The PVP community has spoken...how does Keith respond?

[Ld-Siris]

It doesn't matter in the warzones. Skill is about the only thing that matters in the warzones. When I came back 5 months ago I still had my 208 gear, and I was killing just as many 248s as I was any other player. Gear only really matters out in the open world, but like I said you hardly EVER see anyone in the open world PvP instances.

 

It actually mattered even less in owpvp then in a war zone the exception being if you are on a level 70 planet. Otherwise level sync takes over.

 

From my personal experience the gear does help a bit. Especially in classes that don’t have self heals. When I came back in my 208s and played to when I bought 246 off of gym there was a noticeable increase in survivability and dps. That said the going from 230 to 248 with new augs is a much larger jump than going from 248 to 258 with same augs. And yes I know bolster. (But also bolster was much lower back then)

 

It matters for ranked a lot. I wouldn't say it's required for unranked at all, but it does help. Personally I'm going to completely stop playing ranked until I get 258. But honestly the grind looks so long I don't know if I'm going to bother. You will see people in PvP with the new gear though. Anyone desperate to climb in rating will be buying that as soon as possible to try and get an advantage over people still queuing in 248.

 

Yes but it will be weeks and weeks before anyone can get the full gear. The people running the ops can only run it once a week per character. And using the UCs will take god aweful amount to convert over. Even the hard core raiders won’t have it out the gate. Let alone anyone else.

Edited October 23, 2018 by Ld-Siris

[Totemdancer]

I really just hope they've seen the backlash to this...Keith has proven he's willing to listen to customer feedback...they have time to change how this is going to work and time to tweak numbers. I don't care that we're getting new gear - it's needed in many ways...but it needs to be more readily available for ALL players, not just the ones who need it least.

 

The silence and lack of communication isn’t installing any hope for a lot of us who’ve been around for a long time, Bioware being silent usually means sticking their heads in the sand and doubling down on a bad decision.

Usually if they are listening, they tell us they are to alleviate fears or to ask for more feed back. This communications blackout doesn’t bode well for what’s coming.

[olagatonjedi]

The silence and lack of communication isn’t installing any hope for a lot of us who’ve been around for a long time, Bioware being silent usually means sticking their heads in the sand and doubling down on a bad decision.

Usually if they are listening, they tell us they are to alleviate fears or to ask for more feed back. This communications blackout doesn’t bode well for what’s coming.

Lol, just like the minority community who sticks their head in the ground and believes their feedback is whats best for the game.

[KendraP]

Lol, just like the minority community who sticks their head in the ground and believes their feedback is whats best for the game.

 

What is the point of this comment?

Yes there are posters who can get a bit too comvinced they're right and want their narrow view adopted at the expense of another part of the community, but by and large, most people realize that more people playing the game benefits everyone.

 

There is a middle ground between bull headed stubborness (which I admit I can be guilty of) and the total lack on communication. And, in fact one results in the other, as if BW were a bit more open about their reasoning, and some decisions didn't seem overwhelmingly stupid or like a failure to learn from past experience, people might be more open to their ideas.

 

Yes there will always be naysayers, but i do not believe that a majority of players are naysayers or yes men. Most are going to lie somewhere in the middle.

[Fallensouls]

Lets discuss the new armor grind and why it is a mistake. I have 10 characters I like to pvp with. It gets expensive and time consuming replacing armor and augments for that many characters that you like to pvp on. As a pvper you can imagine I dont have the credits or resources to continually regrind my gear and replace augments for that many characters. It upsets people to have to do that every year. Especially if you would rather pvp than craft. Edited October 24, 2018 by Fallensouls

[TUXs]

The silence and lack of communication isn’t installing any hope for a lot of us who’ve been around for a long time, Bioware being silent usually means sticking their heads in the sand and doubling down on a bad decision.

Usually if they are listening, they tell us they are to alleviate fears or to ask for more feed back. This communications blackout doesn’t bode well for what’s coming.

No it doesn't...and I'm foolishly optimistic at times...

