Bioware says NO LFD TOOL.

[Fastor]

I think...you just hate WoW's LFD tool, which is fair...so do I, but it doesn't have to be that way.

Yes, a hundred times yes! The current system doesn't work for a lot of people. That doesn't mean Bioware has to copy/paste WoW's LFD tool. That's a false dichotomy.

[SWGVet]

Shortcut. You claimed it ruined WoW, so wrongly you think it will systematically have the same effect in TOR, without knowing if its implementation will be the same. Weird reasoning. That's just irrational fear. Irrational fear to deny a feature is...stupid.

 

Systematically it will have the same results if those results happened in another mmorpg. If the implementation was somehow reworked and different I wouldn't have a problem with it.

 

 

If it's created exactly or similar to WoWs dungeon finder than I would hold to my opinion and ask not to put it in. If Bioware could change the mold of how WoW did the LFG system then I would give it a go.

[Wolfeisberg]

Communication between group members, actually talking to one another is much better than being forced with douches thrown into an LFG dungeon finder, only having to repeat the same steps over and over because of poor attitudes and poor sportsmanship. It creates more problems than its worth.

 

Wrong, still not a good answer at all. It won't matter if the group was created by the LFG finder or by spamming the same lfg message, cause once the group is put together either way, it is up to themselves to interact with each other when grouped up. When you spam the LFG, you still have no idea if you are getting with people with poor attitudes or sportsman ship till you actually start to do the flash point with them. You are once again bringing up a problem with a cross realm system, not a server side only system.

 

So try again

 

The question again is

 

How does spamming /1 with the same LFG create a community, that a server side only LFG system cannot?

 

I want an answer to this that doesn't bring up WoW Cross Realm LFD and all the problems that come with it being a cross realm LFD, ie loot ninjas and douchebags because of no accountability.

[Fastor]

automated tool win ensure that you don't have to. becasue it will find groups for you again. unless they make unlimited ignore list or something so that automated tool will not be grouping you anymore. at which point people will come back here to complain how the tool is not working.

Then you're arguing against one specific implementation of the tool. Can't there be a middle ground that is better than the current system but doesn't encourage being a jerk?

[Jeweledleah]

Evidence of long term drawbacks? But you don't even know what kind of LFD tool I'd propose. You don't know if I want inter-realm, cross-realm, vote to kick enabled or not, teleports you to the instance or not, just a global channel, just a search feature (where you can search for anyone anywhere LFG for a specific FP or FPs without actually automatically forming the group.

 

Without knowing what kind of LFD tool I want, how can you say that mine would have long term drawbacks? How can you generalize LFD tools when not every option has even been explored in an MMO?

 

I think...you just hate WoW's LFD tool, which is fair...so do I, but it doesn't have to be that way.

 

I do hate it and the most I hate about it is the impersonal automation. the fact that its cross server, only makes it worse.

 

I'm not against better tool. I'm against complete automation.

[jettemakaron]

let me saying again for you then. automatic cross server grouping removed most need for cooperation. things not going smoothly? leave, rejoin the queue, who cares you can just redo the instance, not like you are truly locked out of it. ninja items with impunity becasue you'll be able to find groups anyways, random selection will ensure that. be as nasty as you wish, becasue there's cooldown for kicking people now and they cannot get rid of you anyways. why is there a cooldown? becasue people abused the kick function. no need to make friends, no need to form bonds, just queue up to people that might as well be henchmen. why talk to someone when you will most likely never meet them again? and even on your own server, you can be as horrible as you want ,because who cares how the rest of the server sees you, you don't need them, you have a random tool to find groups for you.

 

when they first introduced LFD in WoW, I was ecstatic. i was so happy. I could run things with my alts, I could level through early instances! and it was amazing... for the first month or so... and then... people got rid of the last vestiges of residual need to be nice... and eventually, I unsubscribed from WoW. feeling nostalgic few months ago and becasue they gave me free 7 days.. I resubbed. and remembered all the reasons why I unsubbed in a first place. and all it took was couple of random dungeons.

 

But now i cant find groups at all, i cant find them, not at all, nada...

[Jeweledleah]

Then you're arguing against one specific implementation of the tool. Can't there be a middle ground that is better than the current system but doesn't encourage being a jerk?

