7.4 GTN Preview Live on PTS

[TheRandomno]

48 minutes ago, Darkestmonty said:

currently the buyer only pays taxes when using the trade window while the seller pays the taxes when using the GTN and the trade window.

After the update the buyer will be paying a scalable tax up to 14.95% while the seller only pays the posting fee.

Note: I have no idea if the trade window taxes are changing in 7.4

Could you explain how the seller pays the tax using the GTN? Like I said, on the live game, if a buyer pays 1 bil for an item on the GTN, 80 million of the buyer's money gets eaten by the game.

[Darkestmonty]

6 minutes ago, TheRandomno said:

Could you explain how the seller pays the tax using the GTN? Like I said, on the live game, if a buyer pays 1 bil for an item on the GTN, 80 million of the buyer's money gets eaten by the game.

in 7.4 the seller only has to worry about paying the non-refundable posting fee. The seller will post an item for 3 billion credits and pay the non-refundable posting fee. The buyer will see the price as 3,433,099,984 credits. The extra 433,099,984 are the new taxes the buyer pays.

Edited October 28, 2023 by Darkestmonty

[Spikanor]

1 hour ago, TrixxieTriss said:

Which I believe are going to back fire & it will drive players away from the GTN, which will directly impact their Cartel Market direct sales income & cause them to lose actual money.

its not only the cartal market there destory on there own with it but also the gelactic seasons there destory more with it.

since not forget that the gelactic seasons give also cartal market items and most players sell then since there not wane use then since there not like the item there got so this is also has impact in the gelactic seasons track list.

 

and i have also a question more about the 7 day's sell limit fee.

what about other stuff like craft dye's or craft armor piece's and craft materials on the gtn will the fee then also be high for stuff like that?

[DeannaVoyager]

13 hours ago, JoeStramaglia said:

Buying

• Seller’s names are now obfuscated from the sale. This is largely due to the amount of information in the new listing page.
• You will see many listings at the various prices here. There’s a limit though if the item is listed at many different price points you will only see the first 20.
• You’ll always get the best available listing when you click purchase.
• Sometimes while you're placing an order, new items might be posted for sale or items you're considering might be purchased.
• When this happens, you will get as much of the sale as possible at whatever the best price is for that sale.
• If there’s not enough items to cover the sale, you will be refunded the difference.
• If you overpay due to a new lower price, you will be refunded.

 

 

4 hours ago, TrixxieTriss said:

I have a concern about not showing the sellers name.
In the past there have been people who’ve found loopholes in the CM & ways to trick it into giving too many items. Aka, Black/Black dyes 

The only way this was discovered was players like me who saw the amount of dyes certain named players on the GTN were listing. If we can’t see the sellers names, how will we report anyone suspected of gaming the CM or GTN systems? 

There are also certain Mega rich sellers who game the GTN system & trick other sellers into price wars to lower the price. Then when the price has dropped enough, they buy all the items cheap & relist them much higher.
So when I see certain names doing this, I stop listing on the GTN & I never buy from those people because I don’t want to support this type of predatory trading. Hiding those names will not improve the GTN, it will make it worse. 

Please make sure players names remain visible for the reasons I listed above. 

 

I have the same concern.

I've already accepted that I can't sell anything through GTN anymore after 7.4 because of the undercutters who spend their life playing GTN. That's fine by me, I don't need the credits, I'm maxxed with those anyhow. However I was hoping I could still use GTN for buying stuff, but I don't want to accidentally support credit sellers, instant undercutters and people I just don't like.  If I can't see the seller's name, I rather not buy at all than risk buying from people I loathe. Please, find a way to keep the seller's name visible. 

 

 

[Lord_Malganus]

2 hours ago, TrixxieTriss said:

They are adding too many ideas & radical changes to the way the market works. Which I believe are going to back fire & it will drive players away from the GTN, which will directly impact their Cartel Market direct sales income & cause them to lose actual money. 

 

Makes sense.

[Whykara]

2 hours ago, Darkestmonty said:

charging buyers nearly 15% is insane.

I agree. Scaling the buyer's fee is fine, because this way rich players are taxed more than poor ones. People complained about the indiscriminate taxation with the qt change for example. But 15% is too high. Why not have it start at 4% and cap at 12% (effective rate ~10%)? This way high value trades would still be taxed more than they currently are, without being unreasonable. Please consider making adjustments to the buyer's fees. 

[DeannaVoyager]

4 hours ago, TrixxieTriss said:

Either have sellers fees or have buyers fees. You don’t need both & the sellers fees should be mostly refundable or sellers will stop listing on the GTN. Which will only push up inflationary pressures with less items being listed. Demand will completely outstrip supply. 

