Discussion Thread: Galactic Starfighter

[StrixHiraeth]

So.... BW wants feedback, though they haven't given players any feedback about GSF for 2+ years. Bitter? You bet I am.

[kimiko_tomiyama]

I would say the learning curve was steep for anyone new. I tried it twice and the first time I was crushed repeatedly till several people bailed in mid fight. Then I seem to recall me and the last guy standing just circled at the edge of the screen till the other team won. At least though I could actually hit some stuff.

 

The second go I never even saw. the enemy. I would get something like missile lock then boom. The last couple of kills they'd staked out the rez point and would blast me as I came in. All the whole 2 people were screaming at me to quit dying. Um yeah. Like I intentionally got made into roadkill. I finally just stayed dead as I recall.. Probably being a poor sport and doubtless I will get flamed for idling in pvp. We were getting steamrolled and my team seemed to thing I was Leeroy Jenkins.

 

I doubt that was exactly the kind of feedback you were looking for, but I doubt I'm alone. Tried it got crushed, gave up. Maybe if I felt I had a chance I might try it again.

[TTuck]

One suggestion I have is to make the ship requisition legacy wide or at least apply to all ships. Currently I have a strike fighter I play and it is maxxed out. So it earns requisition. To use it on my other ships, same character, costs cartel coins. Looking at gearing for characters if you get a duplicate piece you can pop it into legacy gear and move it to another char free of charge, but for ships it costs you cartel coins. Makes no sense. Also if you could put in some sort of PvE. The current training thing you have is not very good for learning and so the only way to learn is jump in with a ship that is way undergeared and get repeatedly killed while trying to learn the controls. Not a good first experience for most.

[Nothing_Shines]

"GUNSHIPS ARE OP" says the bomber player. "Scouts need a buff" says the bomber player.

 

You may not realize this, but GSF balance is very much a rock/paper/scissors kind of thing.

 

Scouts counter gunships, gunships counter bombers, bombers counter scouts. So yes, as a bomber player, of course you're dying to gunships and of course the scouts are struggling to kill you.

 

It's hilarious that you're arguing that anyone should try to kill a bomber with strike fighters, btw, since EVEN THE DEVS have acknowledged that Strikes are the worst class in the game and by a very large margin. EMP is similarly bad.

 

"Dogfighting" is 100% the wrong way to play this game. You should never be chasing a target for very long unless it's a gunship. Scouts shouldn't be tangling with other scouts in open space, because that's not their job. (Unless of course they're setting up a shot for an allied gunship to finish off the player foolish enough to circle in open space.) Each ship has a clearly defined role (other than strikes).

 

 

Edit: As a further example that scouts are fine, here's me swapping to a scout after my gunship dies too easily and then performing well even in a build that's not even close to optimal:

 

 

Pay attention to how I play this game. I don't chase any single target for an extended period of time. That's not my job. Instead, I swap targets to people who aren't trying to avoid me.

 

This guy knows what's up.

 

Give strike fighters a purpose. Make more maps. Introduce another match type (I like capital ship defense or play keep away with nuke before it's delivered inside a station and detonated). Also, remove CC cost to convert req points. The grind to gear new ships is beyond ridiculous, especially with the tiny GSF population.

Edited July 8, 2017 by Nothing_Shines

[HuaRya]

Also, remove CC cost to convert req points. The grind to gear new ships is beyond ridiculous, especially with the tiny GSF population.

 

Doesn't sound like you've played it since they greatly reduced the cost to upgrade ships while adding a couple of ship types most people didn't have in their squad.

[Heavenstead]

Is the learning curve too steep to get into?

 

Only after the first few matches.

 

Is ship balance preventing you from playing?

 

More on this below.

 

Are you not playing because you feel GSF needs something new to bring you back in?

 

I stop playing when the usual emp side cheatathon crew shows up for their usual blatant exploitathon.

 

Matchmaking issues?

 

That's an understatement.