[Andryah]

They owe the PvP community an answer on the status of bolster with the release of this new gear. Stupid for them to stay silent on this particular matter.. seeing as it is a simple matter of adjusting a variable in the code. They clearly misrepresented the first tease about this gear being available only through crafting, when in fact.. the vendor path is probably a better path for most players to be honest.... PvP and PvE. By revealing the gear is available through a number of roughly equal grindfests and not commenting on bolster is just shooting themselves in the foot. [ Maybe.. maybe they have not commented on bolster yet, because they realize making bolster = the gear not needed for PvP would create an even bigger backlash with PvE players who will also want bolster on the PvE side. /shrug they should still have foreseen the need to comment on plans with regard to bolster]

 

Beyond that.. stop thinking that this gear is all about PvP. It's not.. so replying to one special interest group (a very emotional, demanding, and inflammatory group.. based on the forum discussion on the new gear) serves no constructive purpose.

 

This PvP player meltdown by some (yes... spreading exaggerated narratives, absent actual facts, and pretending PvP is all that matters in this game is effectively a meltdown narrative) over the new gear is just the tail trying to wag the dog.

 

News alert... this new gear is clearly meant to be a severe grind for all players... and we have enough visibility into it now to actually see this to be the case. Most players will simply skip it and never look back. Why? Because when 6.0 drops.... random green drops from missions will make this new tier 5 gear largely obsolete.

 

This thread pretends that PvPers are somehow a special class of player in this game and deserving of special communications and much hand holding by the studio to prevent hurt feelings. In reality, players in an MMO are all one large ratpack from an MMO studio perspective, regardless of the different expressions of special interests.

Edited October 24, 2018 by Andryah

[KendraP]

First, I have been perfectly reasonable by and large, even spent the better part of a day last week attempting to come to a conclusion as to how "good" the new gear is (as tentatively stated on dulfy).

 

Its probably not a huge deal - a 5% total stat pool increase with no hope of reaching the new alacrity tier. Even the 236 augment release came with 3 stats (as opposed to 2).

 

I don't like the gear for several reasons, most of which I've already stated:

 

Primarily - why? Its pointless. The people who were around for content based gear grinds are long gone. By and large, if we're still here spending money we're also accepting the fsct that new content will be few and far between. Frankly, at this point, I'd rather them put effort into fixing the bugs and addressing some of the dumb decisions they made in the past rather than coming up with new (and inevitably underwhelming) content.

 

Secondly, there is no PvE content that is tuned to the new gear. The new op must be completable without it (as that's the primary way to get it), and no old content is being retuned. So again, why? Its a pointless waste of effort they could hypothetically be spending addressing other issues.

 

Thirdly, there is no PvE content that requires it, but it does give some PvEers an advantage (the importance of which is debatable and theoretical unless someone on PTS has input) over PvPers assuming PvE is the fastest way to gear. This is why it makes PvPers feel alienated. I don't like the idea - but if the difference is like going from 236 to 240 augments, I also won't really care.

 

Fourth, IF the rumors of enhancements and mods NOT being exchangable between item pieces (i.e. pull a enhancement out of a glove and put it in a hat or whatever) it is both preventing optimization AND customization. Unless of course, the other types of enhancements drop in crates, which, based on the tank situation, are rarer than a needle in a haystack. You have a higher probability of not believing in the moon landing (approximately 6% of americans) or thinking the earth is flat (approximately 2% of americans) than finding a 248b mod or high endurance enhancement currently. This is not a functional gear grind but an absolutely stupid decision.

 

All of these point to an inordinately long grind, which would seem to imply this is a futless attempt to create a gear grind to keep players interested, which in turn would imply 6.0 is a looong way off and they're trying to keep people around.

 

To BW all you needed to do to keep this as my primary game was not muck up what you had already. Each time you destroyed what I enjoyed I found something else. The PVP "rating" system was the end of the line for me. Continue down this path of completely misinterpreting or ignoring player concerns and even your futless gear grinds will not retain players.

 

TLDR: the new gear grind is an obvious and pointless attempt to keep players that theoretically alienates part of the community and, if the rumors are true, kills off optimization and customization.

[olagatonjedi]

What is the point of this comment?

