Bioware says NO LFD TOOL.

[Ethern]

Look at you putting words in my mouth. Please don't do that, it's rude.

Then contribute to the topic in a constructive way instead of getting away with one liners and responses. Your solutions to the PuGers/alts/newcomers in one year not finding groups being????

[Flyjedi]

Ok. Here's how I see it.

 

It's all about slowing down player progression. If it takes you 10 times as long to get something done, you'll have to play 10 times longer, which means spending more money in sub fees. Really.. I keep saying, it's all about the money.

 

Why do you think it takes 3 or 4 zones to get from your ship to the actual planet/city zone? Time... wasted time traveling for no reason when you could zone right into the city zone. There are no technological factors stopping Bioware from creating a LFG tool, and if you read some of the many, many posts on it, most people want it.

 

For anyone who hasn't played a game that has it, and think it makes no difference, you are fooling yourself. It is SUCH a time saver. Which is why you don't see it yet. Like I said, the more time you spend waiting and traveling, the less you are getting done and the longer it takes for you to get to max level, and maybe get bored and move on.

 

I'm not a conspiracy theorist, this actually makes a lot of sense if you think about it. Oops.. I used the no-no word.. "think".

[dembonez]

How did dungeon finder ruin the WoW community? I keep reading it in this thread but no one seems exactly sure on the why. As far as I can tell the chat is just as full with random LFG crap as always. The only thing cross-server queues did was kill server PvP competition. No one cared in WoW who was running the instance with them (barring the whole relatively new gear score thing) as long as they finished. For starters this game is barely an MMO. To be forced to sit on the fleet spamming a channel or on a single planet hoping someone says yes is not fun nor is it social.

 

If you do not want to utilize the tool, don't. That channel is still sitting there for you to use and "socialize". It sounds like a smoker insisting everyone not smoke because if the temptation is there they will use it regardless of everything they say to the contrary. If that is not the case, why do you care?

[Rigo]

I'll be impressed if there isn't one in 6 months.

[SWGVet]

Another speculation and shortcut reasoning. Not to mention that his post explains how a LFD creates a bad community... Actually he can't back this up.

Implying that TOR LFD has to be a clone of WoW's...

 

I was using it as an example since you know I've played WoW since open beta and release. I have enough time well spent in WoW to say that it did kill the game. Seven and a half years of playing is enough to back my own opinion up on it. I could care less if you think otherwise. I'm not totally against it but I prefer not having it at all, it will only lead to destruction of the game.

Edited December 25, 2011 by SWGVet

[Flyjedi]

I was using it as an example since you know I've played WoW since open beta and release. I have enough time well spent in WoW to say that it did kill the game. Seven and a half years of playing is enough to back my own opinion up on it. I could care less if you think otherwise.

 

I also played a lot of WoW. 17 level 85 characters when I finally left. I loved the LFG tool. No spamming LFG, no waiting in a zone for a tank or a healer for hours doing nothing else. Please, tell me how the LFG tool "ruined" the game for you other than just saying it did.

[Ethern]

Ok. Here's how I see it.

 

It's all about slowing down player progression. If it takes you 10 times as long to get something done, you'll have to play 10 times longer, which means spending more money in sub fees. Really.. I keep saying, it's all about the money.

 

Why do you think it takes 3 or 4 zones to get from your ship to the actual planet/city zone? Time... wasted time traveling for no reason when you could zone right into the city zone. There are no technological factors stopping Bioware from creating a LFG tool, and if you read some of the many, many posts on it, most people want it.

 

For anyone who hasn't played a game that has it, and think it makes no difference, you are fooling yourself. It is SUCH a time saver. Which is why you don't see it yet. Like I said, the more time you spend waiting and traveling, the less you are getting done and the longer it takes for you to get to max level, and maybe get bored and move on.

 

I'm not a conspiracy theorist, this actually makes a lot of sense if you think about it. Oops.. I used the no-no word.. "think".

Interesting theory. And it is probably right.

However I think that having many players frustrated because unable to find groups in correct delays will have detrimental effects on the amount of subscription.

Unless Bioware does not care and is aiming exclusively at the solo'ing crowd.

[Jimer_Lins]

Then contribute to the topic in a constructive way instead of getting away with one liners and responses.

 

Well, I think I'll just point upthread to the detailed and civil posts I wrote laying out my position. I'm sorry if you're irritated that I won't engage your strawman. I'm also not going to play the game of "You can't use that argument".

 

You can take on my points, refute them or hear me out, but so far you haven't demonstrated that you're willing to carry on a civil discourse.

 

Your solutions to the PuGers/alts/newcomers in one year not finding groups being????

 

Are you asserting that because you believe there will be a problem in one year (and have not provided evidence for that assertion), and that the current debate does not cover that issue, that I must not be correct because I don't bring a solution forth for it?

 

Try arguing the point at hand. The issue is not what happens in a year- the issue is whether a LFG tool is needed or beneficial. I assert that it is neither, and have provided my reasoning for that assertion. I reject the notion that because you think it is, and that the lack of one creates even more notional problems, that I must come up with a solution to consequences of your perception of the issue before I can be taken seriously.

