Scoundrels/Operatives ridculously OP.

[Floored]

Ill agree with one thing i was expecting the Stun cycle to be similar to wow, in the sense of you being stunned then your next stun time would be lessened... here its a perfect example why wow did that.. because its chaos....

 

If ive got it right one Stun can be interrupted by damage and the other can't

 

the kick stun is a 45 sec CD so weather or not your gonna argue over weather or not thats a big deal is down to build potential..

 

Personally the scoundrel/operative is the only class that should be allow to stealth...

 

 

 

Second the cover barrier should be given to troopers not snipers...

 

It took that game roughly 3-4 years for them to change it.

 

BW is trying something new (other-wise you'd claim it to be WoW in space). You can't give them more than 2 weeks to see if it's really working as intended? Sheesh.

[Mobiwang]

Another fun fact - Operative needs to travel to target in stealth. You move slower in stealth. More travel time. Less damage. Meanwhile a Sorcerer is standing up high on the platform and dropping Death Fieldss and chain lightnings out on people. Heck, take Affliction, it's an instant DoT, no cooldown, does about 3k-4k damage over 18 seconds? Just put one on every enemy in a 30 meter radius, and watch that damage counter go.

 

One thing I will grant you - an Operative can put the damage into a focal point where it matters. He can jump and kill a ball carrier, for example. Or a single guard at a turret. But those AoE-capable classes can create a health deficit that no healer can hope to recover from.

 

Point 1: Ops get a 15% move speed talent that counteracts the 15% reduction of stealth. Combine that with sprint (since you arent going to hit them til they are on top of you) and you make a moot point.

 

Point 2: Taking down a healer in 3 seconds > taking down the life of 4 people with a healer trying to heal through it.

[Zothar]

Yes, take away their damage and then remove the class from the game. Or maybe the OP needs to have a nice cup of **** and l2p?

[JediMasterShake]

They will be nerfed. They are indeed overpowered. This is a fact. Just be patient.

[Fentz]

Point 1: Ops get a 15% move speed talent that counteracts the 15% reduction of stealth. Combine that with sprint (since you arent going to hit them til they are on top of you) and you make a moot point.

 

Point 2: Taking down a healer in 3 seconds > taking down the life of 4 people with a healer trying to heal through it.

 

the talent and sprint doesn't stack.

 

but anyway, operative/scoundrel dmg is so high cuz they don't have anything, they don't have any gap closer etc, they have a slow and cc (which everyone else have too)

Edited December 30, 2011 by Fentz

[Hayemaker]

It took that game roughly 3-4 years for them to change it.

 

BW is trying something new (other-wise you'd claim it to be WoW in space). You can't give them more than 2 weeks to see if it's really working as intended? Sheesh.

 

Don't think anyone is suggesting it wasn't worth trying.

 

People are suggesting it isn't working as intended and should be changed.

[bheta]

Just had almost the exact same scenario happen again.

 

This time the scoundrel cc'ed me from stealth. So I couldnt do anything while he then destroyed one guy and then destroyed me afterwards.

 

This is so blatantly OP that anyone who claims otherwise should rethink their motives for doing so.

 

what class are you?

[Mobiwang]

the talent and sprint doesn't stack.

 

but anyway, operative/scoundrel dmg is so high cuz they don't have anything, they don't have any gap closer etc, they have a slow and cc (which everyone else have too)

 

I know they don't stack. I was just saying that they aren't penalized for being in stealth. And they still get sprint (>100% run speed when out of combat).

 

We're not saying that they don't need it, we're just saying that its rather gamebreaking in (unorganized) pvp.

[Sabbathius]

Point 1: Ops get a 15% move speed talent that counteracts the 15% reduction of stealth. Combine that with sprint (since you arent going to hit them til they are on top of you) and you make a moot point.

 

I don't believe so.

 

The talent increasing 15% movement works only out of combat. It does not stack with Sprint, which works only out of combat. It does not stack with mount. You can test it if you want, but from my observations that's how it works.

 

In other words, the only way you'll ever catch someone in stealth is if they're in combat (moving at 100%) and you're not (moving at 100% + 35% Sprint out of combat - 15% for being in stealth). If you're IN stealth and they're OUT of stealth AND out of combat, you will never ever catch them.

 

Bottom line, with that talent and in stealth you still move slower than someone without talent and out of stealth. Travel time issue still applies.

