Ravagers Exploit Action Update

[Aienir]

I think BioWare's constant inaction is their action. They haven't made it a priority to ban exploiters and they've taken their sweet time with bosses like Nefra, so their precedent has been avoiding conflict. Now with the worst case yet they try the same approach and it backfires. They're scrambling and reevaluating.

 

This person misjudged the devs, expecting them to be prompt on an issue they haven't bothered making a priority before. His intentions were good but actions misjudged. He should've just sent a video in and stayed silent about it if he really wanted to avoid punishment. Releasing a public video seems pretty bold.

 

/2cents

 

That's exactly what he did, the video is private and only viewable by link. Only people who have it are him and CS. He did stay silent.

Edited January 13, 2015 by Aienir

[DawnAskham]

Thanks for listening to us! This renews my confidence in the game and the developers and I'm looking forward to hearing of exploiters being banned.

Though I hope you won't just ban the HM exploiters, there were a few guilds on my server exploiting it on only SM. Not as severe, but also an exploit and they got an advantage over players who did not exploit.

 

I'm sorry, but this does not renew my confidence in the game nor the developers and certainly not in whoever is managing the game right now, all it does is sate the appetite of the pitchfork crowd.

 

I'm still waiting for acknowledgement from the team that letting such an exploitable bug into live was a mistake, followed with some sort of lessons learned and changes being made to prevent such an occurrence from happening again in the future.

 

I'd also like to see an acknowledgement, if not an outright apology, for allowing this exploitable bug to exist for such a long time without a fix.

 

That it was allowed to exist in live for weeks and allowed to propagate to so many servers, mine included, without so much as even a temporary fix, shows neglect towards the game and its players.

 

To me, that is the real crux of the issue, not who did what and what should be done about it, for that is simply noise with a bit of smoke and mirrors tossed in to deflect from the real failure on the part of the SWTOR team.

 

And that failure is in providing the resources and staff required to deliver a quality and enjoyable product for all players that is free from lingering exploits such as the one being discussed.

 

My hope at this point is that the individual developers hate what happened as much as we do, and are embarrassed and disappointed at themselves as an origination, and can point to the resources being wasted to clean up this mess to push management for better support of this game to prevent this in the future.

[znihilist]

Puritanism is not a popular philosophy anymore. "And it harm no one, do as you will."

Except it does.

Temptation?! Dude, this is a freaking video game meant for fun...seriously...keep this in perspective...

 

Yes it is a game, but it is an MMO as well. And again when you are confronted with a rule that says: Don't do X, you have a choice as an adult to do it or not. If you are unable not to do it (yes I know double negative) then you as a person have a bigger issue to deal with.

Edited January 13, 2015 by znihilist

[wildstarsrea]

Bioware let this exploit sit unchecked from the 3.0 PTS. It was reported as a bug by players on the PTS. It is your own fault for launching a glitched and bugged expansion that you rushed out of the door before your company left for christmas vacation. Dont ban people for using something that you knew about for well over a month and did nothing about. 3.0 screwed up the bolster system again, bugged the final revan fight and had a few other things wrong with it. You need to look at your employees and management before even thinking about starting to ban player that make up the subsciber base that you need to even keep your team employed.

 

Well said. if the developers knew about it then it's unrealistic to even think that banning is realistic

[Icebergy]

Sure. Just as Ultimate comms for level 55 Ops was an obvious "exploit" as well? Bioware went through all the work of removing all your elite and ult comms, you can't pretend you thought it was ok to get them by doing easier content. Just...one took more time to do than the other, right?!

 

Are you really comparing playing the game as the game was intended to purposely mucking around with your raid lockouts to obtain unlimited loot, credits, and schematics and then selling that ability to other players for more gain?

 

TUX, my respect for you is fading fast

[Darth_Wicked]

I've done both ops, start to finish, every week since release. Don't assume.

 

I am not assuming anything.

 

I just don't understand why you keep apologizing for this kind of behavior, while claiming it's a game and as such, supposed to be fun.

 

Again: if it's supposed to be fun, why are people effectively bypassing something that is part of that same fun?

 

Because that's EXACTLY what the exploit does. It bypasses the fun altogether from gearing up your characters, and the achievement that accompanies it.

Edited January 13, 2015 by Darth_Wicked

[mikebevo]

Eric, you guys should just leave things alone at this point. I did not partake of the exploit, I know several who did. The exploit was due to your (Bioware's) mistake not the players. You knew about it for weeks and maybe even before the xpack released and did not hotfix it allowing it to remain in the game for around 6 weeks. You can't punish people for Bioware's mistakes or the fact that you did not respond or police this issue in anything like a timely or speedy manner. I.E. fix the exploit but don't ban people..

Semi-agree. I disagree that all the blame should be on bBoware. If someone is getting gear without doing anything but showing up, then they knew it was a exploit. So while I am against mass banning, I do think it is fair that all gear, credits, mats, schematics and anything else should be removed. I am also not against banning those that sold or promoted the exploit.

