The Jedi Knight, and Sith Warrior classes need a huge buff.

[Anonymousy]

@op

let me (43 jugg) give you a tip:

when you're in tank spec, use the frigging tank stance! (see screenshot)

 

also you have 2.5 (short) cc:

- force choke doesn't need to be channeled anymore -> cc (if not tank, still cc where companion does damage)

- backhand short cc, no questions asked

- force push: give it a chilling scream, push a melee away and run in circles with force scream, saber throw, companion damage. especially helpful to get a cooldown ready in elite fights.

 

also: use your defensive cooldowns like saber ward.

 

the real problem i have with jugg is that it has way too many proc'd abilities. -> need macros.

[ruminate]

Before we go all buff/nerf, I'd want to see how they perform in better/great gear.

 

I remember another MMO where, at launch, warriors QQed about leveling and their challenges, then suddenly turned into unstoppable killing machines once they got gear, chewing through elites like no one's business.

 

Not saying it's the same here, but scaling and damage coefficients can do strange things.

 

Warriors in WoW scaled well with gear due to how their resource mechanic worked. Warrior resource in TOR doesn't scale with gear.

 

Warriors in WoW never QQed about leveling either. Mortal Strike Warriors were BAMF and were one of the fastest levelers at launch. They got nerfed hard a month after launch and Fury wars ended up being one of the top DPS during T2 and beyond(again, due to how their resource mechanic scales with damage). Tank Warriors were also the only tanks in the game. There were no other options for tanks.

[Tamas]

people chiming in with 'no problem' or whatever need to realize a simple truth:

 

 

the game changes drastically in difficulty after 40, basically after hoth/belsavius.

 

 

voss+ feels almost like a different game

 

Hehe just did Voss. Apart from 5 sith camping the med centers and no guards in the whole planet, the mobs proved tougher - I believed the tales of it getting "better" but no luck, my commando was way easier to get through Voss. Sentinel needs stealth - all problems fixed - about to die, stealth and run away. /Envy Shadow/Assassin

[ursusarctus]

They rly dont lol .

 

So many clueless pvpers its not fun anymore .

[Desgarden]

I'd say, from my experience as a lvl 43 Sniper, 40+ Juggernauts, Marauders and Powertechs are my worst nightmares... They simply outlive whatever I can throw at them... Heck Powertechs and Juggernauts can just waltz through my friendlies straight to me, down me and then strut around for quite a while before hitting the dirt, with only exception is me getting a good healing or pulling out a good knockback down the ledge or having them get zerged down hardcore.

 

Maras are particularly depressing with Obfuscate, Undying Rage and Saber Ward... just can't touch them. Their stealth only adds insult to injury.

 

 

Assassins, Ops and Sorcs are much easier - at least you can nuke them down, if they go Rambo on you. I also find it much easier to run away from those.

 

Snipers and Arsenal Mercs are not much of a threat really, just because if you are at a disadvantage you can simply LoS and run away FTW or just wait until they get zerged down...

 

 

Basically over my history of PvP, warriors climbed from "lol free kill" status to something I don't even target anymore, because it is pointless and with all the firepower I need to down one, I would probably kill 2 Sorcs/Sins.

 

 

Mark my words, in 1-2 months you will see a whole *****torm of QQ threads about Warriors, they gain power later on at alarming rates.

 

 

This exactly!

 

Especially as a sniper you get screwed hardcore. Why? Simple because you have either the choice to burn through your energy like hell to have a -remote- chance to kill one of them before you bite the dust...but then you are more or less defensless because of the energy mechanic or you can do continous steady dps....and you will die a long time before them because you won't win the race.

 

People will realize that when there are more higher level tanks running around...but not only tanks: have fun facing a marauder with his defensive cooldowns up.

[Desgarden]

So far I've tried out: Assassin, Operative, Vanguard and Guardian. All bias aside, I think it's pretty clear the Guardian is the weakest, particularly in regards to solo questing, while the others are all about equal. It's not that Guardians are totally awful, it's that all the other classes seem so much better. That's just my observation anyway. Maybe it does get better later.

 

Mainly, there's a distinct lack of burst from the Guardian. The other classes start fights with full resources. The actual numbers I'm seeing from the Guardian aren't all that bad, it's just he's got to gather resources before he can use his harder hitting abilities. So fights are noticeably longer, and then there's more damage taken and hence more downtime.

 

Here's my idea, take it or leave it: let Focus regenerate up to a set point outside of combat. Say 3. So above 3 your Focus degrades as normal, but below 3 it regenerates. Then you can start each fight with 3 Focus, or 6 after a Leap. That gives you some extra burst that all the other classes have, but in a longer fight it changes very little; one extra ability per fight is basically nothing versus a boss. Taking it further you could tie this value to different forms. It would make sense from a lore perspective if a passive form like Soresu lets a Guardian stay more in Focus outside of combat, and that would give Tanks an easier time in gathering Threat at the start of a fight.

