Grayseven Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 There is no Statute of Limitations on exploits. It does not matter how long an exploit has been available. It doesn't matter how many other people did it. The only thing that matters is the ToS. If you exploit, you are subject to action. All other arguments and justifications are moot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidmoffitt Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Anyone else thinking that the effort they are proposing to punish/ban/warn/snicker at the paying customers who did this is laughable considering if they applied a fraction of that "motivation" to correcting the reported bugs prior to their break this wouldn't be a issue at all? I don't think they are mutually exclusive (to an extent). Having someone run database queries against a set criteria, filtering it, then applying a boolean (banned, yes no) - and possibly a datetime (UTC, banned until) to the next data migration would probably take a few hours, tops, if not mere minutes. The rest of it is managerial decision making (setting up what those criteria are), not dev time. That said, I do agree with their prioritization - fix the exploit, then deal with consequences later, thus also allowing them to prioritize other bugs/fixes/lag in the mean time. It will be interesting to see what comes of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Divona Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 A stacking debuff lasting 2 weeks or so called "Exploiter" would be fun. For every exploit you did, you get a new stack and every stack lowers your stats by 5% ending at 25% (the debuff is still stacking after 5 stacks). This is REALLY great idea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infernixx Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Hey everyone, people have used exploits before, so they should never punish anyone ever again for any exploit, it is the fair and right thing to do! Or alternatively, they can draw the line at some point, but only if it doesn't impact me! When you've established a pattern of not caring about exploiters and only fixing the exploits after a long while, you can't get mad when people act accordingly. That said, if they want to fix their horrible precedent, they can simply make a huge deal about exploits, give a game-wide warning about banning exploiters FROM THAT POINT FORWARD...and let it go at that. And when a new exploit shows up...because it 'will' show up eventually...then you make an example of those who had been warned ahead of time. But, the worst possible thing you can do is punish a huge group of players who reacted logically and reasonable to your established pattern of simply not caring enough to punish exploiters. That makes people angry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drockter Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 I do agree with most people that there should be some slight reward to those who didn't use the exploit, a 'real' thank you for not hindering the devs.... i don't apply for that reward since i didn't know it existed before today but plenty of people did and plenty deserve a little something for being good samaritans. Sorry, but I disagree... people who didn't use the exploit did the right thing... that doesn't mean they should be rewarded. I The exploiters have earned their consequence (whatever that may be). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 There was another exploit that was much more abusive than the well-known lockout issue. Do you believe it was widely known?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wadecounty Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 When you've established a pattern of not caring about exploiters and only fixing the exploits after a long while, you can't get mad when people act accordingly. That said, if they want to fix their horrible precedent, they can simply make a huge deal about exploits, give a game-wide warning about banning exploiters FROM THAT POINT FORWARD...and let it go at that. And when a new exploit shows up...because it 'will' show up eventually...then you make an example of those who had been warned ahead of time. But, the worst possible thing you can do is punish a huge group of players who reacted logically and reasonable to your established pattern of simply not caring enough to punish exploiters. That makes people angry. So you agree? Awesome, let's do that. Everyone, you can do whatever you want until we get a nice warning in big red letters not to do it! Have at it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 So you agree? Awesome, let's do that. Everyone, you can do whatever you want until we get a nice warning in big red letters not to do it! Have at it That's exactly how the game works now...you know that right?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Docthebutcher Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Come on guys and girls, this is EA...they do nothing. They will do nothing so do not worry. Personally I did not do the exploit though I was offered to if I wish to PAY and I did screen shot all 9 attempts to sell me a exploit spot. However I am the bigger fool for being honest as always. I feel the people who exploited at laughing their asses at EA and us who didnt and wouldnt do it...and so they should be LAUGH we are idiots and YOU got the one up...I am jealous ...lol I have been dealing with EA since they bought out GAMESTORM...anyone remember that? How about when EA bought out WESTWOOD??? Motor City online and Earth and Beyond remember them? Another EA wondering move and killing to great games and we got Earth and Beyond running 200% better then EA manage to do...though they bought it to kill it because it was better then anything EA had. Warhammer online...yeah what a wreck EA turned that to after they bought it out .. Yeah they kept it around for a while but it was a TAX write off and not much more HONESTLY WHO could run something like STAR WARS so bad and just keep pushing it into the mud. YES the last err expansion was a joke ...gawd I have loved star wars in every form since 1977 when i saw the movie when I was 12... EA will do nothing. HOORAY for those who walk away laughing and shame on me for being honest and not exploiting...what a fool I am... GOD DAMN i am stupid **** me EA Signed Loser for being a honest player ****ed again by EA... >>>puts rope around neck *** damn me DAMN DAMN DAMN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drockter Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 (edited) When you've established a pattern of not caring about exploiters and only fixing the exploits after a long while, you can't get mad when people act accordingly. That said, if they want to fix their horrible precedent, they can simply make a huge deal about exploits, give a game-wide warning about banning exploiters FROM THAT POINT FORWARD...and let it go at that. And when a new exploit shows up...because it 'will' show up eventually...then you make an example of those who had been warned ahead of time. But, the worst possible thing you can do is punish a huge group of players who reacted logically and reasonable to your established pattern of simply not caring enough to punish exploiters. That makes people angry. Sorry... no... Words would be meaningless... action is what drives the point home. The exploiters have earned whatever consequence comes their way. Edited January 13, 2015 by Drockter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wadecounty Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 That's exactly how the game works now...you know that right?! So let's just keep it that way til the end of time, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Luke_ Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 I didn't read the full 19 pages so not sure if this was suggested before: How about a forced legacy title for two months for those who used the exploit? Something that makes visible how many people actually did use the exploit. That would already be a lot of punishment imho... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigredo Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Two wrongs make a right? Yes, they should have taken quicker action on correcting the exploit. No, that doesn't mean exploiters should get a free pass. how the hell did you go from that comment to your response... who said anything about getting a free pass or anything about two wrongs making anything.. bottom line if they fixed and corrected the issues that the Beta Testers Told them about prior to launch instead of rushing to make launch this would not be a issue.. they would only have had to tap into a fraction of man hours currently being used to create drama on the forums and there would be nothing for you care bears to cry about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuriDogshin Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Do you believe it was widely known?! Maybe the other poster was referring to the RE-ing CM items for mats bug they acknowledged fixing in the post-patch addendum to the patch notes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuriDogshin Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 How about a forced legacy title for two months for those who used the exploit? Something that makes visible how many people actually did use the exploit. That would already be a lot of punishment imho... And it would make it easier for people to network when the next exploit was discovered, because they would be able to make a list of people who exploit bugs by noting who has that legacy title. What's the limit on how many people you can friend? Adding a "mark of shame" to a group of people who probably do not have any shame just lets them flock together for the next explot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infernixx Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 So you agree? Awesome, let's do that. Everyone, you can do whatever you want until we get a nice warning in big red letters not to do it! Have at it Isn't that exactly what they're doing now? I mean, they're the ones responsible for giving the impression that exploiting is okay. Their lack of punishment for the Nefra thing, win-trading, Dashrude, other PVP exploits(Huttball, anyone?), bolster bug, Ship Parts exploit... None of these things have resulted in negative consequences for those who took part in them. And if I'm wrong and some people 'were' punished, no one ever said a thing. That creates an impression, wide-spread in the player base, that exploiting is fine, get it while it's there, because BW will fix the problem and not bother punishing those who take part. 'They' did that. Not us. So, when they suddenly shift directions and make exploiting out to be such a horrible thing, it provokes frustration and anger. It's inconsistent. And with any authority, inconsistency with the application of the rules breeds discontent, anger and frustration. Unlike most systems of authority, though, we can opt out of this one and find other games that are steadfast in their application of the rules. So, if they want to make a big deal out of this and reestablish their distaste for exploiting and exploiters, by all means, do so. But, if they want to arbitrarily punish us for acting on their own established patterns of behavior regarding exploiters, it's going to get messy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onurduman Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 (edited) Oh, what is this new mail that all my characters got? It is another Rishi Idol for participating in Shadow of Raven expansion.. its probably a glitch the new patch brought.. DON'T USE THE IDOL GUYS! YOU KNOW YOU ALREADY GOT ONE A MONTH AGO, YOU KNOW USING IT WILL BE AN EXPLOIT! Edited January 13, 2015 by onurduman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pagy Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Isn't that exactly what they're doing now? I mean, they're the ones responsible for giving the impression that exploiting is okay. Their lack of punishment for the Nefra thing, win-trading, Dashrude, other PVP exploits(Huttball, anyone?), bolster bug, Ship Parts exploit... None of these things have resulted in negative consequences for those who took part in them. And if I'm wrong and some people 'were' punished, no one ever said a thing. That creates an impression, wide-spread in the player base, that exploiting is fine, get it while it's there, because BW will fix the problem and not bother punishing those who take part. 