Dialog that makes you're eyes roll uncontrollably into your brain.

[Celise]

To be fair if said force use is using only a single saber, you can kill them by simply fire 3 blaster bolts at them at the exact same time, since there is no way you can angle a single blade to catch all three.

 

 

Also saying "we are train to fight force users" does not mean "we can 1v1 force users" it means they are trained in whatever tactics give the best ability to fight a force user. Which if the NPCs in this game had brains and didn't stand and face tank they could use.

 

Also if you can just rip the blaster out of anyone's hand, why doesn't this happen more? Yes there are references to it in the EU, but it's very rare, and the majority of the time the force user has to fight the shooter the ye-old-fashioned way. Obviously one does not simply throw people around.

 

a force user doesnt need to block the kill zone shot, when they can jump out of it.

 

being trained to fight force users is fine but being trained to survive against force users is another. now there are some cases where non force users have bested even some of the more stronger force users around on occasion, jango fett and cad bane have been lucky enough to beat a few jedi in their time, but they have also lost to jedi, its a constant problem with jedi that they get outthought and outfought at times and end up looking rather average.

 

there are also times when force powers dont always work on non force users either, the mind trick is one example, force lightening and finally mind domination to coerce a suspect to cooperate. thats because they have received training to resist such things or because their will power is so strong that tricks do not work unless applied by multiple force users like the dreadmasters or several powerful jedi.

 

both are capable of performing and beating their enemies and for non force users the best way to beat a force user is thinking ahead. bounty hunters are the mostly likely suspects to beat a jedi or sith because as a rule bounty hunters have to be lethal, well armed and always thinking of how to defeat their target with the lease possible risk of loss in a contract, so results are needed.

[Zoom_VI]

The EU and the movies because Darth Vader did this to Han Solo. Luke pulls a guys blaster out of it's holster before falling into the Rancor Pit.

 

Reasons it isn't shown more often could be because those force users aren't that powerful or the writers want to add action and excitement.

 

The only time weapons are pulled out of user's hands are in isolated 1 on 1 situations. We don't see force users applying that kind of skill in any multi-opponent battle situation. And don't give me "the writers just want to add excitement," guess who writes the lore? The writers do. If they didn't write it in, then we must assume that such feats are beyond the typical force user's abilities. Besides if you wish to bring in things that are not written into the lore, then I can bring in things like fully automatic shotguns, which would be putting out so much lead over so much space, that deflecting and dodging are going to be out of the question.

 

Moving on, the EU already has reference for techniques. The Fate of the Jedi series references using a rapid fire high-low-high-low firing pattern against force users in order to maximize the difficulty to maintain a laser defense. The same series also references the use of Scatterguns against a force user. Not to mention things such as a electrified net whose shocks prevent the victim from mustering the concentration necessary to use the force.

[OddballEasyEight]

The problem here is that the OP is stuck in a certain way of thinking which I've seen plenty of times in RP situations.

 

He thinks that force users are pretty much superman.

 

But they're not.

 

They are aveage people with extraordinary gifts.

 

And just like anyone else, they need to train to get better.

 

And that means that there are really crappy Jedi and there are completely elite Jedi. And everything in between.

 

Now, soldiers who are trained to fight against force-users are not joe-average soldiers.

They are soldiers who were picked for their skills. They're elite soldiers for all intents and purposes.

Sure, they might not be Havoc material, but they're far from the average grunt on the frontline.

 

So what you have is elite soldiers with special training in how to fight aganst force users going up against average force users with average training most of the time.

Since force users are so rare (relative to the number of soldiers in the galaxy), that means that most of them are also not used to fighting enemy soldiers who don't fear them or see them as superheroes/villains.

So when these joe-average jedi come up against soldiers who are trained to fight them, they would usually get caught out pretty fast because they're simply not used to (nor trained to) fight an opponent who knows their weaknesses and strengths and doesn't flinch in combat with them.

 

Sure, an elite Jedi or Sith such as Satele or Malgus would probably not get defeated by soldiers like that, despite the training, but they'd struggle.

 

But like I said, the average Jedi or Sith would definately get defeated (or retreat).

But they'd probably take a few soldiers with them... but then there are plenty more soldiers to fill the ranks.