 

The grass is always greener on the other side, eh? Yes, other classes start with a full resource bar but they cannot spend it without severe drawbacks. Take an IA. The longer the energy level. the longer it takes for getting a tick of energy back. And when it is down it takes ages.

 

The same seems to be the case for the BH.

 

My marauder for example has no problems at all to generate rage /shrug

[Archess]

The grass is always greener on the other side, eh? Yes, other classes start with a full resource bar but they cannot spend it without severe drawbacks. Take an IA. The longer the energy level. the longer it takes for getting a tick of energy back. And when it is down it takes ages.

 

The same seems to be the case for the BH.

 

My marauder for example has no problems at all to generate rage /shrug

 

 

that doesnt change the fact that you HAVE the option to unleash everything at the start and then hitting your drawback while a jugg/gaurd starts each fight with his drawback and slowly makes his way to some rage/focus then spends it being at the bottom again with 0 regen if you don't do anything witch is effectivly infinitly more slower then regaining force/heat/energy at a slower pace. (3 vs 5)

 

 

My juggernaut is now lvl 37 and while i get everything dead witch is the end result, i have to really work my buttons to get it done, while my lvl 37 sorc presses 4 to 5 buttons and finishes a pack with full health where my jugg needs to recover after each and every pack i fight.

[silentsurfer]

All 4 of the Jedi classes are weaker compared with the non-jedi classes.

 

I think this was done intentionally so everyone wouldn't make Jedis...

 

I think you posted this in the wrong game forum?

[Esauru]

Wow if this is true, the main poster's concern at least, that worries me.

I'm an Assassin and maybe I'm playing this wrong but at 27ish?

I can't tank for crap. Now at 30ish in class quests? I still can't tank for crap.

 

Can someone explain to me if I'm doing anything wrong, or is the

tank tree a joke? I'm really trying to be clear here. In FP? MY aoes

don't gather enough aggro. I easily loose threat to the marauder I

party with and she is my level. Back at 27? I get 1 taunt, and I try to spam

shock as much as possible, won't do crap.

 

I honestly think in terms of PVE? There is something very wrong with

class balancing. But then that's just my opinion.

 

P.S. I got no clue at all what the hell is up with PVP since I ain't tried it yet. ^^

[Archess]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trevalon

All 4 of the Jedi classes are weaker compared with the non-jedi classes.

 

I think this was done intentionally so everyone wouldn't make Jedis...

I think you posted this in the wrong game forum?

 

Last time i checked Sorcerers are still Jedi and they well rock....

[Snagulus]

The grass is always greener on the other side, eh? Yes, other classes start with a full resource bar but they cannot spend it without severe drawbacks. Take an IA. The longer the energy level. the longer it takes for getting a tick of energy back. And when it is down it takes ages.

 

The same seems to be the case for the BH.

 

My marauder for example has no problems at all to generate rage /shrug

 

 

Heat management isn't really that difficult as an Arsenal merc. It's pretty obvious the way the tree is meant to be played, the rotation is clear and functional and provides excellent sustained dps with the ability to burst by ignoring heat for a short time, and CD'ing back to normal heat levels.

 

(For Veng) As it stands, you have a tree that applies 3 relatively pitiful bleed effects. Yes, they are internal(barely reduced), but that doesn't make up for doing piss poor damage. The tree is also cooldown based, with a few reductions split between some passive effects and a CD reset deep in the tree. Sadly, most of these cooldowns are relatively weak even just looking inside the jugg's abilties. You still hit them, but usually because otherwise you would end up using the base attack(they aren't quite *that* bad).

 

Basically what I'm proposing is an increase on the DoT damage applied by the Vengeance skills, and a deep talent that increases damage done to targets with bleed effects up by X% per bleed. Probably replacing Defeaning Defense. I don't really understand a purely defensive talent that far up a DPS tree.

 

Several of the other talent trees across all the classes feel like they were very close to being finished, but aren't quite ready. I still expect minor changes to pretty much everybody.

 

 

As a side note, you can estimate dps/damage done with some napkin math. I mean, it does basically end up being you running a sim on paper using average values pulled from a recent flashpoint run, but it is close enough that you can use the data to compare across classes. Just keep in mind you'll end up with a reasonable margin of error.

[tigsy]

This is all ********. I can't deny this group of classes has flaws, most do, but heavy armor jedi/sith are not drastically weaker then the other base classes.

 

If you're struggling relative to others then its on you not the game.

[Snagulus]

Wow if this is true, the main poster's concern at least, that worries me.

I'm an Assassin and maybe I'm playing this wrong but at 27ish?

I can't tank for crap. Now at 30ish in class quests? I still can't tank for crap.

