The PVP community has spoken...how does Keith respond?

[Mycroft-Tarkin]

To the people saying "but you can use UCs"...

 

Out of 4 shards per week, one of them costs 500 and the remaining cost 1000. So, 3500 UC per gear piece. 3500*14 = 49,000 UC for a SINGLE CHARACTER.

 

Need more be said?

Edited October 18, 2018 by Mycroft-Tarkin

[Mycroft-Tarkin]

To the people saying "but you can use UCs"...

 

Out of 4 shards per week, one of them costs 500 and the remaining cost 1000. So, 3500 UC per gear piece. 3500*14 = 49,000 UC for a SINGLE CHARACTER.

 

Need more be said?

 

To add to that, let's very modestly assume each PvP match gives you 20 UC. To get 49000 UC you would require 2450 PVP games. Assuming a PvP game takes 10 mins on average, that's over 400 hours of PvP to gear a SINGLE character (pop wait times NOT included!).

 

It's absurd that this even needs to be discussed.

Edited October 18, 2018 by Mycroft-Tarkin

[mrphstar]

the pvp community has spoken....

 

yeah right, lets make another threat about the exact same topic then.

and another one.....and one more....

 

To the people saying "but you can use UCs"...

 

Out of 4 shards per week, one of them costs 500 and the remaining cost 1000. So, 3500 UC per gear piece. 3500*14 = 49,000 UC for a SINGLE CHARACTER.

 

Need more be said?

 

how about you buy one shards per week? makes it 2k per piece.

how about you do it on all toons? its not like everyone has exactly one toon.

how about weekly/daily rewards?

 

2k UCs are a joke considiring all this, espacily for pvp players.

 

doing the worst possible calculation doenst make the system look pretty good ofc.

Edited October 18, 2018 by mrphstar

[Mournblood]

Successful game developers from other company’s will often reverse changes or admit they are wrong if the players hate it. Bioware won’t, they double down.

 

You act surprised. You must have missed the whole Mass Effect 3 "ending" fiasco. In my decades of gaming, I've never heard a louder fan outcry or witnessed more negative PR of a game studio's decision that utterly disappointed such an overwhelming number of players. Everything from the #HoldTheLine (Retake Mass Effect) charity movement (which raised $80k) to the BBB and FTC was involved. In the end, Bioware/EA hid behind "artistic integrity" and released an extended cut scene ending that merely addressed the numerous plot holes created by the original ending in an effort to placate fans. Essentially, they doubled-down, and the original "ABC" ending that the fans were so outraged about was never changed.

 

There's been countless arguments and discussions about that watershed moment in gaming history since then, from Reddit to Forbes. The conclusion that was begrudgingly reached by most was that the customer is always right, and the "art" of video games would not exist without them. Apparently, Bioware has not completely taken that lesson to heart.

 

To add to that, let's very modestly assume each PvP match gives you 20 UC.

 

Incidentally, you get 20 UC for a win, only 8 UC for a loss. Unless you win every single one of those 2400+ matches, it's going to take a lot longer than you projected if all you do is PvP. Whereas if a PvEer clears NM Iokath each week and gets one piece of T5 gear from the raid, they'll be done in 14 weeks. Not to mention the surplus schematics that they'll sell for tens of millions on the GTN.

Edited October 18, 2018 by Mournblood

[ultimarb]

the pvp community has spoken....

 

yeah right, lets make another threat about the exact same topic then.

and another one.....and one more....

 

+10 thread with the same 10 people bringing and agreeing to the same arguments.

if the would just spend their time doing pvp they would have enough stuff to buy 258 in just a week after relase of 5.10.

 

in the end the devs will raise bolster to a reasonable level below BiS as they ever did...

and in the end the same old regstar heroes claiming the would have won the game if they had BiS gear...and some guys sitting there with korriban bolstered stuff doing twice the hps/dps as those in BiS...

And the only pvp guys who actually would have a concern of BiS are the ranked guys...and those seems to not even post here in those +10 threads XD

[Sundown]

I guess besides the missing Expertise there is not much difference to the crystal-bases system before 5.0, so in PvE it is fine, in PvP it is worse.

