What's the point of being melee in this game with the current state of PvP

[PloGreen]

PvE or not, it still doesn't change the fact that a powertech IS NOT MELEE! The point of the 10m range is to take as less dmg as possible from the real melee classes, you know, the ones with 4m of range on their core abilities and not only rocket punch, or Retractable Blade which has to be specced into. To get something out of the way first...if the attack doesn't require you to be at 4meters, it's not melee, so when you flame burst somebody from 9m away don't think you just did a melee attack.

 

You mentioned it's a hybrid but I could also say that maras are ranged hybrids they have Vicious Throw, Deadly Throw, Force Scream, Force Choke and Dual Saber throw and those are >=10m in terms of range Oh Mah Gawd Warriors just became ranged!!! So please, a class having 1 baseline melee ability that can potentially unlock a second one while the ability they end up using the most is 10m is not a melee hybrid, they become a melee hybrid for one GCD every 9 seconds, and that isn't even necessary if they're playing Pyro.

 

Anyways screw it, I'm done arguing, it won't change anything in the end since everybody will have their own opinion of what makes a class ranged or not, and we've swayed from the main topic of this thread wayyyy too much.

 

 

 

Rofl, just owned more than 3/4 of the sorc population LOL

 

I will let someone else explain it to you. Oh my you actually think vanguards are a ranged class.

[Eyesmindassassin]

OP is right and PT aren't melee. In rated arenas, which hardly anyone does, melee are good and only Madness is a good ranged class. No one does rated arenas. Who cares. In reg war zones, ranged are much stronger than melee, especially when they are stacked (mainly Madness as they are ridiculously OP'd). Have not logged into my Jugg in a long time and I was only playing him for a long time before that. Last patch ruined it for me and it's not fun to play at all anymore. All it takes is for you to get one match where the other team has all ranged that focus you every respawn and time to uninstall.

 

I've always said PT's are melee and not ranged until I played a very good one unlike the bad ones in this thread who say they are melee. A good one will make TRUE melee classes like Jugg feel like an absolute joke by 6-10 kiting you and dead zoning you 5 trillion times worse than any Rogue could a Warrior back in WoW. They are a hybrid if anything. Some bad PT kept bringing up interrupt is 4 meters. What are you interrupting from a melee class? Operative casting Orbital Strike in your face? lol, stop it. Interrupt being 4 meters DOES NOT MATTER. You would only interrupt a ranged class and being in melee range with a ranged class makes sense since you are trying to stay on them as much as possible. What makes PT NOT a melee class is when they meet a TRUE melee class and proceed to render 90% of their abilities useless by staying at 6-10 meters and doing 90% of their dmg. THAT is the difference between a TRUE melee class and a PT. That is why PT are NOT melee.

 

Now get better and learn to use your 10 meter range to your advantage instead of making everyone aware that you're a bad on the SWTOR forums.

[Zoom_VI]

Dear lord, PT have to deal with everthing a melee has to deal with. That is why PT are melee, not because of some tally of ability range.

 

PTs are as much a ranged class as operatives and assassins are.

 

A powertech that does not play at melee range will always be outdone by a powertech that plays properly.

 

Also for the record this discussion is only marginally related to pyro anyway since there is no why anyone sane could argue that AP and Shieldtech are somehow "ranged"

Edited July 14, 2014 by Zoom_VI

[PloGreen]

OP is right and PT aren't melee. In rated arenas, which hardly anyone does, melee are good and only Madness is a good ranged class. No one does rated arenas. Who cares. In reg war zones, ranged are much stronger than melee, especially when they are stacked (mainly Madness as they are ridiculously OP'd). Have not logged into my Jugg in a long time and I was only playing him for a long time before that. Last patch ruined it for me and it's not fun to play at all anymore. All it takes is for you to get one match where the other team has all ranged that focus you every respawn and time to uninstall.

 

I've always said PT's are melee and not ranged until I played a very good one unlike the bad ones in this thread who say they are melee. A good one will make TRUE melee classes like Jugg feel like an absolute joke by 6-10 kiting you and dead zoning you 5 trillion times worse than any Rogue could a Warrior back in WoW. They are a hybrid if anything. Some bad PT kept bringing up interrupt is 4 meters. What are you interrupting from a melee class? Operative casting Orbital Strike in your face? lol, stop it. Interrupt being 4 meters DOES NOT MATTER. You would only interrupt a ranged class and being in melee range with a ranged class makes sense since you are trying to stay on them as much as possible. What makes PT NOT a melee class is when they meet a TRUE melee class and proceed to render 90% of their abilities useless by staying at 6-10 meters and doing 90% of their dmg. THAT is the difference between a TRUE melee class and a PT. That is why PT are NOT melee.