 

yes. I'm sure there can be. but what I'm seeing here is that people who want the tool for the most part want it to make all the effort for them.

[DevonDs]

There are lots of games with LFD tools. Please leave this one the way it is. I have grouped more in this game than I ever have in the past.

[Flyjedi]

Systematically it will have the same results if those results happened in another mmorpg. If the implementation was somehow reworked and different I wouldn't have a problem with it.

 

 

If it's created exactly or similar to WoWs dungeon finder than I would hold to my opinion and ask not to put it in. If Bioware could change the mold of how WoW did the LFG system then I would give it a go.

 

Change it how? There's not a lot of flexibility. The only difference would be server or cross-server. All the excuses for cross-server problems are just BS.. really. There are d-bags everywhere, and just because someone is from your server doesn't mean they are going to play nice because they are afraid of getting a "bad name". Trust me, if they are a d-bag they don't CARE about what people think of them, which is why they are a d-bag to begin with.

 

Please people.. stop with all the really lame excuses about socializing and getting bad players in a LFG tool... the SAME thing happens when you spam LFG looking for people and you don't have to waste hours waiting to get the same results. And.. for the last time.. if you don't like it DON'T use it. You and the 4 other people that don't want to use it can spam LFG and group with each other all you want. Have fun.

[Fastor]

yes. I'm sure there can be. but what I'm seeing here is that people who want the tool for the most part want it to make all the effort for them.

I disagree. Mostly what _I_ am seeing is discontent with the current model. If we can start from the position that it doesn't work for a good number of people and then try to come up with solutions to that problem, we'll be having a much more productive conversation. I think Bioware's decision to not develop any sort of helper tool is misguided. I think they could develop a LFG tool that avoids the problems in WoW's implementation.

[Raijinvince]

automated tool win ensure that you don't have to. becasue it will find groups for you again. unless they make unlimited ignore list or something so that automated tool will not be grouping you anymore. at which point people will come back here to complain how the tool is not working.

 

You could have no vote to kick enabled.

 

You could have a tool that finds a group for you initially, but won't let you add any more members. People would still have to find a member by spamming general if someone left midway through, but it would get the ball rolling for the initial group coagulation.

 

You could have a tool that would let you find a limited number of new members per run. Maybe of 2 people leave you can replace them, but after that you're on your own.

 

Look, I'm not even saying these are good idea they can implement. But open your mind to the idea that there are way more options available besides those ones you hate that have already been done.

 

The idea of some tool that allows people to gather towards the completion of a common goal is not a bad one. It can be implemented poorly, but that doesn't mean it has to be.

 

Personally all I want is the ability to look for a group globally. However that's implemented, it's really my only goal. The ability to look for a group, or throw myself into a queue, or throw my name up in a channel, or throw a LFG tag on my name that can be seen sever wide...not just within the planet/fleet that I'm currently situated. That's all.

Edited December 25, 2011 by Raijinvince

[jettemakaron]

I do hate it and the most I hate about it is the impersonal automation. the fact that its cross server, only makes it worse.

 

I'm not against better tool. I'm against complete automation.

 

Yea, clearly its better to dont do the flashpoints at all like i did. (well did some of them when i did find a group)

[dembonez]

let me saying again for you then. automatic cross server grouping removed most need for cooperation. things not going smoothly? leave, rejoin the queue, who cares you can just redo the instance, not like you are truly locked out of it. ninja items with impunity becasue you'll be able to find groups anyways, random selection will ensure that. be as nasty as you wish, becasue there's cooldown for kicking people now and they cannot get rid of you anyways. why is there a cooldown? becasue people abused the kick function. no need to make friends, no need to form bonds, just queue up to people that might as well be henchmen. why talk to someone when you will most likely never meet them again? and even on your own server, you can be as horrible as you want ,because who cares how the rest of the server sees you, you don't need them, you have a random tool to find groups for you.

 

when they first introduced LFD in WoW, I was ecstatic. i was so happy. I could run things with my alts, I could level through early instances! and it was amazing... for the first month or so... and then... people got rid of the last vestiges of residual need to be nice... and eventually, I unsubscribed from WoW. feeling nostalgic few months ago and becasue they gave me free 7 days.. I resubbed. and remembered all the reasons why I unsubbed in a first place. and all it took was couple of random dungeons.

