Discussion Topic: Game Update 5.4 and the Next Roadmap

[Zhiroc]

I'd like to eventually see some QoL improvements in gearing. Mind you, I'm not complaining about the CXP system itself--I've never been in better gear. It's just that aspects of the system itself feel... I guess "punishing" is the word. At times, even though I'm fairly satisfied with the gear I have, I get mightily annoyed at the process.

 

A crate hardly feels like a reward. The low drop rates of purples or golds makes you approach each one like you're dumpster-diving. Yeah, maybe you'll find a gem, but it's 90% trash. Cosmetic gear? Instant disintegrate. Any scrap other than purple? Instant disintegrate. Purple scrap? Yeah, I'll keep the ONE piece I get. Rep Tokens? Mostly disintegrate since I'm Champion with all but the CM-based ones and the two fleet ones. Schematics for static armor/weapons? Disintegrate. Blues or Greens? Disintegrate. Gifts are cool, and I'll keep them.

 

There's just too little of value in the crates. If you're going to give scrap, give lots--100 greens, maybe 50 blues, or 10-20 purples. Gifts are great, but are way too rare--each crate should have 5-10 purples and at least a couple golds, if not more. Cosmetic gear should be bound to legacy, though I'm not sure even that would be enough to make me keep any.

 

And then dups.... Players HATE dups. You luck out on gold gear, only to find it's the one you already have. Yes, RNG is RNG, but you really shouldn't have both low chance and risk of dups. One of those two things should go. Maybe dups should disassemble into unassembled components, so at least it's worth something towards gear you need and not just a few hundred CXP.. Or, maybe at least allow you to convert it to your alt spec, but that still is just a one-time dup use.

 

And other than crates, there's a lot of other annoyances with gearing. Get a new ear/implant/relic? Got to buy/craft another augment kit, and spend 40k for the slot. That's why using green/blue gear isn't worth it--without the augment, the lower rated stuff is better, and if you augment it, you're probably wasting creds on gear that will be outdated in a week.

 

Then there's the annoyances I have with modding. Almost 50k to rip out a gold mod? I'm sure that some will say it's a needed credit sink, but the problem is just how annoying it is. I get a new gold earpiece, and now not only do I need to spend the augmentation cost for it, but also if I then need to rebalance my enhancements, more credits. It's like I said earlier--it sometimes feels like getting new gear is a punishment. It takes the shine off of it.

 

And finally, most of us know to use only bound-to-legacy moddable shells. That way either a) you can pass the gear back and forth between pub/imp mirror classes; or b) you can pass the gear to a character who has the mod you need, without having to pay twice to rip the mod out. But why are mods bound to a char anyway, if the game lets you "hide" these bound mods in a piece of legacy gear? Just make all mods bound to legacy so we don't have to play these "games" doing what we're going to do anyways. And then, for extra brownie points, let mods of the same type and quality stack.

 

Oh, and fix the bug where you don't see the set bonus on an item after you've taken it out of the legacy hold. I've personally lost a set-bonus piece that way... Though if we could pass mods around without this rigamarole, it would be less of a big deal.

[dontbeswg]

 

But please feel free to continue asserting that the game has lost 80% of its playerbase because of the lack of a type of content only ever played by 20% of the playerbase.

 

That player base left for wow and final fantasy, those games don't have story but they do have raids... MASSIVE MULTIPLAYER.

 

If you want to enjoy the single player that's fine, but this is a multiplayer game and to ignore MASSIVE MULTIPLAYER content is to invite death.

[CountZart]

I've been here off and on since Day 1.

I have NEVER once done an Op.

 

The quantity and quality of the Ops isn't even on my radar, never has been, and it is highly unlikely it ever will be.

 

Why?

 

Because this game wasn't sold as "Operation led MMORPG".

 

It WAS sold as a MMORPG with unique and detailed Class and Faction storylines..

 

There is a coincidence, that Story (good story, not the FE/ET/Iokath rubbish) also started to slip at the same time as Ops were allowed to slip by the wayside.

 

I contend therefore, that a game that was sold as being led by High Quality Class / Faction Story Arcs started to lose customers when those Story Arcs stopped being delivered.

 

But please feel free to continue asserting that the game has lost 80% of its playerbase because of the lack of a type of content only ever played by 20% of the playerbase.

 

I mean that's an intelligent argument right there.... ...not.

 

All The Best

 

Haha Love it.

<---5% of my time ingame has been with OPS. Or even that... maybe 1%...

Thumbs up! (BUT I never liked stories, im here for the pve and pvp, so it seems like we are all so different)

The problem with SWTOR, is the following:

It has to many areas. It wants to reach out for to many different player groups.

Pvp, Pve (fp, heroics) Operation, GSF, and strongholders....

