Bioware says NO LFD TOOL.

[Barracudastr]

Motivation through positive reinforcement is always better.

 

The incentive for people to be a nice person and effective player while in a group is ease of getting groups in the future (through friends and reputation). The LFD removes this by making it always easy to get a group.

 

That is a flawed reason/reward.

 

I am very helpful and nice in game.... ive had to skip 3 heroics in game and cant get groups for the level 20 ones now.

 

I dont think you understand that the barrier isn't how a person behaves but actually getting a group due to game flaws in general.

 

Tell me the odds of putting a group together for athiss at level 20 when theres only 40 people in fleet? Tell me why I should be punished for not being able to put together a group regardless of social standing.

 

What will you tell new players in 6 months that are entering the game for the first time and trying to get groups for old content/leveling content.

 

There is a reason many are already having issues already, main one being no global channel and shards.

 

Just because you have this idea of how a game mechanic should function doesn't make it right nor does it make it practical.

 

There is no evidence that what your suggesting is positive on the community in building a tight nit community.

 

No one is asking for cross server either which throws half of your reasoning out the window.

[Fastor]

WoW tried it by adding extra gold, badges and in some cases (Oculus) loot to encourage people to finish instances. it didn't help any.

 

if you have any other ideas on how to offer incentives and track being nice, while simultaneously allowing automated, random grouping? I'd love to hear them.

I'll admit that I don't have any off hand. But, I have serious objections to using barriers to entry as the primary method to improve quality. Falling back to economics, while the average quality does indeed go down when you remove barriers to entry, the size of the market increases and so the total utility goes up.

 

I'm just saying, there has to be a better way.

[Ethern]

That is a flawed reason/reward.

snip

Well said.

[acheros]

I am so sick of hearing this, WoW never had a good community. I met some of the most terrible people during vanilla. Just awful human beings.

 

and it only went down from there..Dont get me wrong, i've met some AWESOME people on wow. But its like a 50:1 scum bag to cool person ratio.

Edited December 25, 2011 by acheros

[Crogga]

This may be a MMORPG, but this is a combat oriented game, not a social network.

In the name of what the social aspect - though important- should take precedence over the gameplay?

Finding a group and experiencing the group content is what people are looking for - not forcedly to have a whole fulfilling social session.

 

So true. Again nothing is stopping that from happening. You are just hurting casuals, guidless, people that play off hours, etc etc. Guilds have always been the crux of the 'in game' community in wow from what I experienced.

You want more, then you gotta stop playing video games and go outside imo.

[Crogga]

and it only went down from there..Dont get me wrong, i've met some AWESOME people on wow. But its like a 50:1 scum bag to cool person ratio.

 

Hardly:

 

http://users.telenet.be/mmodata/Charts/Subs-1.png

[Ethern]

I'll admit that I don't have any off hand. But, I have serious objections to using barriers to entry as the primary method to improve quality. Falling back to economics, while the average quality does indeed go down when you remove barriers to entry, the size of the market increases and so the total utility goes up.

 

I'm just saying, there has to be a better way.

Agreed. Such barriers force players to have recourse to other means, such as exclusive guild/friend list. The result is that they get contained in their new restricted social circle, making newcomers or outsiders having a harder time. One of the reasons who urged a cross server LFD in WoW, it's because those restrained social circles became too hermetic.

People need to understand that PuGs availability are essential to maintain interactions.

[Jeweledleah]

I'll admit that I don't have any off hand. But, I have serious objections to using barriers to entry as the primary method to improve quality. Falling back to economics, while the average quality does indeed go down when you remove barriers to entry, the size of the market increases and so the total utility goes up.

 

I'm just saying, there has to be a better way.

 

have a suggestion for better way.

 

people who don't want to be social have an option of running a flashpoint or a quest at reduced difficulty. that way they can run it any time they wish. the catch? rewards are much worse, experience, credit gain and item rewards.

 

there you go, people who don't want to make an effort to find a group or for whatever reason cannot find one, despite trying? have an option to see ALL the content. and people who don't mind looking - get better rewards in form of better loot, experience and credits.

 

and for the last time and this is not a reply to a quoted message but for the people in this thread in general.