 

So I do agree that pure PvPers are worse off - and I definitely would like to see Expertise return, even if it would explode the number of sets you require if you play both and multiple roles at that...

 

Regarding the overall idea of gearing process: when 5.0 came out the GC system sucked, but it was improved and in the end I kind of liked it. It makes gearing comparatively easy, quick and fun, at least with my playing style (I play PvP and PvE on multiple characters). If I wanted to I was BiS on many more than the 3 chars I am, but I am hoarding the UCs for reasons beyond me.

 

But even if the differences in PvP are arguably rather small (248 BiS vs. 258) I can definitely understand the sentiment. So either remove gear in PvP for good, or make PvE gear useless in PvP by bringing back Expertise.

 

On a personal side note: the idea of a new gear level never resonated with me. At first I thought it was due to the way it was implemented, but then I realized: it is the general idea of grinding another level of gear with only limited new content... so maybe after all those years I will have to admit it might be time to call it a day.

[bladech]

The PVP community has overwhelmingly spoken out against the methodology of the next gear increase in 5.10. Literally, tons of well written, insightful posts over the past week. The grind is extremely burdensome, grindy and costly. This is all fine, for PVE players that are pursuing higher difficulties to progress.

 

In PVP, however, people are more interested in fair competition where gear matters less than skill. There is no level increase in this patch. There is literally ZERO difference in playing experience for PVP players in 5.10 vs 5.9. You're going to be playing the SAME maps. We do not have a new PVP equivalent to an Op that requires better gear.

 

This doesn't mean we should get gear for free. PVP players are ok with a fair system to improve gear. The 4.0 era was a perfect example of it, as many have noted. You had to get gear, but it didn't take too much time and allowed you to play more of your alts, which made it MORE FUN and less of a grind ending in burnout. The 4.0 era also had FAR MORE PLAYERS in PVP compared to now.

 

The community has outlined several good ideas, feel free to add if I missed any:

 

- Add expertise back in with a separate reward system similar to 4.0

- Cap gear level bolster to a fair level, which means stats higher than 242 would not be counted

- Allow the progression with the same system as in 5.6, which was grindy but more alt friendly than 5.0 or 5.10

 

After the past few months of pushing out content aimed for PVP players (new stronghold, new huttball map, etc) why would you introduce a gearing system that immediately pushes away your PVP base? Many people are saying they will be unsubbing with this system and just wait until 6.0 comes out to see if they come back. The problem is, sometimes people don't come back. Its like the lessons learned from 5.0 have been forgotten.

 

We've seen an increase of changes from feedback from Keith & the team, from PTS to forum discussions. It would mean a lot to see a response to the concerns from this part of your customer base and how you intend to address it, if anything. Thank you.

 

They ignored everything and will pay for this by loosing subscribers as it always happened before. They nerfed pt to rot - most of players who mained pt quited swtor, they didnt created any new classes/provided new content slowly - old players who already played all classes and re-done old content many times quited, they didnt fix dsync and other buggs which often occuring during regs - many regular warzones players quited. Now with implementing long-grind gearing system without expertise gear or bolster buff they will pay by loosing many ranked/unranked pvp players.

 

Devs here like to fail and pay.

[Totemdancer]

They ignored everything and will pay for this by loosing subscribers as it always happened before. They nerfed pt to rot - most of players who mained pt quited swtor, they didnt created any new classes/provided new content slowly - old players who already played all classes and re-done old content many times quited, they didnt fix dsync and other buggs which often occuring during regs - many regular warzones players quited. Now with implementing long-grind gearing system without expertise gear or bolster buff they will pay by loosing many ranked/unranked pvp players.

 

Devs here like to fail and pay.

 

At the end of the day we all pay as well because there is no other SW MMO to go play if the game gets shut down.

Sure there are other MMOs, but let’s face it, most of us are only still here because it’s SW. If it was any other generic IP game, we would be long gone.

