Agreed - and "not game-breaking for me" right now hasn't yet included high level pvp or raids, where this issue would be even more critical. I think it just feels SOOOOO close; so the hyperbole doesn't mean the game will be or is a failure - it's just, as you said, might not live up to the POTENTIAL there. This one fix makes it have a chance to be amazing.

I agree that it's not game-breaking for me; I'm still having plenty of fun. I just want this game to be EXCELLENT and succeed on a ridiculous level. I think having fast and responsive combat will really push it to that level.

Nice video - the biggest offender I've personally experienced is the IA and Snipe - I can't chain cast it for the life of me. Cast bar finishes, I should be able to start casting the next, but the animation prevents it.

This is right - and points to the biggest problem I have with a large part of those trying to suggest it doesn't happen at all. If you already like it, who cares? For ALL of us though, if they tighten it up, it's better. I hope that no one is like "Man, I hope combat gets...slower" or something. Game is good, great fun. I have noticed this issue and hope it gets better, but don't think it's gamebreaking for me (meaning I think I like the game enough to keep playing DESPITE it, not ignoring it) BUT, tighter, faster, more responsive helps everyone and turns the game from very good to excellent, and that's a good thing! Why would people not want that? Edit: I'm agreeing with Xcore here; fixed to reflect that.

The usual - loot ninjas, bad dps, too hard, too easy, class balance. But if they fixed this, I'd be having too much fun to notice

Been thinking about engine design and response for awhile (been a part of this thread since the original), especially in regards to Bioware's game designs. Because to compare them to WoW and Blizzard, while important in a competition discussion, is less relevant to deciding if Bioware themselves can see the problem and have a way to fix it. I may get flamed about this, but hear me out, please: Dragon Age 2 was far superior to Dragon Age:Origins in TERMS OF ABILITY DELAY AND CHARACTER RESPONSIVENESS. Same with Mass Effect 2 over 1. Now, you can debate whether or not they're as good as games as their precursor (fairly universally, DA2 is panned and ME2 is praised), but the combat system in DA2 is MUCH faster, more responsive, and flat out MORE FUN than DA:O. Now, many people missed the strategy of "pause & play" mechanics that DA:O offered, but I remember (coming from WoW) DA:O feeling like watching my warrior awkwardly run into place and get position before slowly attacking felt wrong somehow. Slow. DA2 fixed this. It was flat out fun to fight things. It felt like WoW, and still maintained the pause and play access, just on a much faster level. Mass Effect 2 changed the pause and play rpg shooter play of the first by making a nearly seamless shooter, with Bioware story. The scary thing is, though I thought BOTH of these were improvements over the first (and, implicitly, it seems Bioware thought that to a degree too, as they were the sequels) many other people hated seeing Bioware lose the somewhat slower approach that DA:O or ME1 offered. They didn't want to see the long line of NWN, Kotor (Not Jade Empire, which had fun combat too! and ME1 and DA:O reduced (in their minds) to the much faster (they said "button mashing") or third-person-shooter. I guess I'm trying to say that if SWTOR had DA2's fast responsive combat, most in this thread would be happy. Feels like WoW, but Bioware style without the inherit argument WoW brings into the discussion. Now, a lot of people might not mind, honestly if this game was TURN BASED like KOTOR. Or, similar to KOTOR, queue of 3 abilities and then watch. That's because they come from Bioware's history, not WoW, I'd imagine. So it seems as if Bioware is in a bit of a philosophical place with their game design - DA2 and ME2 seems like the direction they'd want to go, but the reviews of DA2 may have put them back from that design concept. How to appease their base and also rein in an MMO crowd (commonly used to WoW) is a tough call. All said, I think it appears that Bioware has the capability to do what we want (fast, responsive combat) though it remains to be seen if they deliver it.

Xcore, I'd recommend altering the OP now to include the response, just so people can understand the thread did its job. Your call, of course.

My thoughts also -- now I can get back to actually playing the game instead of refreshing this thread constantly for two days, lol.

Lol, I missed it too - and it happened right before I quoted your "." plea. That's hilarious. Nice find, fallenvirtues. And, now, hopefully for Xcore, some resolution

A good point - one thing the video didn't do was that first heal cast, then move as cast bar was finished but animation wasn't. (At least I don't remember it doing that.) Would the heal still land? Accurate cast bars (meaning being "done" with that ability and able to do something else.) is really the root of the original discussion. It's really interesting, ha ha, when it stays on topic and doesn't devolve into bickering.

Excellent video - in the spirit of the first ~150 pages of the original thread - true discussion, testing, and video evidence. Again, I'll point to a lack of a combat log as an additional complication to this issue - trying to make sure damage happens if animations do or don't happen is kind of important to the troubleshooting.

I've been a big supporter of your comments in this thread, Xcore, dating back to early in the original thread. But I feel like this is asking a little too much - let me explain why. I was watching this thread and the reddit discussion when Reid said this. I was overjoyed, the very first question I think was about this very thread, and he said, 'We're aware.' That's the dot. I thought we had "won." But it didn't take more than THREE POSTS for people to start demanding timelines, more information, explicit approaches, etc. There HAS to be patience. BW HAS acknowledged your discussion of this problem. Here's what would happen if a dev did post a "." INSTANTLY, everyone would be asking follow-up questions. "When?" "So you're saying there IS a problem?" "Is it tied to server response or is it the engine?" etc etc. I think you might be mollified by the "." but it would only cause more and more frustration due to not giving full details and timelines, which, while I would appreciate those things, I don't feel are necessary to "win." They said they're working on it. Time to move forward.

I think the "wrap up" is especially appropriate. For a very long while (over 100 pages) this discussion was almost completely civil, interesting, and full of evidence and development. It has piqued many people's interest, on more than a troll or argument or qq level. Xcore (and others) repeatedly stepped in to arguments that were threatening to disrupt the thread, and when it was all said and done, a lot of strong arguments were presented -- even by people who disagree that the problem is gamebreaking. Anyway, this is one of the few forum discussions I've ever been in rapt attention to (though the latter half of this second thread seems to be a bit irritatingly confrontational) and I think part of what Xcore is acknowledging is that it was a sort of weird phenomenon for awhile that, apparently, has come to BW's eyes and will at least warrant a look in this particular problem's direction. Xcore started it, and he deserves to have his final word to finish it. Kudos. (Again)

Xcore, once more I just want to thank you for starting this thread about 300 posts ago, ha ha. I never thought it was fully game-breaking, but I wanted that "feel" to be tight and responsive in a game I do already really like in SWTOR. The response from Reid signifies that BW did pay attention to it, and will at least address it. I hope it all comes out to what MANY people here want, myself included, which is the success of this game. Kudos Xcore, and kudos BW. Here's to potential fixes!

Fallenvirtues might be on to something - the idea that the initial lag is creating the "longer than cast bar" animation. Wonder if that's server/client issue, coding, or something else... Also, the Riposte example is interesting because the CD of Riposte starts after he uses it. But the animation doesn't show Riposte. PROBLEM IS: we don't have a combat log to say whether the riposte did work even if it's animation was covered by the skill already in use (which I think, both should still connect. Otherwise, put riposte on the GCD -- but don't, cause I like that ability