Yes there are posters who can get a bit too comvinced they're right and want their narrow view adopted at the expense of another part of the community, but by and large, most people realize that more people playing the game benefits everyone.

 

There is a middle ground between bull headed stubborness (which I admit I can be guilty of) and the total lack on communication. And, in fact one results in the other, as if BW were a bit more open about their reasoning, and some decisions didn't seem overwhelmingly stupid or like a failure to learn from past experience, people might be more open to their ideas.

 

Yes there will always be naysayers, but i do not believe that a majority of players are naysayers or yes men. Most are going to lie somewhere in the middle.

I cant realistically expect BW to list all of the criteria for making the decisions they make, even with the great changes. An MMO has hundreds of interlinked systems to consider when making any change, as one small change can create an imbalance in another area of the game. Thsy are limited to giving very general reasoning because it would be too tedious, and likely a hundred points of contention, if they listed every reason involved.

[olagatonjedi]

Wait, that perfectly describes olag.... Oh I see what you did there.

Obviously you dont read (or understand) my posts. But there is still opportunity for you.

[KendraP]

I cant realistically expect BW to list all of the criteria for making the decisions they make, even with the great changes. An MMO has hundreds of interlinked systems to consider when making any change, as one small change can create an imbalance in another area of the game. Thsy are limited to giving very general reasoning because it would be too tedious, and likely a hundred points of contention, if they listed every reason involved.

 

I agree they are limited to giving general reasons. The problem is they do not even do that.

 

For instance, why are we getting another gear grind? No new content requires it, thus it will either piss off PvPers, be pointless, or both. Even assuming its practically going to be pointless, which is essentially the best case scenario, the effort would seem to have been better spent elsewhere.

 

And new gear without content that "needs" it is potentially a massive imbalance. So why bother? If they sre as limited on resources as we think, they would be better off cutting the stupid and setting better priorities.

[olagatonjedi]

I agree they are limited to giving general reasons. The problem is they do not even do that.

 

For instance, why are we getting another gear grind? No new content requires it, thus it will either piss off PvPers, be pointless, or both. Even assuming its practically going to be pointless, which is essentially the best case scenario, the effort would seem to have been better spent elsewhere.

 

And new gear without content that "needs" it is potentially a massive imbalance. So why bother? If they sre as limited on resources as we think, they would be better off cutting the stupid and setting better priorities.

They have made it very clear that the new gear serves no purpose other than a gear grind for those that enjoy that aspect of the game. What benefit do pvp changes they made have for a pve player? Same point. They continue to be consistent with these changes focused on different populations of players (even minority groups) to prevent any stagnation. I dont see what is so hard to understand.

[KendraP]

They have made it very clear that the new gear serves no purpose other than a gear grind for those that enjoy that aspect of the game. What benefit do pvp changes they made have for a pve player? Same point. They continue to be consistent with these changes focused on different populations of players (even minority groups) to prevent any stagnation. I dont see what is so hard to understand.

 

Actually that's not even slightly the same. The PvP changes have no implications for the PvE community (in terms of new maps, matchmaking, and "rating").

 

New gear is at best a pointless chase after a shiny and at worst gives a small percent of players an advantage in PvP.

 

So again, the simplier answer would be to leave gear introductions for major expansions.

 

I also would think the progression raiders left a long time ago, and this is probably not going to bring them back. They're either off in other games, or doing other content here.

 

Finally, that assumes you are right in their idea - where did they say that was their motivation?

[Andryah]

I agree they are limited to giving general reasons. The problem is they do not even do that.

 

For instance, why are we getting another gear grind? No new content requires it, thus it will either piss off PvPers, be pointless, or both. Even assuming its practically going to be pointless, which is essentially the best case scenario, the effort would seem to have been better spent elsewhere.

 

And new gear without content that "needs" it is potentially a massive imbalance. So why bother? If they sre as limited on resources as we think, they would be better off cutting the stupid and setting better priorities.

 

We get it.. you don't like them adding new gear for "no reason". And sorry, but this gear will not create "imbalance" of any notable measure in game. You yourself have done a fair job with the math... this crap offers only nominal improvements. Having it or not having it.. makes little real difference. If 5% more gear power makes or breaks a player in MM OPs content.. I contend they are using gear as a crutch and not working at their skill curve. Same for PvP. People seem to forget that the RNG element of all combat equations (and hence random variability in attack damage and defensive mitigations) can and will swamp out a 5% improvement in gear when looked at on average.