They are adding too many ideas & radical changes to the way the market works. Which I believe are going to back fire & it will drive players away from the GTN, which will directly impact their Cartel Market direct sales income & cause them to lose actual money. 

 

Come to think of it, it might be intentional: if enough people stop selling in GTN, buyers will have to get their space barbie items directly from CM instead.

 

[black_pyros]

Since preferred players can now post on forums it would be nice to allow them to access PTS, too (with access to full subscription benefits to PTS only) to help with testing. I never understood the logic behind the need to pay you real money, to help you test stuff. It's completely backwards.

[TrixxieTriss]

1 hour ago, DeannaVoyager said:

 

Come to think of it, it might be intentional: if enough people stop selling in GTN, buyers will have to get their space barbie items directly from CM instead.

 

But a lot of the sales they are currently getting are from whales trying to convert CM items to credits. So those CC buyers will disappear quickly if they can’t convert CC’s to credits in a predictable manner.

And just because CM items start to diminish on the GTN, doesn’t mean other players all of a sudden have the extra disposable funds to buy CC’s directly. Sure they might get a few who do, but they’ll be losing most of their whales over it. 

[TrixxieTriss]

30 minutes ago, black_pyros said:

Since preferred players can now post on forums it would be nice to allow them to access PTS, too (with access to full subscription benefits to PTS only) to help with testing. I never understood the logic behind the need to pay you real money, to help you test stuff. It's completely backwards.

Actually preferred can’t post anymore. Not for about 4-5 weeks. They closed that loophole 😞

But I do agree. They should give everyone access to the PTS & posting on the PTS forum because the more testers, the better. 

[schwigi]

I have mixed feelings about some GTN changes.

First of all I dislike that a fee is added to the listed price. That has probably something to do with being from Europe. In European stores the prices tags have to include tax, in US stores the tax is added on checkout only.

From a pure buyers perspective I clearly prefer the fee included in the listed price. From a sellers perspective I find this fee model annoying as well. As a seller I want to know how much the buyer will pay and how much I will get from it. This has nothing to do with how high the fee is.

I am not really buying or selling bulk items on the GTN at the moment, but I agree with some earlier posters that there might be an extreme undercutting from mass crafters and new players will have little to no chance to sell mats for example. From a buyers perspective though this is a dream come true. Finally you can buy only the amount you want. Does this remove the possibility for sellers to give a "discount" on bulk sales? This is what you can do know by selling single items more expansive at the moment.

I like the idea if having a minimum, maximum and median sales price available. 

[dinowoman]

8 hours ago, TrixxieTriss said:

I have a concern about not showing the sellers name.
In the past there have been people who’ve found loopholes in the CM & ways to trick it into giving too many items. Aka, Black/Black dyes 

The only way this was discovered was players like me who saw the amount of dyes certain named players on the GTN were listing. If we can’t see the sellers names, how will we report anyone suspected of gaming the CM or GTN systems? 

There are also certain Mega rich sellers who game the GTN system & trick other sellers into price wars to lower the price. Then when the price has dropped enough, they buy all the items cheap & relist them much higher.
So when I see certain names doing this, I stop listing on the GTN & I never buy from those people because I don’t want to support this type of predatory trading. Hiding those names will not improve the GTN, it will make it worse. 

Please make sure players names remain visible for the reasons I listed above. 

This exactly.

In addition, while it's a far smaller issue, our guild has always had a policy that members are only allowed to take items from the guild bank for personal use. Selling them on the GTN is forbidden because it deprives other members, who might need the items, for the sake of personal profit. In the past, if we have suspected that a member might be selling items we have checked the GTN listings to see if any were listed by that member, but now this won't be possible.

Obviously it's not possible to display sellers' names in the general listings, but is there really no way to show the seller's name when clicking the item/credit button to display individual listings?

[arunav]

6 hours ago, TrixxieTriss said:

They really need to do a financial risk assessment on this before pushing it live. 

The same could have applied to almost every major system change in 7.x. 

Here comes the one that takes a trading system that, while not perfect, has functioned well for nearly 12 years, and, instead of adding a few new options into it, decides to flip the table on what a trading system in SWTOR is. Some subscribers who spend a lot of time trading are going to leave now too. 

[Lord_Malganus]

33 minutes ago, arunav said:

The same could have applied to almost every major system change in 7.x. 

Here comes the one that takes a trading system that, while not perfect, has functioned well for nearly 12 years, and, instead of adding a few new options into it, decides to flip the table on what a trading system in SWTOR is. Some subscribers who spend a lot of time trading are going to leave now too. 

The truth keeps coming back to the facts keep stacking up.

