they put on the GTN. Which will create a situation on the GTN of demand outstripping supply. And when that happens you’ll create upwards inflation & prices will rise again. 

And while we agree that people canceling listings & relisting items to undercut other players is disruptive to the market. We also have a more elegant solution than your non-refundable fees on items, that won’t reduce competition & won’t hurt the market & will still have a deterrent to the behaviour you are trying to curb. 

Currently on the live system, the deposits that the seller pays to list an item are not refunded if they cancel a listing. The problem is those deposit fees aren’t currently high enough on live to deter that behaviour. So why not just apply your proposed fee amounts to the current deposit system? That way if someone cancels the listing, they aren’t refunded. But if an item fails to sell, the deposit amount is still refunded like it is now. 

This way players (especially crafters) won’t stop listing things on the GTN & you won’t accidentally trigger more inflation with your current non-refundable idea of no refunds of fees on items that don’t sell. 

You are worried about a posting fee which can be low as .008% of what you are selling an item for while saving 8% of that sale because you no longer pay GTN taxes (based on a 3 billion credit sale).

You can literally post and not sell an item for 18 years straight and still make more credits than selling that item with the current refundable fee and 8% GTN tax.

The only thing that seems a bit excessive in 7.4 are the buyers tax being 14.95% and deleting claims.

[TalLura]

35 minutes ago, TrixxieTriss said:

@JoeStramaglia I’m not sure if youre also following a similar thread to this one in the general section. But we have been discussing and debating the non-refundable listing fee for sellers.

 https://forums.swtor.com/topic/931789-coming-74-gtn-changes-on-the-pts/?do=findComment&comment=9783798

Most of us (not all) agree that having this non-refundable fee for items that don’t sell & time out is a huge mistake.

It will encourage people to stop selling or severely reduce the number of listings they put on the GTN. Which will create a situation on the GTN of demand outstripping supply. And when that happens you’ll create upwards inflation & prices will rise again. 

And while we agree that people canceling listings & relisting items to undercut other players is disruptive to the market. We also have a more elegant solution than your non-refundable fees on items, that won’t reduce competition & won’t hurt the market & will still have a deterrent to the behaviour you are trying to curb. 

Currently on the live system, the deposits that the seller pays to list an item are not refunded if they cancel a listing. The problem is those deposit fees aren’t currently high enough on live to deter that behaviour. So why not just apply your proposed fee amounts to the current deposit system? That way if someone cancels the listing, they aren’t refunded. But if an item fails to sell, the deposit amount is still refunded like it is now. 

This way players (especially crafters) won’t stop listing things on the GTN & you won’t accidentally trigger more inflation with your current non-refundable idea of no refunds of fees on items that don’t sell. 

i am a  crafter who sells dyes and crystals  (

some weeks i will sell all my listings. some i will sell none , the demand for crystals and dyes fluctuates  and even with a 7 day sell period its not going to be worth my time selling things that i know some weeks may not sell if im going to be loosing money doing so

[Darkestmonty]

1 hour ago, TalLura said:

i am a  crafter who sells dyes and crystals  (

some weeks i will sell all my listings. some i will sell none , the demand for crystals and dyes fluctuates  and even with a 7 day sell period its not going to be worth my time selling things that i know some weeks may not sell if im going to be loosing money doing so

lets say you sell (current price) a player made White and Light Gray Dye Module for 475,000 credits which is an increased from 350,000 from 2 days ago.

With the current 8% GTN tax you lose 38,000.

7.4 Posting fees for a 475,000 credit dye:

• 12 hours = 100 credits
• 1 day = 119 credits
• 2 days = 250 credits
• 3 days = 500 credits
• 7 days = 1188 credits

How long it will take you to continuously post that dye at 475,000 credits before the non-refundable fees cost you more than the current GTN with an 8% GTN tax

• 12 hours = 190 days
• 1 day = 319 days
• 2 days = 304 days
• 3 days = 228 days
• 7 days = 224 days

I know a lot of people here are worried buyers will say "hey, this dye was only 350,000 two days ago, I REFUSE TO PAY MORE THAN THAT!!" but most buyers won't know or care. It is common for any items price to fluctuate 20% to 30% and the one thing I have come to understand is very few buyers or sellers actually know the value of what they are selling. Most sellers undercut because that's all they know how to do and most buyers purchase the cheapest posting if they can afford it.