 

The fact that GSF is character based and not Legacy?

 

I have mixed thoughts about this. On the one hand, I get a bit tired of not being able to share resources with other characters in my legacy, and on the other hand I can see why focusing on one character may work better.

 

Regarding imbalances: I've been playing GSF for more than a year now. I still see people playing who have been reported 10+ times for blatant and documented use of known exploits, like the gunship exploit, and who basically thumb their noses at Bioware any time someone calls them out. The short of it is, people know how to cheat and aren't seeing any consequences for doing so.

 

That aside, the ship imbalances are getting worse. A newbie pilot in a gunship can take out someone flying a maxxed fighter or bomber. An experienced pilot in a scout can also do whatever they want. Support ships like bombers are known targets on my server, and people who fly bombers always finish in the last 10% because of gunships and scouts. I can't count the number of times my maxxed bomber has been one-shotted by a scout. It's hard to get to a station to deploy repair drones when you get killed at the spawn point by a scout who is farming kills and medals.

 

Premades in GSF are also taking their toll. There are a few premades on my server that cause me to simply leave GSF when I see them, simply because I've learned the hard way that my side will be lucky to see five kills out of fifty or lose in under five minutes in a station three cap. It could be argued that I need to just get my own premades to fight back, but I would argue in response that the premades eliminate anyone but the hardcore player from wanting to play GSF, due to matchmaking. A lot of people lose interest when their only experience is dying repeatedly to help someone add to their medal count.

 

In sum, the keys to exploiting GSF atm are fly a gunship or scout, use the known cheats (because Bioware won't do anything, according to those using the cheats), and go with premades. Sounds a lot like warzones atm. I enjoy GSF when there's a chance (like coming from behind in a station battle), but I've gotten to the point where I simply park at the zone in when I see the usual characters flying their usual one shot one kill ships that can't be damaged.

[alyris]

hey folks,

 

for the discussion thread this week, we are gonna mix it up a little bit. There is some specific feedback that the team is looking for about galactic starfighter, over three different topics. I am going to actually make three separate threads for each section of feedback. Please head into the specific threads to leave your feedback!

 

• ship balance
  
• itemization
  
• friction points

 

thanks everyone!

 

-eric

 

 

pve!!

[ImmortalLowlife]

All of the players who are complaining about joystick support should go check out Verain's thread on the subject:

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=926753

 

You might be able to get some discussion going there. I know I'm curious to see why (and if) you think it would be a good thing even after reading.

 

I read it, and didn't bother to comment because it's more of the same blah blah blah reasoning I saw when people first started asking for it. I don't know what the logistics are....I honestly don't care. The devs asked for opinions, and that's what we're offering. It's the ONLY thing keeping myself and others from playing GSF. You've never heard me complaining in ground PvP because I got hammered by someone with a 20 button gaming mouse. Because I hold my own with my extra basic 3 button mouse and plain old keyboard. Ohh yea.... I'm also a "clicker". I STILL use W,A,S,D, to move & 1- + keys for most of my abilities. I still wind up in the top 6 performers in my PvP matches. It sounds to me like some keyboard loyalist are skurred (mmm hmm skurred ) about not being able to handle somebody playing with a joystick or controller.

[Nothing_Shines]

Doesn't sound like you've played it since they greatly reduced the cost to upgrade ships while adding a couple of ship types most people didn't have in their squad.

 

So it doesn't cost CC, anymore? I honestly haven't looked since I've already ground out a couple of each class and don't need to use the conversion.

Edited July 9, 2017 by Nothing_Shines

[Transcendent]

Hi Eric,

 

I know I would play GSF and so would some of my friends if there was a JoyStick option

 

NO! No I say, that's never ever been asked for since the dawn of time!

 

Yeah you're right, they just need to listen to the feedback given to them. I'm guessing that they can't adjust the game engine so that you can remap key controls to a controller / joystick purely for GSF mode. I'd settle for controller support, it would make GSF far more accessible to play. Keyboard / mouse is great (PC master race and all that), but it does not cut it for GSF.

