Bioware says NO LFD TOOL.

[GetPloughed]

What the hell am I reading in this topic, I can't even get to the third page with all these people talking about how a LFD ruins the community of a server?

 

No, spamming in general ruins a communities server because people:

 

1) get pissed off spamming and waiting and decide to go quest instead of doing the flashpoint in the first place, on my recent Bounty Hunter I waited til 15 and solo'd Black Talon because I couldn't find a group. And on DK I skipped a few group quests because once again there was no group to be found.

 

2) people get pissed at the spammers, they put those people on ignore. Really helps the community of the server when everyone is ignoring everyone else because people can't find a group for a flashpoint.

 

Either add a LFD for just the server so people can actually find a group, or buff companions and allow us to take 3 of them into Flashpoints/Heroic quests so they can actually be done.

 

Because these first couple worlds/flashpoints are just going to get worse, especially for newer players.

[aureliastarr]

Wow that makes me think about cancelling and staying with Rift.

[Bleedbloo]

Just have the system not group you up with people who you put on your ignore list. Now people don't want to be douchebags because if they get on to many ignore lists they'll find themselves waiting a very long time in the LFD system.

 

You assume that people think that far in advance because you do, however that is not the case. In order to truly modify behavior, concequences need to be immediate and out weigh perceived rewards.

[Barracudastr]

And for you tards that are playing up the whole well if your a dbag people wont group with you.

 

a server side LFD would be the same.... enter que.... see that the server clown is in your group.... vote kick.

 

I mean really some of you are so one sided its not even funny.

[Ethern]

You assume that people think that far in advance because you do, however that is not the case. In order to truly modify behavior, concequences need to be immediate and out weigh perceived rewards.

If being denied group's access is not an immediate punishment, then what is one?

[Dakkongj]

WoW's lfd tool is fine. It is the people who use the tool that are the problem, the lfd tool is just that a tool. The tool didn't stop people from communicating, people stopped doing that on their own, because typing tended to extend the amount of time it took to complete a dungeon.

 

I've had better groups with the tool then I ever did by standing in Ironforge/ogrimmar for hours spamming lfg. The wow community outside of guilds was always bad, remember Barrens chat? This has just been amplified due to the sheer number of players in that game.

 

I've been in a few groups so far and it has been the same, get the invite, then complete the flashpoint with out a word spoken. But the wait time to actually find people is ridiculous. As to guilds, haven't found one yet, the lack of a guild finder makes finding a guild with a half decent name on my server difficult.

 

The addition of more features such as a lfd tool will only help give the players more options, and more options is generally a good thing.

[Jeweledleah]

If I understand correctly, this effort should be mandatory and so heavy at the point of not finding a group for the night at all? Just because you think that you should treat people differently depending on the way you recruit them?

Excuse me, but not only it is stupid, but also, it is actually LESS SOCIAL to think that way.

 

it exactly IS less social to think that way. but guess what. some people, a lot of the people who cannot find a group now think EXACTLY that way. not all. but enough. and enabling them is like adding a rotten apple to a bag full of perfectly good apples. you know what happens when you add ONE rotten apple to a bag of the good ones? ALL of them rot, until none of the apples are edible.

 

and yes. at least some effort should be mandatory. effort to actually contact people not check off the boxes and then forget about it until another box pops up for you to check off after which you are automatically teleported in and then automatically teleported out.

 

I will disregard you calling me stupid becasue frankly that's how I'm starting to feel about you.

[Crogga]

What the hell am I reading in this topic, I can't even get to the third page with all these people talking about how a LFD ruins the community of a server?

 

No, spamming in general ruins a communities server because people:

 

1) get pissed off spamming and waiting and decide to go quest instead of doing the flashpoint in the first place, on my recent Bounty Hunter I waited til 15 and solo'd Black Talon because I couldn't find a group. And on DK I skipped a few group quests because once again there was no group to be found.

 

2) people get pissed at the spammers, they put those people on ignore. Really helps the community of the server when everyone is ignoring everyone else because people can't find a group for a flashpoint.

 

Either add a LFD for just the server so people can actually find a group, or buff companions and allow us to take 3 of them into Flashpoints/Heroic quests so they can actually be done.

 

Because these first couple worlds/flashpoints are just going to get worse, especially for newer players.

 

Agree. There's alot of false information about Wow's lfd. Now is actually the best time to have it when you want people to get hooked and not be frustrated finding a group. (2 hours for me as dps last night on a supposedly "full" server.)

 

After that I decided to do what everyone else seems to be doing- skip content and move on. Don't waste too much time. Come back maybe later when I can solo it.

 

Once I'm level capped and I'm not in a guild and I have to resort to spamming general all night- I imagine I'll be cancelling and going back to wow like I'll bet many other people will if it gets to that point.

[therealjedi]

This is good news.. Lfd is a terrible tool

[Fastor]

and yes. at least some effort should be mandatory. effort to actually contact people not check off the boxes and then forget about it until another box pops up for you to check off after which you are automatically teleported in and then automatically teleported out.

