The PVP community has spoken...how does Keith respond?

[Andryah]

Absolutely false.

LoL, it was never broken. It’s completely laughable that you think so. Talk to ANY pvper from back in the 3.3 - 4.x period and you will get the response that it was nearly perfect.

 

Not broken.. I agree.

 

BUT ... keep in mind.. it DID segregate players by having separate PvP and PvE gear sets. If you want more pops in PvP.... you would like as many players as possible able to queue with no specific gear barrier, right (ie: expertise).

 

If you put expertise back in the game (or anything similar that makes PvP gear different then PvE gear) .... you will have less players who mostly PvE and casually PvP even bother to queue with you for PvP. I'm pretty sure this is why the studio homogenized the gear... to create less barriers to casual PvP players queuing for PvP matches. I also think this is why the studio diverged from their initial announcement of the tier 5 gear being crafted only... and instead... provided a pathway for both PvE, PvP, solo play, crafted gear ... and the ability to combine them if a player wanted to accelerate gear acquisition compared to only using one pathway.

Edited November 7, 2018 by Andryah

[Andryah]

As a "casual" PvPer (30-45 min/day, about 2-3 days max a week), I can tell you that from a PvP perspective the 4.x system was as good as it gets. It was the only time since launch where I was able to gear (albeit slowly) to BiS through my very casual play. I actually had enough comms by the end to gear a few toons. I would be shocked if you can find PvPers who had a problem with it. At no other time before or since was I able to get fully geared -- simply don't have the time.

 

I think the old system you liked..... made gearing in BiS too easy (by any classic measure in MMOs) ... and I think the studio made that same conclusion by eliminating it. They were at the time wanting to make gear easier to obtain.. and went a bit too far I think.... at least for the BiS category of gear. Besides.. you could bypass a lot of gear needs in 4.x by simply going with crafted gear which was plentiful and pretty good gear once we got the 4.x crafting overhaul a few months after 4.0 dropped.

 

This studio DOES have an ongoing issue with finding the right balance point around anything.. and players with their special interest complaints exacerbate this even further. But this has been true since launch... and as such.. veteran players like you, me, and others, should really have that baked in to our expectations by now. Not saying that we have to like it, only that we have to realize it is what it is and it represents one part of the challenge for players.

The way you describe your preference above by the way... does actually map to this new gearing system in 5.10... just at what currently appears to be a slower pace for the very casual player then the very quick pathway of 4.x (time wise, casual).

Edited November 7, 2018 by Andryah

[mhobin]

I think the old system you liked..... made gearing in BiS too easy (by any classic measure in MMOs) ... and I think the studio made that same conclusion by eliminating it. They were at the time wanting to make gear easier to obtain.. and went a bit too far I think.... at least for the BiS category of gear. Besides.. you could bypass a lot of gear needs in 4.x by simply going with crafted gear which was plentiful and pretty good gear once we got the 4.x crafting overhaul a few months after 4.0 dropped.

 

This studio DOES have an ongoing issue with finding the right balance point around anything.. and players with their special interest complaints exacerbate this even further. But this has been true since launch... and as such.. veteran players like you, me, and others, should really have that baked in to our expectations by now. Not saying that we have to like it, only that we have to realize it is what it is and it represents one part of the challenge for players.

The way you describe your preference above by the way... does actually map to this new gearing system in 5.10... just at what currently appears to be a slower pace for the very casual player then the very quick pathway of 4.x (time wise, casual).

 

Correct me if I’m wrong we had experience in gear during the time frame he is talking about. Crafted gear was not usable in PvP. Even so it did not have set bonuses which is a huge disadvantage in PvP.

 

Even in PVE for progression raiding nodoby would choose a full set of crafted gear over the 2nd highest level gear with set bonuses.

[jimmorrisson]

As i read someone else say somewhere else - I don't play swtor for the gear, I get the gear to play swtor. The gear is just a means to an end, not the defining brilliance.

 

Those of us who only get gear to play SWTOR are not playing as intended. Below is a excerpt from the PVP Bolster Increase topic. I've seen this posted once before when bolster increase was brought up.

 

If there is no gear chase from PvP that removes all progression from PvP gameplay and it also removes a part of the reward structure.

 

5.* - It's all meant to be a gear chase. A convoluted combination of loot crates, two currencies (Unass Components, Command Tokens), new end game experience points, along with running back and forth between two rooms just to use vendors. That is in addition to a new reputation system and added extreme difficulty mode of an existing operation where a players are fished in to play via gear lures.

 

Here is my streamlined system:

 

1 currency

2 vendor rooms: One for Force users and one for Gun users

and making the new 258 gear Tier 5.

 

That way when the rare new player comes along and asks "how to I play end game" just tell them "play game, trade up old gear for new gear using the 1 currency"

Edited November 14, 2018 by jimmorrisson

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

Correct me if I’m wrong we had experience in gear during the time frame he is talking about. Crafted gear was not usable in PvP. Even so it did not have set bonuses which is a huge disadvantage in PvP.

 

Even in PVE for progression raiding nodoby would choose a full set of crafted gear over the 2nd highest level gear with set bonuses.

 

Yup yup, agreed.

 

Set bonus is non-negotiable, that's a must have.

 

Crafted gear, even if the stats were higher would still be inferior do to the lack of set bonus. It's important in both PVE and PVP.

 

Chances are progression raiders would take one look at the gear and say you need to get the set bonus gear over stats. In end game someone without a set bonus looking for group content, it generally doesn't speak well for their experience. But, you gotta start somewhere.

 

You can get away with it if your just starting out in SM operations, that's the time you start gearing up for group content, and SM is generally forgiving enough to provide a good environment to acquire set bonus gear. That's when your really starting to get your feet wet for more advanced group content.

 

SM-HM-NiM = Crawl-Walk-Run.

 

Good Times

 

In PVP there is no luxury of getting 'your feet wet' and PVPers aren't a very 'forgiving' lot

 

It's kill or be killed. Simplicity at it's finest.

 

That's my brand =p

Edited November 14, 2018 by WayOfTheWarriorx

[Palaemus]

It doesn't matter in the warzones. Skill is about the only thing that matters in the warzones. When I came back 5 months ago I still had my 208 gear, and I was killing just as many 248s as I was any other player. Gear only really matters out in the open world, but like I said you hardly EVER see anyone in the open world PvP instances.

 

 

Wow nice of you to revisit 2013 with open world "pvp". You are clueless tho, and the fact that you kill 248 with 208 gear just like "any other 248" is cracking me up. Better stick to star citizen2025.

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

Wow nice of you to revisit 2013 with open world "pvp". You are clueless tho, and the fact that you kill 248 with 208 gear just like "any other 248" is cracking me up. Better stick to star citizen2025.

 

Ouch.