 

AUTOMATION RUINS COMMUNITY. making it cross server merely makes it even worse.

[acheros]

Also, i've said this before in another LFD thread.

 

You say the LFG tool is for the lazy, i say its used because its convenient. WoW had no community to begin with, the LFD tool changed nothing, only gave trade chat less spam.

 

Consider this, if you will - for those who preach about community.

You'd have a better "community" if everyone took the bus instead of driving. You'd get to know more people who also take the bus from day to day. Do you do that? or do you take your car everywhere? and -why- do you take your car everywhere?

 

Convenience!

 

You'd build a better "community" if you stopped going to the grocery store, and instead started a communal farm to raise cattle/chickens/eggs/what else have you. But do you do that? No, you continue to shop at the grocery store for all your needs out of convenience.

 

Don't preach about a community that wasn't already there.

[acheros]

Hardly:

 

http://users.telenet.be/mmodata/Charts/Subs-1.png

 

You have no idea what i'm talking about, clearly. I didn't mean the NUMBER of people, i meant the QUALITY of people....

 

everyone whos not mentally handicapped knows WoWs user rate continued to go up drastically.

 

But that doesn't mean the players where any better people. It just meant there were more of them. the ratio stayed the same.

[Barracudastr]

have a suggestion for better way.

 

people who don't want to be social have an option of running a flashpoint or a quest at reduced difficulty. that way they can run it any time they wish. the catch? rewards are much worse, experience, credit gain and item rewards.

 

there you go, people who don't want to make an effort to find a group or for whatever reason cannot find one, despite trying? have an option to see ALL the content. and people who don't mind looking - get better rewards in form of better loot, experience and credits.

 

and for the last time and this is not a reply to a quoted message but for the people in this thread in general.

 

AUTOMATION RUINS COMMUNITY. making it cross server merely makes it even worse.

 

How many times do I have to say this...

 

PEOPLE DONT WANT CROSS SERVER. We want a means to create a group fast without spamming and afking somewhere to do so for an hour or more! We want a same server tool.

 

Not sure why you anti LFD keep putting cross server as your basis for your entire argument when that really has nothing to do with the problem lol.

 

We dont want a wow clone so get off it.

[Crogga]

have a suggestion for better way.

 

people who don't want to be social have an option of running a flashpoint or a quest at reduced difficulty. that way they can run it any time they wish. the catch? rewards are much worse, experience, credit gain and item rewards.

 

there you go, people who don't want to make an effort to find a group or for whatever reason cannot find one, despite trying? have an option to see ALL the content. and people who don't mind looking - get better rewards in form of better loot, experience and credits.

 

and for the last time and this is not a reply to a quoted message but for the people in this thread in general.

 

AUTOMATION RUINS COMMUNITY. making it cross server merely makes it even worse.

 

Why are you so intent on this idea of community? It's a video game. The social aspect is fullfilled more by your guild and friends list regardless of a LFD tool or not.

This is an option, not something you're forced into. What if I can only play off hours because of a job change? What if I can only play very casually and have not built up a good friends list or am guildless? OR all of the above? And I'm punished for it?

You act like it's lack of effort- it may not be. I spendt 2 hours last night looking for a group. Now I am just skipping content instead of spending too much time. If that's waht it;s like at level cap? well... gfg.

[Felioats]

I was highly disappointed to hear they won't be implementing a same-server LFG tool, and I hope they reconsider.

 

But in the meantime, isn't it inaccurate to say you can only search on your current planet? I normally search for just "lfg," then look at their comments, and I thought that was everyone server-wide who is set to LFG.

[SGRX]

I can see justification for excluding cross-server LFD groups, since they seemed to provide a certain barrier of anonymity for players in WoW (which encouraged them to act like idiots); I can't see any justification for not having a LFD feature within a player's own server.

 

The concept of positive reinforcement as a counterargument with regard to an same-server LFD tool seems inane to me. You get the same net effect with a same-server LFD group, in that good players will remember one another and possibly form a full or partial core group on their own after meeting through the LFD tool. Bad players and ninjas will similarly be remembered and eventually ostracized.