As a basic economic principle, lowering a barrier to entry will result in inferior "products" entering the market. But, is that the really the method we want to use to increase the quality of players? Wouldn't it be better to incentivize good behavior instead of just making it more difficult to get a party together?

[Barracudastr]

it exactly IS less social to think that way. but guess what. some people, a lot of the people who cannot find a group now think EXACTLY that way. not all. but enough. and enabling them is like adding a rotten apple to a bag full of perfectly good apples. you know what happens when you add ONE rotten apple to a bag of the good ones? ALL of them rot, until none of the apples are edible.

 

and yes. at least some effort should be mandatory. effort to actually contact people not check off the boxes and then forget about it until another box pops up for you to check off after which you are automatically teleported in and then automatically teleported out.

 

I will disregard you calling me stupid becasue frankly that's how I'm starting to feel about you.

 

So tell me what effort does it take to type /1 LFG/LFM insert FP here?

 

And tell me once the group is formed what social activities take place that dont take place in a LFD group.

 

Spam chat get whisper ill go, invite people. go to fp run fp leave group thats generally how it goes now.

 

LFD would be exactly the same except chat wouldn't be spammed and you wouldn't be standing around afk for an hour finding a group.

 

Im a good player im nice in group i dont ninja, i help people. But geuss what all my friends dont nessicarily do what I want to do when I want to do it. hence having to look for groups in a sharded channel where theres only 50 people.... if that? Wheres the logic there?

 

Please let me know. And I get groups just fine is not an answer. Thats like a car manufacturer making a faulty car and someone crashing and being like yo wheres this safety feature then you jumping in being like ummmm didn't happen to me they shouldn't add that because then the car will have less power and since I dont have any issues it must be you.... thats what this is basically happening in this thread with people against LFD.

Edited December 25, 2011 by Barracudastr

[Bleedbloo]

If being denied group's access is not an immediate punishment, then what is one?

 

He was talking about adding people to an ignore list that would gradually grow until they could no longer find a group. Having an LFD allows a person to not care if they get kicked because they can immediately queue again, go back to questing, and try again. Sitting in LFD requires NO effort.

 

My point is, if forming a group requires effort, people will recognize that and act accordingly to protect their own interest by insuring the group is successful.

[acheros]

Good! That ruined (partially) WoW's community.

 

its entirely misblamed. WoW -had- no community. and even then, all groups where was spamming trade chat till you got a group, doing the dungeon, then immediately forgetting everyones name.

[Crogga]

WoW's lfd tool is fine. It is the people who use the tool that are the problem, the lfd tool is just that a tool. The tool didn't stop people from communicating, people stopped doing that on their own, because typing tended to extend the amount of time it took to complete a dungeon.

 

I've had better groups with the tool then I ever did by standing in Ironforge/ogrimmar for hours spamming lfg. The wow community outside of guilds was always bad, remember Barrens chat? This has just been amplified due to the sheer number of players in that game.

 

I've been in a few groups so far and it has been the same, get the invite, then complete the flashpoint with out a word spoken. But the wait time to actually find people is ridiculous. As to guilds, haven't found one yet, the lack of a guild finder makes finding a guild with a half decent name on my server difficult.

 

The addition of more features such as a lfd tool will only help give the players more options, and more options is generally a good thing.

 

Exactly. And it's not like people don't prefer their guild or friends list anyway. It's not like anything is taken away from you. The good soooo outweighs the bad. And the majority of that bad is exagarrated way out of proportion and sometimes even just false and misinformed based on what I've read on these forums.

[Fastor]

My point is, if forming a group requires effort, people will recognize that and act accordingly to protect their own interest by insuring the group is successful.

Please refer to my post at the top of this page and see if you can answer my concern.

[Ethern]

it exactly IS less social to think that way. but guess what. some people, a lot of the people who cannot find a group now think EXACTLY that way. not all. but enough. and enabling them is like adding a rotten apple to a bag full of perfectly good apples. you know what happens when you add ONE rotten apple to a bag of the good ones? ALL of them rot, until none of the apples are edible.

 

and yes. at least some effort should be mandatory. effort to actually contact people not check off the boxes and then forget about it until another box pops up for you to check off after which you are automatically teleported in and then automatically teleported out.

 

I will disregard you calling me stupid becasue frankly that's how I'm starting to feel about you.

Thanks for proving my point: yours do not make sense.

This extra effort you require for everyone is just too selfish to constitute a solid ground for denying a whole feature. I should add extra effort just for you , just to see how you will take it.

I'll go ahead and ignore you as well. I can't believe my eyes on what you have posted.

[Barracudastr]

it exactly IS less social to think that way. but guess what. some people, a lot of the people who cannot find a group now think EXACTLY that way. not all. but enough. and enabling them is like adding a rotten apple to a bag full of perfectly good apples. you know what happens when you add ONE rotten apple to a bag of the good ones? ALL of them rot, until none of the apples are edible.

 

and yes. at least some effort should be mandatory. effort to actually contact people not check off the boxes and then forget about it until another box pops up for you to check off after which you are automatically teleported in and then automatically teleported out.