 

Can someone explain to me if I'm doing anything wrong, or is the

tank tree a joke? I'm really trying to be clear here. In FP? MY aoes

don't gather enough aggro. I easily loose threat to the marauder I

party with and she is my level. Back at 27? I get 1 taunt, and I try to spam

shock as much as possible, won't do crap.

 

I honestly think in terms of PVE? There is something very wrong with

class balancing. But then that's just my opinion.

 

P.S. I got no clue at all what the hell is up with PVP since I ain't tried it yet. ^^

 

I've been 3manning the flashpoints with a pair of friends all the way up, and tanking in this game is different. You don't have enough threat to spend to aoe tank. On the other hand, you don't need to aoe tank. At all. It isn't even remotely required for you to have every enemy on you, just the golds, and as many of the strongs you can grab. The dps can easily clean up the light/standard/strong, and by the time they get on the golds, you should have a solid threat lead.

 

Guard is important, and best used on a melee if you can, since the range is tighter than ideal(seems to be about 15m, don't know if that's listed anywhere).

 

Ideally on single pulls and bosses, dps should give you a few seconds headstart. If you're having consistent single target threat problems, you should talk to some other assassins. I know the class can single target tank, but I don't know the class well enough to give specific advice.

 

And tanks are freaking awesome in pvp. Guard/Taunt is sexy. If I end up running premades, I'd love to bring 2 tanks.

 

I should note, most people will expect you to tank everything, and complain when you don't. It'd be best to run this kind of thing with friends until it catches on.

[crazyjeffy]

I'm a marauder and I kill things easily enough but if the fight lasts longer than 15seconds I start to get dangerously low

 

But on the plus side you look sexy as hell

[Archess]

This is all ********. I can't deny this group of classes has flaws, most do, but heavy armor jedi/sith are not drastically weaker then the other base classes.

 

If you're struggling relative to others then its on you not the game.

 

Lol again with the l2p or you are bad type of responses, its pretty easy when you have both a sith sorc and a sith jugg at the same lvl (37) to see what mows trough mobs easier...

 

On one hand i have my 14 hotbuttoned Juggernaut to kill the mobs slowly or and painfully using each and every button when absolutly needed to min max my health losses and on my other hand i have my 4 button sorcerer that kills everything within seconds of a lightning field being tossed after you sick your pet in.

 

the diffrence is quite huge, tyvm

[Lindraskada]

id love to see a comparison/info on what gear you AND your minion(s) are using

[Phymon]

Am sorry if you as a tank with a healing companion can't do the solo content on Illum, what would a dps class with a tank or dps companion do? LFG?

 

If what you say is true, is not a SW / JK problem, but content problem which needs adjusted. Don't look at it from your own perspective, but from a MMO one.

 

All classes need to be able to do solo content. You have 5 companions and CHOOSE right one for each task. If i want to take an elite mob as a sin and I use a healing or dps pet, I will die. If I use my tank KV pet, I kill it. Option is there but not in the way you seem to think of it. You need to use right pet for the situation. You want less downtime between pulls and staying on the safer zone, use the fit companion for that.

 

No, BioWare never said you can do solo content with ANY companion no matter of situation. But you have plenty to choose from for each situation indeed :>

 

This ^

[Atmos_ShAn]

Interesting.

I'm just lvl 33, BH Merc, with all Points in the Arsenal Tree.

I really enjoy the Game, do slow leveling and on Aldeeran atm.

 

I thought it's just because of I play a range class:

Sometimes I have have Problems with bigger hard+ mobs which have a lower level than my Char has. After every bigger Fight i have to recharge & reload

So i can't use Gault als compainion and sticked to Mako.

 

Till now, i thought this was normal and as Arsenal BH i should use Mako to heal or Blizz/Skadge to Tank.

 

So now i know, this must be my fault and im doing really worse

 

I think i have to little experience with casual mmorpgs. I play mmo's since ultima online. But I do more like the deeper ones, like swg pre nge or eve.

Edited December 27, 2011 by Atmos_ShAn

[swampthing]

i tried juggernaut and was amazed how weak it was, rolled again and tried marauder and have found that to be much much better for PVE. especially once you get the healing companion. So far the main thing is that it sorely lacks AOE and or crowd control of any kind. In pvp it seems a tad weak, or maybe it's just that sorcerers are just so overpowered. I think that might be half hte problem, the sorc class is grossly overpowered at the moment and i dunno how anyone could argue otherwise, if they toned that class down dramatically i dont think the other jedi classes would feel so weak.

[Kagek]

Hmmmm... I haven't tried other classes but as a 39 Vengeance Jugg I seem to be ripping things into pieces. About to get my 31 points ability too .

 

The only problem is that they rip into me almost just as hard. When running with Jaesa I'm ending up at 20%-50% hp after a clump of mobs about a third of the time, kinda depends if the procs/crits go my way. But almost never actually dying.