[Celise]

Hey folks,

 

For the discussion thread this week, we are gonna mix it up a little bit. There is some specific feedback that the team is looking for about Galactic Starfighter, over three different topics. I am going to actually make three separate threads for each section of feedback. Please head into the specific threads to leave your feedback!

 

• Ship Balance
  
• Itemization
  
• Friction Points

 

Thanks everyone!

 

-eric

 

Eric, i haven't been able to play GSF because of it's arcadish nature, i mean the ability to turn is far too quick, with backgrounds you're likely to get a bit dizzy after a few minutes. i only ever managed less than half a dozen GSF's in my entire time on SWTOR and i can't manage any more in it's current state.

 

would it be possible to nerf the handling of the vehicles so they turn much slower, so everyone can get their chance in a much slower setting and people like myself who can't play GSF because of the above will be able to play it as the background graphics arent going around so fast?

[mmmbuddah]

I tried it and for me learning curve is too steep for me to feel like I'd ever get good at it, not to mention I don't feel any emotional connection to it as it seems to just be an Avenue for player-vs-player and there is no real story involved.

 

I realize that this may not be directed towards my play style and I would certainly defer to those who more enjoy this sort of thing, but if you are looking to bring more players in, currently I find more enjoyment in regular player-versus-player then Galactic Starfighter - I think mostly because I am a fan of objective based PVP if I do that sort of thing, and not so much a fan of "attack/defend" some random points out in space.

 

I think for me what would be neither and make me more inclined to participate is an increase in the scale of the combat.

 

Like one side having to defend a capital ship that is also attacking in the other side trying to bring the capital ship down. Or one side having to provide safe escort for a row of ships and the other side trying to take those ships out.

 

More variety would definitely get me more interested, especially with objective-based missions that can be won without having to be the best shot on the field.

 

There is a story kind of. You need to accept the kuat story line on fleet though.

[mmmbuddah]

Unless Bioware are thinking about a PvE version of GSF they are ignoring the biggest stumbling block to why so few players access it.

 

All The Best

 

People are not avoiding it because lack of pve, lol. People are avoiding it because of a big learning curve, no support in over THREE YEARS, lack of content, horrible balancing, and having to deal with people that buy the p2w ships.

[DakhathKilrathi]

People are not avoiding it because lack of pve, lol. People are avoiding it because of a big learning curve, no support in over THREE YEARS, lack of content, horrible balancing, and having to deal with people that buy the p2w ships.

 

People that buy the what now? The ships are identical in performance to their non-cartel market counterparts. It's a different skin; that's all.

 

It's a PVP game so it doesn't need much content, but I guess more would be nice. It hasn't seen much support, but it's not the only thing in the game that hasn't.

 

Balance needs some tweaking, but overall it's in a good place. It's very rock/paper/scissors but that's not a bad thing. The learning curve is admittedly very steep. You're not wrong about that.

Edited July 9, 2017 by DakhathKilrathi

[Nothing_Shines]

There's nothing more demoralizing than being a noob pilot on the receiving end of a 0-50 death match or a 0-1000 capture match, except maybe being the only veteran on a team of noobs with the same end-score because your name is recognized, so you always get singled out first with every wave. I just grind for the CXP at this point, since I've maxed out the ships I want, so win or lose I don't really care.

 

However, a new guy with his first ship who ports in to that kind of buzzsaw isn't going to stick around for long. When the matches reach that point, pops drop off to nothing for hours, or until enough vets queue for a same faction match. Additionally, most pilots have one faction hangar tricked out to the max, with the other either ignored or half$&$ed, so servers end up being dominated by one side 95% of the matches.

 

Make the unlocks faction wide, so any Imp/Pub toon can fly the same tricked out ships as their comrades, and people can make progress on the hangar of ships regardless of what toon they're playing, and reduces the grind to just two tracks: Imp/Pub. GSF has the same critical flaw CXP does: it requires focus on ONE character to the exclusion of all others while playing it, unless you want progress to take forever as you constantly start from scratch every time you swap to an alt.

