Dialog that makes you're eyes roll uncontrollably into your brain.

[Khryn]

The Imperial Guard, while not force users, are trained to resist some aspects of the Force.

 

Sure, the ultimately powerful ones (such as our characters in game, Satelle Shan, The Emperor..) would crush a normal soldier... But for the average Jedi/Sith, they aren't walking gods. The ability to block blaster bolts is precognitive "senses" but even the Jedi/Sith can't move fast enough to block them all. And that's probably where they are "trained to handle."

 

Even in the trailers you see Jace Malcolm best some Sith, plus he made Malgus pretty. Not a force user.

 

In "Attack of the Clones" you see Jango Fett handily defeat a Jedi.

[Eanelinea]

I've taken to using Sacrifice on my companions when they say their (in my mind) most obnoxious statement. Whenever Guss says "WHEEEEEEEE" (and he'll say it like five times in a row) or when Theron says, "Did I mention I'm a pacifist?" I use it. I'll say, out loud, "Really, Theron? REALLY?! YOU'RE A PACIFIST?!" *Sacrifice*

 

As a side note, I'll also use it on Quinn just because. After "The Incident" he deserves nothing less.

 

It's ThARAN Cedrax and ThERON Shan. Two different people with two different name spellings.

 

Tharan and Theron. Completely different. Sorry, but this always annoys me a bit.

 

I use sacrifice on DS Jaesa, she likes it.

[tmwfte]

Every time I hear that line... "Okay, then... You don't complain in the cutscene where you and my Sith bang each other;s brains out, but you also don't want to go against your teachings."

 

Not even gonna mention the number of Jedi she and I kill because she does better DPS than the other two DPS guys...

 

Aye, slaughtering Republic forces, affection gain for choices that negatively affect the Republic and the Jedi, and Ashara still thinks that she's following her teachings...

[NoahRedden]

Anything Corso Riggs says about women

[SithKoriandr]

To be fair if said force use is using only a single saber, you can kill them by simply fire 3 blaster bolts at them at the exact same time, since there is no way you can angle a single blade to catch all three.

 

 

Also saying "we are train to fight force users" does not mean "we can 1v1 force users" it means they are trained in whatever tactics give the best ability to fight a force user. Which if the NPCs in this game had brains and didn't stand and face tank they could use.

 

Also if you can just rip the blaster out of anyone's hand, why doesn't this happen more? Yes there are references to it in the EU, but it's very rare, and the majority of the time the force user has to fight the shooter the ye-old-fashioned way. Obviously one does not simply throw people around.

 

Sith seem to do it regularly enough. It's the Jedi who don't. Enough so, I wondered if it was a dark side thing to do. Throw robots around willy nilly? Sure! People? OMG NO!

 

OP is right, Jedi/Sith are much more impressive in the movies/books...basically anything that isn't a game...doesn't have to worry about game balance.

[TheBentOne]

To be fair if said force use is using only a single saber, you can kill them by simply fire 3 blaster bolts at them at the exact same time, since there is no way you can angle a single blade to catch all three.

 

 

Also saying "we are train to fight force users" does not mean "we can 1v1 force users" it means they are trained in whatever tactics give the best ability to fight a force user. Which if the NPCs in this game had brains and didn't stand and face tank they could use.

 

Also if you can just rip the blaster out of anyone's hand, why doesn't this happen more? Yes there are references to it in the EU, but it's very rare, and the majority of the time the force user has to fight the shooter the ye-old-fashioned way. Obviously one does not simply throw people around.

 

Exactly. "We are trained to fight force users could mean. "We have been trained to fight the instinct to brings our hand to our throat when you start choking us, and will be shooting at you instead." Or "We are especially good at landing on out feet after getting tossed around."

[AngFour]

It's ThARAN Cedrax and ThERON Shan. Two different people with two different name spellings.

 

Tharan and Theron. Completely different. Sorry, but this always annoys me a bit.

 

I use sacrifice on DS Jaesa, she likes it.

 

My bad. Just finished another run of the SoR quests so I had ThERON's spelling upfront in my mind. I'll remember next time

 

Of course now you've doomed ThARAN to more sacrifices with more lip. "What was that ThARAN with an R-A-N? You're a pacifist AND you share the same name (with a different spelling) with someone who is somewhat less of a snot nose than you?" *SACRIFICE!*

Edited June 22, 2015 by AngFour

[Luinthoron]

"We are trained to handle sith/jedi"

 

No, you are not. There is no possible training you can have as a non-force user to prevent a force user from force choking you, knocking your gun out of your hand, knock you across the room, etc. There is no possible way to train against a force user as a non-force user. There may be technologies that inhibit the force, but no such things are mentioned or shown in the game. That force user simply must be weak in the force or you have such a numbers advantage that they can't deflect all the incoming attacks.