[Wolfeisberg]

How does spamming /1 with the same LFG create a community, that a server side only LFG system cannot?

 

I want an answer to this that doesn't bring up WoW Cross Realm LFD and all the problems that come with it being a cross realm LFD, ie loot ninjas and douchebags because of no accountability.

[Fastor]

I was using it as an example since you know I've played WoW since open beta and release. I have enough time well spent in WoW to say that it did kill the game. Seven and a half years of playing is enough to back my own opinion up on it. I could care less if you think otherwise. I'm not toally against it but I prefer not having it at all, it will only lead to destruction of the game.

Why do you immediately jump to the conclusion that because the solution that Blizzard implemented in WoW had a negative impact, that Bioware should not create their own tool to make finding groups easier? The current system is obviously not working for a good number of people. Holding up WoW's LFD tool as a straw man and saying that Bioware's decision is correct is a pretty weak argument.

[Ethern]

I was using it as an example since you know I've played WoW since open beta and release. I have enough time well spent in WoW to say that it did kill the game. Seven and a half years of playing is enough to back my own opinion up on it. I could care less if you think otherwise. I'm not totally against it but I prefer not having it at all, it will only lead to destruction of the game.

Shortcut. You claimed it ruined WoW, so wrongly you think it will systematically have the same effect in TOR, without knowing if its implementation will be the same. Weird reasoning. That's just irrational fear. Irrational fear to deny a feature is...stupid.

[SWGVet]

How does spamming the same lfg message over and over again create a community?

 

I don't think anyone on this thread has actually come out and said how spamming lfg messages creates a community. So tell us.

 

Communication between group members, actually talking to one another is much better than being forced with douches thrown into an LFG dungeon finder, only having to repeat the same steps over and over because of poor attitudes and poor sportsmanship. It creates more problems than its worth.

[Jimer_Lins]

and if you read some of the many, many posts on it, most people want it.

 

Citation needed. I'd like to know how you arrived at the conclusion that "most" want it. All we can see is those who populate the forums, which are not the majority- whether they represent an accurate cross-section of opinion is another matter (I tend to think they do not).

[dozerking]

How did dungeon finder ruin the WoW community? I keep reading it in this thread but no one seems exactly sure on the why. As far as I can tell the chat is just as full with random LFG crap as always. The only thing cross-server queues did was kill server PvP competition. No one cared in WoW who was running the instance with them (barring the whole relatively new gear score thing) as long as they finished. For starters this game is barely an MMO. To be forced to sit on the fleet spamming a channel or on a single planet hoping someone says yes is not fun nor is it social.

 

If you do not want to utilize the tool, don't. That channel is still sitting there for you to use and "socialize". It sounds like a smoker insisting everyone not smoke because if the temptation is there they will use it regardless of everything they say to the contrary. If that is not the case, why do you care?

 

Couldn't agree more.

[dozerking]

Honestly, they're probably not adding it in because they don't have any clue how to make it work properly.

 

This is the first thing that crossed my mind. lol

[Jeweledleah]

How did dungeon finder ruin the WoW community? I keep reading it in this thread but no one seems exactly sure on the why. As far as I can tell the chat is just as full with random LFG crap as always. The only thing cross-server queues did was kill server PvP competition. No one cared in WoW who was running the instance with them (barring the whole relatively new gear score thing) as long as they finished. For starters this game is barely an MMO. To be forced to sit on the fleet spamming a channel or on a single planet hoping someone says yes is not fun nor is it social.

 

If you do not want to utilize the tool, don't. That channel is still sitting there for you to use and "socialize". It sounds like a smoker insisting everyone not smoke because if the temptation is there they will use it regardless of everything they say to the contrary. If that is not the case, why do you care?

 

let me saying again for you then. automatic cross server grouping removed most need for cooperation. things not going smoothly? leave, rejoin the queue, who cares you can just redo the instance, not like you are truly locked out of it. ninja items with impunity becasue you'll be able to find groups anyways, random selection will ensure that. be as nasty as you wish, becasue there's cooldown for kicking people now and they cannot get rid of you anyways. why is there a cooldown? becasue people abused the kick function. no need to make friends, no need to form bonds, just queue up to people that might as well be henchmen. why talk to someone when you will most likely never meet them again? and even on your own server, you can be as horrible as you want ,because who cares how the rest of the server sees you, you don't need them, you have a random tool to find groups for you.

 

when they first introduced LFD in WoW, I was ecstatic. i was so happy. I could run things with my alts, I could level through early instances! and it was amazing... for the first month or so... and then... people got rid of the last vestiges of residual need to be nice... and eventually, I unsubscribed from WoW. feeling nostalgic few months ago and becasue they gave me free 7 days.. I resubbed. and remembered all the reasons why I unsubbed in a first place. and all it took was couple of random dungeons.

[Fastor]

Communication between group members, actually talking to one another is much better than being forced with douches thrown into an LFG dungeon finder, only having to repeat the same steps over and over because of poor attitudes and poor sportsmanship. It creates more problems than its worth.