 

While the exploit was BioWare's fault, the abuse of it was each individual players fault. I knew of it, but I did not do it or discuss it. I also know of none of my friends or guild members that used the exploit. I have no clue when the next operations are coming out. The longer we keep these relevant the better was our thinking.

[dscount]

Oh .. our 1500+ post Witch Hunt thread must have been closed or out of space...

 

REPEAT conversations all over again on eric's post.

 

Let BW do it's job people... your crying for heads on a pole are just crazy.

 

Not sure what is worse the exploit or all those wanting to see people beheaded on fleet in front of those that didn't exploit. LOL

[TUXs]

Are you really comparing playing the game as the game was intended to purposely mucking around with your raid lockouts to obtain unlimited loot, credits, and schematics and then selling that ability to other players for more gain?

 

TUX, my respect for you is fading fast

 

Maybe I'm not aware of the actual exploit...but if it's possible for it to be THAT abused, you're correct...they aren't the same.

 

All I knew is that it was a piece of loot and some comms...the same you'd essentially get from actually running an easier Op.

[wildstarsrea]

I'm sorry, but this does not renew my confidence in the game nor the developers and certainly not in whoever is managing the game right now, all it does is sate the appetite of the pitchfork crowd.

 

I'm still waiting for acknowledgement from the team that letting such an exploitable bug into live was a mistake, followed with some sort of lessons learned and changes being made to prevent such an occurrence from happening again in the future.

 

I'd also like to see an acknowledgement, if not an outright apology, for allowing this exploitable bug to exist for such a long time without a fix.

 

That it was allowed to exist in live for weeks and allowed to propagate to so many servers, mine included, without so much as even a temporary fix, shows neglect towards the game and its players.

 

To me, that is the real crux of the issue, not who did what and what should be done about it, for that is simply noise with a bit of smoke and mirrors tossed in to deflect from the real failure on the part of the SWTOR team.

 

And that failure is in providing the resources and staff required to deliver a quality and enjoyable product for all players that is free from lingering exploits such as the one being discussed.

 

My hope at this point is that the individual developers hate what happened as much as we do, and are embarrassed and disappointed at themselves as an origination, and can point to the resources being wasted to clean up this mess to push management for better support of this game to prevent this in the future.

 

Yes the pitchfork crowd could take a lesson from this post as to where the blame really is

[bluecheesebandit]

You can talk all you want about this "ACTION" being taken BUT unless you are willing to take action against those who STARTED the spread - members of Zorz and Midian, then the actions you take will be unfair and for nothing . not only did you cause the coding issues BW but you let it go on knowing since TEST.

Yes i said it - hate if you want but Zorz and Midian should be banned. LET THE HATE BEGIN

 

http://www.reddit.com/user/MoXMilas

 

Read his comment history, some interesting stuff.

[JattaGin]

Thanks for the nice update, Eric. It felt good to read it, for some reason.

 

While skimming through the following pages, all I could think about was the three kids from Bob's Burgers circling around their dad, waving their arms up and down, shouting

 

"Name and shame! Name and shame! Name and shame!"

 

until Bob finally gives in.

 

As for the people claiming that all raiding guilds did this: not true. There are indeed guilds who decided to not go for it, even if they could have. I'm a proud member of one of them.

 

Now let the banning begin.

[TUXs]

I am not assuming anything.

 

I just don't understand why you keep apologizing for this kind of behavior, while claiming it's a game and as such, supposed to be fun.

 

Again: if it's supposed to be fun, why are people effectively bypassing something that is part of that same fun?

 

Because that's EXACTLY what the exploit does. It bypasses the fun altogether from gearing up your characters, and the achievement that accompanies it.

Gearing my character isn't fun at all to me...I hate it. I'd have been happier if 3.0 was just new content, none of this level crap. Achievements mean nothing to me.

[Icebergy]

As for the people claiming that all raiding guilds did this: not true. There are indeed guilds who decided to not go for it, even if they could have. I'm a proud member of one of them.

 

Now let the banning begin.

 

Same here, my guild's official policy is to gkick anyone we caught cheating.

[KrishnaeMarcelle]

And the exploit on Nefra? And the exploit on Dashroad that can done to date by the way and was extremely exploited by several players at the time it was released the contents of SV NIM.

[lightSaberAddiCt]

Why? How does the fact that anyone did the exploit negatively affect your game experience? It's not like people hacked the game or used 3rd party software. The entered and clicked a broke *** operation. Why does it matter to you if they get punished? You're just a bitter venoumous person who enjoys it when bad things happen to others.

 

What are you 12? Sorry but no amount of justification is going to get the exploiters out of the spanking they deserve.

[wildstarsrea]

I am not assuming anything.

 

I just don't understand why you keep apologizing for this kind of behavior, while claiming it's a game and as such, supposed to be fun.

 

Again: if it's supposed to be fun, why are people effectively bypassing something that is part of that same fun?

 

Because that's EXACTLY what the exploit does. It bypasses the fun altogether from gearing up your characters, and the achievement that accompanies it.

 

Reasons some one might do this.

1. no access to a guild raiding team

2. person for some reason can't raid but can play due to a disability.