Atton Rand would like to have a word with you.

[OddballEasyEight]

"We're trained to fight force users" doesn't mean they have special techniques that prevent force users from using their powers. (just like someone saying "I'm trained to handle snakes" doesn't mean that snakes are not poisenous to him)

 

It just means that they are trained to A: not instinctively fear force-users (which is a big part of it), B: Know which attacks are better against force users (fx. HK-47 goes through a few of those) and C: When and where to ideally engage a force user (instead of just standing out in the open trying to shoot them with a blaster).

 

And a force users arsenal is relatively easy to identify and categorize.

 

Most of it is the power to move things with your mind. Things like force push, force throw and even force choke comes under that category.

Then there's the lightning and it's different variations.

But the main danger of force users isn't that kind of stuff.

 

It's the fact that they can protect themselves from a whole lot of damage if they are ready for it.

And I don't just mean the parrying of blaster bolts with their lightsabers that we're all well aware of.

Due to their ability to move objects using the force, this also means that things like rockets and grenades might be useless to a force user that sees you using them.

Just look at the Hope trailer, where malgus deflects several grenades from a grenade launcher.

And even if the grenades do hit (or rockets or whatever), the force user can shield themselves from the damage by using the force to create a "shield" if you will, from the force, around them.

Now, this means that people who are "trained to deal with force users" would also know about these capabilities.

And they'd know how to use it against them.

 

For example, a force user would be hard pressed to fight off attacks from both blasters and grenades/rockets at the same time. And if you manage to get force choked, you'd know to use some form of explosive or other attack to break the force users concentration.

Ideally, they'd know to not engage the force user directly within line of sight. Ambush is the best way to go, but even then the precognition of many force users makes it difficult.

 

But like I said, it's not some magic cure-it-all that removes force powers.

It's simply the training to know how to deal with it.

 

(as for where they'd get that training, for republich and empire trooper, they'd get that training from jedi or sith because both realize that it's good to have their troops able to fight force users of the enemy armies. For agents, I think it's pretty much the same but they draw upon the training of the military and just use that training. Mandalorians, however, have had centuries of fighting against force users to learn to adapt. And that training is not lost)

 

EDIT: and a large part of fighting a force user is the fact that most force users are used to non-force users being at their mercy. They're not used to having the guy that you're force-choking firing a rocket at them. They're used to them grasping at their throat.

Now, that said, a great force user will still not be caught out by that, but most force users are not all that great.

Edited June 22, 2015 by OddballEasyEight

[Dayshadow]

I repeat.

 

The subject is not rather or not a force user can be defeated by a non-force user.

 

The subject is that there is no special training one can receive to specifically deal with force users. If the force user is weak in the force pointing and shooting will suffice (i.e. Jango vs. Coleman Trebor). If they are very powerful in the force you are simply screwed (troopers vs. Yoda). The only option then would be overwhelming force which does not constitute "special training". You're still just pointing and shooting like you would a non-force using target.

 

Atton Rand would like to have a word with you.

 

If only he wasn't force sensitive himself. Not that any mental type defense would have anything to do with actually killing a Jedi or keeping that Jedi from killing you in a head to head fight. But since these characters aren't sneak attacking, but attacking openly, their comments about being trained to handle force users must refer to direct assaults.

[Leklor]

I repeat.

 

The subject is not rather or not a force user can be defeated by a non-force user.

 

The subject is that there is no special training one can receive to specifically deal with force users. If the force user is weak in the force pointing and shooting will suffice (i.e. Jango vs. Coleman Trebor). If they are very powerful in the force you are simply screwed (troopers vs. Yoda). The only option then would be overwhelming force which does not constitute "special training". You're still just pointing and shooting like you would a non-force using target.

 

 

 

If only he wasn't force sensitive himself. Not that any mental type defense would have anything to do with actually killing a Jedi or keeping that Jedi from killing you in a head to head fight. But since these characters aren't sneak attacking, but attacking openly, their comments about being trained to handle force users must refer to direct assaults.

