The Jedi Knight, and Sith Warrior classes need a huge buff.

[Pijinz]

So far I've tried out: Assassin, Operative, Vanguard and Guardian. All bias aside, I think it's pretty clear the Guardian is the weakest, particularly in regards to solo questing, while the others are all about equal. It's not that Guardians are totally awful, it's that all the other classes seem so much better. That's just my observation anyway. Maybe it does get better later.

 

Mainly, there's a distinct lack of burst from the Guardian. The other classes start fights with full resources. The actual numbers I'm seeing from the Guardian aren't all that bad, it's just he's got to gather resources before he can use his harder hitting abilities. So fights are noticeably longer, and then there's more damage taken and hence more downtime.

 

Here's my idea, take it or leave it: let Focus regenerate up to a set point outside of combat. Say 3. So above 3 your Focus degrades as normal, but below 3 it regenerates. Then you can start each fight with 3 Focus, or 6 after a Leap. That gives you some extra burst that all the other classes have, but in a longer fight it changes very little; one extra ability per fight is basically nothing versus a boss. Taking it further you could tie this value to different forms. It would make sense from a lore perspective if a passive form like Soresu lets a Guardian stay more in Focus outside of combat, and that would give Tanks an easier time in gathering Threat at the start of a fight.

[anwg]

As a powertech, I have no CC either, I have my healing companion out 99% of the times, double strong can be a challenge, triple strong almost always make me run for the hills or pop cooldowns. Death from above is great against a mob of normal and weaks, but I don't think anyone has trouble with those.

[brandonspikes]

Yeah... no. I played a jugg to 50 only using Vette, never even tried the other 5 companions, and it was a f*ckin cakewalk. I think you are doing something wrong.

 

Having to heal after every pack is not worth using vette.

[Jobeson]

I am a 50 Juggernaut Immortal spec. I do not know if Juggernauts require a major buff compared to other tanks or all around. I have not raided yet to find this out.

 

I do know I am not slaughtered on Illum. I run the daily isle with Vette and only die from personal stupidity. (IE not healing after 2 encounters) The group quest on the daily island did make me feel like I was being slaughtered. The AOE those two champions do is massive. I learned we need to keep our companions at range and charge in or they die instantly.

 

After I purchased the epic hilt and two epic barrels for Vette. With the damage increase (still immortal spec) the dailies are a joke.

Edited December 26, 2011 by Jobeson

[Anelyn]

Am sorry if you as a tank with a healing companion can't do the solo content on Illum, what would a dps class with a tank or dps companion do? LFG?

 

If what you say is true, is not a SW / JK problem, but content problem which needs adjusted. Don't look at it from your own perspective, but from a MMO one.

 

All classes need to be able to do solo content. You have 5 companions and CHOOSE right one for each task. If i want to take an elite mob as a sin and I use a healing or dps pet, I will die. If I use my tank KV pet, I kill it. Option is there but not in the way you seem to think of it. You need to use right pet for the situation. You want less downtime between pulls and staying on the safer zone, use the fit companion for that.

 

No, BioWare never said you can do solo content with ANY companion no matter of situation. But you have plenty to choose from for each situation indeed :>

[mastersloup]

I'm a 50 marauder and my survivability is really not as good as pretty much everyone else. specially in PvP

 

We suffer from ramp up. While i'm spamming my 200-300 trying to build rage to unleash my big attack, i'm being Cc's Kited, knockbacked, getting crit instantly for 2-3 and sometime even 4k.

 

I'd rather see a defence buff over offence.

Edited December 26, 2011 by mastersloup

[Teladis]

I'm a 50 marauder and my survivability is really not as good as pretty much everyone else. specially in PvP

 

We suffer from ramp up. While i'm spamming my 200-300 trying to build rage to unleash my big attack, i'm being Cc's Kited, knockbacked, getting crit instantly for 2-3 and sometime even 4k.

 

I'd rather see a defence buff over offence.

 

Pretty much this. All the trolls who said it gets better at 50...ya it really does not.

 

 

 

This class needs some serious defense help.

[Crunchyblack]

This thread, and threads like these are all over the place and hard to pinpoint that the actual complaint is.

 

Before we got really off track (about 4-8 posts deep) This was compaints about the Melee specific classes, well... sucking.

 

Now the question is, at what part of the game?

 

Are melee "tanks" suppose to be whooping *** in pvp or holding aggro during raids and dungeon runs? I know every tank ive lowbie quested with didnt seem to understand the concept of tankings (not a big deal at 15 however and understandable)

 

Im a marauder. I can see at 15 what the complaints are. I build damage, im back loaded in DPS. So let me guess the complaints are that in pvp we suck (since im sure well never have the time to really unleash) while my assumption is that in a few weeks when we start getting raid and dungeon parses, marauder is probably going to be topping that list. Seems the "beserker" class is meant for the long fights and will probably excel in that. Thats not to say there isnt a DOT hit and run type skill tree (havent tried it mabey its not) that may be better attuned for pvp instances.

 

For me, pvp in these tpyes of games is so repetative and boring typically (which is why i chose a class that seemed to be built for raid DPS) but i can clearly see that the beserker class in this game is going to be dreadful paired up in pvp given the huge amount of CC (the lore of this game allows insane CC btw no way around it) and the front loaded DPS range classes.