 

Thing is.. there is a reason --> yet another thing to grind on.

 

For the most part... other then possibly character leveling... MMOs are all about the grind... which is why players get burned out on them. And please.. stop acting like the new gear is the only grind being put into the game with 5.10.

 

I don't think the new gear is a requirement for any players in this game currently ..... but I acknowledge that historically.... items... particularly weapons and armor, have been and continue to be primary grind-food for MMO players. I don't get it.. but it would be fool hardy to pretend this is not a known attribute of a good number of MMO players. Apparently... completing a grind and getting the resulting rewards IS a thing for some players. Personally, I am more pragmatic about grinds in MMOs... I simply bypass them if they represent a poor return on time/energy/resources invested from my perspective. However, unlike you... I understand that this will appeal to some players and has absolutely no effect upon me or any other player that simply does not see the gear to be worth the effort.

 

You and I are essentially in violent agreement about the nature of this new tier of gear ---> not needed for current content. Where we differ is I see that it has no effect upon any player really.. other then marginal improvement in stats... whereas you appear to see it as a personal affront. Neither of us is going to grind for it, right? Because we both understand it offers nothing notable that is worth the grind, right? In my case, there is always content and items added by a patch that I simply have no interest in and will not focus effort on.. and that frankly is the nature of MMOs.. because they have to appeal to a range of player interests and wants. But just because I see no value in the gear, does not mean it should not be considered and produced. There are gear min/maxers in all MMOs... and they love this sort of thing... so more power to them in my view.

Edited October 24, 2018 by Andryah

[KendraP]

So who does the grind appeal to, exactly? I proposed the tiny proportion of NiM raiders, most of whom left the game years ago.

 

A grind must have a point if it is to be effective. I try to speak primarily from personal experience, but without more information than we will ever have, one isolated incident is statistically insignificant.

 

I see new gear without purpose as an issue because from what I can see it is continuing to chase people off. Only BW can know if their changes are gaining more new players than they are running off. From my vantage point, it is running off the last maybe 3 players who chose to stick it out through the "rating" nonsense.

 

So again, if there is a reason the reward (i.e. player retention or gains BECAUSE of the new gear tier) is greater than the risk (i.e. player losses because of the new gear), I would like to know. But since they aren't going to give an answer, much less a better one than the stale carrot idea I keep seeing thrown around, we will never know.

 

And its hardly personal. I want them to make decsions that are in the best interest of the game, and from the perspective i can see as a guild leader, former raider, and PvPer, their supposedly limited effort is being wasted in retention efforts that are effectively running people off at worst, or keeping them for other stuff entirely unrelated at best.

Edited October 24, 2018 by KendraP

[olagatonjedi]

Actually that's not even slightly the same. The PvP changes have no implications for the PvE community (in terms of new maps, matchmaking, and "rating").

 

New gear is at best a pointless chase after a shiny and at worst gives a small percent of players an advantage in PvP.

 

So again, the simplier answer would be to leave gear introductions for major expansions.

 

I also would think the progression raiders left a long time ago, and this is probably not going to bring them back. They're either off in other games, or doing other content here.

 

Finally, that assumes you are right in their idea - where did they say that was their motivation?

Its exactly the same. The acquisition of the new gear will be limited, and slow. Its impact on the game will likely be minimal. But it will appeal to the gear hunters as it is intended, and give them something to spend their time doing (remember u might not think its fun, but they might).

[TUXs]

And its hardly personal. I want them to make decsions that are in the best interest of the game, and from the perspective i can see as a guild leader, former raider, and PvPer, their supposedly limited effort is being wasted in retention efforts that are effectively running people off at worst, or keeping them for other stuff entirely unrelated at best.

Isn't that the truth? I love when people assume it's because we want something or feel entitled to something...it's about the health of the damn game, not personal desires...I mean, I guess that could be the same thing since I want this game to be more appealing and attract, and retain, more players, but that's because it's a form of entertainment I truly enjoy...not because it benefits me in-game.