 

Except Coleman Trebor wasn't weak. He was a Council member, Jango was just THAT GOOD. And Yoda was Grand Master, as in, totally OP against an average opponent.

I need to be sure, are you complaining about the line existing at all or that it isn't believabke: The frequent line you complain is not a fact, it's what these guys believe. They are boasting. They probably killed a Padawan or an Acolyte while swarming him and thus see themselves as the ultimate Sith/Jedi killers.

And there ARE tactics that are ideal to engage a force-user: Superior numbers, flanking, playing on his instincts (Compassion for a Jedi, pride for a Sith). Same goes for strategies that stop them from using their favourite weapons. If you manage to grab a force-user and prevent him from moving his arm and thus his lightsaber, he is ****ed. Ask Malgus. Also, ambushes, using explosives, distractions to fool force-enhanced senses.

I'll just add that the player characters are terrible examples here because they are among the most powerful force users ever. So no amount of tactics, no matter how well thought out would work (Case in point, Quinn and his droids before Corellia).

[Dayshadow]

Also if you can just rip the blaster out of anyone's hand, why doesn't this happen more? Yes there are references to it in the EU, but it's very rare, and the majority of the time the force user has to fight the shooter the ye-old-fashioned way. Obviously one does not simply throw people around.

 

The EU and the movies because Darth Vader did this to Han Solo. Luke pulls a guys blaster out of it's holster before falling into the Rancor Pit.

 

Reasons it isn't shown more often could be because those force users aren't that powerful or the writers want to add action and excitement. Main character force users easily steamrolling everyone with a fling of their wrists would get boring and repetitive fast. It is the most obvious thing to do. Even in the game you're telling me breaking though a durasteel blast door with sheer force power is "simply done", but flinging a 150-200 lbs humanoid is some special feat? Or just pulling their little guns out of their hands? And if a Jedi can't even do something that simple why would you need special training to face them?

 

The first thing Jedi have to learn in lightsaber combat is how to put up force defenses to prevent themselves from being disarmed by other force users. Because it is the obvious thing to do. Recall the smuggler vs. that sith lady on Tattoine. She blocked his shots to show off and then took his weapon. The sith warrior also does this in some cutscenes on Nar Shaddaa and Alderaan off the top of my head.

Edited June 22, 2015 by Dayshadow

[Knorlac]

Reasons it isn't shown more often could be because those force users aren't that powerful or the writers want to add action and excitement.

 

That's clearly the reason why the Jedi/Sith in the movies and other media don't use their abillities to their fullest extent.

It would make for boring scenes if the force user just made his enemies blood vessels in the brain rupture, stopped their hearts from beating or severed their spinal cords through the force.

Edited June 22, 2015 by Knorlac

[Dayshadow]

Except Coleman Trebor wasn't weak. He was a Council member, Jango was just THAT GOOD. And Yoda was Grand Master, as in, totally OP against an average opponent.

I need to be sure, are you complaining about the line existing at all or that it isn't believabke: The frequent line you complain is not a fact, it's what these guys believe. They are boasting. They probably killed a Padawan or an Acolyte while swarming him and thus see themselves as the ultimate Sith/Jedi killers.

And there ARE tactics that are ideal to engage a force-user: Superior numbers, flanking, playing on his instincts (Compassion for a Jedi, pride for a Sith). Same goes for strategies that stop them from using their favourite weapons. If you manage to grab a force-user and prevent him from moving his arm and thus his lightsaber, he is ****ed. Ask Malgus. Also, ambushes, using explosives, distractions to fool force-enhanced senses.

I'll just add that the player characters are terrible examples here because they are among the most powerful force users ever. So no amount of tactics, no matter how well thought out would work (Case in point, Quinn and his droids before Corellia).

 

Being a council member does not make you all powerful. It means you are a good little jedi and are very knowledgeable in the force. It doesn't mean you are very powerful in the force. Grand Master is a rank signifying the leader of the Order, not a measuring stick for fighting prowess. The Jedi Knight and the Consular are stronger than Satele, yet she is the Grand Master.

 

All Jango did was point and shoot. Go look at the clip. He didn't display any skill that was "THAT GOOD". He just pointed and shot until a bolt got through. I would have done the same thing myself. Nothing special. Coleman was weak in the force. This cannot be denied as we have video evidence proving he was a weak.