 

 

So to recap:

Raw Recruit < Jedi/Sith "recruit" <Average Soldier < Average Jedi/Sith < Special Training Soldier < Elite Jedi/Sith < Pretty much any of the player characters.

[GannerRhysode]

So given that the EU is now considered "legends" and not real, there are many times jedi fell to normal people.

 

Using Ysalamir to negate the force around the area and suddenly you have a guy swinging a sword at blasters, not using the force. IE a dead guy.

 

The Vong were outside the force, and slaughtered many jedi, as they could not feel them to anticipate their movements. The jedi eventually found ways around this, but the first few battles were very one sided.

 

Cortosis nets, flame throwers, etc. are all used to capture and kill jedi. Remember that many jedi fell during the Madolorian Wars.

 

I also seem to remember something called "Order 66" where almost all the jedi (masters included) were killed off by normal clone troopers.

 

So yeah, you can actually claim to be trained to fight sith/jedi. Now does that mean you are able to take out a High level master sith/jedi alone? Probably not. It DOES mean if you needed to kill them you would set the stage so that you would win (IE Ysalamiri, Many people shooting at once, explosives, nets, flamethrowers, etc.).

[NeuroniaSW]

Anything Corso Riggs says about women

 

Oh hell yes, and anything Tharan Cedrax really. I'd rather use medpacs than Tharan on most of my characters, exception being my jerk Dark Side Consular.

 

On topic, my ship droid tell me I am thick around the middle and packing healthy lunches. While humorous the first time...

[Amaste]

On topic, my ship droid tell me I am thick around the middle and packing healthy lunches. While humorous the first time...

 

He's the main reason I want airlocks on all my ships...

[sinnaman]

Keep in mind that the clone troopers did a rather significant job of wiping the jedi slate clean during Episode 3.

 

Yes they did but don't forget that:

 

(1) they literally turned on the Jedi in a moment's notice without any premeditation for the Jedi to pick up on...

 

and

 

(2) once they turned they mostly outnumbered the Jedi like 5 to 1 and were usually standing behind them when they opened fire.

 

Makes it pretty easy to wipe any slate clean IMO

[Branosaros]

Imperial Agents are trained to fight against Jedi... admittedly, their techniques are a little... less than honourable, but they do. On another note, the whole reason Vibroblades have cortosis weaves shows that people prepare against Jedi.

Besides, we see the IA dispatch Jedi on several occasions, with various different techniques.

Shooting them when they have their guard down, are near pits of lava, or shooting force field controls to get them killed by huge turrets.

However, you need training for this: training not to be scared of a a lightsaber, training to escape force-based attacks, training to shoot through their guard, training to put them off their stride. Maybe the whole reason the IA is equipped with Vibroknives as a standard is for use against the Jedi. You could deflect a blow or pin their saber while you shoot them in the gut, face, or any other place of choice.

 

For troopers: I guess as others have been saying, combination of varying blasts and explosives, with sustained fire on the Sith to keep him from moving, would work I guess. Havoc Squad are Spec Ops, they would be taught how to deal with these situations. If they weren't, they'd be a poor excuse for special forces.

[Gorgor]

> Dialog that makes you're eyes roll uncontrollably into your brain.

 

The stiff dialog over several levels as my robotic female consular flirted with the equally cold, evil Sith female during Revan, culminating finally in a passionless kiss. Kudos for allowing it, but yeesh.

[Dayshadow]

Just to point what I meant about Malcom: Charging Malgus, punching him in the face and detonating an Ion Grenade in his face is not called having a Jedi. That's what I mean: Unorthodox thinking.

And yes, Jango was good a killing Jedi, just look at Galidran.

Trebor was a powerful Jedi, at least going by Jedi Quest by Jude Watson since even Obi-Wan is humbled to receive his help.

However, I think the point is moot, it's all gameplay mechanics in the end because, reasonnably, lightsaber duels should be a lot quicker (Insta-death is the strike is well aimed) as well a getting shot.

But I get what bothers you, it just isn't the case for me ^^

 

Malcom would have died without Satele. He wouldn't have even been a position to do any of that without Satele. Admit when you're wrong and move on. You're being silly.

 

You are deliberately ignoring the subject. Jango Fett could kill 5 billion Jedi. It would not change the fact that he has no special anti-jedi techniques. He simply beat them the same way he'd beat any other foe.