 

Point 2: Taking down a healer in 3 seconds > taking down the life of 4 people with a healer trying to heal through it.

 

Debatable.

 

You are assuming all people involved at 100%. But suppose there's a crowd of 5 people, including the healer. And they range from 100% HP to 10% HP. An AoE might take 1 out of the equation completely. And try to remember, a player at 1% HP still does 100% DPS/HPS. What's more, said AoE can take out 2-3 people out of the equation, as most healers are only really able to heal one target at a time (Operative gets a HoT, but it's rather weak).

 

Consider this simple math. A healer is capable of healing 2k damage every second. You did 30k damage in a second with your AoE to 5 people (Jug doing an AoE hitting 5 people for 6k each, see screenshot on this forum). That means the healer needs 15 seceonds JUST to repair the damage you did, in 1 second. Am AoE creates a health deficit that a healer cannot hope to recover from. While single target, it may be feasible, if you can only do that kind of damage every 3 seconds.

Edited December 30, 2011 by Sabbathius

[biowareftw]

what class are you?

 

Guarantee he is a bounty hunter or sage. Funny thing is they hard counter all melee, can shield teamates are the BEST off healer because they can shield heal from range without having to stay on a target as melee...

 

oh and they are the EASIEST AC's (both bh/commando, sage/sorc) to play in the game.

 

But yeah nerf their counter...

 

GREAT IDEA.

 

Let's all stand 30 yards away from eachother stunning eachother hitting tab and pressing 2 dots (long cooldowns so you don't press these often on single target), press ONE BUTTON 80 percent of the time, to proc a instant cast.

 

Sounds like a great plan. Let's all play dumbed down shadow priests with half the spells and hotkeys. FABULOUS.

 

If they nerf the only counter to BH/Sorc? See ya swtor. I have no desire to play a class designed so that little kids could compete in pvp.

 

Sorcerer/Sage keyboard looks just like a mages keyboard from WoW. All q's...

Edited December 30, 2011 by biowareftw

[Mursie]

the talent and sprint doesn't stack.

 

but anyway, operative/scoundrel dmg is so high cuz they don't have anything, they don't have any gap closer etc, they have a slow and cc (which everyone else have too)

 

what are you talking about? you have no gap closer? stealth?

 

debilitate which can grant a speed boost?

 

or how bout just snipe from 30m and hit for YES - 4K. watch the op videos.. its a classic. not only can they roflstomp you from openers with 6k, and 2-4k stabs.. but then snipe ppl from 30m's hitting for 4k.

 

squishy? you wear medium armor. MEDIUM. talk to a dps shadow about squishy in his light armor with instant cast (i mean 4 second) cast project with 45% chance of collateral double dmg. laughable. but hey.. as one moron pointed out... if your target will just stand still and allow you to stab four mauls uncontested... you too can kill effeciently.. rofl.

 

with an op/scoundrel you can exit a fight at your leisure with stealth vanish tools... and then self heal yourself and re-enter combat. are you kidding me? but hey... I throw challenge around for a 30% dmg debuff on everyone.. so seems about right. Or better yet.. how bout with my dps gear... i throw guard on a fellow companion getting beat on. I mean hey.. I'm light armor and get an armor buff that get's me to that squishy medium armor op/scoundrel level when I do so.. so that seems right yes? Sure I take 1/2 of my fellow companion's dmg.. but I'm a non-healing light armored wannabe dps scoundrel/op rogue right? not a problem.

 

again - if you say ops/scoundrels are not overpowered.... I say "Hi Mr. Operative/Scoundrel"

 

but don't get me wrong.. i'm not crying for a nerf... far from it. Let the good times roll because i fully plan to face plant on my keyboard and waffle ppl in 3 gcd's on my own scoundrel. Just don't lie to yourself and think this is even remotely balanced.

[Gorgewall]

I'm not 50 and I haven't fought 50 Operatives, but I deal with same-level (~46) Ops in Warzones and open-world (hooray Belsavis) and it doesn't matter how many DoTs or Acid Blades they shove in my backside, they cannot withstand the awesome might of gravity bullets.

 

Not OP. If anything, I'm OP.

[Sevvy]

I love how people that don't play Operatives think they are experts on how the class works.

 

Half of the **** in this thread that every non-Operative/Scoundrel has said is completely wrong.

 

Also, lol @ any Shadow/Assassin that wants Operatives nerfed. Lol.