It why some of us are so passionate about keeping the game alive and there aren’t many of us posters left. The majority of the pvp posters have since left the game in disgust. It’s why there are only about 10 pvpers posting about this because that’s about all the pvp posters left. We have to be louder because of it and we have to talk to pvpers in matches to gauge how they feel about the changes. I’ve only encountered a small amount who like the change an di suspect they are extremely casual pvpers by the way they played,

The majority of pvpers I talk to are trying to decide if they’ll just unsub and stop playing. They can’t be bothered fighting Bioware’s continued disregard for what the players want. For them, they’ve had enough.

And that’s the problem since 5.0, Bioware are driving more and more people away. For ever good thing they do, they do two bad things that make people leave. They make something good or add something nice and then don’t do it properly or make a system worse. In the end, you just ask yourself, “why did they even bother”.

If Bioware actually listened to the players, things would be going so much better than they are. People don’t continue to leave if you’re doing a good job. At this late stage in the game, what would it hurt if they did actually start to listen. The worst that could happen is people leave, like they will anyway. There is more upside to them listening than ramming through things that will piss everybody off.

[Mycroft-Tarkin]

how about you buy one shards per week? makes it 2k per piece.

 

It will take over a year to gear a single character if you buy 1 shard per week.

[Ghost_Spectre]

Deleted...somehow it morphed into a double post. Edited October 18, 2018 by Ghost_Spectre

[Ghost_Spectre]

[As for the incessant whining about gear for alts... why is an alt entitled to faster gear then a main charcter?]

 

Wait, what? Where does "entitled come from?" How does this fit your narrative that BioWare's new gearing system is good for the game? No one said anything that remotely indicates "entitlement." You just took an under-handed shot at all players in this game that have numerous alts, including myself.

 

News Flash. I have 4 Jug/Guardian Tanks. My main is fully geared in 248 via the CXP boxes. I have, through the boxes, given 2 of the remaining 3 248 gear for their armor, main hand, and off-hand. However, I cannot give them any gear for the left-side of the character sheet. Therefore, I still must GRIND through tier 1 to 4 to obtain those pieces. So, what that I was able to improve the time that the alts I play to have gear quicker. That was the nature of this game. Now, BioWare has deemed this is no longer the meta and they have decided to nerf the process that you so richly and lovingly defend.

 

Every reply you've posted towards those voicing their displeasure for this convoluted and NCsoft Korean style grind-fest is nothing more than veiled insults because they don't bow down and worship these changes as though they were sent by God himself for the players to enjoy...better yet, suck it up, heal to full, and make them pay.

 

Truly, your blind defense of the indefensible is remarkable. BioWare's changes to the current gearing system is a backhand to all players (casual or not) who worked with the bastardized system they forced down our throats starting at 5.0, this is the new system and it is good?

 

Now, they change it to slow that process down even further and literally separates players into two groups, Elite Progressive Ops and the rest. And you say, this is good by all what you've posted in the last week? How much are you being paid by the company to carry their water while they sit back and remain silent and ignore the entire gaming community concerning their new absurd Korean style grind-fest?

 

Your posts to those who disagree are in direct contradiction and diametrically opposed to everyone that voiced their opinion in the negative. I'm of the opinion that you have no credibility on this subject just based on how you write paragraph after paragraph trying to dissuade the dissenters from their positions and beliefs based on what BioWare's own actions and statements concerning the new gearing system.

 

Fact: The new gearing system goes against their own statements on why they changed it in 5.0. Furthermore, it literally separates players into 2 groups (as I stated earlier). Lastly, the opposition against this new system is as strong as it was when Galactic Command and the grind-fest influenced CXP boxes were announced. If you cannot see that then you're truly blinded by your zealotry for all things BioWare.

 

And you want to claim "entitlement." Nice...

[DavidAtkinson]

To the people saying "but you can use UCs"...

 

Out of 4 shards per week, one of them costs 500 and the remaining cost 1000. So, 3500 UC per gear piece. 3500*14 = 49,000 UC for a SINGLE CHARACTER.