Sellers are not going to lose profit paying posting fees unless those sellers refuse to match the market value of an item and pick the proper posting time.

Edited November 4, 2023 by Darkestmonty

[TalLura]

1 minute ago, Darkestmonty said:

lets say you sell (current price) a player made White and Light Gray Dye Module for 475,000 credits which is an increased from 350,000 from 2 days ago.

With the current 8% GTN tax you lose 38,000.

Posting fees for a 475,000 credit dye:

• 12 hours = 100 credits
• 1 day = 119 credits
• 2 days = 250 credits
• 3 days = 500 credits
• 7 days = 1188 credits

How long it will take you to continuously post that dye at 475,000 credits before the non-refundable fees cost you more than the current GTN with an 8% GTN tax

• 12 hours = 190 days
• 1 day = 319 days
• 2 days = 304 days
• 3 days = 228 days
• 7 days = 224 days

I know a lot of people here are worried buyers will say "hey, this dye was only 350,000 two days ago, I REFUSE TO PAY MORE THAN THAT!!" but most buyers won't know or care. I track a lot of markets on every server and the one thing I have come to understand is very few buyers or sellers actually know the value of what they are selling. Most sellers undercut, most buyers buy pay the least amount posted. 

Sellers are not going to lose profit paying posting fees unless those sellers refuse to match the market value of an item and pick the proper posting time.

i think i got tax value and post fee value swapped in head 

[TrixxieTriss]

1 hour ago, Darkestmonty said:

You are worried about a posting fee which can be low as .008% of what you are selling an item for while saving 8% of that sale because you no longer pay GTN taxes (based on a 3 billion credit sale).

You can literally post and not sell an item for 18 years straight and still make more credits than selling that item with the current refundable fee and 8% GTN tax.

The only thing that seems a bit excessive in 7.4 are the buyers tax being 14.95% and deleting claims.

You’re entitled to your opinion. But so far you are the only one I’ve seen in either thread that continues to disagrees with the assessment that non-refundable listing fees for items that don’t sell will be detrimental to the GTN, inflation & therefore the game.

I think we’ve all heard you loud & clear in both threads now. Because you’ve made your position known repeatedly every time someone posts legitimate feedback disagreeing with the proposed non-refundable idea in its current format. 

So instead of derailing this thread too with back & forth arguing & you shouting down other people’s feedback, why don’t we just let @JoeStramaglia read everyone’s feedback & apply his own critical thinking & logic as to what will happen if it goes ahead in its current format. 

[Darkestmonty]

32 minutes ago, TrixxieTriss said:

You’re entitled to your opinion. But so far you are the only one I’ve seen in either thread that continues to disagrees with the assessment that non-refundable listing fees for items that don’t sell will be detrimental to the GTN, inflation & therefore the game.

I think we’ve all heard you loud & clear in both threads now. Because you’ve made your position known repeatedly every time someone posts legitimate feedback disagreeing with the proposed non-refundable idea in its current format. 

So instead of derailing this thread too with back & forth arguing & you shouting down other people’s feedback, why don’t we just let @JoeStramaglia read everyone’s feedback & apply his own critical thinking & logic as to what will happen if it goes ahead in its current format. 

I never denied you were allowed to have an opinion, just that, mathematically speaking, your opinion made no sense.

Edited November 4, 2023 by Darkestmonty

[TrixxieTriss]

3 minutes ago, TalLura said:

i think i got tax value and post fee value swapped in head 

Sure, but what happens when none of your items sell for the week? You will still lose large sums of credits on items you didn’t sell. That will still be a risk. So you’re original post is still relevant. 