 

Trebor can't be a powerful Jedi. The way he was handled proves he was weak. I could have killed him. Anyone with a gun who could aim and fire could kill him. Jango did nothing special. He just pointed and started shooting. Trebor couldn't even deflect blaster bolts from a single assailant. That kid padawan who Organa saw get cut down was stronger in the force. It took multiple assailants to overwhelm him. Deal with it.

[Diefenbaker]

Male trooper yelling "For the republic!"

 

1) it's cheesy

2) there is zero enthusiasm

3) he does it at moments in dialogues where it really doesn't fit

[Dayshadow]

The only time weapons are pulled out of user's hands are in isolated 1 on 1 situations. We don't see force users applying that kind of skill in any multi-opponent battle situation. And don't give me "the writers just want to add excitement," guess who writes the lore? The writers do. If they didn't write it in, then we must assume that such feats are beyond the typical force user's abilities. Besides if you wish to bring in things that are not written into the lore, then I can bring in things like fully automatic shotguns, which would be putting out so much lead over so much space, that deflecting and dodging are going to be out of the question.

 

Moving on, the EU already has reference for techniques. The Fate of the Jedi series references using a rapid fire high-low-high-low firing pattern against force users in order to maximize the difficulty to maintain a laser defense. The same series also references the use of Scatterguns against a force user. Not to mention things such as a electrified net whose shocks prevent the victim from mustering the concentration necessary to use the force.

 

I'm not going to talk about what is or isn't written because I haven't read every single bit of SW literature. And I doubt you haven't either. Either way not something that can be proven here. It's not something that we have enough information to even discuss. If you want to believe that telekinesis is rare among Jedi be my guess. I'd have swore padawan that weak don't become Jedi. They enter some kind of peace corps or something. Something like the Intergalactic Red Cross.

 

If moving a small object is beyond the ability of most Jedi then why would you need special training to handle them? What would this training entail? It's like saying engineers in ME get special training and equipment to deal with Biotics, while the overwhelming majority can't even lift a pencil. You don't get special training for the wimps like the Biotic God. You get it for the Jacks, Liaras, Kaidans, etc.

 

But my initial point stands. And apparently every agrees with me. Otherwise they wouldn't be making up strawman arguments talking about how all jedi aren't as powerful as the main character. This was never about how powerful any particular jedi is. It is about the absurdity of having training to counter the force as a non-force user. There is none. If they beat a jedi they will do so using the same skills they'd use to beat anyone else. That is my point which people are either ignoring or too dense to figure out.

[Dayshadow]

Male trooper yelling "For the republic!"

 

1) it's cheesy

2) there is zero enthusiasm

3) he does it at moments in dialogues where it really doesn't fit

 

"Now you'll see what a sith can do"

 

"Now you'll what bounty hunters are about"

 

"Now you'll see how special forces get's things done"

 

It's more the repetitiveness. If you don't actually have 3 options of dialog, don't throw this crap lines in as filler options. Just have 2 or none if they all are going to say the same thing in different words. I hate when two options say the same thing, but one give LD/DS and the other doesn't.

[Dayshadow]

Highlighted in response to all the "the OP thinks all Jedi are gods" comments, which tells me you either didn't read it all, have no reading comprehension skills or are being willfully vexatious.

 

"We are trained to handle sith/jedi"

 

No, you are not. There is no possible training you can have as a non-force user to prevent a force user from force choking you, knocking your gun out of your hand, knock you across the room, etc. There is no possible way to train against a force user as a non-force user. There may be technologies that inhibit the force, but no such things are mentioned or shown in the game. That force user simply must be weak in the force or you have such a numbers advantage that they can't deflect all the incoming attacks.

[Kraegore]

"We are trained to handle sith/jedi"

 

No, you are not. There is no possible training you can have as a non-force user to prevent a force user from force choking you, knocking your gun out of your hand, knock you across the room, etc. There is no possible way to train against a force user as a non-force user. There may be technologies that inhibit the force, but no such things are mentioned or shown in the game. That force user simply must be weak in the force or you have such a numbers advantage that they can't deflect all the incoming attacks.

 

People that say things like this make my eyes roll uncontrollably into my brain. You take things way too serious, star wars is not real life.

[OddballEasyEight]

Malcom would have died without Satele. He wouldn't have even been a position to do any of that without Satele. Admit when you're wrong and move on. You're being silly.