'They' did that. Not us. So, when they suddenly shift directions and make exploiting out to be such a horrible thing, it provokes frustration and anger. It's inconsistent. And with any authority, inconsistency with the application of the rules breeds discontent, anger and frustration. Unlike most systems of authority, though, we can opt out of this one and find other games that are steadfast in their application of the rules. So, if they want to make a big deal out of this and reestablish their distaste for exploiting and exploiters, by all means, do so. But, if they want to arbitrarily punish us for acting on their own established patterns of behavior regarding exploiters, it's going to get messy.^this x1000 i think most people will accept some sort of punishment, but it shouldnt be that harsh. but at least enough to set a precedent that they will hopefully align to in the future...because right now the precedent is quite clearly "they wont ban or take items away" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wadecounty Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Isn't that exactly what they're doing now? I mean, they're the ones responsible for giving the impression that exploiting is okay. Their lack of punishment for the Nefra thing, win-trading, Dashrude, other PVP exploits(Huttball, anyone?), bolster bug, Ship Parts exploit... None of these things have resulted in negative consequences for those who took part in them. And if I'm wrong and some people 'were' punished, no one ever said a thing. That creates an impression, wide-spread in the player base, that exploiting is fine, get it while it's there, because BW will fix the problem and not bother punishing those who take part. 'They' did that. Not us. So, when they suddenly shift directions and make exploiting out to be such a horrible thing, it provokes frustration and anger. It's inconsistent. And with any authority, inconsistency with the application of the rules breeds discontent, anger and frustration. Unlike most systems of authority, though, we can opt out of this one and find other games that are steadfast in their application of the rules. So, if they want to make a big deal out of this and reestablish their distaste for exploiting and exploiters, by all means, do so. But, if they want to arbitrarily punish us for acting on their own established patterns of behavior regarding exploiters, it's going to get messy. 3 options. 1, put your foot down at some point, but not on me, do it on an issue that I'm not involved in. 2, never put your foot down, let exploits go without punishment for all time in this game, you did it before so its only fair. 3, put your foot down now, establish a new precedent moving forward regardless of past inaction. I'm on board with option 3, if you're with 1 or 2 that's fine, but that's what it boils down to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthDymond Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 how the hell did you go from that comment to your response... who said anything about getting a free pass or anything about two wrongs making anything.. bottom line if they fixed and corrected the issues that the Beta Testers Told them about prior to launch instead of rushing to make launch this would not be a issue.. they would only have had to tap into a fraction of man hours currently being used to create drama on the forums and there would be nothing for you care bears to cry about. If all you were saying initially was "wow, they mismanaged this whole thing" - I pretty much agree. I took:the effort they are proposing to punish/ban/warn/snicker at the paying customers who did this is laughable to implicitly mean "so they shouldn't do that" ("that" = punish/ban/etc), which is a position others have taken in this thread that I disagree with, sorry if I mistakenly lumped you in with that crowd. That being said, using the phrase "care bears" unironically makes you sound like a moron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Oh, what is this new mail that all my characters got? It is another Rishi Idol for participating in Shadow of Raven expansion.. DON'T USE THE IDOL GUYS! YOU KNOW YOU ALREADY GOT ONE A MONTH AGO, YOU KNOW USING IT WILL BE AN EXPLOIT! Derp alert. They have a capped limit of how many you can actually use. In fact, it started at "1" but they patched it to "10" in December. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kdogfury Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 I hope the punishment is just harsh enough to cost them a decent amount of subs and results in bioware employees being laid off.. imo that is where blame should be placed. My distaste for this lack of programming accountability also stems from my current issues with the bug ridden inquisition multiplayer.. don't think this issue lies only with swtor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexerjones Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 So heres my thoughts. Remember when Dread Palace was bugged? Council was impossible to clear. How much gear was lost on just that bug? Any how many other massive bugs have hit flashpoints and ops over the years? Now that one bug throws free gear our way, Bioware is bringing out the knives. Think about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DakotaDoc Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 People who were selling the exploit, people who were keeping the lockout even after reset (yes that was another exploit), people who used all of their alts every week to farm the mats are going to get banned. Most likely everyone else will lose the mats they gained and/or any schematic they learned. <popcorn> emote.... OK next, can we go back and actually ban and otherwise punish all the PVP offenders, yeah the exploiters that actually affected other players and a ranked system. Thank you. BTW...I rarely PVP, so I don't care, but please dig up the data and enforce that next. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grayseven Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 The new mail, not an exploit. The ship parts bolster, not an exploit. Straw man arguments won't make a players use of an exploit no longer an exploit. I find it funny that so many people are trying to justify the exploit, which makes me wonder how much longer those people will be posting on the forums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts