kojottt Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 So do we get some kind of shame list of those who used exploit. It would be really nice to see all those names. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruskaeth Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 (edited) agreed! Don't ban your players, give the ones that do not exploit something... h a h a h a h a h a h a h a h a h a h a h a h a h a h a I love it how people justify use of exploit because it wasn't fixed immediately. Sure, BW should have hot-fixed it immediately, but not fixing doesn't make it any less exploit or more acceptable to do it. If you are stupid, your whole game account might suffer. Edited January 13, 2015 by Ruskaeth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuriDogshin Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 If I set out a suitcase full of money on the curb and let it sit there for 6 weeks am I supposed to act all shocked and heartbroken that the case disappears at some point? A more apt analogy would be, "If I park a bottomless tanker truck of beer on a busy street, open up the taps and let the beer flow into the gutter, and then walk away for four weeks, should I punish people who, after a week of watching the beer flow out and other people drinking it, fill a few pitchers themselves?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArcTrooperElite Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 (edited) On the contrary, this is a positive sign that exploiters are not tolerated in SWTOR. No one wants to play in a game full of cheaters, so taking a hard stance on exploiters is better in the long run than giving the handful of cheaters a free pass and showing the playerbase that exploiting is okay in the future. Musco says that most players did not participate in the exploit, and lacking any other official information, we have to accept that and understand that the impact of banned players will be negligible. 27 separate instance of The Ravagers were up in the middle of the day on my server. 27. This wasn't prime time mind you it was the middle of a week day. I can assure that far more than a handful of people participated. On my server I would venture to say over half of the active population participated. I know of a handful of people who did the exploit that are not only subs but spend hundreds of dollars on the CM. These are raiders that have dealt with lag, ability delay, broken/bugged fights (Underlurker) and they will quit and take their money elsewhere. You say they are showing the player base that exploiting is not okay. Well maybe the player base is showing them that releasing bugged broken content and charging money for it is not okay. Edited January 13, 2015 by ArcTrooperElite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Desperation usually leads to inane comments. In the process, he fails to point out that lockouts for LV55 operations were working as intended, in addition to the fact it rewarded players the same way it had... FOR MONTHS on end. As I said, desperation. Presumably. Not desperation at all. I'm pointing out how trivial the "exploit" was when you look at this issue as well. There were TWO massive screw'ups out...the "exploit" was only one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frybert Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 A more apt analogy would be, "If I park a bottomless tanker truck of beer on a busy street, open up the taps and let the beer flow into the gutter, and then walk away for four weeks, should I punish people who, after a week of watching the beer flow out and other people drinking it, fill a few pitchers themselves?" Where might I find said truck? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuriDogshin Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 So do we get some kind of shame list of those who used exploit. It would be really nice to see all those names. That would sure make networking to find out about the next exploit a lot easier, don't you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluecheesebandit Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 I'm genuinely curious to see what people think of this (posted it earlier but it got buried it seems) Should a person like this be included in the punishment? I think BioWare's constant inaction is their action. They haven't made it a priority to ban exploiters and they've taken their sweet time with bosses like Nefra, so their precedent has been avoiding conflict. Now with the worst case yet they try the same approach and it backfires. They're scrambling and reevaluating. This person misjudged the devs, expecting them to be prompt on an issue they haven't bothered making a priority before. His intentions were good but actions misjudged. He should've just sent a video in and stayed silent about it if he really wanted to avoid punishment. Releasing a public video seems pretty bold. /2cents Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
znihilist Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 A more apt analogy would be, "If I park a bottomless tanker truck of beer on a busy street, open up the taps and let the beer flow into the gutter, and then walk away for four weeks, should I punish people who, after a week of watching the beer flow out and other people drinking it, fill a few pitchers themselves?" Yes, if you as an adult can't resist a simple temptation as that then you have a bigger issue at hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildstarsrea Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Dash Roude, 16M nightmare, There is a way to lead this STILL to the dune wall and take it down in less than an hour with one or two people. One ranged if you have a disconnect. This has been there for 15 months. The dread fortress exploit, able to be solo'd with a disconncted, nearly 3 months with at least 5 tries to fix. The list goes on. If you punish the ravagers exploit then why don't you go back and punish all of these offenders. Punishment is unrealistic from a business perspective. Give a reward to the non-offenders is the easiest fix after removing schematics that were exploited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuriDogshin Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Response to this will be interesting. While it may be true that most players did not use this exploit, because it required a new Ops clear the likelihood is that the people who used this exploit are the more hardcore/dedicated players. The ones already level 60 and who could raid, or who were in a raiding guild. The exploit did not require you to be a raider. Any subscriber's naked L60 toon could do it. All you had to do was know someone, or contact someone, with the lockout. And some people with the lockout were (I am told) offering to sell it in fleet chat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icebergy Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Geezus...slow down Darth...you're talking about a crime, theft from real people...this was a game bug that players found and, of course, used. It wasn't until less than a week ago that it got called an "exploit". People should have good enough morals that they don't have to be specifically told something is wrong before they know it is wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jojomagro Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Aw, c'mon I need you clowns to entertain me till I get off work and it's only 11. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFBHitmarkers Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 So they can find the exploiters for this instance, they can certainly find the exploiters for the NiM Nefra exploit..and the exploiters for the naked pvp bolster exploits, and the Ranked pvp warzone exploits of win trading...punish people for one exploit, punish for all exploits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuriDogshin Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Yes, if you as an adult can't resist a simple temptation as that then you have a bigger issue at hand. Puritanism is not a popular philosophy anymore. "And it harm no one, do as you will." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fire-breath Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 It would show balls if bioware strikes hard. On 1 hand it would piss a lot of people off but on the other hand you get a lot of respect back for it. If no action will be taken this game will go in downwards spiral. So anyone who took advantage of it, but not *too* much advantage, is in the clear? Classy. Once again the honest folks are encouraged to join in the next exploit that rolls around so that they aren't the only ones who get nothing. How do you translate erics post like that? You honestly CAN participate by accident with this. For example yesterday I was in a Scum run where there was a speeder towards the very last boss without any of us locked on anything. We had some people relogging toons however. Need I say more? In between white and black is a whole spectrum of grey. The way I read it is black meaning activly selling the exploit to others vs a lighter grey of doing it once. And everything in between. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Yes, if you as an adult can't resist a simple temptation as that then you have a bigger issue at hand. Temptation?! Dude, this is a freaking video game meant for fun...seriously...keep this in perspective... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 People should have good enough morals that they don't have to be specifically told something is wrong before they know it is wrong. Video game...stop being so serious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fushnchips Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Watch all the reverse credit card charges with visa on banned users that actually fund the game with cartel purchases and so on.. Bioware will feel the real results of any punishment to the wrong person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Wicked Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Temptation?! Dude, this is a freaking video game meant for fun...seriously...keep this in perspective... So instead of having fun partaking into the gear progression game, people prefer to bypass it altogether, by taking advantage of the exploit. Your definition of "fun" is lacking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GadgetDon Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Are you seriously trying to compare the two? Were the benefits of the Ravagers exploit comparable to running level 55 ops for ultimates? No. But they were both using mechanics in the game as Bioware presented to us, mechanics that were in place from the private beta on the PTS, mechanics that gave results Bioware clearly hadn't thought through, and mechanics that sat unchanged and untouched for many weeks through several patches. And until the general "about the exploit running around" post, there was no statement from Bioware saying one was viewed any more darkly than the other. (In fact, if you reread it, could you be sure they weren't talking about running level 55 ops for ultimates, other than the fact that one was labelled by many in the community as an exploit and the other wasn't?) Fine. They consider the Ravagers exploit a major problem and fixed it. (How major given how long it took to be fixed is an open question, but take them at their word.) But before today's patch and the post today, there was no reason to believe that this was viewed more harshly by Bioware than running level 55 ops for ultimates. Nobody is saying that, if an official statement is made "this action is not allowed", those who participate in it after that statement shouldn't face consequences. But punishments, particularly the harsh punishments being called for, lacking any such official statement demands we be mind readers about which mechanisms can be used in ways they may not have intended and which mechanisms can't - and if we guess wrong, the hammer falls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grayseven Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 A more apt analogy would be, "If I park a bottomless tanker truck of beer on a busy street, open up the taps and let the beer flow into the gutter, and then walk away for four weeks, should I punish people who, after a week of watching the beer flow out and other people drinking it, fill a few pitchers themselves?" Yes, if the law specifically states that you can not do this. Taking advantage of an exploit is against the rules. Those rules don't change just because other people did it, or just because the exploit was around for a week, month or even a year. The rule is cut and dried: Taking advantage of an exploit is subject to action. Anyone who has run operations know that being able to get loot the way you could with the Ravagers exploit is not, in any way, an intended system. Anyone who did it anyway was exploiting a bug and had to have done so knowing it was an unintended bug. They broke the rules. Plain and simple. They will pay the consequences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigredo Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 (edited) /popcorn Edited January 13, 2015 by Nigredo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptwonline Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 (edited) Here is a hypothetical question in regards to the exploit. You personally did not run characters through the exploit. You did however purchase a shiny new barrel or hilt at a dramatically reduced price in the past week or two....or bought a crafting mat at a greatly reduced price to have one made from the umpteen people advertising they were crafting them for mats of late. Did you take part in the exploit? Before you quickly say no....how certain are you that the crafting mats used to make that barrel or hilt were not from the exploit or even that the maker of your barrel or hilt did not get the pattern to make it from the exploit? This is an example of how things get messy, and why they need to STOP exploits ASAP instead of just relying on the threat of discipline later. Another example: what if you didn't exploit, but some people in your raid group did? Maybe they got extra Normal Mode (192) gear and that helped them--and you--clear the HM. You benefited from the exploit even if you did not actively take part. I'm sure you wouldn't get punished, but at the same time you still got a benefit. Now you've got an advantage over other people who didn't exploit. Clearly this is not fair, and is an example of why exploits need to be stopped ASAP. Or what about anyone selling hilts and barrels they got the mats for legitimately? Prices were depressed with the glut of extra mats, and these innocents were thus directly harmed since they probably had to sell their goods at lower prices. You can't fix that with later discipline. The exploit needed to be nipped in the bud ASAP instead. I really don't understand how Bioware could not realize this, or worse: if they did realize it and did not care enough to shut down the exploit ASAP. To let this go for an entire month? The negligence here is breathtaking. Edited January 13, 2015 by ptwonline Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 So instead of having fun partaking into the gear progression game, people prefer to bypass it altogether, by taking advantage of the exploit. Your definition of "fun" is lacking. I've done both ops, start to finish, every week since release. Don't assume. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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