3. Guilds that have their raid teams and don't work with everyone to get others involved.

4. limits on time with Real life considerations

 

The list can go on. Quit the hating and let the developers just fix it. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone though.

[DarthDymond]

Temptation?! Dude, this is a freaking video game meant for fun...seriously...keep this in perspective...

You keep talking about keeping things in perspective, and I completely agree that it's relevant in terms of the severity of the response - it's a video game, no one should be sued or jailed or fined or suffer any real-world consequences over it.

 

But the question of culpability/responsibility is still there, regardless. If you catch someone cheating at a game of Monopoly you don't arrest them, but you probably do throw them out of the game, or if you're going to allow them to keep playing you at least take away whatever they gained by cheating.

 

"You exploited a video game" is absolutely not a big deal in the grand scheme of things, but by the same token "You aren't allowed to play a certain video game anymore" is also not a big deal; and even that is at the most extreme end of the spectrum for a response we're going to see out of this - taking away a few items or a temporary ban is way, way more likely in most cases.

[Nigredo]

Oh .. our 1500+ post Witch Hunt thread must have been closed or out of space...

 

REPEAT conversations all over again on eric's post.

 

Let BW do it's job people... your crying for heads on a pole are just crazy.

 

Not sure what is worse the exploit or all those wanting to see people beheaded on fleet in front of those that didn't exploit. LOL

 

i half expected to read about hte care-bear stare going on in fleet, nope..its alive in these forums lmao

[Darth_Wicked]

Reasons some one might do this.

1. no access to a guild raiding team

 

Dunno about you, but on the Red Eclipse, I see guilds recruiting all the time. It is logical to assume that every so often, one them actually succeeds.

 

2. person for some reason can't raid but can play due to a disability.

 

So the answer is... taking advantage of an exploit?

 

Boy, you're pushing it.

 

3. Guilds that have their raid teams and don't work with everyone to get others involved.

 

^^ See above.

 

4. limits on time with Real life considerations

 

Pushing once more.

 

The list can go on. Quit the hating and let the developers just fix it. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone though.

 

You're trying way too hard.

[BrettMundee]

AYY LMAO

 

Plz No Banerino

[Grayseven]

Yes the pitchfork crowd could take a lesson from this post as to where the blame really is

 

People can try to deflect blame all they want, but the truth is very, very simple: Taking advantage of an unintended issue or bug is an exploit and is subject to action.

 

Nothing else matters. The ToS lays it out and if you violate it you pay the price.

 

This wasn't something that players could accidentally do through the course of normal game play. Using this exploit took foreknowledge and active participation. Ops bosses are intended to be defeated once per week per the lockout timer anyone who does Ops knows very well. Ops bosses are only meant to give a player loot once per defeat, once per week...this is how the system has been for a while.

 

If you did anything to get around the defeat/lockout system, you didn't do it accidentally.

 

Again, it doesn't matter how long it existed before it was fixed. The rules don't say "you can take advantage of an exploit if it has been around for a long time or it makes it from the PTS to live". They say that taking advantage of an exploit is subject to action.

 

You can try to rationalize taking advantage of an exploit all you want, it won't change the fact that you broke the rules.

[wildstarsrea]

So they can find the exploiters for this instance, they can certainly find the exploiters for the NiM Nefra exploit..and the exploiters for the naked pvp bolster exploits, and the Ranked pvp warzone exploits of win trading...punish people for one exploit, punish for all exploits.

 

Yes bioware, punish all the exploiters or none. If you are selective then you will lose even more respect and lose valued subscribers IMO

[Spamfritter]

I'm sorry, but this does not renew my confidence in the game nor the developers and certainly not in whoever is managing the game right now, all it does is sate the appetite of the pitchfork crowd.

 

I'm still waiting for acknowledgement from the team that letting such an exploitable bug into live was a mistake, followed with some sort of lessons learned and changes being made to prevent such an occurrence from happening again in the future.

 

I'd also like to see an acknowledgement, if not an outright apology, for allowing this exploitable bug to exist for such a long time without a fix.

 

That it was allowed to exist in live for weeks and allowed to propagate to so many servers, mine included, without so much as even a temporary fix, shows neglect towards the game and its players.

 

To me, that is the real crux of the issue, not who did what and what should be done about it, for that is simply noise with a bit of smoke and mirrors tossed in to deflect from the real failure on the part of the SWTOR team.

 

And that failure is in providing the resources and staff required to deliver a quality and enjoyable product for all players that is free from lingering exploits such as the one being discussed.

 

My hope at this point is that the individual developers hate what happened as much as we do, and are embarrassed and disappointed at themselves as an origination, and can point to the resources being wasted to clean up this mess to push management for better support of this game to prevent this in the future.

 

This is the real issue and that's where the blame should be directed.

[Taorus]

This is EAWare. They will not do anything. The may remove a few mods or schematics, But that is all. EAWare talks a big game, But anyone who has played SWTOR for any length of time knows they only do small.

For those that took part in this do not fear NO bans are incoming. Just and e-mail saying you have been "warned".

People have been using the under-map exploit since SWTOR's inception....They have never been banned. You will not either.