 

I will disregard you calling me stupid becasue frankly that's how I'm starting to feel about you.

 

So tell me what effort does it take to type /1 LFG/LFM insert FP here?

 

And tell me once the group is formed what social activities take place that dont take place in a LFD group.

 

Spam chat get whisper ill go, invite people. go to fp run fp leave group thats generally how it goes now.

 

LFD would be exactly the same except chat wouldn't be spammed and you wouldn't be standing around afk for an hour finding a group.

 

Im a good player im nice in group i dont ninja, i help people. But geuss what all my friends dont nessicarily do what I want to do when I want to do it. hence having to look for groups in a sharded channel where theres only 50 people.... if that? Wheres the logic there?

 

Please let me know. And I get groups just fine is not an answer. Thats like a car manufacturer making a faulty car and someone crashing and being like yo wheres this safety feature then you jumping in being like ummmm didn't happen to me they shouldn't add that because then the car will have less power and since I dont have any issues it must be you.... thats what this is basically happening in this thread with people against LFD.

[Mograth]

So it's perfectly fine to sit through 10-12 loading screens, hopping planets to find people? rofl

 

At least add a group search channel for 1-10, 11-20, 21-30, 31-40, 41-50 that can be joined from a higher level. That would make things A LOT easier.

Edited December 25, 2011 by Mograth

[Ethern]

 

My point is, if forming a group requires effort, people will recognize that and act accordingly to protect their own interest by insuring the group is successful.

But the point, is that most of the times those extra efforts are in vain, since the recruitment process is done in a way that forming a group is not only a hassle under circumstances, but also has high chances of not happening. Your extra effort is more often punishing than rewarding.

If those extra efforts assured an increased chance to find a group compared to the LFD, you all would have a point. But actually it does not. It is inferior in many ways, and its superiority on the quality of the group per se has yet to be proven.

You all miss the point. While it's better to have a group with a more friendly interactions, this is not the real purpose, nor the content of the game. THE GOAL IS TO EXPERIENCE THE CONTENT !!!

[scrynen]

Good! That ruined (partially) WoW's community.

 

I am so sick of hearing this, WoW never had a good community. I met some of the most terrible people during vanilla. Just awful human beings.

Edited December 25, 2011 by scrynen

[Bleedbloo]

As a basic economic principle, lowering a barrier to entry will result in inferior "products" entering the market. But, is that the really the method we want to use to increase the quality of players? Wouldn't it be better to incentivize good behavior instead of just making it more difficult to get a party together?

 

Motivation through positive reinforcement is always better.

 

The incentive for people to be a nice person and effective player while in a group is ease of getting groups in the future (through friends and reputation). The LFD removes this by making it always easy to get a group.

[Fastor]

Motivation through positive reinforcement is always better.

 

The incentive for people to be a nice person and effective player while in a group is ease of getting groups in the future (through friends and reputation). The LFD removes this by making it always easy to get a group.

Is it possible that Bioware could add incentives to the game that would outweigh the lower quality introduced by removing barriers to entry?

[Crogga]

So it's perfectly fine to sit through 10-12 loading screens, hopping planets to find people? rofl

 

At least add a group search channel for 1-10, 11-20, 21-30, 31-40, 41-50 that can be joined from a higher level. That would make things A LOT easier.

 

Lol. Yeah as people get higher level, I'm sorry this crap just isn't going to fly. BW can ride on the hype and great other stuff for awhile, but eventually it will die down and people will demand features like this more and more or simply leave. (i suspect it will be added sooner than expected). Even reviewers comment on the bad LFG system despite loving the game.

 

It's not like it was back in vanilla either- no matter what the charts and research show. A new standard has been set. I'm not sure BW realizes that.

 

I like your suggestions from a dev standpoint- if it's too hard to develop a true dungeon finder right now.

Edited December 25, 2011 by Crogga

[Jeweledleah]

Is it possible that Bioware could add incentives to the game that would outweigh the lower quality introduced by removing barriers to entry?

 

WoW tried it by adding extra gold, badges and in some cases (Oculus) loot to encourage people to finish instances. it didn't help any.

 

if you have any other ideas on how to offer incentives and track being nice, while simultaneously allowing automated, random grouping? I'd love to hear them.

 

edited. it took me months of playing WoW to get to the point where I could find any group i wanted with ease. SWTOR has been out for less then 2 weeks if you count early access. I already have couple of people on my friend list that I met while playing. and I'm far from the most social or outgoing person out there.

Edited December 25, 2011 by Jeweledleah

[Ethern]

Motivation through positive reinforcement is always better.

 

The incentive for people to be a nice person and effective player while in a group is ease of getting groups in the future (through friends and reputation). The LFD removes this by making it always easy to get a group.

This may be a MMORPG, but this is a combat oriented game, not a social network.

In the name of what the social aspect - though important- should take precedence over the gameplay?

Finding a group and experiencing the group content is what people are looking for - not forcedly to have a whole fulfilling social session.