[biowareftw]

I love how people that don't play Operatives think they are experts on how the class works.

 

Half of the **** in this thread that every non-Operative/Scoundrel has said is completely wrong.

 

Also, lol @ any Shadow/Assassin that wants Operatives nerfed. Lol.

 

No kidding. Fastest class to kill me has been assassin. 2 global cooldowns (mauls) when I need FOUR to "stunlock" someone to death rofl, and my gear is GOOD.

[Mursie]

I love how people that don't play Operatives think they are experts on how the class works.

 

Half of the **** in this thread that every non-Operative/Scoundrel has said is completely wrong.

 

Also, lol @ any Shadow/Assassin that wants Operatives nerfed. Lol.

 

 

Hi Mr. Operative

[Mobiwang]

I don't believe so.

 

The talent increasing 15% movement works only out of combat. It does not stack with Sprint, which works only out of combat. It does not stack with mount. You can test it if you want, but from my observations that's how it works.

 

In other words, the only way you'll ever catch someone in stealth is if they're in combat (moving at 100%) and you're not (moving at 100% + 35% Sprint out of combat - 15% for being in stealth). If you're IN stealth and they're OUT of stealth AND out of combat, you will never ever catch them.

 

Bottom line, with that talent and in stealth you still move slower than someone without talent and out of stealth. Travel time issue still applies.

 

I'll have to test that. Nowhere in the talent list does it show that the speed increase is only out of combat. Time to have theorycraft races with guildies!

 

In any case, they can't run forever. If you try to run away, you're just going to die tired.

 

Debatable.

 

You are assuming all people involved at 100%. But suppose there's a crowd of 5 people, including the healer. And they range from 100% HP to 10% HP. An AoE might take 1 out of the equation completely. And try to remember, a player at 1% HP still does 100% DPS/HPS. What's more, said AoE can take out 2-3 people out of the equation, as most healers are only really able to heal one target at a time (Operative gets a HoT, but it's rather weak).

 

Consider this simple math. A healer is capable of healing 2k damage every second. You did 30k damage in a second with your AoE to 5 people (Jug doing an AoE hitting 5 people for 6k each, see screenshot on this forum). That means the healer needs 15 seceonds JUST to repair the damage you did, in 1 second. Am AoE creates a health deficit that a healer cannot hope to recover from. While single target, it may be feasible, if you can only do that kind of damage every 3 seconds.

 

It all depends on the situation, I agree. Healers do get aoe heals though and unless you're able to capitalize on a low HP enemy, is not impossible to heal through enough to keep people alive for a few more seconds. Combine that with the fact that aoe normally isnt too bursty (you can move out of a lot of it). Jugg AOE screens are a bit contrived. It has a minute cooldown and requires you to jump in the middle of a group and got get knocked back/cc'ed/burned in the 4 seconds it takes to activate, all the while forgoing most any talent that buffs anything but that 1 attack.

[DeltaThirteen]

No kidding. Fastest class to kill me has been assassin. 2 global cooldowns (mauls) when I need FOUR to "stunlock" someone to death rofl, and my gear is GOOD.

 

Even funnier was him ranting off on the other AC of the Smuggler. The ones without stealth.

[Sevvy]

Hi Mr. Operative

 

Hi, Mr. Bad Player.

[Mursie]

Hi, Mr. Bad Player.

 

lol don't worry. I'll be "rolling" into a "good" player like you very soon!

[Zothar]

lol don't worry. I'll be "rolling" into a "good" player like you very soon!

 

Awww poor baby!

[Lord_Karsk]

Hi, Mr. Bad Player.

 

The only bad players i know of are the ones who have to play a op class to survive.

[DeltaThirteen]

Awww poor baby!

 

Wonder how much that will cost him. Are there guides/tutorials/trainers/whatever out yet?

[Aragiel]

so i see - for many ppl getting bursted by one class in 3gcd and in single stun is the right idea ?

i bet you love wow rogues right .. common - check sometimes endsocre of warzones, and what are biggest hits.. average is 2-2,5k. Why should one class be able to do twice?

[Kyrandis]

So I made a video for you guys and some of your crazy claims.

 

You made find it here in this thread.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=948998#post948998

[Reenolols]

Guys, operative needs toned down slightly, stop denying it, seriously. The good ops will still wreck face when they're nerfed. Jarring strike to 2s, 10% HS nerf, or 15% acid blade nerf, will make it a lot more balanced... just not all three.