 

Its like WWE... all ages, genders and backgrounds watches it, and everyone wants different winners...

 

So please give BW a break. They are trying to "meet" with all grps of society at the same time. Which is IMPOSSIBLE!

[J_Fairfox]

We did read the whole thread and remember we didn't offer that as an option as progression is still part of PvP. Moving Bolster to 250 virtually eliminates the need to get gear and reduces the value for those who have earned Tier 4 pieces.

 

The right answer is we need to resolve the PvP gearing issues, so Bolster gets removed as a central issue.

 

Keith---

 

A simple issue for this; is to 1 bring back 8x8 in ranked; and then create teirs. and while unraked will have a heavy bolster; ranked would not. But after a few games ranked would highly likely start linking people with similar gear scores, or even implement an unoffical ranking that people can't see in unranked. The issue here is with lol populated severs., but maybe you only implement this update on the popular severs, Or introduce cross sever pvp.

[Ottoattack]

I don't think anything short of a full expansion will bring players back.

 

Nothing will at this point absent something like Final Fantasy when they did releam reborn kinda restructure. A new expansion may increase player count for like a month, but it will continue to fall further afterwards.

 

If BW continues this 1 FP, 1 ops and 1 daily every year, with limited class balance and no monitoring, it will continue to falter.

[Ottoattack]

Haha Love it.

<---5% of my time ingame has been with OPS. Or even that... maybe 1%...

Thumbs up! (BUT I never liked stories, im here for the pve and pvp, so it seems like we are all so different)

The problem with SWTOR, is the following:

It has to many areas. It wants to reach out for to many different player groups.

Pvp, Pve (fp, heroics) Operation, GSF, and strongholders....

 

Its like WWE... all ages, genders and backgrounds watches it, and everyone wants different winners...

 

So please give BW a break. They are trying to "meet" with all grps of society at the same time. Which is IMPOSSIBLE!

 

Actually, MMOs have to offer variety of content to have players come and stay. I came in the beginning for story, but stayed for PvP (at least in the periods I subbed), and had a stint doing ops in 2.0. If the game does not offer several alternatives it will have problems capturing and retaining player base, and all MMO do that.

 

The problem is BW offers too little in terms of content and support in exchange for what they charge.

[TUXs]

Your logic now is because Montreal studio is closing it means people don't like strongholds ... lol

I didn't say that at all and it's clear you missed my point. My point was, we don't have the time to add things that don't aim to increase the playerbase, I don't believe another new house does that. EA has proven they have no issue closing studios down - they just closed one of the most iconic Bioware offices that produced this years Mass Effect game...I don't want Austin to be next.

[Krylaancelo]

Season 8 Rewards - The rewards blog is nearly finished and will contain all the deets, including tier breakdowns and reward screenshots. I am pretty confident it will go up next week as well. I will give you a status update next week.

 

Checking back on this... Still think we'll see it this week? I (and basically everyone I play with) would be extremely happy to see the blog. Thanks.

Edited August 3, 2017 by Krylaancelo

[Zhiroc]

That player base left for wow and final fantasy, those games don't have story but they do have raids... MASSIVE MULTIPLAYER.

 

If you want to enjoy the single player that's fine, but this is a multiplayer game and to ignore MASSIVE MULTIPLAYER content is to invite death.

 

Times change. What used to be a "sports car" that could go 60 mph, is now something the cheapest of economy cars are expected to do and more. What traditionally defined the "MM" of MMO back in the mid-2000s does not seem terribly special. Even a 40-man ops (not even sure WoW still does those) seems not terribly large.

 

In my experience, the only MMO that has really pushed the "MM" boundaries is EvE online, with its thousand or more player space battles. Not only that, but the entire concept of the game is around the economy and politics of multi- tens of thousands players. While I have high praise for the concept and execution, being PvP-centric, the game has no place for me.

 

In my opinion, the downward slide of MMOs as a game type is due in part to the fact that it's not evolving, except perhaps graphically, from its roots. From the monetization model (subs becoming a non-starter now), to gameplay, it's not terribly different from 10 years ago. I guess that could be said of a number of genres, but the the difference is now that the playerbase (and more importantly, the potential playerbase) is no longer in tune with what the traditional MMO has to offer.

 

I grant that SWTOR has a difference from traditional MMOs, in having a story-centric campaign that offers not only full voiceover, but regular and constant conversation choices. To the extent that these actually alter outcomes... well, that's spotty at best., but there are few games out there that let you really feel like you've defined your character's personality like SWTOR. But that doesn't make it a great game in and of itself--in fact, I would say that BW's own KotOR and ME series did this better.