 

Now get better and learn to use your 10 meter range to your advantage instead of making everyone aware that you're a bad on the SWTOR forums.

 

Well that would depend on if you consider melee range to be 4m or 10m. I certainly don't consider 10m to be ranged class, but it seems some of you do.

 

Ps. I don't play pt that much, I main a sorc pt is too brain dead for me. Can't honestly say I have had any problems fighting other melee on a pt though, /shrug.

Edited July 14, 2014 by PloGreen

[ToMyMa]

Well that would depend on if you consider melee range to be 4m or 10m. I certainly don't consider 10m to be ranged class, but it seems some of you do.

 

Ps. I don't play pt that much, I main a sorc pt is too brain dead for me. Can't honestly say I have had any problems fighting other melee on a pt though, /shrug.

 

Heh, I main a commando with a powertech alt.

 

I've gotta day you get a lot more bang for your buck as a powertech compared to commando, Jesus... although it might just be because ToFN (as a server) is severely tipping in the favour of Imps

 

Commandos can be good (due to their supreme ranged burst), but they need a relatively good team to be able to get a rotation off (or two) before they die. Which Reps lack on ToFN.

 

Powertech nowadays is "Pull, stun, crit buff (continously fire Should Cannon), apply dot, rail shot, rocket punch/flame burst (depending on range), rail shot, thermal detonator (can be used earlier in rotation), [filler attacks]". Then do rotation again (though without SC, crit buff and potentially stun). In case of being focused use dcds and/or medpac and maybe a grenades.

 

On commando, though... it includes a whole lot of kiting with a topping of kiting with some whipped kiting

[PloGreen]

Heh, I main a commando with a powertech alt.

 

I've gotta day you get a lot more bang for your buck as a powertech compared to commando, Jesus... although it might just be because ToFN (as a server) is severely tipping in the favour of Imps

 

Commandos can be good (due to their supreme ranged burst), but they need a relatively good team to be able to get a rotation off (or two) before they die. Which Reps lack on ToFN.

 

Powertech nowadays is "Pull, stun, crit buff (continously fire Should Cannon), apply dot, rail shot, rocket punch/flame burst (depending on range), rail shot, thermal detonator (can be used earlier in rotation), [filler attacks]". Then do rotation again (though without SC, crit buff and potentially stun). In case of being focused use dcds and/or medpac and maybe a grenades.

 

On commando, though... it includes a whole lot of kiting with a topping of kiting with some whipped kiting

 

Ye I have both at 55. I like assault on the commando, it can setup some big burst when the stars align but in ranked (solo) I have very little time to hard cast, I love it in regs tho. I like the healing too, it's interesting mechanic wise. Pt, well I just find it a little dull, well at least with assault I do. I had one at 50 before 2.0 and it was very simple to just spam a few buttons to get results (hence why it got nerfed). I have played it to 55, geared it with augments (sharing gear with commando where I could). I find commando more interesting, even though it's harder to play in ranked. I don't really play around with gunnery or tactics on both classes though.

 

PT not really my thing but you know everyone enjoys different things, I prefer slippery mobile classes like sages/sorc, I like sniper, jug, sent, shadow. Need to roll an op/ scoundrel yet but I know roughly what to look for when I face them.

Edited July 14, 2014 by PloGreen

[Zoom_VI]

Nobody ever plays melee anymore

 

Edited July 14, 2014 by Zoom_VI

[Raansu]

There I fixed it for you.

 

Too bad the distance you "choose" to stand from your target doesn't determine whether or not a class is ranged or we'd all have to agree that the sorc is a melee class as the majority of them self root and face tank.

 

[Vodrin]

Well that would depend on if you consider melee range to be 4m or 10m. I certainly don't consider 10m to be ranged class, but it seems some of you do.

 

Ps. I don't play pt that much, I main a sorc pt is too brain dead for me. Can't honestly say I have had any problems fighting other melee on a pt though, /shrug.

 

The reason there is a debate on what a PT is stems from most games having true melee and true long ranged classes, nothing else. A PT is neither of these, so if you want to call it a medium ranged class, or a melee/ranged hybrid. Either is fine. It has to be closer than a merc or sorc to really hurt you, but not so close as a mara or jugg. That pretty well sums it up.