 

edit: You're right Kendra...please ignore the people trying to troll/argue with you...they're clearly not here with the same intent you have.

Edited October 24, 2018 by TUXs

[olagatonjedi]

Isn't that the truth? I love when people assume it's because we want something or feel entitled to something...it's about the health of the damn game, not personal desires...I mean, I guess that could be the same thing since I want this game to be more appealing and attract, and retain, more players, but that's because it's a form of entertainment I truly enjoy...not because it benefits me in-game.

 

edit: You're right Kendra...please ignore the people trying to troll/argue with you...they're clearly not here with the same intent you have.

There are no guarantees that every change will cater to any specific group, guild, etc. The more people who feel they are being attended to, the more people will stay interested, but that doesnt mean every change needs to impact everyone, everytime.

[Ld-Siris]

The real reason they are coming out with this gear is they are pushing the 6.0 expansion back another year. With everything major expansion has been a level increase which makes gear irrelevant. So the question becomes, why push out a new tier of gear that takes longer to grind than any before it if there is a new expansion on the horizon? If 6.0 is supposed to be early 2019, most players that can actually grind the gear will only have a couple of pieces by the time it dropped.....

 

Makes you think what they changed for their 6.0 plans. Was it straight canceled vice even being pushed back another year...?

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

What is the point of this comment?

Yes there are posters who can get a bit too comvinced they're right and want their narrow view adopted at the expense of another part of the community, but by and large, most people realize that more people playing the game benefits everyone.

 

I think this is one of the most important considerations that's been brought up.

 

We can argue the merits and flaws of a system, whether or not something is necessary or even desirable, but, I think it would be foolish to push a view point so steadfastly and without considerations for others that it would become impossible to see that view point pushed through without potentially causing player loss on the other side of the argument. Neither PVPers or PVEers are more important or deserve a greater claim to anything than the other.

 

Now, I find myself of possessing some views that I can't help but acknowledge a majority of the PVPers don't share. Undoubtedly some of my views are effected by my raiding experience, which you too have, we are both PVPers and we have both been raiders and we can see both sides to things. Even still, I can't say I share all of your opinions, and that's fine, but despite not sharing some of them, I respect the validity of them from PVP POV.

 

Even thought I am solely a PVPer now and for a while now, I'm personally fine with either option [bIS gear or PVP gear], I don't think new gear is a bad idea, I'm very happy about it, and I LOVE gearing. I can't think of one other purist PVPer who feels the way I do about.

 

I don't think BIS gearing should be fast, I don't think it should be easy, I don't think there should be prices brakes, I think the gearing experience should be identical for every character played.That to me, seems perfectly reasonable for BIS gear.

 

That's why I think PVP gear would be the better option. Thing is though, even if they return to PVP gear, I think we are all smart enough to realize that's not going to happen before 5.10, in fact, I think it's fair to say their is very little chance that will happen before 6.0. When 6.0 drops tho, I can see it already being part of it.

 

So for the time being, while we are all sharing gear, I still can't take the view that BIS gearing shoild be any other way, it must be the way it is, because BIS is traditionally raiders gear and raiders don't want things the way PVPers want with regard to gearing.

 

I agree with you,there is no 'need' for new gear. We are already doing the content, we all know its more than doable as is. Unless there is a difficulty change, totally not needed. However, while it isn't needed to clear content, I do feel it is needed as a carrot, I do feel it is needed because of little new content, and I will always feel that it is an intrical part of the MMO experience by and large. Role-playing games are about getting bigger, faster, stronger, more powerful. That's what gearing speaks to many players, and I can't lie, I'm definately one of them. If it were up to me there would be a new tier of gear every 6 months - year and never longer.

 

But, I'm the one that's not part of the majority. I'm the one who has feelings not shared by most of my fellow PVPers. My view shouldn't be the more important one, and that's why I will go along with whatever the majority of PVPers want.

 

We have to consider other players views. We don't have to share them, but we hurt the game when our ideas become so ridgid that we would sooner sacrifce the game than have a different view be given equal consideration and opportunity. I don't think that means anything goes, mind you, just because it may make some happy, it has to be reasonable, and not overly offsensive to other players that might produce a player loss as well on that side of things.

