Ability Delay -- Character Responsiveness (This will make or break SW:TOR)

[Kazzle]

I believe for an MMO to achieve success game developpers have to look at psychology. I would agree that while the whole success behind WoW is a great "Feel" for your character, the smoothness of your attacks and channeled abilities, healing etc, its not the only thing that contributes to its success.

 

In order for you to "enjoy" something long enough to play several hours without realizing or to actually sit through a progression raid, every action, every objective has to trigger some fundemental part in your brain saying "ok if I do this, I'm going to get this". For DPS classes, its big numbers (scrolling combat text, dps meters, etc..) for healers its keeping tanks//raid alive, you get the picture. I would guarentee you that if you put 5, 10, or 20 people in a raid instance, told them they have to progress until they down the boss and not have any number display, loot available or achievement, they would quit within 1 or 2 weeks (probably within the first several attemps). Sure you would get the odd extremists that would do it just to say they did it. But no one would care, so they probably wouldn't do it repeatedly.

 

Like it or not, blizzard has found a superb way to introduce this into their MMO//games in general, I mean, look at their games, how many GoTY awards do they have, I almost feel bad for other game companies because every strategy game that comes out is goign to have to compete with: "Oh well SC2 does this, or Starcraft Broodwar was even better". When a new MMO comes out, how many "This game sux compared to WOW" threads are there, or how many "In WoW we had this, bring it here too". They have products appealing to a wide range of market computers, they're learning curves are not incredibly steep for the casual player, they have many tools designed to help the player, its literally a gold mine.

 

Their developpers know how to keep players hooked, they introduce you quickly to "Instant Gratification" with subtle programming that makes it feel "easy" and enjoyable. Your brain likes being rewarded for anything and everything. Go and pick up an instrument, try and practice//learn it with your favorite PC game on the computer next to you and see how long you last. Even people who don't particularly like WOW, play it because there's not really much out that they feel is worth the time and effort they put into their character. How many people do you think will buy Diablo3; another GoTY, and if you think I'm wrong, go back to this thread in 2012 and quote me who the award. Blizzard yet again does something groundbreaking by introducing Real Money Auction houses and while this may not have a direct effect on the game itself, for professional//fulltime gamers around the world this will be a historic moment. A video game company finally taking the next step into saying "ok, you want to be a professional gamer, here.. we'll give you the tools to make money and you don't have to be sponsored///top 2%". This is going to be a benchmark for game companies in the future and a new wave of internet business. I wouldn't be suprised if the CEO's of Blizzard most likely have posters in their office quoting "Haters gonna hate"... with a huge stack of $$$ under them just to look at and laugh. You may hate their products, but you cannot deny their marketing//programming//ingenuiety. Yes they may have copied styles from other games, ideas from other mechanics, but they did it BETTER, they did it solid, and they ended up in the end with a longer list of subscribers than the games who did it orriginally.

 

While Bioware may not need to address their combat response time, they need to make sure mechanics are in place to keep players wanting to quest, wanting to pvp, wanting to progress their character past the level cap and to give them (bioware) time to fix the other issues at hand. Suprisingly they have missed some fundemental programming issues already, considering we are 2011 and they have spent a MASSIVE amount of money on the game you would think these issues that have been reported throughout beta be fixed, they none the less can still recouperate and possibly address the combat and other issues in future patches.

 

Blizzard themselves are quoted saying they hope Bioware does well..You would think after all the time, $$, and effort put into something, you want it to succeed no mater what perspective you look at it from. You have to have a clear goal in mind with where you want to take your product (I'm sure BW has this) but you also have to listen to your player base, try to balance it out and not make a mess of things.

 

Its a tough industry out there, the player base being 8 days into release of a game is already thinking months ahead of you. What comes fast is not fast enough anymore, what's free is too much of a lineup and what costs $$ is too expensive.

 

Bioware, you mentioned in your letter to the player base that you wish the force be with us...

 

Well, I would just like to wish that "May the force be with you".

[Lionerd]

See, this is the problem.

 

 

IT IS LATENCY. You have made a grave error in judgement simply writing it off as a localized UI issue. NOT EVERYONE EXPERIENCES IT BECAUSE IT IS LATENCY.

 

 

Its not latency issue ..... its so clear that even a child can understand that....

 

Or maybe no ?!

[TipsyDrow]

It isn't an issue of popularity, it's about how viable the combat system is in competitive play.

 

At the moment..not very.

 

It's not even viable in casual group play. With you and your companion doing your story quest sure, it's doable and even enjoyable. I will just give one example of how prioritizing animations over character control is a bad thing.

We have a group in a flashpoint where the mobs including the bosses do what's called random agro. The tank (me) has some trash mobs and the boss tanked for the moment. The dps are doin what they do best, slaughter things, the healer is healing and all is well in a galaxy far far away. And then....The boss decides it wants to rip the healers face off, why? Who knows, maybe he doesn't like your pretty yellow dress, uhmm robe I meant robe. Remember these mobs do what's called random agro... The tank (me) is still tanking the trash mobs and as luck would have it is in the middle of a parry animation as the boss descends with a wicked gleam in his eye on our beloved robe wearing healer. Now because I'm in the middle of a game induced parry animation,when I taunt the boss calling him names using the most colorful of four letter words, it doesn'tt work. Well why the heck not you ask? Because animations overide character input , that's why. So, my gcd gets used but the taunt doesn't work. Since the gcd is used I now can't even jump to boss to try and save my robe wearing friend. The healer takes a pummeling tries to run off, kite, get away...anything to shake this boss and it aint happeneing. Healer dies.....I am dependant upon my healer to a certain degree as is the healer dependant upon me as is the entire group and vice versa. I failed my healer and my group because the game dictated I can do nothing while in a parry animation, BUT at the same time used the ability and the gcd even though it didn't fire. You see, there are times when you must have absolute control over your toon. Things can go south and that's when you need a responsive combat system. This is only one of the many many many reasons animations over gameplay is a bad idea. Others can cite other examples or ways in which the animations are causing issues. No, this isn't happening to everyone, no this doesn't happen all the time. It is only certain skills at certain times but is detrimental to gameplay and has already caused a group wipe once or twice. Now I love this game. I'm not going to quit. But I along with many others beg bioware to fix this in some manner.

[Moriam]

Update: Stephen Reid, the Senior Community Manager has responded to a post on the reddit thread about ability delay.

 

The question: "Ability Delay. This has been brought up all over the forums at swtor.com including http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=95738 . Have you guys discussed this internally, and if so, is there an ETA for a fix on this issue?"

 

His Response: "Hey! It has been discussed internally, and we'll talk about it publicly soon. It's not a simple issue so we don't want to issue a quick, off-the-cuff response."

 

So we can all relax guys! They hurd us! Herp.

 

Now what they will respond with is interesting.

Edited December 28, 2011 by Moriam

[MaceTowani]

I think you missed my point. The fluid control of combat, that wow has, is how it should be done imo. When I press a key in wow, that action happens NOW.

 

Like I said in an earlier post of mine. Many here supporting this thread believe the problem to be a bug. Some of this I think might be true, as far as some abilities not working all together.

 

My support on this thread however, is different. I believe the slugish combat "feel" i have ingame was a dev decision to make combat animation look smooth and take higher priority over game control. I may be wrong here, I hope I am, in which case my feel of slugish combat will be fixed. But playing various mmos over the last 10 years, I don't have high hopes.

 

I feel the combat is extremely smooth and I really have no complaints anymore now that I switched up my play style.

 

If my play style works, and I experience no problems, why continue doing what you do and expect a different result?

[Yukondoit]

Stephen Reid just stated over at Reddit that the team is aware of this issue and it's being discussed internally. However, due to the complexity of the issue, they're not ready to make any off-the-cuff statements about it other than they know and they're working on it.

[Monkertrol]

should shut us up for a few days, no?

