Mursie Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 (edited) I believe he is referring to the break free from CC ability that every class gets at quite low-ish level. It's just that in some games like WoW this isn't a class ability it a trinket that gets referred to a PvP trinket. As such when people are playing MMO PvP they usually refer to a break free ability as PvP trinket. if he is referring to your class cc-break ability then he is incorrect. your cc break ability does not work on an op/scoundrel opener (hiddens strike or scoundrel equivalent). so no.. you can't trinket the 3 second knockdown. just like you can't trinket my 2 second spinning kick knockdown opener out of stealth. but here is the huge difference. my opener hits for 400 dmg and lasts 2 seconds. (so it's useless and no assassin/shadow worth a damn will ever use it.) op/scoundrel hits for 4-6k dmg and lasts 3 seconds. yes both give a full resolve bar once done... but one did 400 dmg and allowed one additional attack uncontested... the other did 4-6k dmg (sometimes even 7-8K dmg) and allows two uncontested attacks. seriously, i'll say it again... show me a person that thinks operative/scoundrel is not over-powered... and I'll show you an operative/scoundrel. Edited December 30, 2011 by Mursie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valsdad Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 Show me a person that believes a scoundrel/operative is not overpowered.... and I'll show you a scoundrel/operative. I know that if I'm not stealthed, I'm dead. There has to be an answer to ranged classes sitting back and nuking people. The answer to the scoundrel are armored hard hitting classes that don't wilt under burst. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cardizzle Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 I know that if I'm not stealthed, I'm dead. There has to be an answer to ranged classes sitting back and nuking people. The answer to the scoundrel are armored hard hitting classes that don't wilt under burst. The counter in WoW (for a while) was the warrior class, so we shall see what the devs do. I would hope they learn their lesson from that game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHRISGG Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 really? that is your counter-argument? so the op/scoundrel can alpha strike 6k with a preloaded armor pen dot... that knocks you down for 3 seconds allowing for 2 more uncontested attacks.... or .. i can swing an unbuffed shadow strike (as the opening hit will not have find weakness) and either low slash or force stun you.. which is cc breakable...or swing a few more (no more than 3 as the force cost on this ability is 1/2 of your total force pool so even with opening stealth regen... 3-4 max) see the difference is.. you can react to it.. you have options... you can quickly cc break and pot... deflection... force cloak... stun ...snare.. etc. etc.. the op/scoundrel opener is beyond lethal..beyond insane burst... and you can not react to it before death... and as for the adrenal tip.. please do not post me rookie *****.. we're talking about well played op/scoundrels... of course i realize that it is buffed with relic/adrenal etc... and yes all classes have access to this. read the point.. not all classes have access to the insane alpha strike with 3sec knockdown that to my knowledge is not breakable.. (force of will does not break it so if you are calling this a trinket... you are wrong.. it will not break the op/scoundrel opener knockdown).. but hey... i do have spinning kick that hits for 400 dmg... and lasts 2 secs... so its about equal right? lawl 4 straight mauls out of stealth with those buffs will absolutely 100-0 anything but a level 50 tank. that is my counter argument and it's absolutely 100% true. outside of hidden strike you do much more dmg than an op does hope this helps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHRISGG Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 if he is referring to your class cc-break ability then he is incorrect. your cc break ability does not work on an op/scoundrel opener (hiddens strike or scoundrel equivalent). so no.. you can't trinket the 3 second knockdown. just like you can't trinket my 2 second spinning kick knockdown opener out of stealth. you can break both of these btw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mursie Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 I know that if I'm not stealthed, I'm dead. There has to be an answer to ranged classes sitting back and nuking people. The answer to the scoundrel are armored hard hitting classes that don't wilt under burst. you clearly are not reading the thread... amored hard hitting BH's and tanks have responded.. they still die or are almost dead after initial burst. what good does armor do if you can pre-load while in stealth 50% armor pen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valsdad Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 you clearly are not reading the thread... amored hard hitting BH's and tanks have responded.. they still die or are almost dead after initial burst. what good does armor do if you can pre-load while in stealth 50% armor pen? Because after the initial burst, I'm done. If a target I opened up on and blew my burst on is at 50%, I'm looking for escape opportunities because I am, for all intents and purposes, done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mursie Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 4 straight mauls out of stealth with those buffs will absolutely 100-0 anything but a level 50 tank. that is my counter argument and it's absolutely 100% true. outside of hidden strike you do much more dmg than an op does hope this helps if someone lets you hit them with 4 straight uncontested shadow strikes... which again would take much longer than 4 seconds due to force pool constraints on a 50 force cost ability out of a force pool of 100.. then they are beyond terrible. We are not