 

Need more be said?

 

That means that I will gear my main in 1 day... or on the first week, and most people in my guild have 40k UC's + and I'm sure a lot of people on these forums do as well. I seriously doubt it will be that easy... and if yes, there is nothing to talk about really... from my point of view anyway.

 

Players who were smart enough not to waste their UC's on alts they log 2/3 times per week will be in a very good position.

 

I think that what bothers most people here is the fact that in some way we all start from scratch... and most of us are so used to running bis that the thought of being undergeared and getting rekt by some noob who spneds 24/7 in game is not very encouraging. It's vanilla 5.0 feeling all over again. Also... the feeling that you start all over again. I can sympathize with that.

 

But it's a video game.. and most MMO's have some kind of a grind. Nothing new I'm afraid.

 

4.0 gearing system ? No thank you... In my view that means 2 sets of gear which hinders access to PVP = less people in que. Not many will bother to grind both sets of gear. If they make system that is mixed with 4.0 and 5.0 I'm for it totally, but we need only one set of gear.

 

I only PVP in this game, so feel free to throw rocks at me. I believe in fast pops and everyone should have easy access to PVP.

Edited October 18, 2018 by DavidAtkinson

[Andryah]

If nothing else, it seems like almost everyone here, including you, agrees this system is a bad gearing system for pure PvPers right (and assuming no full bolster)? It's actually not a bad system overall from what I can tell. But see, if this is meant for MM-level players only, then fine (and maybe even good for them?) -- I can avoid that content. But why should this gear have an impact in PvP (especially if PvP is a harder way to get the gear, and the gear isn't intended, by the devs own words, for PvP?). It introduces a further, needless gear asymmetry into a supposedly skill-only environment, further gimping "casual" PvPers like me who will never be able to gear up even one toon this way...

 

It's not a bad system really, even for PvPers (though I prefer they simply bolster such that gear is irrelevant for PvP and be done with it since they already removed expertise some time ago). LIke all reward systems in game... it's never completely fair and equal for all pathways to the gear... some are more intensive then others and probably always will be. And different players approach chasing the rewards differently too.... some grind like maniacs and lash out about the grind.. and other take it as it comes and don't sweat it... because it's a game.. not your real life salary.

 

The core issue is not how the gear is obtained (though the crafting path seems the most arduous now). It's more along the lines of A) the actual improvement in character power is a small incremental increase. B) yet another tier of gear being released so late into 5.x when there is no real content that requires it. Both of these aspects = gear is really not worth the chase to be honest... and I think many players will agree with this assessment and will simply not chase this gear at all. If they get a drop or MWS through their normal preferred game play and can buy some pieces.. of course they probably will.

 

All this angst about this new gear being hardest for PvPers to obtain is now myth, based on current PTS. The crafting path has actually been severely deprecated through the very high materials costs.... which is a typical studio bait and switch. They offered up initially that this was to be crafted gear and got everyone all worked up who did not craft and did not like doing PvE. That was the "speak" coming out of the first reveal. Now.... since the live stream and with PTS now live... we can clearly see that they lied about this (either through omission to begin with, or they were persaded by player outrage to make the gear obtainable in a range of different ways). Crafting now very much appears (based on math and effort analysis) to be the SLOWEST pathway to this gear. But crafting is also a scalable aspect of the player economy and as more crafters come on line some weeks after the patch drops... it may ultimately be the best pathway unless you are dirt broke in terms of credits (which frankly is a self-inflicted challenge on the part of a player).

 

PvPers have complained so much about this, and made so many demands... but now UCs are a main pathway to gear access through a vendor... and as such.. PvPers can enjoy once again having non-PvP players stuffing themselves into PvP matches they really have no interest. Crafting, in spite of any claims by the studio now appears to be the slowest path to this gear. Drops in game... totally RNG... and we know how most players feel about RNG. PvP... just show up.. goof off and leave your team short handed ... collect UCs... rinse and repeat. Which continues to damage the quality of PvP matches when you have half a team playing and the other half picking lint out of their navels until the match ends.