 

I actually understand what you are saying but it is not a black and white world. Instance running outside of a guild is not really a social function and it rarely was in wow. I made a few friends when you had to spam chat but most of the time it was just finally cobbling together enough people to run the instance you have been trying to run for a day. On top of that you then had to hope that 8% chance to drop item did, in fact, drop. If not, back to spamming chat. Blizzard has taken big steps to stop loot thieves but they still need to figure out how to restrict spec rolling. Besides that I have had more "good times" than I have had "bad times" with the LFD tool. Just because something is not perfect does not mean it should not be implemented. If we followed that logic we would not have anything the modern world enjoys. You have to start somewhere.

 

I will say again though that it doe destroy any semblance of PvP competition on a server though. That is a different topic however.

[SWGVet]

Wrong, still not a good answer at all. It won't matter if the group was created by the LFG finder or by spamming the same lfg message, cause once the group is put together either way, it is up to themselves to interact with each other when grouped up. When you spam the LFG, you still have no idea if you are getting with people with poor attitudes or sportsman ship till you actually start to do the flash point with them. You are once again bringing up a problem with a cross realm system, not a server side only system.

 

So try again

 

The question again is

 

How does spamming /1 with the same LFG create a community, that a server side only LFG system cannot?

 

I want an answer to this that doesn't bring up WoW Cross Realm LFD and all the problems that come with it being a cross realm LFD, ie loot ninjas and douchebags because of no accountability.

 

 

Your opinion is that its wrong, my opinion is the opposite. Doesn't mean I'm wrong just because you disagree. I'm not going to get into a big rile up, I've played too many mmorpg's to know the outcomes. My opinion still stands whether you disagree.

Edited December 25, 2011 by SWGVet

[ironix]

I am also pleased. Despite the fact that I am in favour of mods, macros, combat logs and whatnot, I am not particularly excited about a LFD tool.

[Ethern]

I pretty much play most games solo. If I never had to group.. ever.. I wouldn't. It's mostly for personal reasons and a TON of bad experiences with bad and/or immature players. I still like playing MMOs and interacting with people, don't get me wrong. I just don't want to be forced to play with other people in groups or raids to get anything decent done, but that's a whole other topic.

 

With that said, I do need to group to get quests done, and more than likely to get decent gear from instances. So I know I'll be grouping. I'd rather not waste my time spamming LFG and sitting outside an instance waiting for people to join, or even to arrive from the other end of the zone. Queue yourself up, wait for the LFG tool to put a group together and port everyone there. Wow.. that sounds like a real hassle!

 

I can't sit here and say I would quit the game if they don't implement a LFG tool, but I can certainly see myself moving on eventually if I find that getting groups manually is just too much of a pain. That's certainly not some sort of threat, it's just the truth.

I understand and agree with you. The effects you are describing are already felt my some players, but instantly lessened, because the game is still new, and there is still a ton of things to do before getting annoyed on this sole not finding group topic. " That's why there is a controversy and the reason why many feel the LFD is not needed.

People who focus on group content exclusively tend to feel those effects much more and see another picture. Hence the dozen of threads since launch.

[Raijinvince]

If it's created exactly or similar to WoWs dungeon finder than I would hold to my opinion and ask not to put it in. If Bioware could change the mold of how WoW did the LFG system then I would give it a go.

 

 

I honestly think if we took a poll of all people who want the LFD system and said.

 

Do you want the exact system as WoW has implemented for LFD...the majority would be staggeringly against it.

 

Most of us in this thread are saying we DO NOT want cross-realm, but that's just a start. I personally don't want vote to kick. I think there are benefits to it if someone is being a jerk for no other reason than to troll the group, but I think the negatives far outweigh the positives. There are also other changes I want, but the point is:

 

I honestly believe most people who want a LFD system DO NOT want a copy of the one in WoW. But, just because I had a ham sandwich I didn't like, doesn't mean I'm going to swear off all sandwiches forever regardless of their contents. I have faith in you, turkey!

Edited December 25, 2011 by Raijinvince

[Ethern]

Systematically it will have the same results if those results happened in another mmorpg. If the implementation was somehow reworked and different I wouldn't have a problem with it.