[TalLura]

1 minute ago, TrixxieTriss said:

Sure, but what happens when none of your items sell for the week? You will still lose large sums of credits on items you didn’t sell. That will still be a risk. So you’re original post is still relevant. 

yea im still not happy with non refund for no sale.  

[Ominovin]

43 minutes ago, TalLura said:

i am a  crafter who sells dyes and crystals  (

some weeks i will sell all my listings. some i will sell none , the demand for crystals and dyes fluctuates  and even with a 7 day sell period its not going to be worth my time selling things that i know some weeks may not sell if im going to be loosing money doing so

Using 1 or 2 day listings, a '500k credit or cheaper' item will cost you a whole 5,250 credits to post for six weeks.

The cheapest dyes I'm seeing on the GTN at the moment are 40k,  With the reduce sale fees at the low end, you can keep this exact final price and make 936 additional credits, which literally covers your first week of posting fees all by itself.

• If it sells in under a week, you actually make a few more credits than before.
• If it sells in a week, you basically break even with the current system
• If it takes over a week, your profits will be slightly impacted, but if it takes 6 weeks you are still making a net 32,486 credits after posting fees instead of the current 36,800 credits, or about 11% less

The more expensive your item is (up to 500k at least), the better this actually works for you: 

• A 500k item can earn you 11.7k in additional profit, which is over 93 days of posting fees.
• Items in the 500k - 1MM range should hold even with this 93 days of posting fees (you are past the 'minimum posting fee' range, so everything should now scale at the same rate). 
  • A 1MM item will have twice the 'potential additional income' as a 500k item, but the listing fees are also doubled
• Past 1MM, the sale fees keep going up but your additional income will stop increasing, so the '93 days' will start to shrink
• Around 11MM, your 'potential additional income' becomes zero.
• Above 100MM, you are now hitting the maximum listing fee, which becomes less and less significant as item values goes up (Just like the minimum listing fee becomes more significant the cheaper the item is)
  • Six weeks of posting fees will cost around 1MM credits, or at most 1% of your item value)
  • For a 3B credit item, six weeks of posting fees is only 1/30th of 1 percent. of the item value.

[DeannaVoyager]

13 hours ago, LD_Little_Dragon said:

You can say that, but I don't see HOW removing seller names could possibly make things harder for gtn manipulators, as opposed to easier.

This combined with the 'must buy lowest priced item' is removing player choice.

When I buy I prefer skipping by multiple listings of the '1 credit below' type undercutters and buying from whoever actually started the current listing price.  (for example: an item listed for 5 million credits, and then 1 million credits, and then multiple listings of the same item for 999,999 credits, 999998 credits, 999997 credits ect.  I'll buy the 1 million credit listing.  It's ludicrous that the new GTN will force players to buy the 999,997 listing.

Also keep in mind that crafted items have 'made by' on them, which means you can currently tell if a seller is selling their own crafted item vs an item they may have bought low from the maker and relisted.  Removing the seller name takes away the player choice to buy from the actual crafter.

I'm clearing out my inventories on all my crafters right now, and have no intentions of using the GTN if it goes live as it currently is on the PTS.

I ran out of reactions for today, but I wanted to thank you for wording the things that I'm concerned about too so perfectly! 🏆

[Spikanor]

7 hours ago, TrixxieTriss said:

Most of us (not all) agree that having this non-refundable fee for items that don’t sell & time out is a huge mistake.

this is something i also wane know why there remove it since some items and most of then are gelactic season cartal market items you get from it sell not that great at all on the GTN.

speeder's / armor sets box and stronghold decorations from the cartal market boxen you get from the gelactic season track list's is something more i sell on the GTN since i not like then at all since there are most of the time's all cheap on the GTN.

so i hope @JoeStramaglia can explane it good why there remove the refundable fee from then GTN.

since thats more the nummber 1 question people have now.