[Raansu]

The reason there is a debate on what a PT is stems from most games having true melee and true long ranged classes, nothing else. A PT is neither of these, so if you want to call it a medium ranged class, or a melee/ranged hybrid. Either is fine. It has to be closer than a merc or sorc to really hurt you, but not so close as a mara or jugg. That pretty well sums it up.

 

Except both jugg and marauder have a similar assortment of 10 - 30m attacks. So that logic goes out the window.

[ToMyMa]

Except both jugg and marauder have a similar assortment of 10 - 30m attacks. So that logic goes out the window.

 

Yup, and talk about AP powertech...

[Draqsko]

Except both jugg and marauder have a similar assortment of 10 - 30m attacks. So that logic goes out the window.

 

Similar?

 

As a Vigilance Guardian, I want my bread and butter rotation to be 10m like vanguards.. You know.. since we're both melee classes.. it's only fair BW.

[Zoom_VI]

melee or ranged is defined by how the class behaves, not by tallying ability ranges.

 

melee classes are defined as classes where you actively try to close the gap to opponents and fight in their faces. Ranged classes are defined as classes that actively try to put distance between themselves and their opponents.

 

Powertechs behave like melee classes, they don't try to put distance between them and their target, they try to close it. Yes we can hit you from far away, but we don't want to be far away, we want to close with our target. We behave just as every other melee in the game does.

[Raansu]

Similar?

 

As a Vigilance Guardian, I want my bread and butter rotation to be 10m like vanguards.. You know.. since we're both melee classes.. it's only fair BW.

 

You missed the point, but kudos for trying.

[Draqsko]

You missed the point, but kudos for trying.

 

I think you missed my point, but whatever, carry on.

[Tevzz]

Well that would depend on if you consider melee range to be 4m or 10m. I certainly don't consider 10m to be ranged class, but it seems some of you do.

 

^I think that is the main source of the issue, people have different perceptions of what melee range is, for me it's 4-5m, anything greater is ranged, be it 10, 30 or 35m, it doesn't matter.

 

But myself playing an AP when I go against warriors the only time I'm in melee range is to apply RB and to do Rocket Punch, the rest of the time I always pay attention to Flame Burst and Retractable blade's icons. If Flame Burst becomes greyed out, I'm in trouble because the warrior can leap at me, if RB becomes available though I'm in trouble again because that means I've entered 4m range and he can hit me with whatever he wants. And if I spec pyro this is even easier to do, because then I just watch Quell/Rocket Punch and since I can apply a slow with flame burst I can keep my distance much more easily. I'm pretty sure I'll get "Oh ma gawd you no use rocket punch on CD as Pyro!1!1!1! BADDIE!1!1!1" Answers but I'd rather lose a bit f DPS than eat a vengeance jug's ravage in the face.

[Zoom_VI]

^I think that is the main source of the issue, people have different perceptions of what melee range is, for me it's 4-5m, anything greater is ranged, be it 10, 30 or 35m, it doesn't matter.

 

But myself playing an AP when I go against warriors the only time I'm in melee range is to apply RB and to do Rocket Punch, the rest of the time I always pay attention to Flame Burst and Retractable blade's icons. If Flame Burst becomes greyed out, I'm in trouble because the warrior can leap at me, if RB becomes available though I'm in trouble again because that means I've entered 4m range and he can hit me with whatever he wants. And if I spec pyro this is even easier to do, because then I just watch Quell/Rocket Punch and since I can apply a slow with flame burst I can keep my distance much more easily. I'm pretty sure I'll get "Oh ma gawd you no use rocket punch on CD as Pyro!1!1!1! BADDIE!1!1!1" Answers but I'd rather lose a bit f DPS than eat a vengeance jug's ravage in the face.

 

I want to know how bad a warrior has to be to not be able to close a 4-6m gap. Like its a non-issue.

[CellPerfect]

Haven't been reading all of this so sorry if someone mentioned what I'm about to say before.

 

PT is a mid ranged class I would say. As can be seen by most of the abilities having a 10 meter range. 4 meters is melee, 10 meters is mid ranged, and 30 meters is ranged (at least in my book). Mid ranged classes are a bit of a mix between pure melee and ranged classes. To further drive the point home...

melee classes are defined as classes where you actively try to close the gap to opponents and fight in their faces.

Ranged classes are defined as classes that actively try to put distance between themselves and their opponents.