[Darcmoon]

19 hours ago, JoeStramaglia said:

Fees:

• A buyer’s fee is added to the purchase price. This means the amount you put into the unit price is the amount you will receive.
• The buyer’s fee is dependent on the unit price and is progressive starting at 6% (lower than current) but scaling up from there. Below is a chart that lays out the rates:

 

A question about this.  When someone looks at what an item costs on the GTN, will it list the sale price and the fee?   If it is a no, then you will quickly have prices try to creep up again.  The seller will see that the item he is trying to sell is going for, say 114,900 credits and will probably list his at the same price or just under that and the buyers fee will make the end price greater than that.  I know I wouldn’t want to spend a long time putting in different prices and checking the buyers fee to make sure I was under or at the others prices. That will not help to get items priced at reasonable amounts like the sellers fee is saying it is for.  
 

Additionally, if the buyers fee is included in the equation the GTN uses to determine the median price or the amount it says it has sold for recently, then sellers will be prompted by the game to sell items for an excessive and increasing amount.  

Edited October 28, 2023 by Darcmoon

[Estelindis]

17 hours ago, Darcmoon said:

could we please get the ability to first later our cartel items that are already in collections?  It’s irritating trying to look at stuff on the GTN and have page after page of items I’ve already gotten but needing to look at the all for the ones I don’t have. 

Seconded.  It would be incredibly useful to be able to filter all items by collection status, instead of having to individually search for each uncollected item.

[Darkestmonty]

2 hours ago, Darcmoon said:

A question about this.  When someone looks at what an item costs on the GTN, will it list the sale price and the fee?   If it is a no, then you will quickly have prices try to creep up again.  The seller will see that the item he is trying to sell is going for, say 114,900 credits and will probably list his at the same price or just under that and the buyers fee will make the end price greater than that.  I know I wouldn’t want to spend a long time putting in different prices and checking the buyers fee to make sure I was under or at the others prices. That will not help to get items priced at reasonable amounts like the sellers fee is saying it is for.  
 

Additionally, if the buyers fee is included in the equation the GTN uses to determine the median price or the amount it says it has sold for recently, then sellers will be prompted by the game to sell items for an excessive and increasing amount.  

Taxes are included and shown in the total price to anyone looking at an item.

[Darcmoon]

19 minutes ago, Darkestmonty said:

Taxes are included and shown in the total price to anyone looking at an item.

But does it just show the price after the buyers fee or both?

[MadDutchman]

I like a lot of what I'm seeing here, but a couple points I'm definitely not happy with are the 30 day time limit on claims. which I find very irritating. It'd be like Paypal vanishing your money on your account from a payment if you don't withdraw it. 

I will also join the choir saying removing items before adding them to the game somewhere else is not good. Please make sure they have been added to the game (simple vendor should do, another good way to drain credits)

[black_pyros]

7 hours ago, TrixxieTriss said:

Actually preferred can’t post anymore. Not for about 4-5 weeks. They closed that loophole 😞

I am preferred for more than 4 months already and still can post.

[Darkestmonty]

3 hours ago, Darcmoon said:

But does it just show the price after the buyers fee or both?

it shows one price, that price has the taxes already included.

A 3 billion credit item, the max price an item can be, shows up as costing 3,433,099,984 credits because taxes are already included in the 3 billion price the seller listed.

Edited October 28, 2023 by Darkestmonty

[Darcmoon]

1 hour ago, Darkestmonty said:

it shows one price, that price has the taxes already included.

A 3 billion credit item, the max price an item can be, shows up as costing 3,433,099,984 credits because taxes are already included in the 3 billion price the seller listed.

Then the issue I mentioned is a distinct possibility.  If I want to sell an item and when I look at the GTN it shows a price of 513,210 credits most people will post theirs at that price or just under that but then with tax it will end up more than the one we looked at.  Also, if that price with tax is the number used for the median price, the lowest or the recent prices that the GTN shows us that will cause people to price it higher and higher. 

[elimatorxv]

wow this will kill off the buyers section regarding gtn, oh well another bad decision by bioware. what else is new

[Darkestmonty]

39 minutes ago, Darcmoon said:

Then the issue I mentioned is a distinct possibility.  If I want to sell an item and when I look at the GTN it shows a price of 513,210 credits most people will post theirs at that price or just under that but then with tax it will end up more than the one we looked at.  Also, if that price with tax is the number used for the median price, the lowest or the recent prices that the GTN shows us that will cause people to price it higher and higher. 

People will have to find an app or calculate GTN taxes themselves to slightly undercut by a few credits. In a way this may stop all the 1 credit undercutters.

[Darcmoon]

7 minutes ago, Darkestmonty said:

People will have to find an app or calculate GTN taxes themselves to slightly undercut by a few credits. In a way this may stop all the 1 credit undercutters.

On the whole, most probably won’t find an app or do the necessary calculations.