Edited November 4, 2023 by Spikanor

[Darkestmonty]

8 hours ago, DeannaVoyager said:

I ran out of reactions for today, but I wanted to thank you for wording the things that I'm concerned about too so perfectly! 🏆

Does my using one character to craft items and another character to sell items make me a credit seller or market manipulator?

Here is my crafting set up.

I own multiple guilds for personal use

My Republic guild I use for crafting buffs

My Empire guild I use for combat buffs

My Republic characters are all crafters and gathers of ever type

My Empire characters are all Biochem for reusable meds to save me money during combat. You can probably guess I do most of my combat and raiding with my Empire toons.

I craft items like a factory setting up each Republic character to craft specific parts until I make the final products

I then take products I am selling and post them on the GTN using my 2-3 Empire characters. I sell only on specific characters for two reasons, organization and buyers are more apt to be Empire so it is easier to contact me if a buyer wants to set up an order.

I learned a long time ago keeping organized and only selling on specific characters helps with tracking sales and is faster than posting the same items with what ever crafter finished the final product.

If the crafter stamp does not match the sellers name that isn't a guarantee of anything more than they are two different characters. I'm a solo player, in real guilds with multiple players this type of factory level crafting can happen in real time across multiple accounts.

Edited November 4, 2023 by Darkestmonty

[ElZaguero]

12 hours ago, TrixxieTriss said:

You’re entitled to your opinion. But so far you are the only one I’ve seen in either thread that continues to disagrees with the assessment that non-refundable listing fees for items that don’t sell will be detrimental to the GTN, inflation & therefore the game.

I think we’ve all heard you loud & clear in both threads now. Because you’ve made your position known repeatedly every time someone posts legitimate feedback disagreeing with the proposed non-refundable idea in its current format. 

So instead of derailing this thread too with back & forth arguing & you shouting down other people’s feedback, why don’t we just let @JoeStramaglia read everyone’s feedback & apply his own critical thinking & logic as to what will happen if it goes ahead in its current format. 

Thank you for stating so well the concerns that I share but struggle to articulate.

[ShadowyKai]

There have been quite a few comments saying that sellers will make more money under the new GTN system because the amount of credits you lose from the nonrefundable listing fees is small compared to the amount of money you gain from the elimination of the 8% transaction fee on the final sale price.

The problem is that that only works if you do eventually sell the item. If the item never sells, then all you will do by listing it is lose credits.

It seems to me that the people defending the new GTN system are approaching it like this :

"Well, yes, I have lost money so far, but don't worry, I'll get it all back once I do succeed."

You know, casinos just love people like you.

I believe that what's going to happen under the new system, for the most part, will be this ...

A typical player, one who prefers to spend their hours playing the game instead of playing the GTN, will put items up on the GTN, but because of undercutters, the items won't sell.

If the player broke even on the listings (which is what would happen under the current system), they might shrug it off ... but if they actually lose money on the unsuccessful listings, that's going to stick in their craw.

They might try reducing their prices, but they'll probably run into the same undercutting problem again.

I think that eventually, a typical player will just give up trying to sell the items on the GTN. Under the current system, all you lose from an unsuccessful listing is your time, and I've already seen players give up on the GTN for that alone. If they lost money in addition to expending their time fruitlessly, they would have given up even faster.

And that kind of bad experience is going to discourage them from ever trying to sell items on the GTN again.

Edited November 4, 2023 by ShadowyKai

[Ominovin]

8 hours ago, Spikanor said:

this is something i also wane know why there remove it since some items and most of then are gelactic season cartal market items you get from it sell not that great at all on the GTN.

speeder's / armor sets box and stronghold decorations from the cartal market boxen you get from the gelactic season track list's is something more i sell on the GTN since i not like then at all since there are most of the time's all cheap on the GTN.

so i hope @JoeStramaglia can explane it good why there remove the refundable fee from then GTN.

since thats more the nummber 1 question people have now.