Edited October 18, 2018 by Andryah

[TUXs]

Wait, what? Where does "entitled come from?" How does this fit your narrative that BioWare's new gearing system is good for the game? No one said anything that remotely indicates "entitlement." You just took an under-handed shot at all players in this game that have numerous alts, including myself.

 

News Flash. I have 4 Jug/Guardian Tanks. My main is fully geared in 248 via the CXP boxes. I have, through the boxes, given 2 of the remaining 3 248 gear for their armor, main hand, and off-hand. However, I cannot give them any gear for the left-side of the character sheet. Therefore, I still must GRIND through tier 1 to 4 to obtain those pieces. So, what that I was able to improve the time that the alts I play to have gear quicker. That was the nature of this game. Now, BioWare has deemed this is no longer the meta and they have decided to nerf the process that you so richly and lovingly defend.

 

Every reply you've posted towards those voicing their displeasure for this convoluted and NCsoft Korean style grind-fest is nothing more than veiled insults because they don't bow down and worship these changes as though they were sent by God himself for the players to enjoy...better yet, suck it up, heal to full, and make them pay.

 

Truly, your blind defense of the indefensible is remarkable. BioWare's changes to the current gearing system is a backhand to all players (casual or not) who worked with the bastardized system they forced down our throats starting at 5.0, this is the new system and it is good?

 

Now, they change it to slow that process down even further and literally separates players into two groups, Elite Progressive Ops and the rest. And you say, this is good by all what you've posted in the last week? How much are you being paid by the company to carry their water while they sit back and remain silent and ignore the entire gaming community concerning their new absurd Korean style grind-fest?

 

Your posts to those who disagree are in direct contradiction and diametrically opposed to everyone that voiced their opinion in the negative. I'm of the opinion that you have no credibility on this subject just based on how you write paragraph after paragraph trying to dissuade the dissenters from their positions and beliefs based on what BioWare's own actions and statements concerning the new gearing system.

 

Fact: The new gearing system goes against their own statements on why they changed it in 5.0. Furthermore, it literally separates players into 2 groups (as I stated earlier). Lastly, the opposition against this new system is as strong as it was when Galactic Command and the grind-fest influenced CXP boxes were announced. If you cannot see that then you're truly blinded by your zealotry for all things BioWare.

 

And you want to claim "entitlement." Nice...

Absolutely agree!!! Good reply. The new gearing system is simply awful.

[Rion_Starkiller]

it will take over a year to gear a single character if you buy 1 shard per week.

 

1 crystal for 500 legacy UC's

per toon

per toon

per toon

per toon

per toon

Edited October 18, 2018 by Rion_Starkiller

[KendraP]

Why would I assume they were going to bring out 2 new gear tiers before altering content difficulty? In the past new gear tiers and methods of gearing always came with major expansions. This is not a major expansion (i.e. the as-yet-unknown 6.0). Thus, they are inadvertantly nerfing PVE as this will make that content easier, while making a prolonged PVP grind because, unfortunately, gear does matter. Is there anyone here who thinks bolstered 230 (or worse) is the same as full 242, much less 248?

 

Further, back when i was playing this game regularly i spent about 4 hours a night running a primarily pvp guild. At the peak, there were about 15 toons i used regularly, of about 7 different specs (guardian tank, guardian dps, sent, oper heals, sage heals, VG tank, and shadow tank). Thats 5 non-guardians who largely need their own gear - yes i share lightsabers and foci/shields where possible. Not to mention my guardians all need left sides, usually starting from 236

 

Despite this i have just under 20k comms. So I'll be able to outfit a toon pretty fast... but thats beside the point as many of my guildies were not the "hoarder" i was. They assumed that the tiers at least would remain the same and threw their comms to gear up alts as they were able. Gearing alts has long been a part of swtor - in the 4.x era, remember EV or KP highlighted HM week? Toward the end people were bringing toons that had absolutely no business attempting HM anything into it (a more memorable run involving a 55 sent comes to mind).