 

 

If it's created exactly or similar to WoWs dungeon finder than I would hold to my opinion and ask not to put it in. If Bioware could change the mold of how WoW did the LFG system then I would give it a go.

It's a better way to phrase your opinion to be honest. I can agree on the principle.

[EIGHTT]

Why couldn't they have system where when you need to find a group for a certain mission that requires it to have it where you click a button to open up a new tab for a chat window specifically for that mission. This way you can clear up general chat as well as keep that social interaction of finding people.

[Ethern]

yes. I'm sure there can be. but what I'm seeing here is that people who want the tool for the most part want it to make all the effort for them.

To be clear, what effort are you talkign about exactly? copy pasta LFG in the channels?

[WLpride]

good, I'm glad. many more important things to do before this.

[Wolfeisberg]

Your opinion is that its wrong, my opinion is the opposite. Doesn't mean I'm wrong just because you disagree. I'm not going to get into a big rile up, I've played too many mmorpg's to know the outcomes. My opinion still stands whether you disagree.

 

Talking about facts here, and you still have not answered it at all. Having an LFD server side only, and the spamming of the LFG messages have nothing to do with weather you'll get douchebags or not, cause you can get them either way.

 

The fact is, the only difference between an server side only LFG system and spamming the chat channel with the same message, is the frequency of actually getting groups together, in which a server side LFD system would create them faster. That is it, after that, everything else is exactly the same, 100% the same. If you get douchebags, you'll put them on your ignore list and move on.

 

Anyways, I imagine that nobody will ever be able to answer my question without bringing up problems that are only associated with a cross realm system, in which what you stated is a problem of a cross realm system.

 

So I'll ask again for other to answer it

 

How does spamming /1 with the same LFG create a community, that a server side only LFG system cannot?

 

I want an answer to this that doesn't bring up WoW Cross Realm LFD and all the problems that come with it being a cross realm LFD, ie loot ninjas and douchebags because of no accountability.

[Jeweledleah]

I actually understand what you are saying but it is not a black and white world. Instance running outside of a guild is not really a social function and it rarely was in wow. I made a few friends when you had to spam chat but most of the time it was just finally cobbling together enough people to run the instance you have been trying to run for a day. On top of that you then had to hope that 8% chance to drop item did, in fact, drop. If not, back to spamming chat. Blizzard has taken big steps to stop loot thieves but they still need to figure out how to restrict spec rolling. Besides that I have had more "good times" than I have had "bad times" with the LFD tool. Just because something is not perfect does not mean it should not be implemented. If we followed that logic we would not have anything the modern world enjoys. You have to start somewhere.

 

I will say again though that it doe destroy any semblance of PvP competition on a server though. That is a different topic however.

 

running dungeons outside of guild prior to LFD is how I found majority of the guilds I eventually joined (exception being one raiding guild that I applied to and even then, it was in part due to someone I already knew on the inside and found while grouping outside of the guild) its also how I made friends that I still chat with, even though we no longer play WoW.

 

not everyone starts out with a guild.

 

and again, I'm not saying that current system is perfect. it worked for me so far, but that's becasue I'm flexible and don't feel like I MUST finish every group quest on a planet. I ended up finishing most of them anyways, which is pretty amazing.

 

but, it could use improvement. global channel. better communication. ability to get to the quest/flashpoint entry faster (for example - once the group is formed, you could have an option to teleport to it, or whoever gets to the entrance first, can summon the rest from the inside) there are a variety of ways current tool can be improved. but people keep asking for WoW like LFD. and that I will NEVER support. and I sincerely hope that whatever improvements they implement, that it will never comes to that. because then I'll just go back to playing games I don't have to pay monthly fee for. many of them - bioware games, amusingly enough.

[Fastor]

Why couldn't they have system where when you need to find a group for a certain mission that requires it to have it where you click a button to open up a new tab for a chat window specifically for that mission. This way you can clear up general chat as well as keep that social interaction of finding people.

See? Now that is a perfectly reasonable suggestion.

[Jeweledleah]

To be clear, what effort are you talking about exactly? copy pasta LFG in the channels?

 

asking people, whispering people, looking if anyone is also looking in a channel and reaching out to them instead of hoping that they ask you.