While I obviously can't speak for @JoeStramaglia , I can tell you that the current refundable fee is basically nonsense:  It's really just a 'prepaid cancellation fee deposit' since you get the funds back in every other circumstance.

Changing to a non-refundable fee presumably encourages players to

• not flood the market with pages of the same item, and
• price their items competitively as they now have 'skin in the game' as it were...

Honestly, the listing fee changes generally seems to be more of a psychological issue (folks like the 'zero-risk' market) than a financial issue, as the actual cost is fairly low most of the time:

Listing Period		Minimum Fee		Maximum Fee		Six Week Posting Cost
Days	Rate	Credits	Listing Price	Credits	Listing Price	# of Postings	Minimum Fee	In Range	Maximum Fee
0.50	0.010%	100	1,000,000	10,000	100,000,000	84	8,400	0.840%	840,000
1.00	0.025%	125	500,000	25,000	100,000,000	42	5,250	1.050%	1,050,000
2.00	0.050%	250	500,000	50,000	100,000,000	21	5,250	1.050%	1,050,000
3.00	0.100%	500	500,000	100,000	100,000,000	14	7,000	1.400%	1,400,000
7.00	0.250%	1,000	400,000	250,000	100,000,000	6	6,000	1.500%	1,500,000

Using 1 or 2 day listing periods:

• For Items 500k or less, it will cost you 5,250 credits to post for six weeks
  • For a 100k item, this is roughly 5% of your item value.
  • For a 10k item, this is roughly 53% of your item value.
• For items 500k thru 100MM, it will cost you about 1% of your item value to post it for six weeks
• For items over 100MM, it will cost you about 1MM credits to post it for a six weeks
  • For a 100MM item, this is about 1% of your item value
  • For a 3B item, this is roughly 1/30th of 1% of your item value

Personally, I think the 'minimum listing fees' are probably a little high:  Reducing them by a factor of 10 (to 10, 12, 25, 50, and 100 credits respectively) would probably help the extreme low-end of the market significantly...

Edited November 4, 2023 by Ominovin

[Toraak]

12 minutes ago, ShadowyKai said:

There have been quite a few comments saying that sellers will make more money under the new GTN system because the amount of credits you lose from the nonrefundable listing fees is small compared to the amount of money you gain from the elimination of the 8% transaction fee on the final sale price.

The problem is that that only works if you do eventually sell the item. If the item never sells, then all you will do by listing it is lose credits.

It seems to me that the people defending the new GTN system are approaching it like this :

"Well, yes, I have lost money so far, but don't worry, I'll get it all back once I do succeed."

You know, casinos just love people like you.

I believe that what's going to happen under the new system, for the most part, will be this ...

A typical player, one who prefers to spend their hours playing the game instead of playing the GTN, will put items up on the GTN, but because of undercutters, the items won't sell.

If the player broke even on the listings (which is what would happen under the current system), they might shrug it off ... but if they actually lose money on the unsuccessful listings, that's going to stick in their craw.

They might try reducing their prices, but they'll probably run into the same undercutting problem again.

I think that eventually, a typical player will just give up trying to sell the items on the GTN. Under the current system, all you lose from an unsuccessful listing is your time, and I've already seen players give up on the GTN for that alone. If they lost money in addition to expending their time fruitlessly, they would have given up even faster.

And that kind of bad experience is going to discourage them from ever trying to sell items on the GTN again.

This is basically where I am. For me it has less to do with the non refundable fee as much as the fact the lowest prices will be the ones that are being seen by the buyers. I am already expecting I will completely stop wasting my time on the GTN because I expect it to be non stop undercutting war by sellers so people see that particular sellers items. The non refundable cost is just an additional reason why those that don't play the game strictly for the GTN will just spend less and less time selling anything on it.

Edited November 4, 2023 by Toraak

[DWho]

6 minutes ago, Toraak said:

the fact the lowest prices will be the ones that are being seen by the buyers.