 

Now who's being silly?

 

Malcom almost took out one of the best sith in the empire singlehandedly...

And you're writing that off as a failure?

 

If that had been pretty much ANY other sith, he would have won that fight.

 

But oh-no, you can't win over a force user... because Malcolm didn't win over Malgus, only almost.

[OddballEasyEight]

I'm not going to talk about what is or isn't written because I haven't read every single bit of SW literature. And I doubt you haven't either. Either way not something that can be proven here. It's not something that we have enough information to even discuss. If you want to believe that telekinesis is rare among Jedi be my guess. I'd have swore padawan that weak don't become Jedi. They enter some kind of peace corps or something. Something like the Intergalactic Red Cross.

 

If moving a small object is beyond the ability of most Jedi then why would you need special training to handle them? What would this training entail? It's like saying engineers in ME get special training and equipment to deal with Biotics, while the overwhelming majority can't even lift a pencil. You don't get special training for the wimps like the Biotic God. You get it for the Jacks, Liaras, Kaidans, etc.

 

But my initial point stands. And apparently every agrees with me. Otherwise they wouldn't be making up strawman arguments talking about how all jedi aren't as powerful as the main character. This was never about how powerful any particular jedi is. It is about the absurdity of having training to counter the force as a non-force user. There is none. If they beat a jedi they will do so using the same skills they'd use to beat anyone else. That is my point which people are either ignoring or too dense to figure out.

 

Wait wait wait... I think I might understand this now...

 

You think they're saying that they are trained to counter the force... they're not saying that.

They're saying they are trained to fight against force users, as in they know the tactics and abilities of force users and they know how to avoid, lessen or even counter some of their force abilities or skills.

 

It's not about them stopping force users from using the force or anything like that.

[Kantaso]

"We are trained to handle sith/jedi"

 

No, you are not. There is no possible training you can have as a non-force user to prevent a force user from force choking you, knocking your gun out of your hand, knock you across the room, etc. There is no possible way to train against a force user as a non-force user. There may be technologies that inhibit the force, but no such things are mentioned or shown in the game. That force user simply must be weak in the force or you have such a numbers advantage that they can't deflect all the incoming attacks.

 

I think you tend to forget that there are sentient been who are immune to the Force, they could be the ones who could handle the sith/jedi.

[Malastare]

The subject is that there is no special training one can receive to specifically deal with force users.

 

But there is. Atton Rand makes note of such things. Sure, he was Force Sensitive, but he wasn't unique and he learned from others who used similar techniques. Then we have HK-47, who had his own set of tricks for handling them. And we have the Bounty Hunter in SWTOR (and Jabba in RotJ) who have been able to show resistance to mind tricks. Or how about Droidekas (Destroyer Droids) which had designs that worked well against Jedi. And remember Order 66? That was put in place as a bit of anti-force-user training.

 

None of these tactics need to be 100% effective, and they don't need to be applicable to every single level of force user or every single situation. They might be nothing more than just ways to give yourself a chance to escape or maybe a chance to succeed in some very specific situation. Or maybe they will only work against weak force users or force users that are distracted or unprepared. That's enough to label them as "special training for dealing with force users".

 

The issue you're having is that you keep moving the goal posts and redefining the words to fit your bias. "Force user" doesn't need to mean "all force users" or even "powerful force users".

 

Similar situation: My car has special safety features to protect me in case of collision.

 

Does that mean that it will protect me in case of collision with a meteor traveling at 11km/s? Nope. Does it mean that it will protect me if another car collides with the roof of my car? Not necessarily. Does it even mean that it will protect me in all cases where normal cars collide with my car at a normal speed? Nope. The normal interpretation is that protection is not absolute unless stated to be.

 

It means that my car has features which are designed to provide some level of protection in some cases where my car collides with some other objects.

 

You hate the line because you've expanded and contracted the meanings of the words to be something that it wasn't.

 

It simply says that the person saying it has been trained in some techniques that may increase their chance of surviving an encounter with a force user. That might be nothing more than hiding their thoughts and plans so the force user can't sense them as well. Or it might be ways of keeping the force user concentrated on other things so they can't pull out any of their fancier tricks. If its a weak force user, they can probably be reasonably successful. If its a strong force user, they're probably not going to be successful.