 

The point is: this unnecessarily isolates pvpers while trying to throw a bone to the puny MM community. PvE content is already supposedly tuned to 242 or 248 gear - can we expect another round of practically ubiquitous dps nerfs because the new gear makes things too easy? Its a slippery slope, and why in the past, new gear has always come with major expansions. I would have hoped they had learned their lesson with GC and later the introduction of 248.

 

Players do not want massive gear grind in this game - they proved that with the mass exodus caused by GC. Yes, the system improved... after too long for most of those who left to care. They are running off more and more long term subscribers with this horribly delusional view that more grinding will keep players around in the content slumps.

 

As i read someone else say somewhere else - I don't play swtor for the gear, I get the gear to play swtor. The gear is just a means to an end, not the defining brilliance.

Edited October 18, 2018 by KendraP

[Andryah]

1 crystal for 500 legacy UC's

per toon

per toon

per toon

per toon

per toon

 

Yep. Basically, in this alt friendly game.. this is exactly correct. The player who plays many alts will grind out the needed Masterworks faster, much faster if they are sitting on heaps of UCs in their pockets as the patch comes ... just like every other thing in this game that allows you to leverage alts.

 

Goes to show you how lacking in application of critical thinking skills and analysis some players are that they cannot see something on paper and immediately figure out the lowest path to success. They seem to be able to quickly figure that out when in game actually playing.. but until they can play and sort out the best/fastest path... they look at things very superficially.

Edited October 18, 2018 by Andryah

[Andryah]

As i read someone else say somewhere else - I don't play swtor for the gear, I get the gear to play swtor. The gear is just a means to an end, not the defining brilliance.

 

This is actually true for most MMO players in most MMOs. There are of course "gear collectors" and "min/maxers"

that will always chase gear.. but I see little signs of this being a major demographic in most MMOs, and even more so for this one.

 

In this particular instance.....If a player looks at the new tier of gear objectively... in almost all cases, they will conclude it's simply not worth the effort/resources and will just play on as currently geared... because.. as you and others have pointed out.. nothing has been added to this game that actually requires the new gear.

 

Here's a conspiracy theory to play with -----> maybe this is all a pre-6.0 experiment by the studio to determine once and for all how much players chase gear for gear sake VS chase gear to be able to play the game. If this were in fact true..... then players chasing this gear will send the message to the studio that what they did here is great and to do more of it... so I encourage players to be mindful of what they do about this gear... because the studio will be watching and analyzing logs to determine player motivators.

Edited October 18, 2018 by Andryah

[Rion_Starkiller]

Yes, then funnel the gear onto one toon via legacy armor and weapons.

[KendraP]

Yep. Basically, in this alt friendly game.. this is exactly correct. The player who plays many alts will grind out the needed Masterworks faster, much faster if they are sitting on heaps of UCs in their pockets as the patch comes ... just like every other thing in this game that allows you to leverage alts.

 

Goes to show you how lacking in application of critical thinking skills and analysis some players are that they cannot see something on paper and immediately figure out the lowest path to success. They seem to be able to quickly figure that out when in game actually playing.. but until they can play and sort out the best/fastest path... they look at things very superficially.

 

Ok lets do some math:

There are 2 crystals avaliable per toon per week for just doing content. Because they are bind on pickup, you cannot get so much as one piece per week by content.

 

So now we have another 2 at 1500 UC (with an unknown as to how it increases after that, or if its even possible). For now, Im assuming it either becomes prohibitively expensive or impossible after those 2.

 

So you can get essentially one piece per toon per week. Thats 14 toons you need to run through the required content and 1500*14=21,000 UC, all in addition to the reputation grind that I'm not counting because you can run it simultaneously.

 

How many people have 14 toons AND 21000 UC? I do, but out of all my maybe 15 guildies, I am the only one. There are other people with 14 toons, there are other people with 21k UC, but I am the only one that checks both blocks.