This is really the only problem with the changes. What should be done is all items from the same seller should be grouped by their price so that only 1 line shows up for that seller/price combination (or maybe just one entry for each seller of the item - that being their lowest cost one). What is a "reasonable" price for a crafted item (and we are really only talking about crafted items here since the CM items are in such low supply that the fee compared to the price is meaningless) varies a lot from person to person. If I have a massive supply of mats collected over many years of playing all aspects of the game normally (as opposed to dedicated farming or buying the mats) my "reasonable price" is going to be much lower than for the person who only plays GSF, for example, and had to buy all the mats to make the things they want to sell.

The non-refundable fee is fine (and is generally insignificant compared to the selling price of the item), and is where it should have been in the first place to discourage people from listing dozens of non-stackable items to "flood" the market to push people off the first page of the item listing (undercutting by 1 credit for example).

The only other concern, though only a small concern, I have is about the buyer fee. They should just increase the maximum "tax" on the seller side to increase the removal of credits rather than have a system where it's not clear to the buyer or the seller what the "real" price of the item is.

[Spikanor]

22 minutes ago, Ominovin said:

While I obviously can't speak for @JoeStramaglia , I can tell you that the current refundable fee is basically nonsense:  It's really just a 'prepaid cancellation fee deposit' since you get the funds back in every other circumstance.

Changing to a non-refundable fee presumably encourages players to

• not flood the market with pages of the same item, and
• price their items competitively as they now have 'skin in the game' as it were...

Honestly, the listing fee changes generally seems to be more of a psychological issue (folks like the 'zero-risk' market) than a financial issue, as the actual cost is fairly low most of the time:

Listing Period		Minimum Fee		Maximum Fee		Six Week Posting Cost
Days	Rate	Credits	Listing Price	Credits	Listing Price	# of Postings	Minimum Fee	In Range	Maximum Fee
0.50	0.010%	100	1,000,000	10,000	100,000,000	84	8,400	0.840%	840,000
1.00	0.025%	125	500,000	25,000	100,000,000	42	5,250	1.050%	1,050,000
2.00	0.050%	250	500,000	50,000	100,000,000	21	5,250	1.050%	1,050,000
3.00	0.100%	500	500,000	100,000	100,000,000	14	7,000	1.400%	1,400,000
7.00	0.250%	1,000	400,000	250,000	100,000,000	6	6,000	1.500%	1,500,000

Using 1 or 2 day listing periods:

• For Items 500k or less, it will cost you 5,250 credits to post for six weeks
  • For a 100k item, this is roughly 5% of your item value.
  • For a 10k item, this is roughly 53% of your item value.
• For items 500k thru 100MM, it will cost you about 1% of your item value to post it for six weeks
• For items over 100MM, it will cost you about 1MM credits to post it for a six weeks
  • For a 100MM item, this is about 1% of your item value
  • For a 3B item, this is roughly 1/30th of 1% of your item value

Personally, I think the 'minimum listing fees' are probably a little high:  Reducing them by a factor of 10 (to 10, 12, 25, 50, and 100 credits respectively) would probably help the extreme low-end of the market significantly...

i know you have put effort in this to explane it good to understand but i really suxs hard in math so i have still no clue at all still.

but there are also easy way's to explane things without using math stuff.

 

the point i wane know more and i think a lot also why remove the sellers fee if items not get sold when the sell time limit runs out like we have now.

since its hard to tell that items will sell in the first time limit and that people will not put then on the GTN anymore since there not wane risk it.

cartal market stuff and most of all crap cartal market stuff you get from the gelactic seasons are perfect exemple from stuff that needs some time to get sold since people are not going to buy crapy speeder's or crapy armor sets or buy decorations or crapy weapons that are stuff that need a lot of time before somebody maybe is going to buy then so thats why the sellers fee you get back if the item is not sold is a good part still and is wrong to remove it.