 

PT does both of these things (at least the good ones that I have seen). When fighting melee classes, they (mid ranged classes, specifically PTs in this case) kite around and try to keep distance and come in to melee ranged when they need to use an ability that requires them to be there. Against a ranged class, they are constantly trying to be in melee range so they can get off any melee abilities that they need to when the time comes and interrupt the ranged player's casts.

 

So to say that a PT is melee or ranged doesn't seem to fit in every situation. Classifying them as mid ranged seems more accurate. Obviously everyone can and will have their own opinions about this, but this is how I would categorize them.

[Zoom_VI]

 

PT does both of these things (at least the good ones that I have seen). When fighting melee classes, they (mid ranged classes, specifically PTs in this case) kite around and try to keep distance and come in to melee ranged when they need to use an ability that requires them to be there. Against a ranged class, they are constantly trying to be in melee range so they can get off any melee abilities that they need to when the time comes and interrupt the ranged player's casts.

 

Well see, PT's only really kite when dealing with deception assassins and the warrior classes. Beyond the niches the standard behavior of a Pyro is to close the distance. The whole staying at 10m thing is more of a counter strategy employed against specific classes rather than something that defines the class.

 

I emphasize pyro since it bears stressing that both of the other PT specs are extreme reliant on melee range.

[Thaladan]

for warzone, be a melee is now a cross to bear....insane chain stun, bump, root..it's unplayable and frustrating. so easy to be 20 meters behind and do same damage.

 

and why it's like that? because of the arenas of course ! because in a small map, in 4vs4, and with no other strategy than kill the ennemy, melee are good.

 

bioware just try to make all class equal in arena, they don't care of warzone anymore because the ranked is arena only...so in warzone melee will be worst and worst to play, be sure of this.

 

stupid arenas..

Edited July 15, 2014 by Thaladan

[Raansu]

for warzone, be a melee is now a cross to bear....insane chain stun, bump, root..it's unplayable and frustrating. so easy to be 20 meters behind and do same damage.

 

and why it's like that? because of the arenas of course ! because in a small map, in 4vs4, and with no other strategy than kill the ennemy, melee are good.

 

bioware just try to make all class equal in arena, they don't care of warzone anymore because the ranked is arena only...so in warzone melee will be worst and worst to play, be sure of this.

 

stupid arenas..

 

I still dominate in warzones...not sure what your issue is.

[Tevzz]

I want to know how bad a warrior has to be to not be able to close a 4-6m gap. Like its a non-issue.

 

You'd be surprised how many can't...I just adore when Vigi Guardians jump me on my PT, I just Lolhydraulics away, without forgetting to throw rocket punch and RB in there before ****'ing.

[Sangrar]

You'd be surprised how many can't...I just adore when Vigi Guardians jump me on my PT, I just Lolhydraulics away, without forgetting to throw rocket punch and RB in there before ****'ing.

 

I usually in that situation on my jugg when I see them doing that just back away and let them get out of 10 meter range to leap them or use force push and then leap, then use my slowing ability and all my cc's to keep them close.

Edited July 15, 2014 by Sangrar

[Zoom_VI]

You'd be surprised how many can't...I just adore when Vigi Guardians jump me on my PT, I just Lolhydraulics away, without forgetting to throw rocket punch and RB in there before ****'ing.

 

I leap, you use hydrolics, I choke you through the hydraulics, ravage you, shove you, leap again and ravage you again, then I pop one of my crapton of cooldowns just because I can and then finish you off.

 

Seriously Veng is probably one of the best specs for tackling PTs.

Edited July 15, 2014 by Zoom_VI

[alexsamma]

for warzone, be a melee is now a cross to bear....insane chain stun, bump, root..it's unplayable and frustrating. so easy to be 20 meters behind and do same damage.

 

and why it's like that? because of the arenas of course ! because in a small map, in 4vs4, and with no other strategy than kill the ennemy, melee are good.

 

bioware just try to make all class equal in arena, they don't care of warzone anymore because the ranked is arena only...so in warzone melee will be worst and worst to play, be sure of this.

 

stupid arenas..

 

Vigi/Veng, all sin/shadow specs, and any half decent pt can still dominate in warzones.

 

Melee actually have to make tactical decisions now, unlike in the past when they could simply lol tunnel ranged dps.

 

If you are not having success as a melee character then you need to re-evaluate your play style.

 

I will admit that dot specs, across the board, are over-performing (but this affects all classes, not just melee).