 

Not sure what you mean by "ask Malgus". Malcolm's "tactic" was having a Jedi

 

None of the tactics you mention are force user specific. They apply to any engagement with any opponent. There is no such thing as special tactics against force users for a non-force user. At least not in terms of a direct assault which is implied given the circumstances in which the lines are uttered. There are techniques to not think, control emotion in many eastern traditions and therefore not broadcast yourself to Jedi, but given the context they aren't referring to ambushes.

 

It's not really a complaint. The thread is just lines that make you roll your eyes. This is one that makes my eyes roll. That's all really. Another one is "To arms! The Sith attacks". It just seems silly to me and makes me chuckle.

 

Please do not mention Quinn and his "unstoppable" factory default droids. Or the fact that depending on your choices the Voss guy tells you you have a traitor in your midst and you do absolutely nothing with this info. With Jaessa on your ship... Ergh!! BIOWARE!!!!! TAKE THAT **** OUT OF THE GAME DAMN YOU!!!!

[Luinthoron]

If only he wasn't force sensitive himself. Not that any mental type defense would have anything to do with actually killing a Jedi or keeping that Jedi from killing you in a head to head fight. But since these characters aren't sneak attacking, but attacking openly, their comments about being trained to handle force users must refer to direct assaults.

He was force sensitive, yes, but most of the others with similar training were not. I do admit that his training was of a different kind, though.

 

On the other hand, most Sith/Jedi you encounter are mainly using their lightsabers, which can be countered with proper equipment and skills. A lot of the Force powers can be dodged as well. Sadly for these guys, the players' Jedi/Sith are a cut above the most.

[Frenesi]

First of all, you assume that every force user is killing machine that never makes mistakes. That's not exactly accurate, and when dealing with, let's say, bounty hunter, it takes exactly 1 mistake to die from rocket, blaster bolt and railgun fired at the same time. BH, on the other hand, will likely have saber-resistant armour. There even was some cyborg with cortosis plating under his skin.

 

Second, you overestimate power of telekinesis. If it would be as powerful as you describe, all of the force users duels would end up with force choke . It takes concentration to apply force in combat - something you can't always allow. So you end up with less precise attacks, and those can be mitigated by power armour, standart shock wave protection and electricity isolation (lol at sorcs). And mind attacks can be resisted, if individual is strong enough.

[Leklor]

Being a council member does not make you all powerful. It means you are a good little jedi and are very knowledgeable in the force. It doesn't mean you are very powerful in the force. Grand Master is a rank signifying the leader of the Order, not a measuring stick for fighting prowess. The Jedi Knight and the Consular are stronger than Satele, yet she is the Grand Master.

 

All Jango did was point and shoot. Go look at the clip. He didn't display any skill that was "THAT GOOD". He just pointed and shot until a bolt got through. I would have done the same thing myself. Nothing special. Coleman was weak in the force. This cannot be denied as we have video evidence proving he was a weak.

 

Not sure what you mean by "ask Malgus". Malcolm's "tactic" was having a Jedi

 

None of the tactics you mention are force user specific. They apply to any engagement with any opponent. There is no such thing as special tactics against force users for a non-force user. At least not in terms of a direct assault which is implied given the circumstances in which the lines are uttered. There are techniques to not think, control emotion in many eastern traditions and therefore not broadcast yourself to Jedi, but given the context they aren't referring to ambushes.

 

It's not really a complaint. The thread is just lines that make you roll your eyes. This is one that makes my eyes roll. That's all really. Another one is "To arms! The Sith attacks". It just seems silly to me and makes me chuckle.

 

Please do not mention Quinn and his "unstoppable" factory default droids. Or the fact that depending on your choices the Voss guy tells you you have a traitor in your midst and you do absolutely nothing with this info. With Jaessa on your ship... Ergh!! BIOWARE!!!!! TAKE THAT **** OUT OF THE GAME DAMN YOU!!!!

 

Just to point what I meant about Malcom: Charging Malgus, punching him in the face and detonating an Ion Grenade in his face is not called having a Jedi. That's what I mean: Unorthodox thinking.

And yes, Jango was good a killing Jedi, just look at Galidran.

Trebor was a powerful Jedi, at least going by Jedi Quest by Jude Watson since even Obi-Wan is humbled to receive his help.

However, I think the point is moot, it's all gameplay mechanics in the end because, reasonnably, lightsaber duels should be a lot quicker (Insta-death is the strike is well aimed) as well a getting shot.

But I get what bothers you, it just isn't the case for me ^^

[OddballEasyEight]

I repeat.

 

The subject is not rather or not a force user can be defeated by a non-force user.