 

What LFD eliminates is the hassle of social micromanagement, which isn't socialization - it's tediously soliciting for the opportunity to have something to do in an environment which is supposed to be a source of entertainment for me. Removing that barrier to grouping simply allows me to make more productive use of my time while I'm playing - I can focus on developing my character in some way after entering a queue, rather than running around looking for people and potentially getting absolutely nothing done. If you consider the fact that people with limited time might forgo even looking for a group given the tedium involved in doing so, and in so doing potentially both form a habit of doing so (which you could argue causes them to lose interest in the game more quickly), and as a result reducing both their social exposure to, and effectively their ability to group with, people on their own server, it's a fair assumption that forgoing a same-server LFD tool is actually limiting socialization, rather than promoting it.

[Bleedbloo]

Well said.

 

I think your point is that it doesn't matter how good/nice you are, the lack of an LFD tool means that you will never have enough players to form a group, or at least making it prohibitively difficult to the point of skipping the content.

 

I think that is a great point, and one I had not really considered. I still believe that effort should be required to form a group, and that forcing players to be more proactive in their group formation will encourage better group play (for reasons previously stated).

 

 

A better solution would be a bracketed LFG channel based on level. This channel would be server wide and would allow every player in a certain range to communicate for heroic quests and flashpoints. I agree that this deficiency is hurting people's chances to experience the content

 

It should be noted that LFG between zone shards is shared (Tatooine [1] and Tatooine [2] talk in the same general and LFG channels.) this is really a side point and I only included it because someone stated otherwise. I agree that this is not enough.

[Ethern]

Why are you so intent on this idea of community? It's a video game. The social aspect is fullfilled more by your guild and friends list regardless of a LFD tool or not.

This is an option, not something you're forced into. What if I can only play off hours because of a job change? What if I can only play very casually and have not built up a good friends list or am guildless? OR all of the above? And I'm punished for it?

You act like it's lack of effort- it may not be. I spendt 2 hours last night looking for a group. Now I am just skipping content instead of spending too much time. If that's waht it;s like at level cap? well... gfg.

Yeah, those people -arguing about the community cohesion- try to make you think that the primary goal you aimed at while looking for a group is actually socializing, the group content being relegated at a second place.

The truth is that the group content is the primary one, the social, secondary.

 

Not to mention the hypocrisy in that, since for many of them, the community = their restrained guild circle. They should not be affected at all by the implementation of a LFD.

[lmpervious]

Oh no, I will have to type "LFM Athiss" every 3-5 mins while I quest, barely slowing me down!!! Hopefully people don't find that to be too big of a deal. I'm completely fine (and may actually prefer) a LFG interface where you can put your name on a list for a dungeon, and then people would have to talk to you to ask you, but as it stands it really isn't bad.

 

People are just expecting to be spoon fed all the time, and drawing the line is a good thing.

[acheros]

another post in favor of LFD(or atleast flahspoint portals)

 

in SW:TOR all flashpoints are in one location - aboard the fleet. this SEEMS like a good idea. However, it is not. Consider this.

 

You're leveling on, lets call it nar shaada. While there, you get a mission to do a flashpoint. Currently, to do that flashpoint, you have to go to the fleet, spam to get a group, then do it.

 

If the flashpoint was in nar shaada, it would be. Get a mission, spam nar shaada general, then walk to it.

 

With a LFD, when you get the mission to do the flashpoint, you can just wait for queue while doing missions, and it doesn't matter WHERE the flashpoint is.

[lmpervious]

another post in favor of LFD(or atleast flahspoint portals)

 

in SW:TOR all flashpoints are in one location - aboard the fleet. this SEEMS like a good idea. However, it is not. Consider this.

 

You're leveling on, lets call it nar shaada. While there, you get a mission to do a flashpoint. Currently, to do that flashpoint, you have to go to the fleet, spam to get a group, then do it.

 

If the flashpoint was in nar shaada, it would be. Get a mission, spam nar shaada general, then walk to it.

 

With a LFD, when you get the mission to do the flashpoint, you can just wait for queue while doing missions, and it doesn't matter WHERE the flashpoint is.

 

Uhhh... most of my groups formed on other planets, and then when we had a full group we then all traveled back to the instance. I don't understand why you didn't mention that as an option.