 

Makes you wonder why they didnt make the range classes with CC have to build up DPS and let the limited CC melee classes start off strong and taper off in DPS simply for the PVP. Never understood why most games make some classes highest burst and have lots of cc and be ranged as well...seems like a no brainer...especially since you can do that and still keep PVE balance.

[Teladis]

This thread, and threads like these are all over the place and hard to pinpoint that the actual complaint is.

 

Before we got really off track (about 4-8 posts deep) This was compaints about the Melee specific classes, well... sucking.

 

Now the question is, at what part of the game?

 

Are melee "tanks" suppose to be whooping *** in pvp or holding aggro during raids and dungeon runs? I know every tank ive lowbie quested with didnt seem to understand the concept of tankings (not a big deal at 15 however and understandable)

 

Im a marauder. I can see at 15 what the complaints are. I build damage, im back loaded in DPS. So let me guess the complaints are that in pvp we suck (since im sure well never have the time to really unleash) while my assumption is that in a few weeks when we start getting raid and dungeon parses, marauder is probably going to be topping that list. Seems the "beserker" class is meant for the long fights and will probably excel in that. Thats not to say there isnt a DOT hit and run type skill tree (havent tried it mabey its not) that may be better attuned for pvp instances.

 

For me, pvp in these tpyes of games is so repetative and boring typically (which is why i chose a class that seemed to be built for raid DPS) but i can clearly see that the beserker class in this game is going to be dreadful paired up in pvp given the huge amount of CC (the lore of this game allows insane CC btw no way around it) and the front loaded DPS range classes.

 

Makes you wonder why they didnt make the range classes with CC have to build up DPS and let the limited CC melee classes start off strong and taper off in DPS simply for the PVP. Never understood why most games make some classes highest burst and have lots of cc and be ranged as well...seems like a no brainer...especially since you can do that and still keep PVE balance.

 

 

 

I don't even care about pvp myself, but let me say this.

 

 

I want to do solo content, Yet, every fight seems to be a life and death fight even when blowing all the cds. Yet, I see all the other classes blow through it with 2-3 buttons.

 

 

I'm tired of saying that we just take more skill, I'm not feeling like the ****** that I should feel. I feel like everything in the world could kill me with ease. If I wanted to be this squishy I would have played a assassin and even they have tools to help them alot better than we do.

 

 

My guildies jugs and Mara rerolled because they was told it got better at 50. In fact, the content gets harder and they die faster. It takes them 3x as long to solo things that other dps can do with ease.

[Wemit]

I'm a 50 marauder and my survivability is really not as good as pretty much everyone else. specially in PvP

 

We suffer from ramp up. While i'm spamming my 200-300 trying to build rage to unleash my big attack, i'm being Cc's Kited, knockbacked, getting crit instantly for 2-3 and sometime even 4k.

 

I'd rather see a defence buff over offence.

 

My marauder is only 33 and I rarely use Slash. And most "big" attacks don't take more than one or two slashes to use tops. Why are you spamming it?

[Hambunctious]

Bioware was told of many class issues in closed beta, which I tested for 7 months, but many things were ignored, or they quoted "our metric say" blah blah blah.

 

You can take a guardian to 50 fairly easily, but nowhere near as easy as a tank BH. The difference in toughness is pretty big.

 

No class compares to sorc/sage in pve, and really pvp. They are beasts in soloing group content.

[Blakery]

If you're running into issues fighting packs of normal and Strong enemies, you're doing it wrong.

 

Maybe it gets insanely difficult at endgame, I don't know, I'm not quite there yet. But I'm nearly 40 and have had no trouble whatsoever, either in this playthrough or when I was in beta.

 

It's absolutely true that Juggernauts do not do as much damage as other classes. But THEY'RE NOT MEANT TO. Juggernauts are meant to be tanks. And I've been able to very effectively and, frankly, easily, tank every Flashpoint and Heroic that I've been a part of. I hear(although I don't know personally) that Powertechs are simply not as good at tanking.

 

Now, I definitely think that the SW/JK classes lack of CC is lamentable. That does make it a little tricky. But it's still cake to absolutely destroy things. Jump in, Smash, hit something with a Pommel Strike if it's stunned, if not, Force Scream, Sweeping or Vicious slash, rage build as necessary. Focus fire on the little guys first, then kill the stronger mobs.

 

And why complain about needing to heal after every fight? So it takes you ten seconds to heal up...who cares?

 

Does my BH throw out more damage than my Juggernaut? He sure does! But he certainly has nowhere near the survivability.

[SithCode-]

Pretty much this. All the trolls who said it gets better at 50...ya it really does not.

 

 

 

This class needs some serious defense help.

 

 

I can confirm this, it does not get any better.

[Hambunctious]

What? My powertech barely takes any damage at all in pve, and kills much faster than my juggernaut.

 

I think this goes back to a bug back in beta when stances sometimes do not work properly, and heavy armor on a force user wasn't getting buffed with the stance, even though your char sheet says it did. It was really noticed on laggy server days if you traveled from one planet to another, and sometimes on login. I'd test, relog, test, relog, until it seemed to be working properly.