 

The subject is that there is no special training one can receive to specifically deal with force users. If the force user is weak in the force pointing and shooting will suffice (i.e. Jango vs. Coleman Trebor). If they are very powerful in the force you are simply screwed (troopers vs. Yoda). The only option then would be overwhelming force which does not constitute "special training". You're still just pointing and shooting like you would a non-force using target.

 

 

 

If only he wasn't force sensitive himself. Not that any mental type defense would have anything to do with actually killing a Jedi or keeping that Jedi from killing you in a head to head fight. But since these characters aren't sneak attacking, but attacking openly, their comments about being trained to handle force users must refer to direct assaults.

 

Wow... just wow.

 

First off, you seem to think that training doesn't matter in combat.

Someone saying "we're trained to handle sith/jedi" is the equivalent of someone saying "we're trained for combat".

If you just take the average person and give them an AK and chuck them into a combat situation, they'll be dead pretty soon.

Same thing if you take the average soldier and chuck them in the directon of a Sith/Jedi.

 

But you CAN train to "handle" sith/jedi. You can train to react in different ways when exposed to a force users attacks.

You can train to react instinctively to the way most force users move when they use different force powers.

And you would train in using non-blaster attacks since those can't be parried (or rather, can't be deflected) by a lightsaber.

Furthermore they would also be trained to react to when the force user exposes himself. They'd know to fire whenever the force user throws his lightsaber or has their backs turned on them. They'd know to spread out and force the Sith/Jedi to concentrate on multiple spread out targets instead of a bunch of them grouped up.

They'd know to combine different modes of attack to make it harder for the enemy to deflect or parry the attacks, such as using an assault cannon whilst at the same time throwing grenades and firing rockets.

Not to mention to train to do things instinctively without thinking about it, which lessens the sith/jedi precognition powers.

Also, they'd know the most common lightsaber techniques used by jedi and sith, so they'd know how to get away from them, should they happen to get close.

 

And this also takes into account the training of most Sith/Jedi. They don't usually train for fighting against someone using guided missiles or multiple stun grenades, for example.

Their training (when it comes to non force-users) usually consists in closing the distance to the target while blocking/deflecting their blaster bolts and using quick and basic force powers such as trow/push/leap.

 

If you stop to force choke an enemy in the middle of combat, you are exposing yourself to everyone else in the battlefield. That would be dumb. So those kind of powers wouldn't usually be used by force users in that situation.

But a quick trow or push works great in that situation.

 

But you seem to think that Sith/Jedi are some sort of immortal supermen.

They really aren't.

Even the most powerful ones get taken down by the order 66, for example.

Yoda was the only one that sensed it.

Obi-wan was simply lucky to escape with his life.

Don't forget that using the force requires concentration... and breaking that concentration is the main point of fighting against a force user.

 

You really should take a look at HK's reccomendations on how to kill Jedi.

 

And that's just for a one-on-one assassination.

 

 

As for your "if they're weak it doesn't count" argument, that's just stupid.

Of course a weak jedi/sith will be easy to kill.

So would a weak soldier or a weak bounty hunter.

You can't really use that as an excuse.

 

The fact remains that you CAN be trained to handle sith/jedi with the correct tecniques.

 

Here's some intersting reading on jedi hunters: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Jedi_hunter

Edited June 22, 2015 by OddballEasyEight

[branmakmuffin]

*reads first page*

*skims pages 2 and 3*

 

Wow, nobody stopped to comment on "you're" instead of "your" in the topic title? No comments like "the typo in the topic title made me roll my eyes"?

Well, misspelling trolls are against the rules, I do believe.

[Miyran]

"We are trained to handle sith/jedi"

 

No, you are not. There is no possible training you can have as a non-force user to prevent a force user from force choking you, knocking your gun out of your hand, knock you across the room, etc. There is no possible way to train against a force user as a non-force user. There may be technologies that inhibit the force, but no such things are mentioned or shown in the game. That force user simply must be weak in the force or you have such a numbers advantage that they can't deflect all the incoming attacks.

 

The people that say that or, "I'm not afraid of any sith", are usually the ones who burst into flames after too much Force Lightning.

 

Exaggeration of course, but you get the point.

[Amaste]

"We are trained to handle sith/jedi"

 

No, you are not. There is no possible training you can have as a non-force user to prevent a force user from force choking you, knocking your gun out of your hand, knock you across the room, etc. There is no possible way to train against a force user as a non-force user. There may be technologies that inhibit the force, but no such things are mentioned or shown in the game. That force user simply must be weak in the force or you have such a numbers advantage that they can't deflect all the incoming attacks.