[zzzjaxzzz]

wariors are like vanilla (certain game) meele .. .getting ripped to pieces from range, before they can get in close .. if they succed they getting knocked /stunned/slowed/kited

 

i rolled sorc now, and difference is amazing, dominating almozt every warzone .. must be becaus eof mad skillz !

[Noth]

Hmmmm... I haven't tried other classes but as a 39 Vengeance Jugg I seem to be ripping things into pieces. About to get my 31 points ability too .

 

The only problem is that they rip into me almost just as hard. When running with Jaesa I'm ending up at 20%-50% hp after a clump of mobs about a third of the time, kinda depends if the procs/crits go my way. But almost never actually dying.

 

You will kill almost as fast but end with far more health as the tank spec. other classes dps specs tend to end fight at much higher health than Juggs do. That alone shows there is an issue.

[Zlattrick]

Disagreed, at least with Juggernauts. The only thing I wouldn't mind is 1 more taunt ability, other than that juggernauts are crazy in both PvE and PVP (lvl 35+). Great tanks and crazy amounts of stuns in the immortal tree.

[DarkfallDC]

DPS is low, survivability is low, and gap closing abilities are pretty minimal in a world of chain CC's and knockbacks.

Warriors definitely need a buff, especially Juggs I feel.

 

However, as a level 50 Jugg, what the hell are you guys doing wrong that you "Need" a healer companion? Jaesa did just fine for me from the moment I got her. Never had any problems.

[TYBERzan]

Now first off, I would like to say that I've been playing MMO's since I was 12, I'm now 20, and I've been raiding in top tier guilds over different Mmo's, I've always been considered, and consider myself a "Skilled" gamer. I currently am a GM of a soon to be, top raiding guild.

 

So I play A Sith Warrior Juggernaut, I recently got to level 50 a few days ago, And as I leveled up to my final level, I thought to myself how much fun I was going to have..And then I tried to quest on Ilum.. Big Mistake.

 

While leveling up I never had a problem with my class, most packs with elites and Strong mobs I rotated in my CD's as was fine, after some healing I would go to the next pack and burn them down quickly.... Then as I approached the level 40's I realized I couldn't use Vette anymore.. Okay, so I switched to my healer companion and leveled to about 48, then I was magically able to use Vette again because I wasn't getting slaughtered...

 

 

Anyways, I level up to 50, finish up my planet, and I take the time to sink everything I just did in. First things first, I re-specced to immortal(tank), upgraded my mods and companions gear, work up professions, and started heading to Ilum.

 

I started doing the Ilum Main story quest line, and I noticed something... I'm getting slaughtered against normal mobs, Obliterated against by strong mobs, and humiliated by elites.

 

Alright, so I was thinking, maybe i'm approaching this "monsters" incorrectly, maybe I need to change up my rotation, So I try again, Focusing on what moves chain together.. interrupting correctly... and still nothing.. I died to a pack that had two strong mobs, even after letting my companion take the heat for a few.

 

So I thought that maybe it was because of my spec, I re-specced back to vengeance, and behold... the same exact thing, I get decimated.. After that, I started getting really annoyed, so I logged off for the night, and decided in the morning I would re spec Rage and try again.

 

Alright, so I try again, with a new revised rotation that would work with the rage build... and ..... nothing, I got killed just as fast as before, however it was slightly easier to kill what I could. but still nothing.

 

 

I asked my friend, an officer in my guild to come over and watch me as I tried to kill normal pack, he laughed over Mumble about how fast I was getting destroyed.

 

Two bubbles and 3 lightning attacks later, he killed everything in the area.. It left me dumbfounded, how other classes are able to easliy take out packs of normal and strong mobs with ease @ 50, and use 1/4th of the buttons.

 

 

 

 

Now I know people are going to tell me that MMO's aren't balanced , and that some classes are better than others, but, BUT, this has been an issue from Beta, and I don't see my class being buffed without any attention to Bioware.

 

 

Also, This is making me NOT want to play this game, I wanted to tank, I wanted to enjoy myself, but struggling to play my class because of its limitations is just stupid.

 

 

 

And I'm not re rolling two weeks into an MMO, I put over 5 in game days into this game since Its been out.

 

 

And No, I don't click, http://i.imgur.com/MJN8h.jpg

 

SOME Things the Warrior/Knight class could use.

 

- Crowd Control

- Some Sort of in-combat healing, maybe dump rage to heal, or lower our damage to heal, Just something.

- More offensive burst

- Higher overall Damage

- Extra passive Endurance / Armor

 

 

I want to play a Warrior, not a piece of tissue paper.

 

 

TL;DR, HERP DERP

 

Ok well its all but confirmed that they nerfed those classes pre launch to avoid a player base of all knights/warriors.