[Grimmas]

It's absolutely true that Juggernauts do not do as much damage as other classes. But THEY'RE NOT MEANT TO. Juggernauts are meant to be tanks. And I've been able to very effectively and, frankly, easily, tank every Flashpoint and Heroic that I've been a part of. I hear(although I don't know personally) that Powertechs are simply not as good at tanking.

 

You clearly missed the time when Bioware said that all DPS trees across all classes are meant to do within 5% damage of each other. Guardian/Juggernaut is only not meant to do as much damage when you spec into Defense/Immortal. I'm not certain that's the case right now but if it's not, I'm expecting that Bioware will adjust it accordingly.

 

On another note, DPS-specced JK/SW lack long-term CC ability but they do not lack Focus/Rage burst. Anyone claiming that simply has not leveled far enough yet. After around mid-thirties, when you get Saber Throw, you can open any combat with full or nearly full Focus/Rage bar if you so desire and immediately proceed to use your high-damage abilities.

[Vgbeee]

It's absolutely true that Juggernauts do not do as much damage as other classes. But THEY'RE NOT MEANT TO.

 

...wait, what? Juggernauts get a huge damage tax for being able to tank, but it's perfectly fine that assassins and powertechs have normal damage output?

[Okato]

I read this thread yesterday and just figured it was another standard issue QQ affair (sorry)... I was level 30 at the time and ripping through Alderaan on my Juggernaut chain pulling packs and even taking on Champion mobs solo (Tatooine late 20's).

 

Things have changed dramatically. I am level 36 now and working my way through the quests on Quesh and it is tough going. I can take on Elites if and only if I have all my cooldowns for as much CC as possible. Strong mobs are fine 1v1 but this is the part that troubles me. Something just feels wrong...

 

I have 5000 armour for 42% damage reduction, a further 14% avoidance and 24% shield chance. Silver mobs hit me repeatedly for 550-600. 1v1 without using my stuns, I will leave the fight with <30% health remaining. Even a pack of 4-5 normal NPC's will leave me at 50%. Perhaps something isn't calculating correctly with the mitigation, or maybe all the NPC's are using elemental attacks?

 

It is a great class to play and with everything bound, it feels solid and flows very well. It would be a shame to have to shelve it due to this as I much prefer my Jugg to my Bounty Hunter.

[Sun-Runner]

It's absolutely true that Juggernauts do not do as much damage as other classes. But THEY'RE NOT MEANT TO. Juggernauts are meant to be tanks. And I've been able to very effectively and, frankly, easily, tank every Flashpoint and Heroic that I've been a part of. I hear(although I don't know personally) that Powertechs are simply not as good at tanking.

The relevant maths disagree with you.

 

Juggernauts are not necessarily tanks.*

 

When they do tank-spec, they find themselves outperformed by tank-spec Assassins and Powertech in threat generation, survivability and damage output. Assuming similar player skill and equipment levels.

 

However! When they DPS-spec they continue to find themselves outperformed by DPS-spec Assassins and Powertech. Again, assuming similar equipment levels and player skill.

 

 

 

* (Assassins and Powertech are also not necessarily tanks, but like the Juggernaut they can tank-spec.)

[Fairell]

knights dont need a buff. i keep hearing enemy/ally is immortal, and constantly see guardians getting medals for 5k+ hit. as a sin, i rarely hit 3k. so no buffs for you^^

[seoninjashell]

Since I played I always felt that my Jugg was a bit weaker, but you have to understand that this class is meant more of a strategic play, then button smash. I've won battles with elites alone, yet my other friends playing had trouble with it.

 

I would like that the jug do a bit more damage, but not a large amount.

[Dianoia]

Before we go all buff/nerf, I'd want to see how they perform in better/great gear.

 

I remember another MMO where, at launch, warriors QQed about leveling and their challenges, then suddenly turned into unstoppable killing machines once they got gear, chewing through elites like no one's business.

 

Not saying it's the same here, but scaling and damage coefficients can do strange things.

[Corran]

people chiming in with 'no problem' or whatever need to realize a simple truth:

 

 

the game changes drastically in difficulty after 40, basically after hoth/belsavius.

 

 

voss+ feels almost like a different game

[Faolon]

Before we go all buff/nerf, I'd want to see how they perform in better/great gear.

 

 

 

I had a level 50 Guardian 3 shot my Juggernaut last night.

[OjamesE]

I play commando healer and I'm half/half lvling in warzones and from my experience lvl 50 marauders do far and away the absolute most damage compared to other lvl 50s

 

also 50 juggs can usually be ignored

[Bsck]

If it's any comfort, a Sniper has the same issues - no real CC, no self-healing. If anything, they're worse off because the supposed tank companion (Kaliyo) is too squishy to use past 25ish, and the healing companion comes extremely late (Taris).

 

My sniper pretty much HAD to have a healing companion out, and if there was an Elite in a pack, I had to avoid it or die. 2 strong mobs was the limit. That said, packs of 2-3 normal/weaks weren't as bad, since we at least have burst damage.