[Spetsnazos]

Havent played in days. I have a feeling this issue wont be resolved. After pvp'ing for an hour this issue drove me to quit. Sorry but unresponsive gameplay didnt even exist in EQ1, I have no idea why it is in a 2012 game.

[noermi]

E: Damnit, Moriam beat me to it.

 

Sorted by "hot" comments so it doesn't get lost since it's getting the most upvotes:

Edited December 28, 2011 by noermi

[oflow]

Here are the REAL two sides.

 

1)OMG IT DOESN'T INSTA-CAST LIKE WOW, WHAT DO WE DO?! THE GAME IS OVER IT'S DEAD UNLESS YOU FIXZ NAO. DO IT RIGHT NOW!

 

2)We have not experienced this problem because we found that if you do "this, this and then that" we have also found that it must be the mechanics of the game in which BioWare mapped out and one we have adapted to.

 

no its more like:

 

1) I've done extensive testing and some of us even made videos showing how some abilities off the gcd dont cast when activated but still reset the gcd and use the resources, this is a major issue that makes the gameplay feel sluggish/nonrespsonsive and definitely hurts the ability to do any real competitive pvping.

 

versus

 

2) My game works just fine this game is awesome. I dont know what you are all complaining about. I've tried to duplicate the issue and I cant make it do it, so you need to buy a better computer/wait for animations to finish/play a non-melee class/adjust your preferences. Relax, give it time, have fun the game just came out.

Edited December 28, 2011 by oflow

[Morsexy]

StephenReid responded to this, first posts

 

[MaceTowani]

So now we play the waiting game......

 

Well, you guys can, I'm gonna go play TOR.

 

 

That smile is not characteristic of me and should not be seen as such.

 

[Calsium]

update: Stephen reid, the senior community manager has responded to a post on the reddit thread about ability delay.

 

The question: "ability delay. This has been brought up all over the forums at swtor.com including http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=95738 . Have you guys discussed this internally, and if so, is there an eta for a fix on this issue?"

 

his response: "hey! It has been discussed internally, and we'll talk about it publicly soon. It's not a simple issue so we don't want to issue a quick, off-the-cuff response."

 

so we can all relax guys! They hurd us! Herp.

 

Now what they will respond with is interesting.

 

yes! Thank you!

[Yukondoit]

Havent played in days. I have a feeling this issue wont be resolved. After pvp'ing for an hour this issue drove me to quit. Sorry but unresponsive gameplay didnt even exist in EQ1, I have no idea why it is in a 2012 game.

 

Stephen Reid just responded. The team is aware of this issue and is discussing it internally. It will be addressed. So, your feeling seems to be needless worry.

[mbernert]

I feel the combat is extremely smooth and I really have no complaints anymore now that I switched up my play style.

 

If my play style works, and I experience no problems, why continue doing what you do and expect a different result?

 

Maybe this will help you understand what I am trying say. If things feel good to you now, then great, you aren't here to voice a problem, you like how it is. With no scorn at all I am glad you like it and are having fun, I wish i could do the same.

 

My sister is close to the same age as me, we both have played wow for years. We live in different states and use different isps. She averages around 300-400 latency on the game, every day. I average about 50.

 

On occasions my latency has jumped to 150-300 for unknown reasons to me. When this happens, the game, at least in pvp, is completely unplayable for me. My character at times will delay actions, even just by a tiny bit, I would guess its probably like .5 seconds at the most and worst ever. That is not acceptable to me when I am trying to play my best. She plays with this high of latency all day, and has no issue whatsoever with it.

 

So maybe my problem is more prefferance, than a "bug", either way if not changed and/or fixed, I won't be playing passed the time it takes me to finish my class story.

[llLoGiXll]

Couldn't agree more with the op. Hopefully they fix this... My fingers hurt from spamming buttons

[andanetr]

Great news.

 

And to people who were insinuating it was people's pcs etc "BUT EEES OK ON MINE", please never post again, kthx.

[Xzenorath]

Update: Stephen Reid, the Senior Community Manager has responded to a post on the reddit thread about ability delay.