Edited November 4, 2023 by Spikanor

[KianSri]

On 11/3/2023 at 5:05 PM, TalLura said:

I have started buying of the bracers that look like silver spiral bracelet along with other lving gear that i like using in outfits. stocking up for alts and future chars

Same here, I'm grabbing what I can now. It's not a great feeling that I feel pressured to try and stuff my cargo bay with things I may or may not want, just because they won't be readily available down the line for when the decision actually arises. At least there was a heads-up, anyway.

[Tsukuri]

@JoeStramaglia Hi Joe, thanks for answering people's questions.

Quote

Claiming

• You have a limit on purchases of 10 Buy Slots. Buy slots can be increased as necessary up to a maximum of 50.
• Sale Slots are the same as our current slots. These can be increased to 100.
• Slots become used when you create a listing or make a purchase.
• Slots become available again after you claim all of the associated credits and items within that slot.
• There is still a 60 day time limit to claim the item, make sure you claim your items!

 

Are you aware of the bug issue that affects some people's max number of GTN Sales Slots?

I have the maximum number of Account-wide unlocks, but as a Subscriber I can only sell 70 of the maximum 100 items. I even tried to apply Account-wide unlocks again, but the item is greyed out in my inventory and won't apply on Live.

Taking a look at this on PTS, the item is greyed out there as well.

Cartel Market unlocks don't carryover to PTS. So it it should appear highlighted in the inventory. But it doesn't, suggesting this item isn't working properly.

 

[Tsukuri]

Quote

Some general questions to answer in your feedback:

• Is there any functionality of the existing system that you don’t see in the new system that you would prefer we preserve?
• What do you like about the new system? What do you dislike?
• Are there any specific filters, searches, or ways of finding items that you wish existed?
• Do you have any concerns with how the new system feels to use?

Initial Feedback

The new GTN interface has a nice appearance, and reducing the pages of listings will be welcomed by many, many people.

I have the same concerns about the seller and crafter names not being listed as is already posted in this thread, but understand the likely reasons for these decisions.

One side effect of this change is that you can buy your own item! On Live this doesn't happen, because the buy option is grayed out for your own listing.

There's a timer for pickup in the claim window. What happens if the 3h elapses and the item isn't picked up? If a person makes one or more purchases and then something comes up or is disconnected for hours, etc.? Why should the individual be penalized? This can be a disability issue as well, since people get low on blood sugar, have seizures, etc.

Whatever the case, there's nothing to indicate what this timer is for. Buyer's remorse? Maximum time for pickup? The exclamation point next to it may either give cause for concern or be interpreted as a "new" purchase similar to the cartel market stash. Hover details could help here.

I'm going to miss the joy of selecting all mail to claim my credits. Can a similar feature be added to the Claim Window?

Listing and buying items won't feel as "quick" as previously, given the added taxes and data. For instance, a seller won't be able to take for granted that the intended listing price is FTP/Preferred friendly, and will have to eyeball the Buyer Tax instead.

When listing an item "Total Profit" is listed, but this potential gain will not be realized if a Sale is not made! So it feels a little misleading.

Also, it'd be nice if when you enter text into a search field, both available and unavailable items were listed, with the option to filter out. This might be a useful feature to implement for the Buy Order phase of development. It could work like what is seen in Collections. People won't know they "need" something until they see it!

The magnifier glass icon for viewing feature is a nice touch.

Have filter categories been introduced yet? Right now you can type something like armor in the field and show a result in weapons, for instance.

Honestly, the buyer's tax and cancel/relist fee instead of a deposit isn't going to go over well. But nice job putting this enormous task together.

[Darkestmonty]

11 hours ago, Tsukuri said:

Initial Feedback

The new GTN interface has a nice appearance, and reducing the pages of listings will be welcomed by many, many people.

I have the same concerns about the seller and crafter names not being listed as is already posted in this thread, but understand the likely reasons for these decisions.