Edited July 9, 2017 by Nothing_Shines

[------Starkiller]

Thank you so much for bringing up the topic about GSF!

 

As a large PvP player, I enjoy the concept of GSF, however I do have some personal issues as well as feedback that many people in my guild have given to me about GSF that made myself and others lose interest over time.

 

1. Group options: On smaller servers, such as Jung Ma, we have major PvP players but it doesn't always pop unless you have a large group qued together. I like the 4 vs 4 group warzones that we are able to do, however, I wish GSF also had this option.

 

The suggestion behind this is to make a 4 vs 4 group GSF that will include smaller maps, new objectives, and a more dogfight-like concept behind it rather then people easily be defeated from bombers and gunships.

-Another possible idea behind this is to allow Republic and Empire players to que together just like we are able to do so in Warzones.

 

2. Rewards: GSF does offer great conquest points, xp points, and some credits. However, it does not drag in players to keep "flying into battle". A solution to this is to offer more items that you can buy from the Fleet Commendations that you earn after each match. In the server Jung Ma, players have been doing more Operations and Flashpoints, and have been losing interest in PvP because it doesn't give us any of the rewards such as Decorations, Gear, and Toys.

 

3. Fairness: I won't go into too much detail here because someone else has already posted about this. But for new players just starting to join in GSF, they are basically "space bait" because they are so easy to kill due to how advanced the "flying ace's" are. My recommendation for this is to possibly do what the MMO, Tera, does in its PvP. They boost those who are not max power so that their health is equal to everyone else, but their attack is not the same to those who are higher level - I also recommend this is an add-on for warzones so that all level's can que together.

 

Thank you for your time and for reading everyone's ideas.

Edited July 9, 2017 by ------Starkiller

[Nmyownworld]

I want to try GSF, however I have yet to understand it or even get past the tutorial. Can a tutorial get frustrated and snippy with a player? I think it did with me. I don't have prior experience with flight simulators. When I try the tutorial, I get a mass of information and the impression I'm supposed to have a preexisting knowledge base. Which I don't.

 

I've found GSF information posted by other players, both videos and text. My thanks to those players for their efforts.

 

I don't have an issue with learning through losses, although with GSF being a team effort it could frustrate other GSF team members. When I started playing SWTOR PVE, I learned from defeats (back when it was possible to be defeated outside of group content). I learned PVE skills in a sequential fashion, each new planet requiring the usage of more abilities, building up my skill set as I played. With GSF, I feel like I'm thrown in the deep end without even knowing there's such a thing as swimming. Fumbling through a mass of information without a compass or a reference point.

Edited July 10, 2017 by Nmyownworld

[caynanfrosst]

Don't know if mentioned or not, but wish we could use flight sticks. Last I tried it wasn't possible. Probably be a bit more enjoyable.

[Robocles]

Hey folks,

 

For the discussion thread this week, we are gonna mix it up a little bit. There is some specific feedback that the team is looking for about Galactic Starfighter, over three different topics. I am going to actually make three separate threads for each section of feedback. Please head into the specific threads to leave your feedback!

 

• Ship Balance
  
• Itemization
  
• Friction Points

 

Thanks everyone!

 

-eric

 

Few ppl play it because it is poorly designed and rife for abuse.

 

Though, it is easy to just sit there and farm conquest points.

 

On second thought... keep it.

 

Edit: Feedback? What a friggin joke. You people don't listen to our feedback.

Edited July 12, 2017 by Robocles

[Sumlina]

There is a learning curve for GSF that can be off putting. And the way it currently sits is much like PVP was in vanilla where level 10 would come up against a lvl 50 fully geared and get stomped. The fact that it remains this way since GSF launched I think really turned away a lot of players who just couldn't stomach having to grind and get rolled over and over until they earned enough rep to start modding out their ships. Esp since the only way to earn more comms for gear was to keep getting stomped.