 

5.10 is going to happen, the gear changes will take place, I'm open to all the ideas of other PVPers and will not stand against them, I am only saying that I don't think you guys should get your hopes up for a change that will not see 5.10 gearing happen as it's being proposed.

 

I support a change, but I can't in good conscious support making BIS gearing fast or easy or considerate of alts in the manner PVPers became accostumed to with PVP gear. That's something that PVP gear needs address. Raiding gear and PVPers can't work. There needs to be a seperation of gear again. Bolster is an option and an option that could possibly take place before 6.0, but, that won't help with players with 258 gear having a larger tertiary stat pool than those not in 258 gear, but that's a lot better than the alternative.. 230 vs 258 in PVP?, that's not teniable, that's not fair, and that can't work.

 

I see PVP gear the better option though for PVPers over bolster. I have no personal preferences any which way, I'm fine with any way they want to do it. How PVPers feel about it matters much more to me though, and they need a change. BIS gearing for PVPers, that just flat out doesn't and can't work.

Edited October 24, 2018 by WayOfTheWarriorx

[KendraP]

@grim i guess you answered my earlier question of "who is hanging around just waiting on another prolonged gear grind"

 

Out of personal interest, what is the attraction in a prolonged and arguably pointless grind? I personally would rather them revamp the effort they're expending on the pointless gear toward pretty much anything else (new anything, bug fixes, literally anything).

[Neulwen]

The main problem, for me at least, is not that it's another grind (though I would much prefer not to have one at this stage), but that it's unfair towards pvpers. We have been able to gear up for pvp by doing pvp so far (except 5.0) -- why change that? Why force those who only enjoy pvp into farming daily heroics, FPs or even NiM ops (the latter of which is completely far-fetched) to get gear that we need in pvp? People will tire of the game if they are forced into activities they don't enjoy in order to be competitive at the ones they do enjoy.

 

For me, I don't play often lately, but when I do, the "grind" is to improve/retain player skill in pvp. I won't be able to do that by farming daily heroics or FPs. It just seems like a waste of my time. On the other hand, if I don't gear up, I will be at a static disadvantage in pvp.

 

Yeh, we can convert UCs, but as others have pointed out, that will take ages, and the longer that takes, the more gear imbalance there will be in pvp, and that will just lead to more imbalanced and thus unfun games. And assuming that the cost stops increasing after 1000 UCs per crystal is also a "best case scenario" in this situation. From the sound of it I think it intends to be much more, but we will see, ofc. Perhaps we will get a bolster that works really well, so that the new gear will only be a 0.5% or something improvement in pvp, who knows, but it is likely that we won't.

 

5% stat increase is not insignificant in pvp.

 

Also we will have to farm up Hero rank (via pve) to even be able to buy the new gear.

Edited October 24, 2018 by Neulwen

[Lithdox]

The main problem, for me at least, is not that it's another grind (though I would much prefer not to have one at this stage), but that it's unfair towards pvpers. We have been able to gear up for pvp by doing pvp so far (except 5.0) -- why change that? Why force those who only enjoy pvp into farming daily heroics, FPs or even NiM ops (the latter of which is completely far-fetched) to get gear that we need in pvp? People will tire of the game if they are forced into activities they don't enjoy in order to be competitive at the ones they do enjoy.

 

For me, I don't play often lately, but when I do, the "grind" is to improve/retain player skill in pvp. I won't be able to do that by farming daily heroics or FPs. It just seems like a waste of my time. On the other hand, if I don't gear up, I will be at a static disadvantage in pvp.

 

Yeh, we can convert UCs, but as others have pointed out, that will take ages, and the longer that takes, the more gear imbalance there will be in pvp, and that will just lead to more imbalanced and thus unfun games. And assuming that the cost stops increasing after 1000 UCs per crystal is also a "best case scenario" in this situation. From the sound of it I think it intends to be much more, but we will see, ofc. Perhaps we will get a bolster that works really well, so that the new gear will only be a 0.5% or something improvement in pvp, who knows, but it is likely that we won't.