Edited June 23, 2015 by Malastare

[tmwfte]

Male trooper yelling "For the republic!"

 

1) it's cheesy

2) there is zero enthusiasm

3) he does it at moments in dialogues where it really doesn't fit

 

Sgt Jaxo: Want to come back to my apartment?

Trooper: For the Republic!

[OddballEasyEight]

Sgt Jaxo: Want to come back to my apartment?

Trooper: For the Republic!

 

I giggled

[Kyrrant]

Nah, I'm with the OP on this one, although not for the reason he quotes.

 

Its not that there's no training for how to combat Force Users, or that non-Force Users can't beat Force Users, or anything like that. For me, it comes down to two things:

 

1: Great, you're trained in how to fight Force Users. WHY ARE YOU TELLING YOUR ENEMY THIS. The default response by a Sith or Jedi when hearing this is "Thanks for letting me know not to use basic attacks on you that you might be able to counter!". They're giving away their main advantage, that a lot of Force Users are rightfully arrogant about how strong they are, because... I guess they're worried about the size of their p....istol.

 

Put another way, its like telling a guy holding a gun "You don't scare me, I'm wearing a bulletproof vest under my jacket! You'd have to shoot me in the head to kill me!"

 

2: EVERYONE SAYS IT. My god, when playing a Jedi or a Sith in the class stories, every non-Jedi/Sith you fight seems to throw that line out there, like it makes them some sort of special ******. I've always wanted to respond "So were the last five guys that tried to fight me, they're over there, the pile of body parts sorted by limb length."

 

...as a Sith, naturally. The Jedi wouldn't bother to sort the pile >_>.

[OddballEasyEight]

Nah, I'm with the OP on this one, although not for the reason he quotes.

 

Its not that there's no training for how to combat Force Users, or that non-Force Users can't beat Force Users, or anything like that. For me, it comes down to two things:

 

1: Great, you're trained in how to fight Force Users. WHY ARE YOU TELLING YOUR ENEMY THIS. The default response by a Sith or Jedi when hearing this is "Thanks for letting me know not to use basic attacks on you that you might be able to counter!". They're giving away their main advantage, that a lot of Force Users are rightfully arrogant about how strong they are, because... I guess they're worried about the size of their p....istol.

 

Put another way, its like telling a guy holding a gun "You don't scare me, I'm wearing a bulletproof vest under my jacket! You'd have to shoot me in the head to kill me!"

 

2: EVERYONE SAYS IT. My god, when playing a Jedi or a Sith in the class stories, every non-Jedi/Sith you fight seems to throw that line out there, like it makes them some sort of special ******. I've always wanted to respond "So were the last five guys that tried to fight me, they're over there, the pile of body parts sorted by limb length."

 

...as a Sith, naturally. The Jedi wouldn't bother to sort the pile >_>.

 

Well, 1: Many sith would still not change their tactics (since many of them were pretty much indoctrinated to think they were just better no matter what...) but yes, it is pretty dumb to say it to your enemy.

 

2: sure, but that's because you're special You are one of the best jedi/sith ever. They'd probably kick the butt of any regular one... but you're not regular.

[Kyrrant]

Well, 1: Many sith would still not change their tactics (since many of them were pretty much indoctrinated to think they were just better no matter what...) but yes, it is pretty dumb to say it to your enemy.

 

2: sure, but that's because you're special You are one of the best jedi/sith ever. They'd probably kick the butt of any regular one... but you're not regular.

 

1: Depends on the Sith. I think there's plenty that would try the same sort of usual stuff to show how they're no average Sith, while others might toy with them or mock them or some other stuff. Its not like there's a huge number of Sith that believe in fighting fair...

 

2: Sure, but that's not my point. My point is that the comment is just way overused. It loses all impact and just becomes silly...

[Malastare]

My point is that the comment is just way overused. It loses all impact and just becomes silly...

 

This is why the line is bad, not because of the OPs dreams of all force users being unstoppable gods or the dream that there are no ways that you could ever prepare to fight one.

 

This, however:

 

2: EVERYONE SAYS IT. My god, when playing a Jedi or a Sith in the class stories, every non-Jedi/Sith you fight seems to throw that line out there

 

...is still Internet-standard gross exaggeration. The line is used a lot, but its still used by only a small minority of opponents. However, being used even six or eight times is enough to make it laughable.