 

This is the same for all non-MM raiders. There is no method of expediting the process via pvp, like there is for the other tiers. As someone who participates in all group activities in this game except MM raiding, and considering that max level gear is as necessary for PvP as PvE, why should I gear slower and thus, grant the MMers an advantage in my preferred area of play - pvp.

 

And all of this also ignores the time commitment - the different daily areas vary wildly in how long they take to complete. CZ is a cakewalk, but say section X or Yavin inevitably take longer.

 

Also, I play because supposedly it's fun. I tried to move to WoW. The level grind was literally putting me to sleep. The industry trend toward gamers with money is slowly killing off the basement dwellers. After all, people with money can also spend money on the cartel market.

 

As I said earlier, there is a balance between rewarding players who spend more time in game and not running players off by making it prohibitively difficult to be competitive. If you don't have the time to MM - you probably don't have the time to grindfest either.

 

And again, what ia the point of adding another superficial grindfest in the first place?

[Rion_Starkiller]

Ok lets do some math:

There are 2 crystals avaliable per toon per week for just doing content. Because they are bind on pickup, you cannot get so much as one piece per week by content.

 

So now we have another 2 at 1500 UC (with an unknown as to how it increases after that, or if its even possible). For now, Im assuming it either becomes prohibitively expensive or impossible after those 2.

 

So you can get essentially one piece per toon per week. Thats 14 toons you need to run through the required content and 1500*14=21,000 UC, all in addition to the reputation grind that I'm not counting because you can run it simultaneously.

 

How many people have 14 toons AND 21000 UC? I do, but out of all my maybe 15 guildies, I am the only one. There are other people with 14 toons, there are other people with 21k UC, but I am the only one that checks both blocks.

 

This is the same for all non-MM raiders. There is no method of expediting the process via pvp, like there is for the other tiers. As someone who participates in all group activities in this game except MM raiding, and considering that max level gear is as necessary for PvP as PvE, why should I gear slower and thus, grant the MMers an advantage in my preferred area of play - pvp.

 

And all of this also ignores the time commitment - the different daily areas vary wildly in how long they take to complete. CZ is a cakewalk, but say section X or Yavin inevitably take longer.

 

Also, I play because supposedly it's fun. I tried to move to WoW. The level grind was literally putting me to sleep. The industry trend toward gamers with money is slowly killing off the basement dwellers. After all, people with money can also spend money on the cartel market.

 

As I said earlier, there is a balance between rewarding players who spend more time in game and not running players off by making it prohibitively difficult to be competitive. If you don't have the time to MM - you probably don't have the time to grindfest either.

 

And again, what ia the point of adding another superficial grindfest in the first place?

 

It seems reasonable to do 3 crystals per toon per week. But if you wanted to full-out gear 1 toon in the first week you could do it with 14 toons and 21000 UC. And you have a month to save up 21000 UC. (assuming we aren't missing something and our maths are correct)

 

That said, I'm not sure why new gear is being added for 1 daily area + 1 NiM version of an operation. Is there some other new content? New gear should have been implemented with 6.0, in my opinion. That said, I personally won't mind the gear grind. It'll give me something to do in a game where I'm bored. And it'll go nicely with my Conquest mat farming.

 

More food for thought: If pulling 248 mods costs 48k to remove, how much will 258's cost?

Edited October 18, 2018 by Rion_Starkiller

[Andryah]

Ok lets do some math:.....

 

I understand.. but the fact is.. there are a lot of players with a lot of level 70 alts that can in fact use them to bypass the UC throttling very easily. THAT is the point.

 

As for who has how many UCs... it will vary by player. There are players in this very discussion across the different threads that freely admit they are sitting on 50K+ UCs. The throttles on trading UCs for MWS are in fact specifically to inhibit (not prevent completely... but inhibit) them spending to get all their gear right up front on day one.

 

There seem to be two main demographics in UC holders:

 

1) the person who plays a lot of PvP and only does so with a few charcters.. and as such.. spent all they needed to long ago.. and have simply been accumulating them for many months now with nothing much to spend them on. One could surmise that one point of the studio allowing UCs for purchasing gear via the vendor path is to soak most of these unused UCs up before 6.0. Why? so they do not have to go through another trade-in debacle if they make UCs obsolete with 6.0 (speculative at this point.... no hints that they are doing this).