One side effect of this change is that you can buy your own item! On Live this doesn't happen, because the buy option is grayed out for your own listing.

There's a timer for pickup in the claim window. What happens if the 3h elapses and the item isn't picked up? If a person makes one or more purchases and then something comes up or is disconnected for hours, etc.? Why should the individual be penalized? This can be a disability issue as well, since people get low on blood sugar, have seizures, etc.

Whatever the case, there's nothing to indicate what this timer is for. Buyer's remorse? Maximum time for pickup? The exclamation point next to it may either give cause for concern or be interpreted as a "new" purchase similar to the cartel market stash. Hover details could help here.

I'm going to miss the joy of selecting all mail to claim my credits. Can a similar feature be added to the Claim Window?

Listing and buying items won't feel as "quick" as previously, given the added taxes and data. For instance, a seller won't be able to take for granted that the intended listing price is FTP/Preferred friendly, and will have to eyeball the Buyer Tax instead.

When listing an item "Total Profit" is listed, but this potential gain will not be realized if a Sale is not made! So it feels a little misleading.

Also, it'd be nice if when you enter text into a search field, both available and unavailable items were listed, with the option to filter out. This might be a useful feature to implement for the Buy Order phase of development. It could work like what is seen in Collections. People won't know they "need" something until they see it!

The magnifier glass icon for viewing feature is a nice touch.

Have filter categories been introduced yet? Right now you can type something like armor in the field and show a result in weapons, for instance.

Honestly, the buyer's tax and cancel/relist fee instead of a deposit isn't going to go over well. But nice job putting this enormous task together.

Buying your own item helped with testing the GTN instead of waiting for a random person to buy. Whether bug or intentional, this was a great feature for the GTN on the PTS. I hope they block this on live or we are going to see a lot of price manipulation. This can currently be done with two accounts but it will still take more resources than most players will dedicate to the game.

Sellers could use two fields for selling items. "Price" and "Price with Taxes". The "Price" field works as it currently does, the "Price with Taxes" is the total amount we want to charge with taxes already included. This will eliminate players from guessing or pulling out a calculator trying to set a specific price.

Edited November 5, 2023 by Darkestmonty

[TrixxieTriss]

14 minutes ago, Darkestmonty said:

Buying your own item helped with testing the GTN instead of waiting for a random person to buy. Whether bug or intentional, this was a great feature for the GTN on the PTS. I hope they block this on live or we are going to see a lot of price manipulation. This can currently be done with two accounts but it will still take more resources than most players will dedicate to the game.

Sellers could use two fields for selling items. "Price" and "Price with Taxes". The "Price" field works as it currently does, the "Price with Taxes" is the total amount we want to charge with taxes already included. This will eliminate players from guessing or pulling out a calculator trying to set a specific price.

I hope they block it on live so people don’t accidentally buy their own stuff. I highly doubt it would be used as a method to manipulate the market because as a seller you’d already be paying listing fees & as a buyer, you’d be paying tax. Trying to manipulate the market buying your own stuff would be nonsensical in the extreme. 

[Darkestmonty]

11 minutes ago, TrixxieTriss said:

I hope they block it on live so people don’t accidentally buy their own stuff. I highly doubt it would be used as a method to manipulate the market because as a seller you’d already be paying listing fees & as a buyer, you’d be paying tax. Trying to manipulate the market buying your own stuff would be nonsensical in the extreme. 

Not if you lower the suggested GTN price of items because you posted and bought your own items at price well below market value. Currently you need at least two accounts to manipulate the market like this on live.

Once you have lowered the suggested selling price, most people will continue to use that lower price to post their items which you can turn around and buy.

Edited November 5, 2023 by Darkestmonty

[Spikanor]

23 minutes ago, TrixxieTriss said:

I hope they block it on live so people don’t accidentally buy their own stuff.

i really think there not going to forget it to block it since if there not do that on the live servers then the level of mess up has become really low then to forget something simple like that.