 

If you refer to the player character jedis, you'd be right on plot armor levels alone. The warrior destroys the sith overseer for all of Korriban as an acolyte, the inquisitor is a force walking god of lightning, the knight saved the Jedi order with a stick before even becoming a full knight and the consular learned a millennia old super hard healing technique in what, a day and a half?

 

Our Jedi/Sith player chars are like in the top .0001% of their respective orders, using that as a baseline for a force users vs trained non force user is far from reasonable, as the difference between the rank and file force users (who are still very much the bulk of Jedi/Sith in the galaxy) and those 4 chars is like the difference between a Prius and a Bugatti in a drag race.

 

 

 

 

Answer: No, master. In addition to traps, mines and orbital bombardment, Revan and the Sith often employed meatbag assassins for some Jedi, skilled in the same techniques that I was trained in. Strangely enough, Revan believed that meatbags that did not use or believe in the Force were especially important, since in many respects, they were more difficult for jedi to detect.

 

Revan had many of them trained to "hide their minds," as it were. Again, once these techinques were learned, the percentage of living Jedi began to decrease accordingly. Generally, this was done by broadcasting strong emotions while thinking about something else. it was a curious technique, but it seemed effective in blinding Jedi. Whether guilt, lust, fear - they act as mental interference, making finding the true intentions of the broadcasting meatbag difficult.

 

Statement: The master felt it was ironic that only people who had eperienced such passions could harm Jedi in such a way - that to kill a Jedi, you had to be a human being. Revan found that quite amusing.

 

Edited June 22, 2015 by Amaste

[Eanelinea]

My bad. Just finished another run of the SoR quests so I had ThERON's spelling upfront in my mind. I'll remember next time

 

Of course now you've doomed ThARAN to more sacrifices with more lip. "What was that ThARAN with an R-A-N? You're a pacifist AND you share the same name (with a different spelling) with someone who is somewhat less of a snot nose than you?" *SACRIFICE!*

 

HAHA. It's alright. I've just seen people get their name spellings confused and I'm so highly into the companions and some NPCs that it's like spelling my real life name wrong. I get Kr or na and it's annoying. lol

 

I can't really leave Tharan behind or sacrifice him. He's my shadow's baby's daddy.

[Eanelinea]

I'll just add that the player characters are terrible examples here because they are among the most powerful force users ever. So no amount of tactics, no matter how well thought out would work (Case in point, Quinn and his droids before Corellia).

 

Exactly, we, the player characters are supposed to be extremely talented and powerful force users and non force users. On our starting worlds we basically get smoke blown up our rears saying how we are huge surprises to our trainers, handlers, ship stealers, etc.

 

There are TONS of bounty hunters in the galaxy, but the player character is like Numero Uno Bad ***.

 

There are TONS of Agents in the galaxy, but the player character has mad skills and can take out an army of force users him/herself.

 

There are TONS of Force lightning users in the galaxy (SI), but the player character is the most powerful of all lightning using sith.

 

There are TONS of Sith Warrior types in the galaxy, but the player character can take on entire armies without breaking a sweat.

 

Normal, typical force users, like Satele, Marr, Thanaton, Ravage, Baras, etc are NOT on par with us the player characters. I'm pretty sure if an army of soldiers went up against Marr and were trained in depth to handle anything Marr could toss at them, he'd be at their mercy. Our force using character would NOT because we are supposed to be THAT super powerful specially uber.

 

BTW, I'm agreeing with you, person I quoted, not disagreeing.

[Amaste]

Normal, typical force users, like Satele, Marr, Thanaton, Ravage, Baras, etc are NOT on par with us the player characters. I'm pretty sure if an army of soldiers went up against Marr and were trained in depth to handle anything Marr could toss at them, he'd be at their mercy. Our force using character would NOT because we are supposed to be THAT super powerful specially uber.

 

 

Honestly I'd place them near the player level, we're just the up and coming replacements of the Gods of Old.

[Miyran]

Honestly I'd place them near the player level, we're just the up and coming replacements of the Gods of Old.

 

Lorewise I think we're equally, with maybe the exception of Nox. I mention him/her specifically as DS Nox is more likely to bolster and augment himself.

 

However, gamewise they can be Ops boss hard if BW wants them to be lol