[Ethern]

I think your point is that it doesn't matter how good/nice you are, the lack of an LFD tool means that you will never have enough players to form a group, or at least making it prohibitively difficult to the point of skipping the content.

 

I think that is a great point, and one I had not really considered. I still believe that effort should be required to form a group, and that forcing players to be more proactive in their group formation will encourage better group play (for reasons previously stated).

 

 

A better solution would be a bracketed LFG channel based on level. This channel would be server wide and would allow every player in a certain range to communicate for heroic quests and flashpoints. I agree that this deficiency is hurting people's chances to experience the content

 

It should be noted that LFG between zone shards is shared (Tatooine [1] and Tatooine [2] talk in the same general and LFG channels.) this is really a side point and I only included it because someone stated otherwise. I agree that this is not enough.

That's actually a good suggestion. A cross planets and a cross shards is what many are asking. Not a WoW LFD's clone.

Even though personally I would not be opposed to a cross server option, just in case the server wide device is not sufficient for some hours.

[Jeweledleah]

How many times do I have to say this...

 

PEOPLE DONT WANT CROSS SERVER. We want a means to create a group fast without spamming and afking somewhere to do so for an hour or more! We want a same server tool.

 

Not sure why you anti LFD keep putting cross server as your basis for your entire argument when that really has nothing to do with the problem lol.

 

We dont want a wow clone so get off it.

 

and how many times do I have to emphasize before you stop seeing what you want to see and see what I'm saying?

 

AUTOMATION.

 

AUTOMATION. same server automation is STILL a license to misbehave becasue you'll still be able to find another random group since the system doesn't care how naughty you were being. it will just group you with different players.

 

unless ignore list becomes unlimited and even then it will take months before jerks are weeded out and then they can just reroll on a different server. and god forbid they implement server transfers...

[Jirya]

im glad they answered it, i dont care so much, i have an amazing guild to group with, but i dont plan on socializing with my server regardless

[Jeweledleah]

I think your point is that it doesn't matter how good/nice you are, the lack of an LFD tool means that you will never have enough players to form a group, or at least making it prohibitively difficult to the point of skipping the content.

 

I think that is a great point, and one I had not really considered. I still believe that effort should be required to form a group, and that forcing players to be more proactive in their group formation will encourage better group play (for reasons previously stated).

 

 

A better solution would be a bracketed LFG channel based on level. This channel would be server wide and would allow every player in a certain range to communicate for heroic quests and flashpoints. I agree that this deficiency is hurting people's chances to experience the content

 

It should be noted that LFG between zone shards is shared (Tatooine [1] and Tatooine [2] talk in the same general and LFG channels.) this is really a side point and I only included it because someone stated otherwise. I agree that this is not enough.

 

heck, I'm all for it. I'm also for easier travel to group quest locations, like players being able to summon other players for example. I would also love it if emergency fleet shuttle had a shorter cooldown, allowing you to use it to actually get to flashpoints multiple times a day if you so wish.

 

just don't automate the process.

[Crogga]

and how many times do I have to emphasize before you stop seeing what you want to see and see what I'm saying?

 

AUTOMATION.

 

AUTOMATION. same server automation is STILL a license to misbehave becasue you'll still be able to find another random group since the system doesn't care how naughty you were being. it will just group you with different players.

 

unless ignore list becomes unlimited and even then it will take months before jerks are weeded out and then they can just reroll on a different server. and god forbid they implement server transfers...

 

Mis-behave? How? You can still be kicked.

And if you don''t like it DON"T USE IT.

[SGRX]

and how many times do I have to emphasize before you stop seeing what you want to see and see what I'm saying?

 

AUTOMATION.

 

AUTOMATION. same server automation is STILL a license to misbehave becasue you'll still be able to find another random group since the system doesn't care how naughty you were being. it will just group you with different players.

 

unless ignore list becomes unlimited and even then it will take months before jerks are weeded out and then they can just reroll on a different server. and god forbid they implement server transfers...

 

So basically, you're so completely paranoid about the possibility of someone being so egregiously antisocial that the LFD tool becomes nothing but a vehicle for them to abuse the system unpunished, that you feel that it should be withheld from the entire playerbase to preemptively punish that relative minority? Yeah, that sounds like a good plan.