 

The question: "Ability Delay. This has been brought up all over the forums at swtor.com including http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=95738 . Have you guys discussed this internally, and if so, is there an ETA for a fix on this issue?"

 

His Response: "Hey! It has been discussed internally, and we'll talk about it publicly soon. It's not a simple issue so we don't want to issue a quick, off-the-cuff response."

 

So we can all relax guys! They hurd us! Herp.

 

Now what they will respond with is interesting.

 

Wow, jeez, does that sound exactly like something I posted 20 minutes ago.

 

Let us all be surprised now. rofl

[guuitarjg]

People shouldn't be arguing in this thread. There's nothing to argue about Wow is better or SWTOR is better...

 

It's quite simply, that the OP is factually correct. WoW's success is due to it's responsiveness. No other MMO has come close, escept Star Wars.

 

They need to improve on this. SWTOR will most definately not fail, but it could become GREAT if they iron this issue out.

 

I sign this post and hope to god the devs read it.

[Khoranth]

Khoranth,

 

You do need to be alittle more truthful. If you did play warhammer at release, then you would know that the UI delay there actually was gamebreaking. The sync between cast bar and spell launch was literally seconds off. Not milliseconds.

 

There is no comparison. And it hurts your argument to say such things.

 

 

in warzones it is seconds off. PVE is fine, but probably because soloing is so easy, you do not need to frantically press buttons.

[Unseenhands]

Xcore, once more I just want to thank you for starting this thread about 300 posts ago, ha ha. I never thought it was fully game-breaking, but I wanted that "feel" to be tight and responsive in a game I do already really like in SWTOR.

 

The response from Reid signifies that BW did pay attention to it, and will at least address it.

 

I hope it all comes out to what MANY people here want, myself included, which is the success of this game.

 

Kudos Xcore, and kudos BW. Here's to potential fixes!

[JonnyBigBoss]

It's obvious that there are folks in this thread who simply don't grasp what is going on here. Honestly, that's fine, you don't need to understand.

 

All I want is Bioware to comment on the issue. Either:

 

"We're happy with the current state of gameplay responsiveness."

 

Or

 

"We plan to improve gameplay responsiveness."

 

And that's all I'll need to know to make my decision to renew my subscription.

 

 

Bingo. You get it.

[mbernert]

People shouldn't be arguing in this thread. There's nothing to argue about Wow is better or SWTOR is better...

 

It's quite simply, that the OP is factually correct. WoW's success is due to it's responsiveness. No other MMO has come close, escept Star Wars.

 

They need to improve on this. SWTOR will most definately not fail, but it could become GREAT if they iron this issue out.

 

I sign this post and hope to god the devs read it.

 

^ exactly my own feelings

[andanetr]

Again, my game works fine. If its not your hardware....its your software.

 

Wow, troubleshooting is so hard sometimes....

 

Update: Stephen Reid, the Senior Community Manager has responded to a post on the reddit thread about ability delay.

 

The question: "Ability Delay. This has been brought up all over the forums at swtor.com including http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=95738 . Have you guys discussed this internally, and if so, is there an ETA for a fix on this issue?"

 

His Response: "Hey! It has been discussed internally, and we'll talk about it publicly soon. It's not a simple issue so we don't want to issue a quick, off-the-cuff response."

 

So we can all relax guys! They hurd us! Herp.

 

Now what they will respond with is interesting.

 

Time to pack up your crayons

[Spetsnazos]

Stephen Reid just responded. The team is aware of this issue and is discussing it internally. It will be addressed. So, your feeling seems to be needless worry.

 

Um ok so other than saying "we talked about it internally" I don't know what they're doing, what the REAL problem is and WHEN it is going to get fixed.

 

See when my internet speed is half of what it needs to be, I call up my ISP and ask them whats going on and when its going to be fixed. They tell me there is an outage in my area and they shoul have everything back to normal in 2-3 hours. That is CUSTOMER SERVICE. I don't even understand why I would pay $15/mo and have no clue as to what is going on.

 

Sorry but customer is ALWAYS right. Learn it now.