 

What I'm constantly on the look out for is an MMO that will break the mold, and offer the concepts of the community driven core of EvE, but applied to a mostly- (or at least half-and-half) PvE experience, where the actions of the players define the ongoing story told in around monthly editions--and not in a grind-alicious fashion of "do this op/mission for 10 rep/alignment/whatever points" and the highest total wins. What does this mean? I have no idea, frankly. It will be hard, and it will probably fail a few times too. But I'd like to see MMOs head towards actually feeling like an alternate reality, and not just a simplistic arcade game.

[chaharbagh]

Please make fixes to the codex entries.

[TUXs]

That player base left for wow and final fantasy, those games don't have story but they do have raids... MASSIVE MULTIPLAYER.

 

If you want to enjoy the single player that's fine, but this is a multiplayer game and to ignore MASSIVE MULTIPLAYER content is to invite death.

Well said. I believe Keith sees this and I trust he's working to correct the sins of the past 2+ years...but it takes time...time many aren't willing to afford Bioware any longer.

[casirabit]

I didn't say that at all and it's clear you missed my point. My point was, we don't have the time to add things that don't aim to increase the playerbase, I don't believe another new house does that. EA has proven they have no issue closing studios down - they just closed one of the most iconic Bioware offices that produced this years Mass Effect game...I don't want Austin to be next.

 

We haven't had a stronghold in 2 years (if memory serves me) and they gave us 2 this year. I don't see adding 2 strongholds in two years as wasting resources. You may not see the benefit of it but there are a lot of people that do. On Ebon Hawk a lot of the strongholds are used for community events. There was just one last weekend where people went to hang out for a party someone was hosting, so for a lot of people they are something important to them.

[Exly]

Well said. I believe Keith sees this and I trust he's working to correct the sins of the past 2+ years...but it takes time...time many aren't willing to afford Bioware any longer.

 

Unfortunately the current pace that they are on for the release of new multiplayer content is so slow. Back in the 2.0 days we got character customization upgrades, cz-198 with 2 flashpoints, and Oricon with 2 operations during the first 6 months after release.

 

Back then more people felt like it was worth it to pay for the game, and they wanted to play it. In the mean time the studio went in a direction that a large percentage of their audience did not like, and were no longer willing to pay for.

 

At this point I think that the studio needs to step up in a big way to get people to want to resub to the game and start playing it again., and even then, it might be too late if they don't show signs of being willing to put in a sustained effort of continually bringing new content to the game.

 

1 poorly designed daily area with some story attached to it, 1 stonghold and 2 ops bosses in the first 8 months after the release 0f 5.0 won't do much to bring people back. It will take a lot more than that, and I fear that the studio will never have the resources again to do what is necessary to revive this game.

 

p.s. Choices do matter, and their choice to focus all of their efforts into single player content for 2 years was a poor choice, and now we all suffer from the consequences of their choice.

[TUXs]

p.s. Choices do matter, and their choice to focus all of their efforts into single player content for 2 years was a poor choice, and now we all suffer from the consequences of their choice.

Clever! Sad, but very true.

[IoNonSoEVero]

That player base left for wow and final fantasy, those games don't have story but they do have raids... MASSIVE MULTIPLAYER.

 

If you want to enjoy the single player that's fine, but this is a multiplayer game and to ignore MASSIVE MULTIPLAYER content is to invite death.

 

The game was actually marketed as a MMORPG, and the original content was the eight class stories - not MMO content, per se. That's what SWTOR was known for, and that's what brought people in. People came in for KOTFE and KOTET, too.

 

If people already have games like WoW and Final Fantasy where they can raid to their heart's content, why turn SWTOR into a clone of that? Why not stick with what made it special to begin with, which was a deep commitment to storytelling and players' experiences immersing themselves in the various planets? Or at the very least, why throw that by the wayside?

[TUXs]

The game was actually marketed as a MMORPG, and the original content was the eight class stories - not MMO content, per se. That's what SWTOR was known for, and that's what brought people in. People came in for KOTFE and KOTET, too.

What part of MMORPG doesn't sound like an MMO to you? It's in the freaking name.

 

SWTOR wasn't known or anything - SWTOR's biggest claim to fame is it was the fastest AAA MMO to go F2P after release...not even APB went F2P faster. Over 2 million people bought the game...within months over half had quit. They didn't leave because there was a lack of story, most never even made it to the end of their 1st one, they left because the game was a complete and utter disaster at launch.

 

While some players did indeed return for KOTFE and KOTET, more didn't return.

[Rion_Starkiller]

Some are forgetting that people left in droves right after launch because of lack of elder game content -- such as Operations, for example. Edited August 3, 2017 by Rion_Starkiller

[TUXs]

Some are forgetting that people left in droves right after launch because of lack of elder game content -- such as Operations, for example.

Right?! It's clear they weren't here. The lack of end game is 100% what killed this game, not a lack of anything story. Most people didn't even finish A story.