 

5% stat increase is not insignificant in pvp.

 

Also we will have to farm up Hero rank (via pve) to even be able to buy the new gear.

 

Yes. (Bump)

[jimmorrisson]

I really just hope they've seen the backlash to this...Keith has proven he's willing to listen to customer feedback...they have time to change how this is going to work and time to tweak numbers.

 

I don't care that we're getting new gear - it's needed in many ways...but it needs to be more readily available for ALL players, not just the ones who need it least.

 

The current producer has not only continued but expanded upon the previous producer's pyramid tier scheme known as "Galactic Command". Under the current producer the following was rolled out:

 

1. Expensive new augments which required farming Ranked PVP for crafting materials or purchasing cartel store gear to auction for credits to purchase the materials and/or the augments themselves.

 

2. Update 5.5. United Forces which saw all West Coast servers merged into a East Coast server then waited to the last possible moment to inform everyone about it.

 

3. Upcoming Update 5.10: This Holiday Season grind for more rep, more currencies, and attempt to complete a master (nightmare) mode version of an existing operation. All for the carrot incentive in the form of higher level gear.

 

Granted, Galactic Grind became easier, although unintentionally in the form of a daily and weekly bug which saw certain planetary missions yield 1133cxp each.

 

 

 

It doesn't matter in the warzones.

Skill is about the only thing that matters in the warzones.

 

When I came back 5 months ago I still had my 208 gear, and I was killing just as many 248s as I was any other player.

 

Gear only really matters out in the open world, but like I said you hardly EVER see anyone in the open world PvP instances.

 

This is fake news.

Gear does matter and you were being carried by geared players.

 

Also "Open World PVP" should be read as "Ganking PVP".

Edited October 25, 2018 by jimmorrisson

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

@grim i guess you answered my earlier question of "who is hanging around just waiting on another prolonged gear grind"

 

Out of personal interest, what is the attraction in a prolonged and arguably pointless grind? I personally would rather them revamp the effort they're expending on the pointless gear toward pretty much anything else (new anything, bug fixes, literally anything).

 

I'll be honest with you bro, it's almost certainly from my raider days. That's part of the pull for a lot of Raiders I believe, taking gear by force, Not earning, not buying it, having some enemy standing between you and the gear and the only way you get that gear is by killing it. If you can't kill that boss, than you don't deserve that gear heh.

 

I also feel like the carrot on the end of the stick is an important part of MMOs. It could be partially because I was a table top RPGer for so long and alot of mmos do tend to incorporate a similar mentality into the design. Getting better, getting bigger, getting stronger, getting more powerful.

 

I'm sure there are different reasons for different people as well naturally, but I find that when I am gearing, it doesn't really matter what I am doing, even if it's the same old thing, knowing that I'm working towards an improvement of some kind [even if the improvement isn't really all that big] it just makes everything more exciting.

 

Even now that I'm strictly a PVPer, I don't know why, but I still feel the same exact way. That said, however, I fully recognize that I am the odd man out, and that my opinion is safe to say in the vast minority.

 

At the end of the day, gearing or not, we're still going to be doing Warzones and Arenas, right? I was fully 248 geared out within about 2 weeks of it coming out, and all that time there has been no real way to improve, and yet, I'm still PVPing,but the more time that has passed, the less and less I feel the urge to play. Somedays I only do a few wzs and that's it. Part of that is due to cross factioning, that did take alot of the fun out of it for me, but I was already slowing down the game well before that.

 

I have no objection at all to going PVP gear, in fact I think it's the best way to go given the overwhelming prefernce in gearing that PVPers tend to hold. They don't want BIS gearing. For the sake of PVPers I hope they go with PVP gear or bolster. But, if they don't and it stays this way in terms of gearing, I may very well be the only PVPer who will be fine with it and actually get some real added enjoyment out of it. But, I'm not selfish enough to hope that's the way it goes. I want PVPers to be happy and what makes me happy isn't what makes them happy.

 

I cannot argue with your reasoning. I'm just a weirdo I guess heh

Edited October 26, 2018 by WayOfTheWarriorx