I don't understand the logic that a tool that would make finding groups easier would mean that group members wouldn't communicate or talk to one another. Are you supposing that there is no system that could be implemented that would minimize that problem while still making it easier to find groups?

[Xrayll]

Good choice.

[Flyjedi]

Interesting theory. And it is probably right.

However I think that having many players frustrated because unable to find groups in correct delays will have detrimental effects on the amount of subscription.

Unless Bioware does not care and is aiming exclusively at the solo'ing crowd.

 

I pretty much play most games solo. If I never had to group.. ever.. I wouldn't. It's mostly for personal reasons and a TON of bad experiences with bad and/or immature players. I still like playing MMOs and interacting with people, don't get me wrong. I just don't want to be forced to play with other people in groups or raids to get anything decent done, but that's a whole other topic.

 

With that said, I do need to group to get quests done, and more than likely to get decent gear from instances. So I know I'll be grouping. I'd rather not waste my time spamming LFG and sitting outside an instance waiting for people to join, or even to arrive from the other end of the zone. Queue yourself up, wait for the LFG tool to put a group together and port everyone there. Wow.. that sounds like a real hassle!

 

I can't sit here and say I would quit the game if they don't implement a LFG tool, but I can certainly see myself moving on eventually if I find that getting groups manually is just too much of a pain. That's certainly not some sort of threat, it's just the truth.

[Ethern]

Well, I think I'll just point upthread to the detailed and civil posts I wrote laying out my position. I'm sorry if you're irritated that I won't engage your strawman. I'm also not going to play the game of "You can't use that argument".

 

You can take on my points, refute them or hear me out, but so far you haven't demonstrated that you're willing to carry on a civil discourse.

 

 

 

Are you asserting that because you believe there will be a problem in one year (and have not provided evidence for that assertion), and that the current debate does not cover that issue, that I must not be correct because I don't bring a solution forth for it?

 

Try arguing the point at hand. The issue is not what happens in a year- the issue is whether a LFG tool is needed or beneficial. I assert that it is neither, and have provided my reasoning for that assertion. I reject the notion that because you think it is, and that the lack of one creates even more notional problems, that I must come up with a solution to consequences of your perception of the issue before I can be taken seriously.

Nice try but the current debate as brought in many threads since the early game access is fed by the fact that many players have troubles to form groups NOW. I mention in one year, because , it's not rocket science, but the servers will be more mature than today. It has to be taken in account in the current debate. The solution for both is the LFD.

Your solution is still unknown, after that many posts of yours.

So I'll go ahead and ignore you.

Have fun with your friends.

[Raijinvince]

I already play that way, unless I get lucky and see a group forming at an opportune time. my friends are scattered over 4 different servers for variety of reasons. it just doesn't bother me like it seems to bother you. and yes, I think its selfish to think of short term benefits, disregarding evidence of long term drawbacks, becasue its inconvenient for you to do so.

 

Evidence of long term drawbacks? But you don't even know what kind of LFD tool I'd propose. You don't know if I want inter-realm, cross-realm, vote to kick enabled or not, teleports you to the instance or not, just a global channel, just a search feature (where you can search for anyone anywhere LFG for a specific FP or FPs without actually automatically forming the group.

 

Without knowing what kind of LFD tool I want, how can you say that mine would have long term drawbacks? How can you generalize LFD tools when not every option has even been explored in an MMO?

 

I think...you just hate WoW's LFD tool, which is fair...so do I, but it doesn't have to be that way.

[jettemakaron]

Citation needed. I'd like to know how you arrived at the conclusion that "most" want it. All we can see is those who populate the forums, which are not the majority- whether they represent an accurate cross-section of opinion is another matter (I tend to think they do not).

 

So o honestly belive most people dont wana run flashpoints, or when they do that they have to spam /1 for 30min+?

 

Why on earth would the majority want that?

 

Because spaming /LF1M tank is socializing with their friends or what?

[Thradar]

Give me content.

 

I can figure out how to find people to play with, it's not that hard.

[dembonez]

Communication between group members, actually talking to one another is much better than being forced with douches thrown into an LFG dungeon finder, only having to repeat the same steps over and over because of poor attitudes and poor sportsmanship. It creates more problems than its worth.

 

 

Yeah... everyone I have ran into on a server-only runs on any game has been bunny farts and sunshine. Fact is even if they stick with the channel spamming only method you would have to be SO BAD that people would rather wait than risk it. Rarely ever happens in practice. When a group is desperate and spamming for healer they will take a healer that finally responds. The only time I can think that this is not true is a loot stealer, but this has nothing to do with the LFD tool at all and most games have at least tried to address the issue. People will risk something if it means having to wait another 30 minutes hoping someone answers against avoiding a potentially unpleasant person.

[Jeweledleah]

I don't understand the logic that a tool that would make finding groups easier would mean that group members wouldn't communicate or talk to one another. Are you supposing that there is no system that could be implemented that would minimize that problem while still making it easier to find groups?

 

automated tool win ensure that you don't have to. becasue it will find groups for you again. unless they make unlimited ignore list or something so that automated tool will not be grouping you anymore. at which point people will come back here to complain how the tool is not working.