 

2) the person who mainly gears their main(s) and a range of alts via UCs. These players will typically not be sitting on large stacks of unused UCs.. because they have been spending them on alts. This by the way, was their choice to do.. and as such.. they will be at a disadvantage to the UC hoarders... but you know what.. life is not always fair inside an MMO, and personal choices do have consequences sometimes. These players will take longer to gear.

 

AND.... keep in mind.. there is a faction grind to get to hero status on the Ossus BEFORE you can access the gear vendors. If it is like most other faction grinds in this game over the years.. the means at least two weeks before any player can get to the vendors because there will be a throttle on the faction to draw it out such that nobody with more time on their hands then anything else can simply grind it out by lunch time on patch day. This would be the usual fairness scheme to balance with other pathways to the gear (such as crafting.. which requires time to gather materials).

 

And again, what ia the point of adding another superficial grindfest in the first place?

 

Kendra.. to use a common metaphor..... you are preaching to the choir here .. because I have stated in every discussion topic on the new gear that it is marginal improvement for a lot of effort or resources for gear that really is not necessary at this time. HENCE... the only people who really need the gear are min/maxers and gear collectors... and perhaps some of the ranked PvP players who feel they cannot step into ranked unless they are 100% BiS (which is a determination and choice on their part.. not a requirement of the game).

Edited October 18, 2018 by Andryah

[Jdast]

And again, what ia the point of adding another superficial grindfest in the first place?

 

The cynic in me thinks it is for two mutually reinforcing reasons:

 

1) 6.0 is still a long way off. As in -- Summer of 2019 at the earliest. No way they are going to trample on Anthem's release and the fact they are notoriously slow at releasing content.

 

2) Developing NiM GotM took a relatively small amount of resources. Add in a new tier of gear and it gives us hamsters something to chase after (note: I'm not a hamster).

 

At a minimum, it certainly got the forums going again.

 

Dasty

 

P.S. Eric or Keith, please just answer the Bolster question once and for all. It would literally take 30 seconds.

[Andryah]

The cynic in me thinks it is for two mutually reinforcing reasons:

 

1) 6.0 is still a long way off. As in -- Summer of 2019 at the earliest. No way they are going to trample on Anthem's release and the fact they are notoriously slow at releasing content.

 

2) Developing NiM GotM took a relatively small amount of resources. Add in a new tier of gear and it gives us hamsters something to chase after (note: I'm not a hamster).

 

At a minimum, it certainly got the forums going again.

 

Dasty

 

P.S. Eric or Keith, please just answer the Bolster question once and for all. It would literally take 30 seconds.

 

I still think it's a test (some would say a trap!)

 

With no new content requiring said gear.. it would be an interesting test by the studio to see what people will grind on and why... and in this case content need is not a driver.

 

As such.. if the new gear is chased by a large number of players, in the absence of actual real need, it will tell the studio that gear grinds for the sake of grinding for gear not actually needed..... actually works as a hamster wheel to keep players busy.

 

I understand that you, some others, and also myself and many in my guild have aready concluded that this gear is not worth the chase in terms of time and resources. I am skeptical that a lot of players actually assess and do a personal cost benefit analysis on something like this. Instead.. they hop on the hamster wheel as soon as the studio drops it into the game... and appear to be both prone and happy to gripe about it all the way. There are some players in our guild that want this gear.. and so we plan to crank up the crafting factory once again... but I think our volume of output will be much less this time due to lack of true need.

 

And.. as you noted... it has livened up the forums again.. which proves the players are still on the forum.. they just need controversy to fuel activity. Maybe this was the goal of the studio all along.

Edited October 18, 2018 by Andryah

[Rion_Starkiller]

I'm guessing they intended to do T5 all along with Galactic Command. But you know... we made it crystal clear what we think about RNGearing. Edited October 18, 2018 by Rion_Starkiller