[AlrikFassbauer]

Some are forgetting that people left in droves right after launch because of lack of elder game content -- such as Operations, for example.

 

Not me. I quit for a while because SWTOR has become far too much streamlined for my taste. A thing that most people are forgetting : SWTOr was SO MUCH changed that it might have met no more the TASTE of some players ...

 

People argueing here are insisting imho a bit too much on what THEY would have liked to have changed. Other possibilities don't seem to count, like the simple thing of "taste".

 

In SWTOR, I just can't tinker around anymore. that was a majjor turn-off for me.

But I admit that the amount of people like me might be small - but people like me are not non-existent, I bet.

[IoNonSoEVero]

What part of MMORPG doesn't sound like an MMO to you? It's in the freaking name.

 

SWTOR wasn't known or anything - SWTOR's biggest claim to fame is it was the fastest AAA MMO to go F2P after release...not even APB went F2P faster. Over 2 million people bought the game...within months over half had quit. They didn't leave because there was a lack of story, most never even made it to the end of their 1st one, they left because the game was a complete and utter disaster at launch.

 

While some players did indeed return for KOTFE and KOTET, more didn't return.

 

In 2016 SWTOR was one of EA's top two earners. What was out then? Right. The KOTFE/KOTET that supposedly nobody liked.

 

And yes, MMO is in the name, but so is RPG. Meaning, they are both important. Pretty much every award, review and complimentary article about SWTOR after launch has been about its story content. Not its Ops.

 

Again - if there are already games that will satisfy people's urges to run in a pack and raid, such as FF and WoW, why does this game need to be another clone of it, especially when it's already established itself as something different and special? And how will that help it in any way? I don't think it will.

[Ratajack]

What part of MMORPG doesn't sound like an MMO to you? It's in the freaking name.

 

SWTOR wasn't known or anything - SWTOR's biggest claim to fame is it was the fastest AAA MMO to go F2P after release...not even APB went F2P faster. Over 2 million people bought the game...within months over half had quit. They didn't leave because there was a lack of story, most never even made it to the end of their 1st one, they left because the game was a complete and utter disaster at launch.

 

While some players did indeed return for KOTFE and KOTET, more didn't return.

 

What does MMO mean? Massive Multiplayer Online. That just means the game is capable of supporting large numbers of multiple people online. Nowhere does it stipulate that a player MUST group to be an MMO player, nor does it stipulate that there MUST be thousands of people online simultaneously or that those players online MUST be able to find groups within 5 minutes.

 

 

I think some people are adding their own "spins" to define the term MMO to fit what they want, and not what MMO actually means or is.

 

Now, I'm not saying that it must be a "solo" online game, only that there is more to an MMO than some seem to want to admit.

Edited August 3, 2017 by Ratajack

[IoNonSoEVero]

What does MMO mean? Massive Multiplayer Online. That just means the game is capable of supporting large numbers of multiple people online. Nowhere does it stipulate that a player MUST group to be an MMO player, nor does it stipulate that there MUST be thousands of people online simultaneously or that those players online MUST be able to find groups within 5 minutes.

 

 

I think some people are adding their own "spins" to define the term MMO to fit what they want, and not what MMO actually means or is.

 

Now, I'm not saying that it must be a "solo" online game, only that there is more to an MMO than some seem to want to admit.

 

I think this is a very, very important point. People frequently do involve that "MMO" acronym to try to justify their personal play style, which is usually copious grouping/Ops/PvP, as the One True Path. It simply means there are many players co-existing in the same environment. There are many, many ways they can interact, or not.

[Eshvara]

What does MMO mean? Massive Multiplayer Online. That just means the game is capable of supporting large numbers of multiple people online. Nowhere does it stipulate that a player MUST group to be an MMO player, nor does it stipulate that there MUST be thousands of people online simultaneously or that those players online MUST be able to find groups within 5 minutes.

 

 

I think some people are adding their own "spins" to define the term MMO to fit what they want, and not what MMO actually means or is.

 

Now, I'm not saying that it must be a "solo" online game, only that there is more to an MMO than some seem to want to admit.

I actually agree with you for once, Hell just froze over!

[FourPawnBenoni]

I've asked forever for guild ship training dummies. Not sure why this can't be done. Literally been asking for 3 years.

[JakRoanin]

As someone who plays this game because I love THE OLD REPUBLIC era that Bioware originally created with Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic, I get totally dismayed when I here people say... "We don't want story, we don't care about characters, we just want to kill, kill, kill." I shake my head wondering... 'Ummm, you do realize that they never advertised this game as that?'

 

Now, I will never raid, or do ops, or any of the other crazy hardcore group content. That does not mean people shouldn't have them.

 

I think they're working hard to address what we all want. It will take time, but I'm sure it will go faster if we all try to keep positive.