talking about killing noobs here. Yes... i can autoattack a mob to death if i hit it with 100 straight autoattacks... but seriously.. don't be an idiot.. no one is letting you have four straight shadowstrikes... again.. they have options... as they can pot...stun...snare... or simply just not give you their back... when you are knocked down for 3 seconds with no cc break options... and the opener did 4-6K and two more attacks are coming uncontested... then you have a winner. don't tell me i can maul a tree four times and it will die... we aren't talking about afk targets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zehscion Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 pvp trinket has 2min cd. so lets say you carry a ball in huttball and like almost always you get cced on top of a flame thingy and ofc you have to trinket that. 1min later you get caught by a scoundrel. so what i have seen from many of you here is this:'UL L2P' so its my incompetence that got me killed in one stun right? you are, basically, defending killing people in one stun lock because its their fault they didnt have trinket. it saddens me how much sub 1.5k rated wow players are here.(and fotm rerollers) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bandelederen Posted December 30, 2011 Author Share Posted December 30, 2011 Guess i'll be the one laughing when they nerf this in some way 'caus, rest assured, that will happen. If im still playing that is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHRISGG Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 if someone lets you hit them with 4 straight uncontested shadow strikes... which again would take much longer than 4 seconds due to force pool constraints on a 50 force cost ability out of a force pool of 100.. then they are beyond terrible. We are not talking about killing noobs here. Yes... i can autoattack a mob to death if i hit it with 100 straight autoattacks... but seriously.. don't be an idiot.. no one is letting you have four straight shadowstrikes... again.. they have options... as they can pot...stun...snare... or simply just not give you their back... when you are knocked down for 3 seconds with no cc break options... and the opener did 4-6K and two more attacks are coming uncontested... then you have a winner. don't tell me i can maul a tree four times and it will die... we aren't talking about afk targets. rofl you don't even know your class? i mean have you looked at your talent trees at all 4 straight mauls is 100% possible specced for it also if you have trouble landing postionals, it's on you and your keyboard turning, not your opponents. stop using terms like "noobs," nobody any good has ANY trouble landing positional attacks in any game so you are clearly not good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mursie Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 you can break both of these btw. Spinning Kick: - it's a 2s stun, and induces a 1.5s global cooldown. It is actually a knockdown, and not an incapacitate effect. There is no ability in the game which can break someone out of a knockdown - they have to recover normally. if this is incorrect please let me know.. to my knowledge the knockdown effect is not cc-breakable.. and as a personal first person witness to 3 second op/scoundrel knockdown effects as well as a deliverer of my own 2 second pathetic one... i know this to be true. if you have knowledge to the contrary.. please enlighten Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fokias Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 Shieldtech Tank. -40% health before the stun is over. if there's 2 of them it's goodnight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHRISGG Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 Spinning Kick: - it's a 2s stun, and induces a 1.5s global cooldown. It is actually a knockdown, and not an incapacitate effect. There is no ability in the game which can break someone out of a knockdown - they have to recover normally. if this is incorrect please let me know.. to my knowledge the knockdown effect is not cc-breakable.. and as a personal first person witness to 3 second op/scoundrel knockdown effects as well as a deliverer of my own 2 second pathetic one... i know this to be true. if you have knowledge to the contrary.. please enlighten "incapacitate" encompasses all effects that cause you to lose control of your character lmao Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mursie Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 rofl you don't even know your class? i mean have you looked at your talent trees at all 4 straight mauls is 100% possible specced for it also if you have trouble landing postionals, it's on you and your keyboard turning, not your opponents. stop using terms like "noobs," nobody any good has ANY trouble landing positional attacks in any game so you are clearly not good. chris.. you are posting garbage man. if you are beating someone with four straight mauls in the back uncontested... they are AFK or are garbage. We're talking about competitive PVP here.. that is my point. I've already said that out of stealth.. with regen opener... it is possibly to execute 3-4 mauls..but the point is.. they can be contested in a myriad of ways... you can pot.. snare...stun... force cloak... etc.. etc... you don't have to just eat 4 straight mauls.. and if you do.. you are beyond terrible. we're talking about good players playing competitive pvp. if one player can land 3 uncontested strikes... pre-loaded with a 1k dot that gives 50% armor pen.. and the other can land 4 contested strikes on an idiot... that is apples to oranges? can you not see the distinction? are you this slow? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Izini Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 Maybe you need to PVP more. They are not OP, their damage does not need to be turned down, it needs to be high because they can do nothing else. If you target them while they are uncloaked, you mince them. They are nowhere NEAR the gods of PVP. Go and actually PVP. Every class has something that seems overpowered. Every. One. ^this is very true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jnaathra Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 (edited) It is OP and people know it. Everyone can dance around in this thread coming up with excuses and inaccuracies, but in the end there is to much damage. I see people that point and complain about BH/Trooper and Sorc/Sage damage by showing damage done in Warzones. Damage that is primarily done via AOE skills. Damage that is spread over numerous enemies and moderate at best. That is how they top damage charts, by hurting a lot of targets for min/moderate damage. Then I see Op/Scoundrels that beat those numbers and knowing the class mechanics you come to realize that all of that damage is massive single target burst. Burst that cripples you in seconds, burst that can barely be mitigated by the toughest tank classes. Burst that obliterates healers and DPS classes that have their cooldowns ready.. Something will change, it is a given at this point. The forum is awash with complaints, the videos and documentation of people dying in a few seconds are adding up. Eventually when enough people playing these classes reach endgame it will become even worse. So worse that it will become a turn off for people playing the game. That is why Bioware will have to react to this. Leaving it alone does more damage than fixing it. The longer they wait, the worse the damage. Edited December 30, 2011 by Jnaathra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgedy Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 trinket the sap and dot him before he vanishes He can still vanish with DOT's on him but nice try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mursie Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 "incapacitate" encompasses all effects that cause you to lose control of your character lmao I will duel a scoundrel guildy tonight and 100% confirm this... but to my knowledge... the opener knockdown is not cc-breakable for reasons I have already posted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Creshin Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 I must be playing a different game then all the QQer's because I have never been hit for more then 3k-3.5k, granted I am a tank speced vanguard. I rarely come across a class/player that can even come close to beating me 1v1. The fight might last 2 or 3 min but I always come out on top. As for stealth, well let me just say LOL 10 sec detection 20 sec cool down with a snare on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xaes Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 I will duel a scoundrel guildy tonight and 100% confirm this... but to my knowledge... the opener knockdown is not cc-breakable for reasons I have already posted. ANY ability that gets CC added through a talent neither gives nor respects Resolve. GG Mythic, GG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zehscion Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 I must be playing a different game then all the QQer's because I have never been hit for more then 3k-3.5k, granted I am a tank speced vanguard. I rarely come across a class/player that can even come close to beating me 1v1. The fight might last 2 or 3 min but I always come out on top. As for stealth, well let me just say LOL 10 sec detection 20 sec cool down with a snare on it. stopped reading there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bdaw Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 He can trinket it all he wants, biowares funky *** resolve system wont give you enough resolve for immunity until u've been stunned twice, despite the insane duration of the agents stuns. PS: This is even worse in Huttball, when the agent can simply use vent to escape when he done his deed. Zetara, well then its not a burst class it is now? that is sustained damage. He killed you in the course of 1 stun, please tell me how that isn't burst damage? If you had managed to "trinket" and get a stun on him as a previous poster said you probably would've been fine. I see people complain on here all the time about them, and hear my friends complain as well. On my 32 sorc I've never had a problem with them. Stop screaming for nerf and instead come up with a plan for when that happens to you. I hate cry babies who would rather nerf than work on their skills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acidbaron Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 (edited) 4 straight mauls is 100% possible specced for it Proc based not a given, incase some people get the wrong impression that 4 mauls at 25 force is the norm. As a side note you wouldn't want to use mauls when you got a bigger burst opener. As with the crit bonanza - I've noticed there are no stats that reduce crit and often due to pvp throwing in everyone together from 10 to 50 geared it's hard to get a correct view. However with no crit reducing stats not even as a tank, you can take a good beating. As only tanks have dmg reduction abilities what are capped at 50% and avoidance at 30%. I think they'll reduce burst dmg thru gear, makes sense as they have an offense pvp stat cause once people start stacking surge and expertise every class will become a burst class and only tanks will not drop in a few globals - pointing it to a class/spec is pointless wait till shadow/assasin start stacking and mauraders, fun times ahead assasins and operatives will just have a small edge as a knockback is the only cc you cannot get out of and are forced to wait till the animation is over. Edited December 30, 2011 by Acidbaron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nyghoma Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 These threads are laughable after I see Sins and Mercs nearly break 600k dmg in WZs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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