I'm not sure what the fix is for this stage as it lingered much longer than vanilla PVP did before a fix came through. I'm not sure the player base size for it on a server to server basis even works to do brackets. But perhaps a ranked GSF with all the upgrades vs an unranked version with normalized stats regardless of upgrades cold help make the curve more manageable. Skill will still trump inexperience, but not being one shot every 30 seconds will prob help keep people around.

Maybe even a solo mode training mission for each map could help.

This exactly. I stopped playing because of that. I'd get enough to buy a ship, ask which one and buy it. Then get yelled at from people for having something dumb or not playing it right and then grind for another ship. Not to mention I didn't know the controls until I explored the custom keybinds. Finding out I could stop the ship helped a little but getting one shot constantly and then yelled at for not having good ships by my teams I was paired with and constantly called a sand bag I just didn't consider it worth it when there are other areas of the game easier to get into.

[Thruine]

I've had this pop for me exactly twice since I started playing. I suppose I could just que for it only but from what I've seen, its gonna take some time to learn how to play it. I would suggest creating some type of solo version we can practice in and perhaps some "companion" ships to fill up the que if we don't get a full group in a certain time. I'm just wanting to see if I would even like to play it. Currently, I guess I'll go with the rest of the players and say no. I like everything about it concerning picking ships and customizing them. It seems some nice work but apparently the game play and rewards got a big down vote. And I did spend my first visit spinning wildly in space due to the touchy controls then trying to figure out my movement and how to fire. I seriously barely got to where everyone was before it was over. I'm not the smartest but this made me feel more stupid than normally. Edited July 12, 2017 by Thruine

[Nmyownworld]

There is a learning curve for GSF that can be off putting.

 

Maybe even a solo mode training mission for each map could help.

Agreed. Either solo mode training missions for each map, and/or some way to have GF put me with other GSF newbies. Much, much lower mission rewards for those is fine. They'd be for learning GSF, not farming rewards. I'm not going to wilt when getting a blistering series of asterisks (I often have the profanity filter on) from other GSF players because I'm terribad at GSF. However, it isn't fun, and doesn't encourage me to keep at it until I'm better. I'd happily deal with crashing my ship and having no clue about objectives while on a learning curve, if I played with others in the same situation.

[lashalla]

I enjoy GSF, when it pops. On The Ebon Hawk I find the wait for a pop varies dramatically; I can go 90 minutes and never get a pop, and other days it's almost immediate. Factoring whether conquest that week has better points for GSF activities might be the difference, but sometimes it isn't.

 

A new map would be nice....just a thought.

[Ludvosh]

When GSF I played as with many others. But as things got OP on certain aspects I just lost interest. I've said a long time back that they need to make a PvE side or group missions. I remember the good ole days of Tie vs X-Wing. Having something like convoy escort, bombing runs, and even attacking capitol ships was fun.

But just having so few maps, snipers just sitting and nailing you from distance gets real old. A limit on snipers, and a bit more focus on the dog fighting end of PvP might bring a few players back.

[Thruine]

Got to play three times today due to it being on GC I guess. Those are amazing environments. I saw three different maps. I have the movement down a bit but still no idea what I'm doing. The objectives aren't that clear and apparently everyone was always on the opposite of something. I did have a good time chasing someone into a hanger (I think). I got a few shots in but apparently our ships will just stop movement so instead of a kill I just ended up hitting the wall trying to come around again while they stood by the entry having a laugh. It is all rather fast. Trying to get in range of an enemy meant I passed them each time. Little triangles all around my screen but what they mean is lost to me since no matter how you turn, they just circle it. Its there. Its almost there but this is one time I wish a game would start us out with some hand holding. That little three panel intro help I got months ago is long forgotten and nothing prepared me for this. I want to keep at it though but its probably never going to have the following of PvP which you can jump into without a clue and pickup pretty fast.